1. That was an aspect of the law that referred to the governance of then Israel. It is similar to going to jail for murder. Even a christian living in grace if he murders would go to jail

2. Is spot on.

3. No, tongues is a good example. Surely, that manifestation of the Holy spirit always existed across all generations of believers but the question is to what level of prevalence? Do you agree that the manifestation of the gift seems more pronounced now than it would have been in say 1000 years ago? That is the same way with Tithes. There were always tithers from the days of Abraham till today. The notion that the message began to spread faster of late is not erroneous neither is the teaching itself. What will be erroneous is the idea that Tithers ceased to exist in totality until recently.

vooks:
1. You just did sir. Witchcraft attracted death penalty and it is not Moses but God who did. You should kill one of the many in Naija or prescribe the same
2. Refer to 1. if there is a global devourer and God rebukes Him for those who tithe, that would only be a benefit if He doesn't rebuke him for the rest. And you said as much, they are on their own. So it is tithe and forget the devourer or watch you eaten up alive
3. People's understanding of what Paul said? That's more palatable. If you possess an understanding PECULIAR to you and nobody else BEFORE you, you basically possess something, a Truth NOBODY else before you EVER did. Regardless, the Spirit in you revealed something He didn't to Christendom for 1900 years. Tongues is a bad example. I just learned that in EVERY generation of believers. there was manifestation of the gifts! Read about that from the book I shared on this thread. Interesting
https://www.nairaland.com/2002518/skeptics-guide-tongues-prophecy

Candour:


You're spineless man, that's why you find it difficult to take a stand here. Sensible men keep mute when they are not knowledgeable about a subject matter. I advice you do same. Gombs took a position, mbaemeka took a position. Try take one or shut up and let adults talk.

Keep seating.......on the fence, keep trolling; that's what cowards do.

Lol, you the spinefull one, i guess you're feeling better now being spinefull. I presume you would receive a dirty slap if you told satan(the father of liars) that you don't know my position, teaching and opinions on your new found question toy. Your guess wasn't as good as mine, I'm seated in Christ my brother.

Candour:


Good, oya drive home your point na. How long will I beg you to do that? Paul used ox and corn, why not pick up the devourer as you've been itching to but are too spineless to do?

We drove them home and parked long time ago, don't be a jew man waiting for the first coming of your messiah.

mbaemeka:
1 Peter 5:8 KJV

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I think you are still missing the big picture. I didn't say Moses wasn't referring to Oxes there. I said he wasn't referring to ONLY Oxes. The Ox as used there is allegorical or symbiotic for a worker who might need to have his pay from the environment that he works. So Paul interpreted it rightly in saying Ministers of the gospel should not be muzzled while they feed the flock- the word.

Ok

That's the same way when God said he would rebuke the devourer for the sake of tithers he wasn't referring to ONLY locusts and cankerworms. He was alluding to something deeper in meaning- the real devourer- the devil himself as the above NT verse has shown.

Are you trying to relate the named devourers of Malachi 3 to what the devil was seeking to do in your reference above? Have you read that entire chapter 5 to see what Peter was saying there? Pls Malachi 3 has nothing, I repeat, has nothing to do with 1Peter 5:8 except you're trying to say like creflo dollar that "its impossible to tithe properly and miss heaven". Peter was admonishing believers about guarding their christian testimony, not their finances.

Also recall, that I never claimed that the devourer seeks to attack only non-tithers. I said he seeks to attack everyone on earth, but even moreso US, christians- whether tithers or antitithers, poor or rich. Now the catch is that Tithers are those who have realised that it would be futile to battle the devourer on their own, so they let God into their finances by tithing. That way, God promised to rebuke him for them.

Of course caterpillars, cankerworms etc attack all farmlands all over the world but thank God for pesticides which God enabled scientists develop to combat them. God made that promise to Israel who were under a fail and get instantaneous judgement system. We are not under that system today. Malachi 3 wasn't talking to a Christian. God protects you out of love, not because you diligently paid a 10% charge in a building wrongly called church.

