mbaemeka:

That's why I asked you another question to help you understand my point. I said does God grow in wisdom? The obvious answer is NO because GOD IS WISDOM. But the bible says Jesus grew in wisdom. There are many other points capable of filling 2 books that show Jesus was functioning as a man and that was the issue that led the discourse this far.

mbaemeka:

1. Adam's flesh is the same flesh all men have and that is the same flesh Jesus had while on earth.

mbaemeka: So Jesus was not a sinner but he HAD the SAME FLESH that sinners had.

shdemidemi:
My friend, In the books of Matthew, Mark and Luke we have what we call the Synoptic Gospels, and they deal primarily with His humanity side of everything. In other words, Matthew depicts Him as King Who would one day rule on David's throne as a human King. He came up through the genealogy of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and down that royal family of David.
In Mark He's depicted as the Servant, and everything that He does shows His willingness to be a Servant, and again from His human side.
Then Luke depicts Him as the Son of Man
Then John comes along and depicts Him as the Son of God in His Deity. You will find that a lot of the things that are covered in the Synoptic Gospels are not mentioned in John.
Now, none of the synoptic gospel books mentioned a word of his flesh as sinful. Do you know why? Because it wasn't.

mbaemeka:

1. Adam's flesh is the same flesh all men have and that is the same flesh Jesus had while on earth.

2. I have seen that you don't know who a man is with your repeated references to the flesh. A man is a SPIRIT BEING who has a soul (realm of the mind) and who LIVES in a BODY or FLESH.

So you if one man has Ebola and Another one is Ebola free they have the same FLESH. That's why I told you that every other man born into this world by virtue of a man and a woman would have a SINFUL SPIRIT because of the fall. Jesus on the other hand came with a RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT because he was fathered by God but his flesh was the same with other men because he was mothered by a mortal.

So Jesus was not a sinner but he HAD the SAME FLESH that sinners had.

As per your lies about the "precious and unblemished lamb" exchange with me I don't have the time to fish out what led to my rebuttal. You wanted to claim that since Jesus was referred to as the precious and unblemished lamb then it means his body was different from other men and I said that is a lie. That precious and unblemished lamb as used there was in reference to his BLOOD because if the writer was referring to Jesus' body and 'comparing' it with the lamb as used in the OT (that wasn't allowed to have any defects before it was slain) then Jesus body won't have been good enough seeing that his was already dented before he was slain.

Jesus' body as the perfect sacrifice was achieved by HIS NEVER COMMITTING SIN and not because he had any different flesh because he never had any different flesh.

shdemidemi:

Before Adam fell, did he have a corruptible flesh that could decay?

The body of Jesus could not decay, even when put in the grave. Is that the same kind of flesh you and I have?




Among many definitions that the flesh can have, it is also known as the seat of sin in man or the unregenerate state of man. Could you possibly say these elements can be associated with Jesus?

trustman:

You are not only stubborn, you are also arrogant and cunning. You are being mischievous and you end up placing that same label on others. 

If you claimed I made a statement then show it unless you are trying to pin on me what I did not say either to divert attention away from the real issues or put a label on me. 
I showed you yours didn't I?

Even a simple illustration now appears difficult for you or what?
If a man has Ebola that man's body is said to be - SICK or DISEASED. 
A body without it will be said to be - HEALTHY. 

The two have the same type of body - flesh - but are not quite FUNCTIONING the same. 

See these:
"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin."
- Romans 6:6

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."
- Romans 6:12

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin."
- Romans 7:14

"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
- Romans 7: 24

What do these tell you about the 'flesh' of man? 
It is a body of sin (Romans 6:6) that needed to be dealt with by the work of Jesus.  Now, if you claim that that same Jesus had a body of sin then how does that qualify to deal with other people's sin?

Mbaemeka, a baby who has never committed any act of sin is as much a sinner before God as the adult who has committed a million sins. Why is that so? If you don't know ask. If you do, it should make things clearer for you. 

