just a question?if u were born a chinese? wat would be ur position on this? then what judgement would be passed on the billions of atheists chinese/asians?

Joshthefirst: Lol.


Which kind of tests would you carry out on God? A spiritual being?


And yes. You'd still have problems. You'd still doubt.

Many true prophets have come and gone also. They've worked signs and preached repentance yet you don't believe.

They're even around now. Yet you choose not to listen and you choose to doubt their message inspite of the miracles happening right next door.

Jesus also came. He came as our kinsman. But he was not just a man. He was God. Yes. God has actually come to confirm his word before. He came once. Be broke into our realm and was born among us. People saw him do God-things and bore witness. But men like you still doubted.

Others believed though. And it was written down so you'd believe also. Men still come around and preach, and God still confirms his word. But men like you still doubt and throw tantrums of rebellion, thinking they're smart.

God came the first time to save. The next time he'll come in all his glory to judge.

uzoexcel: just a question?if u were born a chinese? wat would be ur position on this? then what judgement would be passed on the billions of atheists chinese/asians?

to my answer you'll ask another irrelevant question to serve as a yardstick for your rebellion.

It doesn't matter where you're born. If you hear the gospel and reject it, you stand condemned.

The gospel is being preached in China too. Some hear this message and accept it. Others continue in rebellion.

Your place of birth is irrelevant when the message reaches your ears. Your reaction to the message is paramount. And your answer is up to you, not your geographical location.

The gospel is being preached. Those who accept it and repent from their wrong doing are saved, those who reject it because of the love of wrongdoing will pay for their wrongdoing in full. The wages of sin is death.

Cut-throat thread.

u reallly are patient

Joshthefirst: to my answer you'll ask another irrelevant question to serve as a yardstick for your rebellion.

It doesn't matter where you're born. If you hear the gospel and reject it, you stand condemned.

The gospel is being preached in China too. Some hear this message and accept it. Others continue in rebellion.

Your place of birth is irrelevant when the message reaches your ears. Your reaction to the message is paramount. And your answer is up to you, not your geographical location.

The gospel is being preached. Those who accept it and repent from their wrong doing are saved, those who reject it because of the love of wrongdoing will pay for their wrongdoing in full. The wages of sin is death.

frosbel: The message of salvation is loud and clear within scripture as a whole.

I will still repeat myself, you want to eat your cake and have it.

How are you sure that these people weren't mistaken in their message of SALVATION since you agree that they record error?

Really!! So we should ignore obvious errors and contradictions even though most scholars agree that these matters do pose certain problems?

The only problem what seems to be discrepancy could pose it's on the part of people like you who couldn't reconcile God's word accurately rather depending on what Atheist says to judge God's word.

Also, since you like to criticise the Quran, why can't the bible be open to the same methods of analysis?

In what way did I criticise Qur'an?
Of course Bible has been opened to scrutinizing that's why things like these can come up.

1. Inspiration is one thing, communicating the message through imperfect beings is another.

Do you believe God can inspire error?
Was God found it difficult to communicate accurately with imperfect being?

2. We do not have the original autographs today, what we have are copies of copies and hence unwitting but passable errors have been made.

Are you attacking the original writers & their manuscripts or the copy from copy manuscript we have today?

[b]3.[/b]It is the overall message that we get from the bible that matters and God's spirit knows how to communicate this to the true seekers.

Your answer to the above question will provide answer to this.

[b]4.[/b]There are some other errors in the bible which are either blatant falsifications or attempts to make certain doctrines fit into scripture.

let me get you clearly, did you bring out all these in errancies to let us know that God inspired people who actually recorded error or your point is what people have done to accurate word of God that make it contains discrepancies?

If I know your stand then I'll know how to continue with you.

But you can't tell me that original writers were inspired to WRITE errors and we CAN also trust their writing about SALVATION.

Let me read. Brb

Joshthefirst: to my answer you'll ask another irrelevant question to serve as a yardstick for your rebellion.

