BlackKenichi:



It's actually the Central African Bantus that have more Pygmy blood. Also from what I've seen of Zimbabweans, they tend to be the tallest of Southern African bantus.

There are still some pygmy tribes in the Congo. That may be why there are many short congolese. There seems to be animosity between the two groups who have remained distinct over a long period of time. But actual pure Bantus of the Congo are averagely tall.

East African Bantus absorbed Nilotes, Cushitics and "hunter-gatherer" genes.
Central African Bantus absorbed forest Pygmy genes.
Southern African Bantus absorbed Khoisan genes.

While there may have been some gene flow between the pygmy and Bantus of the Congo, there was no assimilation of the pygmy tribes as in the East African region. The Congo maintained an oppressive class system that made it difficult for those tribes to integrate into their society. This remains the case even now.

Also Bantus ethnics that are intermixed with Nilotes tend to be tall, dark and quite chiseled as well.

To the contrary. That visible bone structure is not a Nilotic but a Bantu trait. Just have a look at the tribes mentioned above. The Nilotic face is less chiseled. Have you met a Dinka or Nuer or any other Sudanese Nilotic tribe ? Only Nilotic who have mixed with Bantus like the Luo of Kenya who are mixed with the Bukusu and Suba will have that trait.

Southern African Bantus (except for many Zimbabweans) tend to be shorter, have larger hips and arses, lighter skinned, have epicanthic folds because of the Khoisan genes.

Depends on a particular tribe. The zulu are quite tall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass

Thanks for the info. I never got much from my physics class.

Epicanthic fold?

Epicanthic fold ( / ɛ pɪ ˌ k æ n θ ɪ kˈ f oʊld/ ),
[1] epicanthal fold , epicanthus , or simply
eye fold[2] are names for a skin fold of the upper eyelid , covering the inner corner (medial canthus ) of the eye . Other names for this trait include plica palpebronasalis[3] and palpebronasal fold. [4] One of the primary facial features often closely associated with the epicanth.

Epicanthic folds can, and most commonly do, [citation needed ] appear in East Asians , Southeast Asians , Central Asians,
Indigenous Americans , the San people ,
Berbers , Inuit and "occasionally in Europeans (e.g., Scandinavians and Poles)". [6][7][8]

BlackKenichi, You mean Chinese eyes as we commonly call them.

BlackKenichi:

There was never any such thing as "Bantu" unity.

My guy, why are you so bent on disputing a common bantu source, do you have some actual scientific explanation?

muafrika:
Epicanthic fold?
Epicanthic fold ( / ɛ pɪ ˌ k æ n θ ɪ kˈ f oʊld/ ),
[1] epicanthal fold , epicanthus , or simply
eye fold[2] are names for a skin fold of the upper eyelid , covering the inner corner (medial canthus ) of the eye . Other names for this trait include plica palpebronasalis[3] and palpebronasal fold. [4] One of the primary facial features often closely associated with the epicanth.
Epicanthic folds can, and most commonly do, [citation needed ] appear in East Asians , Southeast Asians , Central Asians,
Indigenous Americans , the San people ,
Berbers , Inuit and "occasionally in Europeans (e.g., Scandinavians and Poles)". [6][7][8]
BlackKenichi, You mean Chinese eyes as we commonly call them.

Is that what causes their peculiar eye shape, and what adaptation does it serve?

pkjag:

My guy, why are you so bent on disputing a common bantu source, do you have some actual scientific explanation?

Is that what causes their peculiar eye shape, and what adaptation does it serve?

Yes. But I think its common for people with tiny eyes. I believe ive seen it on some Kenyans.

The effect is not yet known. The jury is still out on this one.

*I stand corrected. Just met a cute Kalenjin with eyes so tiny but they did not have a fold. We need a thread on pretty Kalenjins.

pkjag:

My guy, why are you so bent on disputing a common bantu source, do you have some actual scientific explanation?