The teaching about the devourer in relation to finances is just one aspect. The devourer is not only financially penchant. He wants to destroy one's health, wealth, happiness, joy, peace, hope, mind etc. And Gods word has made sufficient provisions for us to countervail his attacks.

Like how adeboye preached it here?

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty for eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

And it will bring me back to the question that always brothers me. How come the health devourer still located the addresses of some of the most vociferous tithe proponents and acclaimed payers? How come?

God's mercies and provisions sustains us and keeps evil at bay, not devourer chasing tithe.

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3, is it a reference to the tithe laws of Moses or the Abraham's tithe?

So was circumcision. What do you think between Mosaic and Abrahamic circumcision was the subject of Acts 15 Jerusalem council?

Gombs:


Errrr, are you sure you're not confused? Tithe was existing way before the Torah. Thanks

vooks:
The significance of tithing is not in the 10% but in the enslavement of believers through half-hearted attempts at keeping Torah, the blatant mutilation of scriptures, the dishonesty and the subsequent Pharisaical pride; 'I am not like other men, I give tithes of my all....'

Okay, let's get this right this instance. TITHE IS VERY SIGNIFICANT in the enslavement of believers through half-hearted attempts at keeping Torah, the blatant mutilation of scriptures, the dishonesty and the subsequent Pharisaical pride; 'I am not like other men, I give tithes of my all....'
Is that the position? This seemeth to be position season.

Image123:


Lol, you the spinefull one, i guess you're feeling better now being spinefull. I presume you would receive a dirty slap if you told satan(the father of liars) that you don't know my position, teaching and opinions on your new found question toy. Your guess wasn't as good as mine, I'm seated in Christ my brother.

I guess Satan has slapped you before that makes you to know what gets him into the slapping mode? You don't have a position. Keep sitting on the fence where you're. Its safer for you that way

Image123:

We drove them home and parked long time ago, don't be a jew man waiting for the first coming of your messiah.

I can see where you parked it.....in your trolling shoes.

vooks:
You want to have another go ensnaring us?

What was your point in aksin the questions?

Oh you do learn hard. When did i ensnare you? Why is it important to have ANOTHER go? Do you know that those are the same questions you and your fellows ask us when we make simple biblical and common sense straight forward explanations?

vooks:
Apologies my brother,
I was referring you to consequences of breaking the Law for people UNDER the Law

Wages of sin is DEATH or eternal separation from God

Wages of sin is eternal separation from God? Who told you that? E bi like say today na harvest sha. See stockpile, lollllllllllllaaaaa.

Gombs:


Bizarre, aint it?

Really bizarre fellas. Tithe is the law when convenient for them. It is their benchmark. I'm not on a computer, i for show you how highly they think of it. I think it's drumb or so that fondly calls it baba.

1. No sir, witchcraft had nothing to do with governance. It was everybody's role to KILL witches

2. Am glad we are not fighting

3. Prevalence of spiritual gifts is difficult to estimate. You need the ratio of total Christians to Pentecostals throughout the 1980 years of Christendom.There was NO tithing for the first 300-400 years of Christianity. There is extensive documentation of giving and funding ministry over the same period and tithing is not among them. So tithing is not something apostles did and then it died off. No sir. Tithing if at all in the first century was among Jewish Christians just like feasts to the Levites of course. There is no record of no Gentiles tithing to the Levites nor to the apostles. Secular history alone is enough to debunk tithing myth. Add to that the scriptural silence on the same in the face of the many giving exhortation and any tithing argument is stillborn

mbaemeka:
1. That was an aspect of the law that referred to the governance of then Israel. It is similar to going to jail for murder. Even a christian living in grace if he murders would go to jail

2. Is spot on.

3. No, tongues is a good example. Surely, that manifestation of the Holy spirit always existed across all generations of believers but the question is to what level of prevalence? Do you agree that the manifestation of the gift seems more pronounced now than it would have been in say 1000 years ago? That is the same way with Tithes. There were always tithers from the days of Abraham till today. The notion that the message began to spread faster of late is not erroneous neither is the teaching itself. What will be erroneous is the idea that Tithers ceased to exist in totality until recently.