It doesn't matter where you're born. If you hear the gospel and reject it, you stand condemned.

The gospel is being preached in China too. Some hear this message and accept it. Others continue in rebellion.

Your place of birth is irrelevant when the message reaches your ears. Your reaction to the message is paramount. And your answer is up to you, not your geographical location.

The gospel is being preached. Those who accept it and repent from their wrong doing are saved, those who reject it because of the love of wrongdoing will pay for their wrongdoing in full. The wages of sin is death.

The many lies you keep bandying so that you can sleep comfortably at night. . .Why should a muslims who has been indoctrinated with islam as the right religion and christianity as the wrong religion accept christianity? What about a hindus that has also been indoctrinated with the religion as the only right religion since childhood? Why should he accpet your own lies?. . .. . .If you were born into a muslism home Allah and Mohammed his last messenger is what you will be preaching and defending here, many are doing it on this thread, by the way which wrong doing do you keep talking about. . Where is the evidence to show that christians are morally better than non christians?. . .Where is it?. . .You as a person are NOT more morally upright than many atheist, muslims, hindus, taoist etc. . You are just another person simple. . .This ridiculous lie you guys keep telling yourselves needs to stop. . .

ByfireByfire:
Ridiculous nonsense arising from personal perception & emotion being imposed as fact. Where did you get this figure from.Lies again.

I've been a believer for nearly 2 decades and whenever my love for God & Christianity had grown cold due to ferocious tribulations , the fear of eternal hell alone has consistently kept me from sin & kept me following till the love for God was fully kindled again by His interventions, visitations & tender mercies.I have been to numerous churches with counless millions of membership and can say the same experience stands true for the majority of Christians worldwide. Just like in a marriage relationship where the oil of love has dried up, the marriage bond keeps the couples yet living together till the love is revived again. This trend often repeats all through the marriage lifespan.

I don't expect you to agree with me as you never agree with anybody but with your self generated errors... but stop presenting your brazen flawed opinions as facts.

my dear that is not what God wants,he doesn't want us to serve him because we are scared of hell fire,he wants us to serve him because we love him. As the catholic church teaches in it's cathesm, God made us to know him,love him n serve him. I wish pple would stop preaching this hell fire thing,i dont believe in it and really it chases pple from christianity. I am certain that evil will be punished but i do not believe that my loving and just God will sentence pple to eternal fire just for a few decades on earth,that is wickedness and injustice, so pls stop propagating this hell fire thing.

uzoexcel:
in a court of law, if something was counted as 969 and i say its about 1000, is it not better than someone else saying its actually 971.

So you mean Allah is also acting as human being?

Wasn't this event suppose to be happened in Allah's presence?

Why would Allah using human methodology when He suppose to know what was actually counted?

In a court of law an All-knowing God shouldn't use a guess game but given actual number since He knows the actual number counted even before it was counted.

quietly following

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

The Bible may be inconsistent with eidectic recordings of various events and all that. But the message is unwavering.

Remember the bible was written by a lot of people and inconsistency is the proof.

Even similar scientific research that are carried out under very controlled measures have inconsistencies. Nothing is perfect.

Emusan:

I will still repeat myself, you want to eat your cake and have it.

How are you sure that these people weren't mistaken in their message of SALVATION since you agree that they record error?

The message of salvation is consistent throughout scripture.

The only problem what seems to be discrepancy could pose it's on the part of people like you who couldn't reconcile God's word accurately rather depending on what Atheist says to judge God's word.

Presumption is not rightly dividing the word of God, how do you know I am referring to atheists when making these statements ? This reveals a serious bias on your part.

For your info I am doing my research with the help of the bible, bible tools and other articles , but for you to adamantly and dogmatically refuse to accept these errors and contradictions in the face of evidence means you are not being honest and will continue to mislead those who follow your version of the gospel.

Do you believe God can inspire error?
Was God found it difficult to communicate accurately with imperfect being?