Jesus' body first had to be PERFECT in other for it to be a PERFECT SACRIFICE. It had to be sin-free for it to qualify to be an offering acceptable to God. Anything less would not have been suitable. 

Boss13:

If I claim to be a pastor and I quote from a book that is designed for the Jewish people and is 2000 years old - probably. If I make assertions that I have a direct telephone line to God and I call him and he tells me all the problems of the world - maybe. If I design miracle shows where I select familiar faces to play certain roles for me like joagbaje did - certainly, if my main objective is to live on the monetary contributions of members and pay a certain percentage to head office - sure. If I stand on pulpits/stages and tell people to close their eyes and pray and that everything will be okay rather than go resolve their issues and if I tell my members that by wearing selected aprons that no bullets or physical ailment will afflict them and I move around with stern looking bodyguards and undergo regular checkups in the finest hospitals the world can provide - then yes.

However, since I am none of this. I feel well damn please to affirm that I am no fraud. Do you do similar stuffs like what I mentioned above?

mbaemeka:

You keep running helter skelter with moot points that are neither here nor there in terms of their relevance to the discourse. John's book was written many years after the synoptic gospels because of the questions that were generated as a result of people's poor understanding of the first 3.

mbaemeka:
John didn't describe any Jesus who functioned as GOD. John only explained to people why that Man that they saw, knew, and heard about was indeed GOD.

Then John comes along and depicts Him as the Son of God in His Deity.

mbaemeka:
As per the "none of them mentioned a sinful/mortal flesh" or what not again this is as a result of your poorly done research on Jesus' life for they didn't need to tell people who saw a man that he was a man.

mbaemeka:
Besides, the greek word for flesh as used in John 1 is 'Carx' and it refers to "Carnal/Mortal/Adamic flesh" and nothing else.

mbaemeka:
John said Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to do any miracles. You tell me, will God need anyone to do a miracle for him? Is he not self-sufficient?

mbaemeka:

You would only fool the people in your camp with this mischievous way of taking my words out of context like you do the whole bible.

In the OT the lamb that was to be offered as the sin-offering was to be a white lamb born and bred without any defects or even spots. A single black spot would rule the lamb out as the sacrifice for sins.

Jesus' body was to be offered in the same way but the implications of it meant that he was to never commit any sin. Period. I repeatedly said it on this thread that unblemished when referring to Jesus' body means he never sinned and not that he had a different flesh. That's why I said if the unblemished body of Jesus was to be taken as literal the way the lamb in the OT was then Jesus badly beaten body would not have been good enough.

But you guys are so dishonest to accept a simple truth and only agree with yourself to go against those who expose your ignorance of the word. Imagine someone who said Jesus body and blood were natural now criticising someone who not only said here repeatedly that his blood was divine but also explained the significance of his body, which amongst other things is for our healings. But you guys are the one's who deny healings and claim medical science has replaced it thereby bringing serious disrepute to the body of Jesus.

mbaemeka:

I cannot understand why the very words of the bible seem to fly over you. Adam's flesh (BECAME) corruptible because of the fall and as such every man that was born into the world by a woman would have the same flesh. The mortality of Adam's flesh began after he fell before which it wasn't..

mbaemeka:
JWhen he was buried in the grave that flesh changed immediately to the incorruption/immortal meaning he resurrected to a new body. He didn't resurrect to the same body he had..

mbaemeka:
It is downright inane to think that something called Immortal can die. So if Jesus had immortal flesh while on earth he would NEVER have died..

mbaemeka:
There are ONLY two types of flesh: The Incorruptible and the Corruptible. There is no middle ground.