Nobody really cares about your percentage of giving to God, in fact how would we know what percentage you gave unless you told us? The baggage or garbage tithing brigade attach to that is the problem

Image123:


Okay, let's get this right this instance. TITHE IS VERY SIGNIFICANT in the enslavement of believers through half-hearted attempts at keeping Torah, the blatant mutilation of scriptures, the dishonesty and the subsequent Pharisaical pride; 'I am not like other men, I give tithes of my all....'
Is that the position? This seemeth to be position season.

I don't speak pidgin. What are you saying?

Image123:


Wages of sin is eternal separation from God? Who told you that? E bi like say today na harvest sha. See stockpile, lollllllllllllaaaaa.

vooks, you may wish to ask those bantering with you on tithes to define what the tithe consist of in scriptures and what they now call tithes.

Lev. 27:30-33 may help.

All this tithe... God said you should tithe... Malachi curse here, Malachi curse there... will fall on its face when you understand what the tithe was God was asking for in Malachi 3.

And then you/they will discover that those robbing God today are not those not tithing but those collecting an "illegal" unscriptural tithe. They are thieves and robbers and have turned God's house to a den of thieves, according to Jesus.

This is the reason non of them dare own up they are Pastors, except for the "indebted" Joagbaje. They know the minute their true identity is discovered, they loose credibility and the motive behind these stringent defense of an illegal monetary tithing scheme will be discovered.

@Candour, I will request you let Image123 have the last say. That's about all he seems to achieve here.

vooks:
Nobody really cares about your percentage of giving to God, in fact how would we know what percentage you gave unless you told us? The baggage or garbage tithing brigade attach to that is the problem

E.g, 'powerful teachings" from Malachi like this

Adeboye

In Malachi 3:8-11, God said all His children who are robbing Him in tithes and offerings have violated His covenant, and therefore are under a divine curse. However, He says if they will restitute their ways, He will personally rebuke the devourer for their sakes and open the windows of Heaven to them and give them a blessing they will be unable to contain. There are two type of devourers – the ones sent by the devil (John 10:10) and the ones sent by God. To deal with the devourers sent by the devil, simply resist him and he will flee from you as long as you are in right standing before God. But to deal with the devourers sent by God, it is through restitution. You will have to cry to God for forgiveness and thereafter undo what made Him to send the devourers in the first place. Do you owe God in tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or vows? Ask for forgiveness and go ahead and pay what you owe. If it is in tithes, also add 20% as interest being the penalty for eating your tithes (Leviticus 27:31).

https://www.nairaland.com/1458058/open-heavens-daily-devotional-sunday

Pat Robertson

Quoting Malachi, Robertson responded, “Your husband has all these medical problems because the ‘devourer’ has not been rebuked. You need to rebuke him. You give your tithes faithfully and God said, ‘I will rebuke the devourer,’ the person that is eating up your money and eating up your health. So you want to be healthy? That’s a promise in the Word.”

https://www.nairaland.com/1541026/pat-robertson-tells-elderly-woman

Oyakhilome

https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/9#8071513

The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris

It’s impossible for a Christian who only gives his tithes and offerings to feel like an accomplished giver, but the Bible lets us know these aren’t enough. Your tithes for example belong to God, and He expects you to give them to Him anyway. The man who does otherwise is a robber: “Will a man rob God: Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings” (Malachi 3:8 ).

God is not a man (Numbers 23:19); He’s God. So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t give it, as you would your free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift. Your offering on the other hand isnt just a donation made to the Church, but a sacrifice offered to a divine being. God actually demanded for it in Exodus 23:15: “…None shall appear before Me empty-handed” (AMP).

And it will bring me back to the question that always brothers me. How come the health devourer still located the addresses of some of the most vociferous tithe proponents and acclaimed payers? How come?

God's mercies and provisions sustains us and keeps evil at bay, not devourer chasing tithe.