You are not listening ! God inspires people, people record his sayings, copies are made, some errors are made, and then other mischievous people interject their own doctrines into the bible and so on and so forth. Even Christian scholars know this is the case.

I think you need to start listening and stop getting emotional about this.

Are you attacking the original writers & their manuscripts or the copy from copy manuscript we have today?

Attacking is a strong made up word by you. I am questioning the various errors.

By the way you dodged the other comment made on Mark 1;2 where you jumped into conclusions instead of reading carefully.

mazaje:

The many lies you keep bandying so that you can sleep comfortably at night. . .Why should a muslims who has been indoctrinated with islam as the right religion and christianity as the wrong religion accept christianity? What about a hindus that has also been indoctrinated with the religion as the only right religion since childhood? Why should he accpet your own lies?. . .. . .If you were born into a muslism home Allah and Mohammed his last messenger is what you will be preaching and defending here, many are doing it on this thread, by the way which wrong doing do you keep talking about. . Where is the evidence to show that christians are morally better than non christians?. . .Where is it?. . .You as a person are NOT more morally upright than many atheist, muslims, hindus, taoist etc. . You are just another person simple. . .This ridiculous lie you guys keep telling yourselves needs to stop. . .

truth is truth. When I preach truth to someone it is his duty to accept it and trust in its reward. Whether he has been told lies from Childhood or not.

This is not about being morally upright. It is primarily about being morally accountable. It is also not about religion. You have done wrong in your life. We all have. We're all guilty. The good news is that someone has paid for our crimes and we get saved by trusting him. Refusal and rebellion would only make you pay the full price for your sins.

Rilamaka:

The Bible may be inconsistent with eidectic recordings of various events and all that. But the message is unwavering.

Remember the bible was written by a lot of people and inconsistency is the proof.

Even similar scientific research that are carried out under very controlled measures have inconsistencies. Nothing is perfect.

I admire you integrity and honesty unlike many emotional Christians here.

Just to add though, there are also intentional irregularities and some forgeries made during the translation to other languages, but these are in the minority. They impact the Tithe, Trinity and eternal torment false doctrines.

frosbel:

I admire you integrity and honesty unlike many emotional Christians here.

Just to add though, there are also intentional irregularities and some forgeries made during the translation to other languages, but these are in the minority. They impact the Tithe, Trinity and eternal torment false doctrines.

I agree with you on the issue of "intentional irregularities and forgeries made during the translation to other languages" because it is a classic case of the human trait. Every human being is selfish by character in the sense that everyone wants what's best for himself first, before considering other people as a matter of "reflex" and it does take a great deal of self control and timeless conditioning of the mind (plus severe behavioural adjustments) before anyone can put any other person/thing before him/her self.

The point I'm trying to make here is that definitely at some point somebody must have twisted the bible right from the point of recording to the translation itself to rhyme with their personal or communal beliefs at that point in time. Why this issue is over flogged is what I do not understand. The Bible was written by humans and humans are bound to err.

On other hand I strongly disagree with you on the issue regarding tithe, trinity and eternal torment doctrines, being false for selfish reasons. I believe that Christianity itself is a state of mind and we should focus less one who's preaching the right or wrong doctrine but try to keep what Christ himself has pointed out as the greatest commandment of all - LOVE.

If we all practise that as humans, the issue of error in bible recording and translation, false doctrines will be irrelevant.

yemaldo:
I don't understand this,pls clearify it
"And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, ‘Who are you?’ He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, ‘I am not the Christ.’ And they asked him, ‘What then? Are you Elijah?’ He said, ‘I am not.’ ‘Are you the Prophet?’ And he answered, ‘No.’ So they said to him, ‘Who are you? We need to give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?’ He said, ‘I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, "Make straight the way of the Lord," as the prophet Isaiah said.’ (Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.) They asked him, ‘Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?’" John 1:19-25
Who's the prophet that is supposed to come after Jesus

To answer your question,you should first,understand that John the Baptist was a man just like you and i.He had a limited knowledge of where he was from,who he was and where he was going,albeit,he exactly knew his purpose here on earth(John 1:23).
Now,to the question on the prophet that is supposed to come after Jesus,it was answered by The Master Himself in Matthew 11:14,15. Thanks Sir.