The unregenerate man means the SINFUL man because he has an EVIL SPIRIT living inside his mortal flesh. While the born again man is a righteous man because he has a righteous spirit living inside his mortal flesh.

mbaemeka:
While Jesus was on earth his SPIRIT was undefiled. It was inherently righteous because he got the components of his SPIRIT and BLOOD from his Father- God almighty. But his flesh was very mortal because of his earthly mother- Mary. That's why I have continued to say that Jesus wasn't a sinner (he didn't have a sinful nature) but he lived in the same body that sinners have.

mbaemeka:

So many empty words with nothing said. I have not said here or anywhere else that a child born today isn't as much a sinner as a grown man. The reason the child is a sinner is not because of his FLESH but because of his SPIRIT. Do you get it now?

A sinner is a SINFUL SPIRIT that is housed in a mortal body/flesh while a righteous man is a RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT living in a mortal flesh/body.

shdemidemi:
Trustman was right when he said you hardly read through what others write. You rush to reply all for the sake of your ego that feels challenged. I won't go into a tiff with you over when what was written or why it was written; after all, you can't back whatever assertions you wrote there by scripture.
Where exactly did I make this your statement in my post? If you must challenge the post, at least stay within the confines of what was said.
This was what I said- . You rejected what I said only to reecho it by saying- John only explained to people why that Man that they saw, knew, and heard about was indeed GOD.
Guy, it isn't a competition o. Take it easy.
The books are filled with how righteous/good this man(Jesus) is but saw no need to tell us if he also carries the same 'disease'(sin nature) you and I inherited from Adam. ok
I believe you lied here, if you didn't prove me wrong by telling me or pasting where you got your definition from.
The greek word for flesh is 'sarx' as used in John 1:14
'sarx' means the totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body.
If we replace the word flesh with spirit soul and body, lets see how the statement reads-
14 And the Word was made spirit soul and body, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Where exactly will the adamic sinful nature come through?
I thought you said Jesus is God earlier, are you confused?
Is He still God the Son?
and please give me the verse you are referring to here.

shdemidemi:

No, you are the one sleeping. Notice how you refuse to answer any question even though everyone answer all of yours.

If the first Adam had a flesh that isn't corrupt at some point, why will the second Adam come with a sinful flesh?



Bible passage to back this submission.



That is exactly why He rose on the third day without seeing corruption.



You talk nonsense!

what you call evil spirit is the sin nature without God. A regenerated man is one whose dead spirit is made alive by God through faith. Your so called evil spirit is present even in every born again today. Jesus never had such. phew!




What makes you a sinner is the body you live in. If Jesus live in the same body as you, he automatically becomes a sinner.

Mary had nothing to add to Jesus.She was only a vessel Jesus used to come to life. God had taken the form of man even before He came as Jesus through Mary in the old testament.

The only way Jesus could have carried anything from Adam would have been if a man and a woman had to come together to give birth to Him. God circumvented nature by bringing Jesus in to the world His own way.

shdemidemi:

Bro, a child has a dead spirit. Nothing like sinful spirit. Who taught you these much jargon?

The spirit is made alive when we accept God's condition for salvation.

A child is actually a sinner because of the flesh he/she inherited from his parents(Adam and Eve).

mbaemeka:

Dumb post again. Don't you read your bible? Paul said FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom.

You guys know nothing about who a man is and you wouldn't study or ask those who know to teach you. Imagine someone telling me that someone is a sinner because of his flesh.

This should qualify as dumbest post on this thread. If you ask politely I would show you in clear verses how that a sinners Spirit is what makes him a sinner and not his flesh (FOR MAN IS A SPIRIT and not a flesh). Afterall, all men (both born again and sinners have the same FLESH). Except you would give another senseless response and say the born again man has a different flesh and in that case I would rest my case with you on this thread entirely.

mbaemeka:

Dumb post. *Ignored* (I cannot be quoting scriptures and repeating myself while someone is feeding me BS)

shdemidemi:

teacher Mba

where in the bible did you come across sinful spirit?

mbaemeka: http://lexiconcordance.com/greek/4561.html

the link for 'Sarx' and I didn't even need to stress myself in finding this out. I would still show you more when I am better chanced.

shdemidemi:

teacher Mba

where in the bible did you come across sinful spirit?

shdemidemi:

Guy, who do you think you are fooling here?