I'm not disputing the source of the Bantu. Everybody knows that the bantu expansion started around Southeastern Nigeria/Western Cameroon area 4-5 kya.

muafrika:

Yes. But I think its common for people with tiny eyes. I believe ive seen it on some Kenyans.
The effect is not yet known. The jury is still out on this one.
*I stand corrected. Just met a cute Kalenjin with eyes so tiny but they did not have a fold. We need a thread on pretty Kalenjins.

Honestly, the only kalenjins and maasais i've ever met are very few and far apart and are usually pretty mixed (forgive me kalenjins i do not live in that part of kenya where you are a majority so i may be wrong). I also believe the Moipei sisters have some bantu genes in them just like people like Saitoti.

BlackKenichi:

I'm not disputing the source of the Bantu. Everybody knows that the bantu expansion started around Southeastern Nigeria/Western Cameroon area 4-5 kya.

What i meant was an original proto-bantu tribe, why do you dispute that?

pkjag:

Honestly, the only kalenjins and maasais i've ever met are very few and far apart and are usually pretty mixed (forgive me kalenjins i do not live in that part of kenya where you are a majority so i may be wrong).

[You need to meet the Nandi subtribe. They are mixed though. I believe they were previously a hunter/ gatherer group, at least according to the maasai myths of origin ]

I also believe the Moipei sisters have some bantu genes in them just like people like Saitoti.

Sure. Most maasai have Kikuyu genes. I don't know if you've heard this story. Happened about 200 years ago when the Maasai were the dominant tribe - in numbers and battle. So there was was a devastating famine that threatened to wipe them out. They are nomads. Fully dependent on the weather for sustainability. Their neighbours, the Kikuyu who live on the mountaneous region neighbouring the Maasai plains, farmers like other Bantu communities, had plenty of food.

The maasai therefore went to the Agikuyu and asked for a favour. That the Kikuyu would take in Maasai women and children lest they die of famine. The Maasai men were to go with their cattle to search for greener pastures, literally. The Agikuyu accepted.

Some time passed and, the rains came back and so did the Maasai men with their cattle. They went up to the fertile lands of the Agikuyu to bring back their wives and children. To their shock, All their women had been converted into wives for the Agikuyu. They could only take back some of their children, as they chose not to fight the Agikuyu over the deed. Some of their wives returned with Agikuyu children.

Instead of animosity, this created a lifelong blood relation between the two tribes, and even now, the two regard each other with respect and you will find Kikuyus with Maasai names like Nyokabi, and Maasais with Kikuyu names passed down generations. The two tribes are also hard to tell apart due to this admixture.

This is a true story.

muafrika:

[You need to meet the Nandi subtribe. They are mixed though. I believe they were previously a hunter/ gatherer group, at least according to the maasai myths of origin ]
Sure. Most maasai have Kikuyu genes. I don't know if you've heard this story. Happened about 200 years ago when the Maasai were the dominant tribe - in numbers and battle. So there was was a devastating famine that threatened to wipe them out. they are nomads. fully dependent on the weather for sustainable. Their neighbours, the Kikuyu who live on the mountaneous region neighbouring the Maasai plains, farmers like other Bantu communities, had plenty of food.
The maasai therefore went to the Agikuyu and made asked for a favour. That the Kikuyu would take in Maasai women and children lest they die of famine. The Maasai men were to go with their cattle to search for greener pastures, literally. The Agikuyu accepted.
Some time passed and, the rains came back and so did the Maasai men with their cattle. They went up to the fertile lands of the Agikuyu to bring back their wives and children. To their shock, All their women had been converted into wives for the Agikuyu. They could only take back some of their children, as they chose not to fight the Agikuyu over the deed. Some of their wives returned with Agikuyu children.
Instead, this created a lifelong blood relation between the two tribes, and even now, the two regard each other with respect and you will find Kikuyu with Maasai names like Nyokabi, and Maasais with Kikuyu names passed down generations. The two tribes are also hard to tell apart due to this admixture.
This is a true story.