Joshthefirst: truth is truth. When I preach truth to someone it is his duty to accept it and trust in its reward. Whether he has been told lies from Childhood or not.

The ONLY reason you are here telling me about the truth of your religion is because you were born into it. . .If you were born into a muslim or hindus home it will be a different trut you will be preaching. . .That is the fact. . .

This is not about being morally upright. It is primarily about being morally accountable. It is also not about religion. You have done wrong in your life. We all have. We're all guilty. The good news is that someone has paid for our crimes and we get saved by trusting him. Refusal and rebellion would only make you pay the full price for your sins.

You are saying this because you have been indoctrinated with the christian theology and as such it becomes the basis in which you view the world around you. . .If you were born into a Jewish family you would not be saying these things. . .You will actually laugh and mock people that say these things. . . .You are wired to believe that those that refuse to accept your religion are rebelling, but you forget that you also have refused to accept the religions of others.. Do you lose any sleep if a muslim tells you that you will spend eternity in hell for not accepting the islamic story and theology?. . .The answer is no, that is exactly the way me and others that do not accept your own man made religion and theology feel when you keep spewing your religious jargon at us. . .It only makes sense to you because you were born in the bubble and indoctrinated with it to see the world within it. . .Your life revolves around it because you were wired to and made to accept and see things that way. . .Others are also wired and made to accept other stories and other theology. . .There is no truth in your religion, just as there is no truth in the religion of others that you discard. . .They are all equally valid or invalid. . .They are all man made constructs to help them better appreciate life and this mysterious world we find ourselves in. . .

some people over look the fact of "scribal errors" and even think of the Biblical times as one of the ones we have today. One really need to know how fragile this manuscripts really are.

One thing I do believe is that, at the time the human writers (under God breathed inspiration) penned d Bible, there were no errors in it, but as time passed on, due to age of the manuscripts and scribal errors, these so called "errors" crept in, of with majority if not all of the discrepancies have been duly explained and dealt with!

iamjane:

Let me read. Brb

I must say he looks funny *laffs* but he is ignorant of the text he is bashing! The Bible never said Cain dwell with people in the Land of Nod but "Cain settled in the land of Nod". The Bible never mentioned that prior to Cain's settling, people lived there. again, the guy foolishly ignores or is ignorant of the meaning of the word "Nod". Nod means "Wandering". So the land of Nod means "Land of Wandering". So much for bashing!!! Next!

mazaje: The ONLY reason you are here telling me about the truth of your religion is because you were born into it. . .If you were born into a muslim or hindus home it will be a different trut you will be preaching. . .That is the fact. . .



You are saying this because you have been indoctrinated with the christian theology and as such it becomes the basis in which you view the world around you. . .If you were born into a Jewish family you would not be saying these things. . .You will actually laugh and mock people that say these things. . . .You are wired to believe that those that refuse to accept your religion are rebelling, but you forget that you also have refused to accept the religions of others.. Do you lose any sleep if a muslim tells you that you will spend eternity in hell for not accepting the islamic story and theology?. . .The answer is no, that is exactly the way me and others that do not accept your own man made religion and theology feel when you keep spewing your religious jargon at us. . .It only makes sense to you because you were born in the bubble and indoctrinated with it to see the world within it. . .Your life revolves around it because you were wired to and made to accept and see things that way. . .Others are also wired and made to accept other stories and other theology. . .There is no truth in your religion, just as there is no truth in the religion of others that you discard. . .They are all equally valid or invalid. . .They are all man made constructs to help them better appreciate life and this mysterious world we find ourselves in. . .