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3, is it a reference to the tithe laws of Moses or the Abraham's tithe?

The devourer is the same. He is always walking about and looking for loopholes to exploit. God also has provisions for our health and it is left for us to utilise them. If a tither fails to utilise them he could prosper well in his finances but be found wanting in his health. It is the same reason 2 christians who believe in grace could be leading different lives. While one takes advantage of grace to live above sin, the other erroneously uses grace as his excuse. I can also ask why the financial devourer seems to attack more non-tithers than otherwise. I know a handful of them oo

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3 is 10% like in Abraham's day and during the law. Just like offerings in Abraham's day were the same with offerings in the law. The importance of that chapter is to showcase what God promised concerning tithers.

Of course caterpillars, cankerworms etc attack all farmlands all over the world but thank God for pesticides which God enabled scientists develop to combat them. God made that promise to Israel who were under a fail and get instantaneous judgement system. We are not under that system today. Malachi 3 wasn't talking to a Christian. God protects you out of love, not because you diligently paid a 10% charge in a building wrongly called church.

I am sure God loved Ananias and Saphirra too but he struck them for giving under compulsion or nah? Didn't they sell their own land by themselves and proceed to give what they had purposed in their hearts?

Sure that God protects us out of love (and God loves the whole world) but he would not let the whole world enter heaven inspite of his love. He has given the whole world a condition to meet to enter heaven and it is left for us to obey him. In this case it is wrt our finances.

Candour:


Are you trying to relate the named devourers of Malachi 3 to what the devil was seeking to do in your reference above? Have you read that entire chapter 5 to see what Peter was saying there? Pls Malachi 3 has nothing, I repeat, has nothing to do with 1Peter 5:8 except you're trying to say like creflo dollar that "its impossible to tithe properly and miss heaven". Peter was admonishing believers about guarding their christian testimony, not their finances.

That verse proves that Satan is the chief devourer. The one whom seeks to kill, steal and destroy. We can fix whatever into that box and we won't be overstretching the scriptures.

WinsomeX:
vooks, you may wish to ask those bantering with you on tithes to define what the tithe consist of in scriptures and what they now call tithes.

Lev. 27:30-33 may help.

All this tithe... God said you should tithe... Malachi curse here, Malachi curse there... will fall on its face when you understand what the tithe was God was asking for in Malachi 3.

And then you/they will discover that those robbing God today are not those not tithing but those collecting an "illegal" unscriptural tithe. They are thieves and robbers and have turned God's house to a den of thieves, according to Jesus.

This is the reason non of them dare own up they are Pastors, except for the "indebted" Joagbaje. They know the minute their true identity is discovered, they loose credibility and the motive behind these stringent defense of an illegal monetary tithing scheme will be discovered.

@Candour, I will request you let Image123 have the last say. That's about all he seems to achieve here.

If I were a pastor, I'd be more than glad to let you all know. I am not subtle as you, nor a doctorate degree holder in dishonesty as trustman, he of course beat you to that feat, with a small margin.

You know Midas touch would shatter your NL-life long crusade, no wonder you went for the jugular and called Hagin a failure. Tithing is one of the cardinal point of funding the work of the ministry, Until you and your brigade find a verse in the good book where tithing is condemned, I see no basis to continue debating it.

1. I am sure you would not go about witch-hunting to uphold that scripture. (Every pun intended). The essence of the OT to us is in identifying the promises of the principles found therein. In the case of Malachi 3 the promise is there and can never be done away with.

3. You are arguing from the silence of the scriptures on tithing but even Cornelius the Proselyte (who must have paid tithes while he was a practising Jew) wasn't identified as a tither. Do we also say he never tithed? What about urinating? Since it was never mentioned in the scriptures do we also conclude that the disciples never urinated?