Yes i've heard it, but it's mostly in Nyandarua county and in the Nairobi parts neighbouring Kiambu and Ngong' when the majority population of Nairobi back then was Kikuyus and Maasais. In Nyandarua there are many towns with Maasai names like Ol Kalou, Ol jororok, Kinangop, etc. But the part about Nyokabi, i'm not sure, cause it's mostly the Embu that have that name, i think its still Kikuyu cause there are other names like Nyawira and Nyambura, the Maasai names are like Maathai (wangari wa maathai) which means Maasai in Kikuyu. Also i hear (not sure) that the majority of Nakuru city/town (not county) is inhabited by kikuyus, also Laikipia county is also mostly inhabited by Kikuyu although the Samburus own most of the land. Also the proper Kikuyu name for God is Murungu but we inherited some Maasai customs so the name changed to Ngai which really is Maasai. So most Nyandarua kikuyu have lots of Maasai genes and are relatively taller.

pkjag:

Yes i've heard it, but it's mostly in Nyandarua county and in the Nairobi parts neighbouring Kiambu and Ngong' when the majority population of Nairobi back then was Kikuyus and Maasais. In Nyandarua there are many towns with Maasai names like Ol Kalou, Ol jororok, Kinangop, etc. But the part about Nyokabi, i'm not sure, cause it's mostly the Embu that have that name, i think its still Kikuyu cause there are other names like Nyawira and Nyambura, the Maasai names are like Maathai (wangari wa maathai) which means Maasai in Kikuyu. Also i hear (not sure) that the majority of Nakuru city/town (not county) is inhabited by kikuyus, also Laikipia county is also mostly inhabited by Kikuyu although the Samburus own most of the land. Also the proper Kikuyu name for God is Murungu but we inherited some Maasai customs so the name changed to Ngai which really is Maasai. So most Nyandarua kikuyu have lots of Maasai genes and are relatively taller.

Why is it that the Embu are considered a distinct tribe from both the Kikuyu and the Meru? Are they a bona fide lone standing tribe apart from the two? Whats their history?

muafrika:
Why is it that the Embu are considered a distinct tribe from both the Kikuyu and the Meru? Are they a bona fide lone standing tribe apart from the two? Whats their history?

I think these linguists initially looked at cultural practices when identifying tribes, the Embu are very much Kikuyus with a different accent. Also, most Embu male names are like Nyaga (ostrich or grace), Muriithi (shepherd or herder, also in Meru), Kithae (kikuyus alternative is Githae), Njiru (black), Njeru (white), etc, these are the most common names, while they do have meaning in Kikuyu, very few kiuks have those names except the ones in Kirinyaga county which has the Gichugu dialect, which is basically the Embu language (but they do not call themselves Embu). So naming and accent i think are the only differences btn Kikuyus and Embus.

The Meru are a bit different, i think because of the separation of Mount Kenya, the Kikuyus lost touch with them when migrating therefore they have a slightly different vocabulary and accent and cultural practices, if that's the basis of tribe then they must be a different tribe, but if you ask me, they are a different dialect of Kikuyus or the Kikuyus are a different dialect of the Meru. They also have the same behaviour of naming like the Embu, names like Kawira (Embu and kikuyu alternative is Nyawira), Munene (which means Mkubwa), Murimi (which means one who farms) etc, basically they have names which have meanings in Kikuyu but you'd never find a Kikuyu with such a name, i find it a bit strange.
The Kamba too have that behaviour with names like Kanini (kadogo), Munyaka (chance), Mwende (one who is loved), Mumbi (creator, this one though is common in all central bantu languages), etc.