WHERE IS THE DEFINITION YOU GAVE IN LINE WITH JOHN 1

Reiyvinn: Mbaemeka you really need to take it easy. I've read all your comments bro, you sound defensive and challenged. I'm not taking sides.... it's usually better to calm down before responding to a comment so that you get what the person is trying to say. More importantly, don't listen to rebut but listen to understand and if there are flaws, you refute. Reading the first line, scrolling down and then the last line won't help at all. It's not your ego that's at stake, no one really cares who "wins" an argument anyway..... Just saying....

mbaemeka:

I am not challenged neither do I feel defensive at all! What gets me irked is when they either blatantly twist what I said or ask me the same darn question one too many times!

It is tiring more than anything.

Thanks all the same.

mbaemeka: Hebrews 2:9, 14, 16-18 AMP

But we are able to see Jesus, Who was ranked lower than the angels for a little while, crowned with glory and honor because of His having suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God [to us sinners] He might experience death for every individual person.

Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature] that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death–that is, the devil–

For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand]. [Isa. 41:8, 9.]

So it is evident that it was essential that He be made like His brethren in every respect, in order that He might become a merciful (sympathetic) and faithful High Priest in the things related to God, to make atonement and propitiation for the people's sins. For because He Himself [in His humanity] has suffered in being tempted (tested and tried), He is able [immediately] to run to the cry of (assist, relieve) those who are being tempted and tested and tried [and who therefore are being exposed to suffering].

mbaemeka:

Abeg did you not see them defining the word Sarx there? What did I say that wasn't there and please compare it with your own definition of : Spirit, soul and body.

mbaemeka:

I am using my phone now. I would show you more later. Please study Ephesians 2:2 and remember that Jesus said to the Pharisees et al "Ye are of your father the devil". Is satan flesh or Spirit? Who created us in his image? Is God flesh or Spirit?

mbaemeka: "Ye are of your father the devil". Is satan flesh or Spirit? Who created us in his image? Is God flesh or Spirit?

mbaemeka: mbaemeka: Hebrews 2:9, 14, 16-18 AMP

But we are able to see Jesus, Who was ranked lower than the angels for a little while, crowned with glory and honor because of His having suffered death, in order that by the grace (unmerited favor) of God [to us sinners] He might experience death for every individual person.

Since, therefore, [these His] children share in flesh and blood [in the physical nature of human beings], He [Himself] in a similar manner partook of the same [nature] that by [going through] death He might bring to nought and make of no effect him who had the power of death–that is, the devil–

For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand]. [Isa. 41:8, 9.]

So it is evident that it was essential that He be made like His brethren in every respect, in order that He might become a merciful (sympathetic) and faithful High Priest in the things related to God, to make atonement and propitiation for the people's sins. For because He Himself [in His humanity] has suffered in being tempted (tested and tried), He is able [immediately] to run to the cry of (assist, relieve) those who are being tempted and tested and tried [and who therefore are being exposed to suffering].

shdemidemi:

My gosh!

I am sure you can do better. My request was for you to paste where you got your definition and not just any other site where it was defined.

MBA, where did you get your definition from?

I believe you lied here, if you didn't prove me wrong by telling me or pasting where you got your definition from.
The greek word for flesh is 'sarx' as used in John 1:14
'sarx' means the totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body.
If we replace the word flesh with spirit soul and body

Besides, the greek word for flesh as used in John 1 is 'Sarx' and it refers to "Carnal/Mortal/Adamic flesh" and nothing else.

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such):—carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly])

mbaemeka:

I
I don't know what you want me to give you again not to even mention that I forgave you for saying I lied. This link says the same:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4561

Why are you asking me for where I got my definition from? Why don't you just prove that Sarx refers to Spirit, soul and body as you have claimed or admit that you goofed big time.