Tithes wasn't done away with even during the NT. Paul was the author of Hebrews and he made references to it without announcing it's annulment and he used that book to assert the annulment of many other Jewish practices. It proves that he too wasn't against it or don't you think so? And can you prove from the NT that tithing was annuled?

vooks:
1. No sir, witchcraft had nothing to do with governance. It was everybody's role to KILL witches

2. Am glad we are not fighting

3. Prevalence of spiritual gifts is difficult to estimate. You need the ratio of total Christians to Pentecostals throughout the 1980 years of Christendom.There was NO tithing for the first 300-400 years of Christianity. There is extensive documentation of giving and funding ministry over the same period and tithing is not among them. So tithing is not something apostles did and then it died off. No sir. Tithing if at all in the first century was among Jewish Christians just like feasts to the Levites of course. There is no record of no Gentiles tithing to the Levites nor to the apostles. Secular history alone is enough to debunk tithing myth. Add to that the scriptural silence on the same in the face of the many giving exhortation and any tithing argument is stillborn

Image123:


Antitithers think tithe is very significant.

Really? I wonder how.

If the Christian was required or mandated to tithe the NT epistles would have strongly talked about it. Does that make it clearer for you?

Any attempt at using any portion of the OT to justify Christian tithing today is just an effort at futility. 

When the Mosaic law came it superseded anything before it. For those under the law to know if whatever they did pre-law was still required of them they had to look at the provisions of the law. They could not justify themselves by any other 'PERMUTATIONS'. 

In the same way The New Covenant supersedes anything before it. So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not. Any attempt at using any 'permutation' to justify what the New Covenant does not stand for does not justify any derived results. 

So because Paul used a portion of the OT to drive home a point does not give you the liberty to do so unless you know Paul's basis for doing so? You need to know how Paul applied the OT before you can do same in a sane way. 

1. Once again, the promise is nowhere in the NT exhortations to giving. Wouldn't it have made much sense teaching this 'hidden' blessing of giving to the early church in the epistles? The reason it is nowhere is simply because there was no tithing in the NT. The Malachi promise can't be done away any more than death penalty on witchcraft or adultery can

2. Cornelius gave alms not tithes. You are the one not just arguing from silence but conjuring non existent details from silence. If he went as much as tithing, he would have been a proselyte and Peter would not have hesitated going into his house. Proselytes like Nicolaus were receiving Holy Spirit long BEFORE Cornelius. Urinating? If such was ever a doctrine with far reaching blessings or consequences such as tithing, trust Holy Spirit to have dedicated an entire book to the same

Paul never authored Hebrews. The authorship is largely unknown but definitely non-Pauline. I favor Barnabas. Some guy bet Aquila and Priscila Nowhere does the author TEACH tithing, the same is mentioned in passing. It beats me that such a crucial doctrine with marvelous benefits that determine whether God fights Satan for you or not, is NEVER taught nowhere. Is it because the early church was well versed with the same that there was no need of teaching? But how could they yet Paul went out of his way to teach them giving? The church had Jews who would have known about tithing twice in a year and once every 3 years but what about the Gentiles? Among the numerous spiritual warfare verses, I would most certainly expect this 'secret'

Can you also prove that Freewill offering of animals and grains was annulled in the NT? Is there anything wrong with presenting Oyaks with a goat as Freewill offering (Lev 22:23)? And I mean for BURNING not roasting

mbaemeka:
1. I am sure you would not go about witch-hunting to uphold that scripture. (Every pun intended). The essence of the OT to us is in identifying the promises of the principles found therein. In the case of Malachi 3 the promise is there and can never be done away with.

3. You are arguing from the silence of the scriptures on tithing but even Cornelius the Proselyte (who must have paid tithes while he was a practising Jew) wasn't identified as a tither. Do we also say he never tithed? What about urinating? Since it was never mentioned in the scriptures do we also conclude that the disciples never urinated?

Tithes wasn't done away with even during the NT. Paul was the author of Hebrews and he made references to it without announcing it's annulment and he used that book to assert the annulment of many other Jewish practices. It proves that he too wasn't against it or don't you think so? And can you prove from the NT that tithing was annuled?

vooks:
Nobody really cares about your percentage of giving to God, in fact how would we know what percentage you gave unless you told us? The baggage or garbage tithing brigade attach to that is the problem

You don't care? That's news. So, tithe is significant one way or the other?

vooks:
I don't speak pidgin. What are you saying?