It is generally considered that the Meru retain most of the bantu culture and language among the central bantus, so it might have been that the Kikuyus were initially Meru, some also say that they were initially kamba. There's lots of confusion around their origin because even among themselves they also have their different dialects, those in the North near Isiolo have a cushitic-nilotic type of culture while those in the eastern mount Kenya are more bantu, so it's really confusing cause they say that they came from Egypt through the Nile, but the standard Meru language is the Imenti dialect which is close to Kikuyu.

pkjag:

I think these linguists initially looked at cultural practices when identifying tribes, the Embu are very much Kikuyus with a different accent. Also, most Embu male names are like Nyaga (ostrich or grace), Muriithi (shepherd or herder, also in Meru), Kithae (kikuyus alternative is Githae), etc these are the most common names, while they do have meaning in Kikuyu, very few kiuks have those name except the ones in Kirinyaga county which has the Gichugu dialect, which is basically the Embu language (but they do not call themselves Embu). So naming and accent i think are the only differences btn Kikuyus and Embus.

The Meru are a bit different, i think because of the separation of Mount Kenya, the Kikuyus lost touch with them when migrating therefore they have a slightly different vocabulary and accent and cultural practices, if that's the basis of tribe then they must be a different tribe, but if you ask me, they are a different dialect of Kikuyus or the Kikuyus are a different dialect of the Meru. They also have the same behaviour of naming like the Meru, names like Kawira (Embu and kikuyu alternative is Nyawira), Munene (which means Mkubwa), Murimi (which means one who farms) etc, basically they have names which have meanings in Kikuyu but you'd never find a Kikuyu with such a name, i find it a bit strange.
The Kamba too have that behaviour with names like Kanini (kadogo), Munyaka (chance), Mwende (one who is loved), Mumbi (creator, this one though is common in all central bantu languages), etc.

It is generally considered that the Meru retain most of the bantu culture and language among the central bantus, so it might have been that the Kikuyus were initially Meru, some also say that they were initially kamba. There's lots of confusion around their origin because even among themselves they also have their different dialects, those in the North near Isiolo have a cushitic-nilotic type of culture while those in the eastern mount Kenya are more bantu, so it's really confusing cause they say that they came from Egypt through the Nile, but the standard Meru language is the Imenti dialect which is close to Kikuyu.

Interesting.

pkjag:

What i meant was an original proto-bantu tribe, why do you dispute that?

I don't dispute that. However we have no idea who this Proto bantu people were.

pkjag:

Yes i've heard it, but it's mostly in Nyandarua county and in the Nairobi parts neighbouring Kiambu and Ngong' when the majority population of Nairobi back then was Kikuyus and Maasais. In Nyandarua there are many towns with Maasai names like Ol Kalou, Ol jororok, Kinangop, etc. But the part about Nyokabi, i'm not sure, cause it's mostly the Embu that have that name, i think its still Kikuyu cause there are other names like Nyawira and Nyambura, the Maasai names are like Maathai (wangari wa maathai) which means Maasai in Kikuyu. Also i hear (not sure) that the majority of Nakuru city/town (not county) is inhabited by kikuyus, also Laikipia county is also mostly inhabited by Kikuyu although the Samburus own most of the land. Also the proper Kikuyu name for God is Murungu but we inherited some Maasai customs so the name changed to Ngai which really is Maasai. So most Nyandarua kikuyu have lots of Maasai genes and are relatively taller.

pkjag:

I think these linguists initially looked at cultural practices when identifying tribes, the Embu are very much Kikuyus with a different accent. Also, most Embu male names are like Nyaga (ostrich or grace), Muriithi (shepherd or herder, also in Meru), Kithae (kikuyus alternative is Githae), etc these are the most common names, while they do have meaning in Kikuyu, very few kiuks have those names except the ones in Kirinyaga county which has the Gichugu dialect, which is basically the Embu language (but they do not call themselves Embu). So naming and accent i think are the only differences btn Kikuyus and Embus.