all this objection is based on ur assumption that "Christianity" is about indoctrination and that the person u addressed earlier has been brainwashed! Where u d one montoring his life? Why don't u ask him why he is passionately defending his faith instead of saying "indoctrination" Well I do not wonder wen u say its "man made" religion, but I do wonder if that means there is a "non-man made religion somewea". Well I guess to u, God doesn't exist and if He did, He couldn't have communicated at all. so keep imagining that if its not physical den its nt real. Perhaps wen 1 babalawo nack u juju, u go sabi better!

dejilg:
all this objection is based on ur assumption that "Christianity" is about indoctrination and that the person u addressed earlier has been brainwashed! Where u d one montoring his life? Why don't u ask him why he is passionately defending his faith instead of saying "indoctrination" Well I do not wonder wen u say its "man made" religion, but I do wonder if that means there is a "non-man made religion somewea". Well I guess to u, God doesn't exist and if He did, He couldn't have communicated at all. so keep imagining that if its not physical den its nt real. Perhaps wen 1 babalawo nack u juju, u go sabi better!

Every religion is about indoctrination that is why they start teaching you about it at an early age. . .they don;t just teach you about the religion they also condemn other religions and tell you that all other religions are false and evil. . .they will tell you that only your religion is the true religion and the true way. . .The truth that is found in his religion is the same truth that is also found in other religions. . .All religions are equally valid or invalid. . .Who be babalawo?. . .Another nonsense. . .

mazaje:

Shut up you myth believing pig. . .

I never knew you as someone that abuses people. Is it that I didn't know or that you ve changed? What I know of you is that you just make your point and keep moving till when you see another reason to make another point.

mazaje:

Every religion is about indoctrination that is why they start teaching you about it at an early age. . .they don;t just teach you about the religion they also condemn other religions and tell you that all other religions are false and evil. . .they will tell you that only your religion is the true religion and the true way. . .The truth that is found in his religion is the same truth that is also found in other religions. . .All religions are equally valid or invalid. . .Who be babalawo?. . .Another nonsense. . .

see how glaring u keep committing d same error over and over...I hv been a church goer at a very young age and was never indoctrinated nor even know why muslims go to mosque or that they view God differently until wen I decided to study both Christianity and Islam myself and even teach my "Parents" what these faiths are about. so again stop committing these stupid errors! Christianity is not based on blind faith! Try doing a gud study before u bash it. Well, I dnt pray u know whom/what a babalawo is, but wen u do, u'd recant ur statements for sure.

dejilg: see how glaring u keep committing d same error over and over...I hv been a church goer at a very young age and was never indoctrinated nor even know why muslims go to mosque or that they view God differently until wen I decided to study both Christianity and Islam myself and even teach my "Parents" what these faiths are about. so again stop committing these stupid errors! Christianity is not based on blind faith! Try doing a gud study before u bash it. Well, I dnt pray u know whom/what a babalawo is, but wen u do, u'd recant ur statements for sure.

You are obviously not saying the truth. . .Going to church all these while has throught you that salvation can ONLY be found through Jesus. . .It thought you that Jesus is the only way to god without which you will end up in hell or the other side. . .Going to church all these while never thought you that Mohammed is the last messenger of allah and that those who agree to his teachings will have salavation and be saved the way you do. . .Christianity is BASED on blind faith. . .Now tell me how do you which one is true. . .Christians believe that Jesus died and ascended into heaven from somewhere in Israel, muslims also believe that Mohammed ascended into paradise on the back of a horse from the Masjid Alaqsar. . .Which of these is true and which is not?. . .Your answer depends on which religion you have been indoctrinated with but the reality is that blind faith is what makes you believe these things. . .If not blind faith explain to me how a virgin can give birth or how a man can live inside a fish for 3 days. . .

alexleo:

I never knew you as someone that abuses people. Is it that I didn't know or that you ve changed? What I know of you is that you just make your point and keep moving till when you see another reason to make another point.

He was the first person to insult me and I give back in very equal measure. . .No apologies. . .