Answer the part you speak na.
Wages of sin is eternal separation from God? Who told you that? E bi like say today na harvest sha. See stockpile, lollllll

mbaemeka:


The devourer is the same. He is always walking about and looking for loopholes to exploit. God also has provisions for our health and it is left for us to utilise them. If a tither fails to utilise them he could prosper well in his finances but be found wanting in his health. It is the same reason 2 christians who believe in grace could be leading different lives. While one takes advantage of grace to live above sin, the other erroneously uses grace as his excuse. I can also ask why the financial devourer seems to attack more non-tithers than otherwise. I know a handful of them oo

You believe non payment of tithe is a loophole that enables devourers enter your affairs, I won't begrudge you your right to hold to your belief. Nothing in the entire New covenant hints at any thing like that as a consequence of not remitting 10% of your income to a 'church'. Grace doesn't promise you'll ever become sinless. Tithe preachers however promise that the tithe is a guarantee into prosperity and non payment is a guarantee into poverty. Thank God they're totally wrong.

@the bolded. There are actually more poverty stricken tithers in Christiandom than non tithers. The difference gets bigger still if you ignore the fantasy land dwellers claiming the rich status by 'faith'

Also bro, the tithe in Malachi 3 is 10% like in Abraham's day and during the law. Just like offerings in Abraham's day were the same with offerings in the law. The importance of that chapter is to showcase what God promised concerning tithers.

You see, if you and I decide to go on a walk through scriptures, you'll find that the tithe you claim you practice today is a sham caricature of every tithe injunction or practice in the bible.

I am sure God loved Ananias and Saphirra too but he struck them for giving under compulsion or nah? Didn't they sell their own land by themselves and proceed to give what they had purposed in their hearts?

God struck them down because they lied. They would have had nothing evil happen to them if they didn't give. There was no compulsion and Peter clearly made us realise this in that scripture. Give as you're able. No stipulated percentages.

Sure that God protects us out of love (and God loves the whole world) but he would not let the whole world enter heaven inspite of his love. He has given the whole world a condition to meet to enter heaven and it is left for us to obey him. In this case it is wrt our finances.

God also gave conditions for being a Jew (circumcision) and also a condition for child dedication (turtle doves etc) and also a condition for a woman observing menses to be accepted into the sanctuary but today I'm sure you won't claim those conditions apply to you. The key is to know what pertains to you and what doesn't. Tithing has nothing to do with Christianity.

That verse proves that Satan is the chief devourer. The one whom seeks to kill, steal and destroy. We can fix whatever into that box and we won't be overstretching the scriptures.

Tithing stops no devourer for a christian except maybe the G.O who founded the tithe collecting church and of course has right of first refusal to the funds. The grace of God is what prevents calamities for Christians.

Jesus taught that your giving should be in secret. Not even your right hand should know what your left is giving. The reason is because your giving is NOBODY's business. Your toxic garbage is what we are exorcising using brains and Wisdom from scriptures

Image123:


You don't care? That's news. So, tithe is significant one way or the other?

Gombs:

Until you and your brigade find a verse in the good book where tithing is condemned, I see no basis to continue debating it.

No basis whatever. In nanny's words, there's no point telling a blind man the sky is blue jorrr. See as their ears stand for thread as dem hear tithe.

vooks:
Jesus taught that your giving should be in secret. Not even your right hand should know what your left is giving. The reason is because your giving is NOBODY's business. Your toxic garbage is what we are exorcising using brains and Wisdom from scriptures

So my giving is nobody's business, yet y'all have your knickers in a suicidal twist over our tithe giving. That's weird.

Midas is one book Oyaks would never stock in his bookshop nor reference it for a second. You have Firstfruits service and he says that's unscriptural.