The Meru are a bit different, i think because of the separation of Mount Kenya, the Kikuyus lost touch with them when migrating therefore they have a slightly different vocabulary and accent and cultural practices, if that's the basis of tribe then they must be a different tribe, but if you ask me, they are a different dialect of Kikuyus or the Kikuyus are a different dialect of the Meru. They also have the same behaviour of naming like the Embu, names like Kawira (Embu and kikuyu alternative is Nyawira), Munene (which means Mkubwa), Murimi (which means one who farms) etc, basically they have names which have meanings in Kikuyu but you'd never find a Kikuyu with such a name, i find it a bit strange.
The Kamba too have that behaviour with names like Kanini (kadogo), Munyaka (chance), Mwende (one who is loved), Mumbi (creator, this one though is common in all central bantu languages), etc.

It is generally considered that the Meru retain most of the bantu culture and language among the central bantus, so it might have been that the Kikuyus were initially Meru, some also say that they were initially kamba. There's lots of confusion around their origin because even among themselves they also have their different dialects, those in the North near Isiolo have a cushitic-nilotic type of culture while those in the eastern mount Kenya are more bantu, so it's really confusing cause they say that they came from Egypt through the Nile, but the standard Meru language is the Imenti dialect which is close to Kikuyu.

Wow! Thanks for the info.

BlackKenichi:

Wow! Thanks for the info.

Ok, i didn't know you were that interested so what are you gonna do with the info?

pkjag:

Ok, i didn't know you were that interested so what are you gonna do with the info?

Nothing.

I like camerounese people for their attachment to their cultures.The video below is so beautiful!Unlike my Congolese people who threw away all their fantastic heritage and adopted whites ways, camerouneses still have a lot richness in their cultures.Bamouns and bamilekes are quite fantastic people!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jVRXHwRbq4

sonzo666:
I like camerounese people for their attachment to their cultures.The video below is so beautiful!Unlike my Congolese people who threw away all their fantastic heritage and adopted whites ways, camerouneses still have a lot richness in their cultures.Bamouns and bamilekes are quite fantastic people!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jVRXHwRbq4

Technically the Bamoun/Bamum and Bamileke aren't Bantu.

BlackKenichi:

Technically the Bamoun/Bamum and Bamileke aren't Bantu.

What ethnic category are they;

>1st according to their oral history,

>2nd, according to anthropologists/genetics?


Cc: Nayah

BlackKenichi:

Technically the Bamoun/Bamum and Bamileke aren't Bantu.

Can you elaborates?

muafrika:

What ethnic category are they;

>1st according to their oral history,

>2nd, according to anthropologists/genetics?


Cc: Nayah

sonzo666:

Can you elaborates?

Simple. The Bamileke and Bamoun/Bamum don't speak a Bantu Language. Both ethnic groups have some cultural and linguistic links with bantu but not enough to make them bantu.

BlackKenichi:

Simple. The Bamileke and Bamoun/Bamum don't speak a Bantu Language. Both ethnic groups have some cultural and linguistic links with bantu but not enough to make them bantu.

Can you actually prove that or are you drawing your conclusions from some deprecated classifications?What makes you think that both the bamileke and the bamoun aren't bantu languages?As far I am concerned,the bamoun and the bamileke are archaic forms of common bantu languages mixed with some foreign influences.

Mfom / Mfon=king in bamoun or bamileke
Mfum/mfumu/ mkun=king in kikongo

BlackKenichi:

Simple. The Bamileke and Bamoun/Bamum don't speak a Bantu Language. Both ethnic groups have some cultural and linguistic links with bantu but not enough to make them bantu.

