LegalWolf:
LOL! This is how you draw non-textual interpretation to a very simple verse. And mind you: all these explanations you are given me over a very simple verse, would you have done the same if the case were reverse? Would you have accepted my explanation ? Anyways what you claimed is not true for various reasons I will give below:



Firstly, like I have said, the word se-bath is translated in many bible translations as rest. And as I have rightly pointed out to you, resting connotes ceasing from something in order to regain strength. You only want to regain strength when you lost it. Let me paraphrase one of my pretty christian acquaintance: this points to one thing - 80% of the time, people regain strength only when they have lost it. ONLY when they are tired!

Secondly, if God did not 'rest' but only ceased working on the 7th day, [ he could have used the word stop/stay/ceased working or any of its variants NOT rest . In the same book of Genesis, the word 'stop' was used in Genesis 19:17 (as translated by many authors). What about Genesis 26:15, was stopped not used? So why give a clear text the meaning it is not intended?

Thirdly, alleged that there is nothing insinuating tiredness from the context. That is NOT true. yhwh RESTED FROM all his work. And which work are we talking about - the creation in the preceding six days. If the did context did not indicate tiredness, why did the bible not say stop/stay/cease etc. from his work instead of rest? ALL your explanation is just to twist the obvious!

Fourthly, your explanation of derivative is completely irrelevant. We are not concerned about the derivative BUT the actual word itself!

Finally, and I asked again, would you answer question regarding a potential thief which you have not responded. Did you not see it?

Cc:
TenQ

TenQ:

Please can you ask LegalWolf this question he's been dodging


When Mohammed lost the Battle of Uhud with his set of front teeth, was Allah with him or not?

Is it a difficult question?

elated177:



I have few questions to ask you.


Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that the Creator rested because he was tired or exhausted, is it a minor thing to create any of the things he created?

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that he who created man by his own power was exhausted after that, is it a small thing to create a human being? Has such been replicated by any power, whether human or supernatural entity?

You are a Muslim, right? Do you believe that the God spoken of in that portion of the Scripture is the same one that you worship?

The Creator does not get tired or weak. The weakness of the Creator, if at all it exists, is stronger than the highest strength of all humans and other supernatural powers/forces combined.

Consider this:
What an anointed servant of YHVH Almighty can do spiritually and get tired is enough to cause 10,000,000 ordinary humans put together to faint if they just attempt it.

HisSplendor:


You're not getting it friend.

God doesn't have to rest. His strength does not diminish. The word 'rest' was used instead of ', cease' because:

1. God was setting an example for man to follow.

2. God wanted to set the day apart as a Sabbath day for His worship, therefore, He gave a practical demonstration of what He wanted man to use that day for. He later gave instructions that no work was to be done on that day.

3. God was laying the foundation of the salvation which Christ would bring. Once we are in Christ, we cease from our personal work of righteousness and enter into God's rest which produces the righteousness of Christ in us. No one can see God by his own filthy righteousness.

4. God wasn't tired. If the work had demanded more days, He would have kept working. He ceased because He was done. Not because He was tired.

5. The REST was a mark He deliberately put on the 7th day to engrave a memorable concept on a people He was going to make His own.

6. Today, when we think about the 7th day, we see it as a day of rest. That's exactly what God wants to achieve- a psychological kind of associative ordinance.

Regarding your other questions, we'll talk about that once we're done with this.

LegalWolf:


Where in genesis did you get this from?

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

HisSplendor:


TenQ, this is rib cracking. Hahahaha.

Legalwolf, I'm hearing this for the first time. Please clarify. I'm shaking with laughter as I type. I can just imagine how Mohammed would look like with all his front teeth gone while Allah was consoling him for his loss. Well, that's just my own imagination.

Tell us what happened.

HisSplendor:


You see, a canal man can't understand the Bible. Every single verse carries a spiritual message.

For instance, regarding the judges 1:19 issue, the spiritual message is this:

God can do all things but without faith you can't achieve anything with God. A faithless believer is a weak believer. Meanwhile, anyone who has faith, no matter who he is, he will do exploits. A believer is limited by his faith.

You're a canal man who reads God's word for arguments. You can't understand Truth.

elated177:



Your response is good. The Creator finished his work of creation and rested. He did not stop because he was tired, he only stopped because he had finished. So, he was not exhausted. Since he finished his work of creation in six days, he rested from it on the seventh day, according to Scriptures. For the fact that he didn't continue the work of creation after the rest shows that he didn't stop because he was tired or exhausted.

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that the Creator rested because he was tired or exhausted, is it a minor thing to create any of the things he created?

Let us say, hypothetically, of course, that he who created man by his own power was exhausted after that, is a small thing to create a human being? Has such been replicated by any power, whether human or supernatural entity?