A question I posed to mbaemeka. Is there any verse in the good book where Freewill offerings (Lev 22:23) are condemned? What then stops you from presenting your priest Oyaks with a live animal for burning? Imagine Sinach track I-Know-Who-I-Am playing as the smoke of burning flesh rises up to heaven

Gombs:


If I were a pastor, I'd be more than glad to let you all know. I am not subtle as you, nor a doctorate degree holder in dishonesty as trustman, he of course beat you to that feat, with a small margin.

You know Midas touch would shatter your NL-life long crusade, no wonder you went for the jugular and called Hagin a failure. Tithing is one of the cardinal point of funding the work of the ministry, Until you and your brigade find a verse in the good book where tithing is condemned, I see no basis to continue debating it.

mbaemeka:



Tithes wasn't done away with even during the NT. Paul was the author of Hebrews and he made references to it without announcing it's annulment and he used that book to assert the annulment of many other Jewish practices. It proves that he too wasn't against it or don't you think so? And can you prove from the NT that tithing was annuled?

And who was doing the payment of tithes? The Jews in Jerusalem or gentile Christians in Rome, Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Ethiopia etc?

Who was doing the collecting? The levites operating at the temple in Jerusalem and living in the 48 levitical cities or the apostles preaching Christ all over the world and hated by the Jews (particularly the temple officials)?

Hebrews 7:5 KJV
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

I weep for you the the same way I weep for those who offer sacrifices under sacred trees in the name of Jesus...white garments are they?

Image123:


So my giving is nobody's business, yet y'all have your knickers in a suicidal twist over our tithe giving. That's weird.

trustman:


Really? I wonder how.

If the Christian was required or mandated to tithe the NT epistles would have strongly talked about it. Does that make it clearer for you?

Any attempt at using any portion of the OT to justify Christian tithing today is just an effort at futility. 

Funny.

[size=16pt]When the Mosaic law came it superseded anything before it. [/size] For those under the law to know if whatever they did pre-law was still required of them they had to look at the provisions of the law. They could not justify themselves by any other 'PERMUTATIONS'. 

Huh?
Capital punishment, like tithing, originated long before the Law, but the Law systematized its practice (Gen 9:6). Why wasn't it superseded. Or, are you saying capital punishment is not for Christians too? Why do you and WinsomeX make stamping statements without proper studying?

[size=20pt]In the same way The New Covenant supersedes anything before it.[/size] So the NT believer today needs to understand what the New Covenant is all about so as to know what is required of him or not. Any attempt at using any 'permutation' to justify what the New Covenant does not stand for does not justify any derived results. 

Paul did appeal to the Law of Moses for principles of financial giving, which shows the remaining validity of the principles pertaining to giving (I Cor 9:8-9; II Cor 9:9; I Tim 5:18). Or are you saying Paul was mistaken to borrow Moses' law?

You guys keep saying "But the New Testament does not require a tithe" "grace did this and that, the whole of the law was abolished" etc... yet, the New Testament does not mention corporal punishment, yet, you ok it today, yet you use the O.T. principle to train your children (Pr 13:24; 19:18; 22:15; 23:13-14; 29:15). The NT does not mention saving money, but you do so from Solomon (Pr 6:8; 30:25). It does not mention many godly rules or principles, which were conspicuously lifted from the O.T, yet you are here saying the NT supersedes anything before it. Please study na!

So because Paul used a portion of the OT to drive home a point does not give you the liberty to do so unless you know Paul's basis for doing so? You need to know how Paul applied the OT before you can do same in a sane way. 

See who said the NT supersedes the OT, yet a prominent NT fellow used a good chunk of it in teaching and doctrines, or are you more smarter or your Holy Spirit is the genuine type?

Oh dear Lord Jesus!

vooks:
Jesus taught that your giving should be in secret. Not even your right hand should know what your left is giving. The reason is because your giving is NOBODY's business. Your toxic garbage is what we are exorcising using brains and Wisdom from scriptures

Yet, Paul told the whole world what a particular church did about givings.

Yet Jesus knew what that widow gave, of course, because he was God.

You giving is not entirely you business only, ask Paul for further schooling.