You rely too much on mzungu-based data

sonzo666:

Can you actually prove that or are you drawing your conclusions from some deprecated classifications?What makes you think that both the bamileke and the bamoun aren't bantu languages?As far I am concerned,the bamoun and the bamileke are archaic forms of common bantu languages mixed with some foreign influences.
Mfom / Mfon=king in bamoun or bamileke
Mfum/mfumu/ mkun=king in kikongo

If that's really the name of the king then the languages might be bantu, in kiswahili king is Mfalme, it seems like there is some similarity, give me more names maybe like child, man, goat, chicken, cow and we'll compare

Leon Mundele the MFUMU(KING) of YOJI:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-4toeyp2TM

sonzo666:

Can you actually prove that or are you drawing your conclusions from some deprecated classifications? What makes you think that both the bamileke and the bamoun aren't bantu languages?As far I am concerned,the bamoun and the bamileke are archaic forms of common bantu languages mixed with some foreign influences.

Mfom / Mfon=king in bamoun or bamileke
Mfum/mfumu/ mkun=king in kikongo

Because professional linguists have studied it the languages and determined that Bamoun and Bamileke aren't Bantu languages. I will admit that African Language families are understudied.

pkjag:
You rely too much on mzungu-based data

Show me data from other sources. The "Mzungu" are practically the only people that are doing in depth studies of Languages. I don't see any Africans doing any in depth studies on African languages. On the contrary. Most Africans failed to make their own writing script or adopt a writing script. In fact if it wasn't for the "mzungu" most languages would never have been deciphered or written.
You can blame the "mzungu" for a lot of things but studying and codifying African languages isn't one of them.

BlackKenichi:

Because professional linguists have studied it the languages and determined that Bamoun and Bamileke aren't Bantu languages. I will admit that African Language families are understudied.


Show me data from other sources. The "Mzungu" are practically the only people that are doing in depth studies of Languages. I don't see any Africans doing any in depth studies on African languages. On the contrary. Most Africans failed to make their own writing script or adopt a writing script. In fact if it wasn't for the "mzungu" most languages would never have been deciphered or written.
You can blame the "mzungu" for a lot of things but studying and codifying African languages isn't one of them.

Why cant you bring some concrete evidences to back up your claims?Cant you think by yourself?
Bamileke in kikongo means those(ba) who live in the swamp(leki).Maybe you should ask a real bamileke what the word "bamileke" means!Even the simple usage of the prefix "ba" already suggests a bantu language.Come up with concrete examples to back up your claims instead of relying on some very old and incorrect theories.

sonzo666:

Why cant you bring some concrete evidences to back up your claims? Cant you think by yourself?
Bamileke in kikongo means those(ba) who live in the swamp(leki).Maybe you should ask a real bamileke what the word "bamileke" means!Even the simple usage of the prefix "ba" already suggests a bantu language. Come up with concrete examples to back up your claims instead of relying on some very old and incorrect theories.

Not necessarily. Many bantu languages use other prefixes like "isi", "ki" etc. I'm not going out my way to disprove linguists that have studied languages more in depth than ordinary people.

BlackKenichi:

Because professional linguists have studied it the languages and determined that Bamoun and Bamileke aren't Bantu languages. I will admit that African Language families are understudied.
Show me data from other sources. The "Mzungu" are practically the only people that are doing in depth studies of Languages. I don't see any Africans doing any in depth studies on African languages. On the contrary. Most Africans failed to make their own writing script or adopt a writing script. In fact if it wasn't for the "mzungu" most languages would never have been deciphered or written.
You can blame the "mzungu" for a lot of things but studying and codifying African languages isn't one of them.

I am not blaming them for studying african languages, rather for their many wrong assumptions, if you spoke an african language and knew enough history about africa then you'd understand what I'm talking about. Most african based linguists and anthropologists are debunking western based theories and re-writing them in their native tongue. An example is the swahili, there's so much misconception still being floated around in western linguistic circles that it's a pity that most african natives take their words to be true, taking to mind that swahili is the most studied and well documented bantu language. There are numerous literature written in the arabic script showing how the original swahili was being spoken, just because the europeans could not read it, doesn't give them the authority to make wrong assumptions.