The Creator does not get tired or weak. The weakness of the Creator, if at all it exists, is stronger than the highest strength of all humans and other supernatural powers/forces combined.

Consider this:
What an anointed servant of YHVH Almighty can do spiritually and get tired is enough to cause 10,000,000 ordinary humans to faint if they just attempt it.

LegalWolf:
Hi Elated177,

I think the issue here stems from a different approach to religion, faith, understanding of divine being etc. Take for example, what you asked me to consider, i.e., the underlined (which do you prefer - Yhwh, Jehovah or Yhvh. I noticed you spelt it Yhvh?). I do NOT agree to that in any material respect.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no scriptural reference in my faith to back that up. In fact, what I know (and I stand to be corrected) is that we are all equal (whether anointed or not - of course, subject to God's discretion), no nation is superior to the other (and that includes the children of Israel, Arabs, Fulani, Yoruba, Kalabari etc) amongst others. That is my conception of faith. To the extent that there may be room for divergence of opinion in other other things, but as I understand it, this is what I think complies with reason!


(underlined mine)

Now your questions raise a lot of logical problems that I would want you to consider.

Granted, the creation of man and the entire universe is no mean feat that we have never seen before. So also is the explosion of human population to over 7 billion people (and Christians to over 2 billion people) as we speak today.

You will agree with me that these statistical figures above are factual and have a higher probability of being true. Then the issue is: if we hypothetically accept the view that after God created the heaven and earth and before there was man or even rain, he got tired. Hypothetically, what gives us the comfort that the same God would be able to say (for example) answer the prayers of 2 billion people not to talk of 7 billion people? Why did I say this: Just like the preceding premise (of something never done before), we have never in the history of the Universe have we had such explosion in human population and we cannot be so certain that our prayers/supplications would not wear him out.

Okay let us take our assumption a nudge further: If we accept the view that this same God became tired after working for 6 days and rested on the 7th, hypothetically, we cannot say for certain what other WORK he is doing AT PRESENT and whether he is EXHAUSTED AND RESTING AFTER SUCH WORK OR NOT

Again, I can keep building on this premise of an exhausted God to construct as many bizzare examples and each will be logically sound. And even our understanding of the creator never getting tired or weak would be a ruse, don't you think?

On the question of 'Do you believe that the God spoken of in that portion of the Scripture is the same one that you worship?' This is an interesting topic that will divert our attention. Not just that, it will distract from the post about genesis or on the thread in particular. However, the core point I will just draw your attention to is that there exists some convincing literature which suggests that Yhwh may have been interchanged for the jewish name of God at some point in Israel's history. (In fact, the name Israel indicates he who perseveres with God not Yhwh). There is even a whole lot of academic commentary on Genesis 32: 8 - 9.

Let me give you a similitude. I was watching Professor Wole Soyinka on Youtube the other day saying that when the missionaries came to Yorubaland, they deliberately (I will say mischievously) converted a God of the Yoruba pantheon (Esu) into Satan. These are not my words byt Prof Soyinka in case you dispute it. In fact, in Yorubaland today, many people call Satan "Esu". But Esu is completely different from Satan. If, hypothetically, X from Bahia (brazil) worships Esu, it does not follow that he worships Satan and vice versa. The fact that the picture that comes to mind when Esu is uttered in Yoruba language is Satan does not mean they are the same thing.

Again, I do not intend to go into this in details as it would change the trajectory of our conversation substantially. I think you should have gotten my drift from my explanation by now in relation to your question.

You can let me know if you need further clarification or what not. Cheers and enjoy your evening as it comes.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ
Hissplendor

LegalWolf:


LOL!

1. First off, we have not finished our discussion on genesis, please provide explicit reference in the same book of genesis for your claims.

2. On judges 1:19: I am a canal man. I do not know what that means. But what I do know is that you are an hypocrite. Do you read the Quran for argument or to seek understanding? That has been the premise of all my arguments with the potential Thief called TenQ. I asked you a question on the time of Caleb. You did not cite references to when Othniel was a Judge, nor Ehud, nor Shamgar (even though it is just one or two verses) but went straight to the time of Deborah, the prophet, in Chapter 4! In essence, [highlight] YOU WANTED TO SEND DELUSIONS TO ME [/b] instead of acknowledging an obvious deficiency.

When logic fails you, you resort to 'spiritual' understanding rather than critical thinking. This potential thief called TenQ had been talking of logic and I expect you to at worst conform to it. But if it is spirituality that you want to dwell on instead of using your head to think, enjoy yourself.