This thing is ridiculously simple, and yet it's been said over a million times, to little avail. The religious mind is amazing!

mazaje: The ONLY reason you are here telling me about the truth of your religion is because you were born into it. . .If you were born into a muslim or hindus home it will be a different trut you will be preaching. . .That is the fact. . .



You are saying this because you have been indoctrinated with the christian theology and as such it becomes the basis in which you view the world around you. . .If you were born into a Jewish family you would not be saying these things. . .You will actually laugh and mock people that say these things. . . .You are wired to believe that those that refuse to accept your religion are rebelling, but you forget that you also have refused to accept the religions of others.. Do you lose any sleep if a muslim tells you that you will spend eternity in hell for not accepting the islamic story and theology?. . .The answer is no, that is exactly the way me and others that do not accept your own man made religion and theology feel when you keep spewing your religious jargon at us. . .It only makes sense to you because you were born in the bubble and indoctrinated with it to see the world within it. . .Your life revolves around it because you were wired to and made to accept and see things that way. . .Others are also wired and made to accept other stories and other theology. . .There is no truth in your religion, just as there is no truth in the religion of others that you discard. . .They are all equally valid or invalid. . .They are all man made constructs to help them better appreciate life and this mysterious world we find ourselves in. . .

mazaje: The ONLY reason you are here telling me about the truth of your religion is because you were born into it. . .If you were born into a muslim or hindus home it will be a different trut you will be preaching. . .That is the fact. . .

nonsense. I was not born into any religion, my faith is the result of my response to God personally. That is fact. What sort of dog headed dogmatism is this?

mazaje:

You are obviously not saying the truth. . .Going to church all these while has throught you that salvation can ONLY be found through Jesus. . .It thought you that Jesus is the only way to god without which you will end up in hell or the other side. . .Going to church all these while never thought you that Mohammed is the last messenger of allah and that those who agree to his teachings will have salavation and be saved the way you do. . .Christianity is BASED on blind faith. . .Now tell me how do you which one is true. . .Christians believe that Jesus died and ascended into heaven from somewhere in Israel, muslims also believe that Mohammed ascended into paradise on the back of a horse from the Masjid Alaqsar. . .Which of these is true and which is not?. . .Your answer depends on which religion you have been indoctrinated with but the reality is that blind faith is what makes you believe these things. . .If not blind faith explain to me how a virgin can give birth or how a man can live inside a fish for 3 days. . .

I do not know whether I shld say u reason or not. Does going to schl makes u undastnd all d subject u were being taught or are u being indoctrinated as such So not teaching me abt Muhammed means they condemned muhammed and said I shld view muslims as goin to hell? How does not telling u abt me means am condemning me? See how illogical u sound? Again u said Christianity is blind faith, well am nt gonna contest wit u cos u just dnt wanna know what it is about! Well like I said, to u everytin has to be before ur eyes, but wen babalawo nack u juju, u go begin know abt invisible realms too! I actually don't expect u to reason well, cos part of reasoning well means to evaluate the situation before u attack.

Joshthefirst: nonsense. I was not born into any religion, my faith is the result of my response to God personally. That is fact. What sort of dog headed dogmatism is this?

If you were not born into any religion then why did you end up as a christian?. . .Are your parents not christians?. . .Where you not taken to sunday school?. . .Why do you deny that allah is god when close to 2 billion people accept him as god?. . .What about Brahama?. .About 1 billion Hindus accept him as the supreme god. . .All these people also responded personally to these gods I have mentioned so why is your own case different?. . .

Joshthefirst: yes. He has no religious affiliation. I didn't want to start an argument with him.

The term "christian God" is an invention of the atheists here in nairaland. We call him Almighty God, Jehova, yaweh etc. So you don't need to worry your head about it. Frosbel is a frustrated man. He has met frustrations in carrying out his false teachings. The reply he gave is different from what you mean.

mazaje:

He was the first person to insult me and I give back in very equal measure. . .No apologies. . .

. Yeah I understand how bad one feels when insulted. May be you can ignore him and go back to your usual style.