And that reminds me: please provide an answer to all my questions. If not: it points to one thing - you do not have an answer. And paraphrasing one hypocrite that I know, 80% of people avoid questions they don't know because they do not have an answer.

cc:
Potential Thief: TenQ

TenQ:

It is just sufficient for LegalWolf to state his opinion about this question and the argument will be over. This is why he fears me so much.

When Mohammed lost the Battle of Uhud with his set of front teeth, was Allah with him or not?


He would do everything EXCEPT answering this question!

HisSplendor:


Lol.

Legalwolf, where are you?

HisSplendor:


Lol.

Legalwolf, where are you?

LegalWolf:


LOL!

1. First off, we have not finished our discussion on genesis, please provide explicit reference in the same book of genesis for your claims.

2. On judges 1:19: I am a canal man. I do not know what that means. But what I do know is that you are an hypocrite. Do you read the Quran for argument or to seek understanding? That has been the premise of all my arguments with the potential Thief called TenQ. I asked you a question on the time of Caleb. You did not cite references to when Othniel was a Judge, nor Ehud, nor Shamgar (even though it is just one or two verses) but went straight to the time of Deborah, the prophet, in Chapter 4! In essence, [highlight] YOU WANTED TO SEND DELUSIONS TO ME [/b] instead of acknowledging an obvious deficiency.

When logic fails you, you resort to 'spiritual' understanding rather than critical thinking. This potential thief called TenQ had been talking of logic and I expect you to at worst conform to it. But if it is spirituality that you want to dwell on instead of using your head to think, enjoy yourself.

And that reminds me: please provide an answer to all my questions. If not: it points to one thing - you do not have an answer. And paraphrasing one hypocrite that I know, 80% of people avoid questions they don't know because they do not have an answer.

cc:
Potential Thief: TenQ

HisSplendor:


I already finished that off with you.

Is the God in the time of Joshua different from the One referenced in the days of Deborah? Are we talking about two different Gods that you are now shouting about the time and not the person?

TenQ:

This is the crux of ALL his rantings: this is why he would never answer the question. He is banking on the fact that those he is dealing with do not know much of Islam this, he takes on the cloak of an Atheist.

Please ask him again:

When Mohammed lost the Battle of Uhud with his set of front teeth, was Allah with him or not?

This is a proof that all his writings are meaningless RAMBLINGS.

LegalWolf:


That is why I am confused too. The God of the time of Caleb was with Judah. In fact, HE WAS WITH THEM WHEN THEY DROVE THE HILL PEOPLE AWAY. IS THAT NOT CORRECT? HOW THE PEOPLE OF THE PLAIN DEFEATED THEM DESPITE HIM BEING WITH THEM IS WHAT IS WHAT I FAILED TO UNDERSTAND .

You quote the battles during the period of Prophet Deborah (which was apparently after the time of Caleb) to justify the strength of your god during the time of Calab. That is factually, logically and commonsensically wrong. . Why was yhwh unable to help the people of Judah despite being with them defeat the plain people?

And to the potential thief, it is not my fault that my hands are tied from responding to you. When I allowed an intermediary pass your questions, you still went ahead to forge a statement, put it in inverted comma, and attributed it to me. So you will keep ranting and stay ignored (with no intermediary access this time nor even answering any question purportedly stemming from you). Fool me once, blame on me, do you think I will let you send delusions to me again?

cc: potential thief TenQ
Potential Thief

LegalWolf:


Of course, I am here. I will respond to your two of your quotes that are relevant. I have question which you have refused to answer: I alleged that this potential thief called TenQ fraudulently fabricated a statement in inverted comma, and ascribed it to me. Did you see my allegation? Yes or no

Cc: Potential Thief TenQ

LegalWolf:


Of course, I am here. I will respond to your two of your quotes that are relevant. I have question which you have refused to answer: I alleged that this potential thief called TenQ fraudulently fabricated a statement in inverted comma, and ascribed it to me. Did you see my allegation? Yes or no

Cc: Potential Thief TenQ

HisSplendor:


I have given you both logical and Spiritual explanations of that verse. Why harp on the spiritual explanations alone?

Secondly, I don't read the Quran for arguments. I don't even enjoy reading it because the storylines are mostly disjointed and uncoordinated. It isn't an interesting read to spend one's time on. I doff my hat for those who spend their time on it.

Moreso, the Bible is a Spiritual Book. The words in there are spirits and life. So, it's futile if you read the Bible without deriving the spiritual import of the portion you're reading. It's a waste of time.

On the other hand, the Quran is absolutely literal. All you need to do to understand the Quran is to read the context. I may be wrong, you can disprove me.

HisSplendor:


It's noted. We'll get to that when we finish the current business.

LegalWolf:


LOL! Disprove you? How would I? Why should I?

So who told you I enjoy reading the Bible? I have told this potential thief that I loathe to cite it. Like I really loathe to cite it because it appears I am giving credence to nonsense. ALL I see is stories of wars, genocide, deceit, lazy ass deity, etc. Where should I even start?

Now let me burst your burble: When I asked you about yhwh sending delusions to people, Did you read the context or not ? When I asked about the book of Judges, didn't you go ahead and started proving contextual verses?

Finally, you can go ahead and read the Quran literally and I will even encourage you to. But to tell me to read the Bible 'spiritually' is something akin to reading the Guru Granth Sahib (or other works of Nanak) or Vedas spiritually. If you were in my shoes, would you read both works spiritually?

cc: Potential thief TenQ

HisSplendor:


There's a reason why the religion is shrouded in so much secrecy. They have so many smelly skeletons in their cupboard.

TenQ:

Exactly, the same issue Christians have explained to him and he stubbornly refused to see reason, it's just a simple turn around. His yardstick of judgment used against himself

When Mohammed lost the Battle of Uhud and ALSO his set of front teeth, was Allah with him or not?

He won't answer because ALL his arguments backfires over him.

Please ask him DIRECTLY (at least you too want to know the answer)

HisSplendor:


I've already given you a kindergarten lesson on this. So, you'll do well to refer back to it. I'm not doing any unnecessary back and forth on a matter that was already laid to rest.

By the way, what happened in the battle of Uhud. Did Mohammed really lost all his front teeth? What was Allah doing that time?

HisSplendor:


You see, a canal man can't understand the Bible. Every single verse carries a spiritual message.

For instance, regarding the judges 1:19 issue, the spiritual message is this:

God can do all things but without faith you can't achieve anything with God. A faithless believer is a weak believer. Meanwhile, anyone who has faith, no matter who he is, he will do exploits. A believer is limited by his faith.

You're a canal man who reads God's word for arguments. You can't understand Truth.

HisSplendor:


All these are not needed. He didn't in any way agree that God got tired. The position He made was a deductive assumption. A case of 'even if God got tired, is the work done not worth it?' Writing a long epistle on this 'If' is unnecessary.

HisSplendor:


Believe me, I sincerely want to know. I'll ask him again:

Legalwolf, kindly tell us what happened at the battle of Uhud. What was Allah doing when Mohammed lost the battle along with his set of front teeth?

LegalWolf:
LOL!



Is this your kindergaten response or something else?



LOL! Or is it somewhere else? Please let me know if it is because this is laughable logic. Hissplendor yhwh was with Judah for crying out loud! Nothing in Chapter 1 VERSES 1 - 20 suggests that yhwh was not with Judah. He was with them and even helped them to win some wars Judges 1:17 - 18. The preceding part of 1:19 clearly stated that he was with with them to defeat the people of the Hill. He was still with them when they could not drive out the people of the plain because they had Iron Chariots!! This things are so clear

You are now citing Judges 4 when they fell into disbelieve AFTER the preceding event, and after othniel, Ehud and Shamgar has been raised to derive useless spiritual message from the above.

It would appear to me that yhwh cannot be logically defended. It is spiritual messages you will be deriving and not defending him on sound logical grounds. I think with you, I will rest my case too (since my faith invites us to think a lot not to believe rubbish).

You can enjoy the rest of your day and may yhwh be with you (exactly the same way he was with the people of Judah in Judes 1:19 )

And to the potential thief, may yhwh be with you too like the above and keep ranting.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

elated177:


Hilarious!

LegalWolf:
LOL!



Is this your kindergaten response or something else?



LOL! Or is it somewhere else? Please let me know if it is because this is laughable logic. Hissplendor yhwh was with Judah for crying out loud! Nothing in Chapter 1 VERSES 1 - 20 suggests that yhwh was not with Judah. He was with them and even helped them to win some wars Judges 1:17 - 18. The preceding part of 1:19 clearly stated that he was with with them to defeat the people of the Hill. He was still with them when they could not drive out the people of the plain because they had Iron Chariots!! This things are so clear

You are now citing Judges 4 when they fell into disbelieve AFTER the preceding event, and after othniel, Ehud and Shamgar has been raised to derive useless spiritual message from the above.

It would appear to me that yhwh cannot be logically defended. It is spiritual messages you will be deriving and not defending him on sound logical grounds. I think with you, I will rest my case too (since my faith invites us to think a lot not to believe rubbish).

You can enjoy the rest of your day and may yhwh be with you (exactly the same way he was with the people of Judah in Judes 1:19 )

And to the potential thief, may yhwh be with you too like the above and keep ranting.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

HisSplendor:


I never told you to read the Bible spiritually because you actually can't.