Even today, western linguists still propagate the idea that swahili is a mixture of arabic and several other bantu languages. You cannot see it cause you don't speak any african language, that's the advantage we have on them, no matter how much research they do, unless they can speak as many of the languages as they purport to compare and analyze they cannot effectively study african languages. Yeah some may speak swahili but not any other bantu language, or arabic, so the interpretation will always be limited. Most swahili native linguists however speak at least 4 languages, e.g english, swahili, a bantu mother tongue and arabic, so they are better placed in analyzing the connection btn these languages. The same can be said elsewhere in africa. In europe most linguists studying european languages say romance languages/germanic languages, speak latin, an additional romance language and maybe a germanic language. It's funny to think that they can come and only learn one language and think that they can effectively analyze it, no that won't work even an enthusiast can see through all the lies and classifications. That's the problem with western data, I learnt early on to take any western data on africa with a pinch of salt, you should also do the same.

sonzo666:

Why cant you bring some concrete evidences to back up your claims?Cant you think by yourself?
Bamileke in kikongo means those(ba) who live in the swamp(leki).Maybe you should ask a real bamileke what the word "bamileke" means!Even the simple usage of the prefix "ba" already suggests a bantu language.Come up with concrete examples to back up your claims instead of relying on some very old and incorrect theories.

BlackKenichi:

Not necessarily. Many bantu languages use other prefixes like "isi", "ki" etc. I'm not going out my way to disprove linguists that have studied languages more in depth than ordinary people.

Here sonzo666 is right isi is a language prefix used by the southern african bantus. For naming their people they mostly use ama, the central and eastern african bantus mostly use ki, gi, lu, etc prefixes for naming their languages, while for naming their people they use ba, aba, wa and a
e.g
the amaZulu of South Africa speak isiZulu
the amaXhosa of South Africa speak isiXhosa
the amaNdebele of South Africa/Zimbabwe speak isiNdebele
the aGikuyu of Kenya speak Gikuyu
the waSwahili of Kenya and Tanzania speak kiSwahili
the baGanda of Uganda speak luGanda
the abaGusii of Kenya speak kisii

pkjag:

I am not blaming them for studying african languages, rather for their many wrong assumptions, if you spoke an african language and knew enough history about africa then you'd understand what I'm talking about. Most african based linguists and anthropologists are debunking western based theories and re-writing them in their native tongue. An example is the swahili, there's so much misconception still being floated around in western linguistic circles that it's a pity that most african natives take their words to be true, taking to mind that swahili is the most studied and well documented bantu language. There are numerous literature written in the arabic script showing how the original swahili was being spoken, just because the europeans could not read it, doesn't give them the authority to make wrong assumptions.

I know to a certain extent. The Swahil used the Arabic script to write. Believe or not many Western scholars now believe that the Swahili are indigenous.

pkjag:
Even today, western linguists still propagate the idea that swahili is a mixture of arabic and several other bantu languages.

Not anymore.

pkjag:
You cannot see it cause you don't speak any african language, that's the advantage we have on them, no matter how much research they do, unless they can speak as many of the languages as they purport to compare and analyze they cannot effectively study african languages.

That's true

pkjag:
Yeah some may speak swahili but not any other bantu language, or arabic, so the interpretation will always be limited. Most swahili native linguists however speak at least 4 languages, e.g english, swahili, a bantu mother tongue and arabic, so they are better placed in analyzing the connection btn these languages.

Not really. You don't need to know a language through and through to see the connections it has to other languages. For example I studied French and Spanish in school and I could defo see the relation. I didn't need to be fluent in both languages to see or hear the connections.

pkjag:
That's the problem with western data, I learnt early on to take any western data on africa with a pinch of salt, you should also do the same.

I do take it with a pinch of salt

pkjag:


Here sonzo666 is right isi is a language prefix used by the southern african bantus for naming their people they mostly use ama, the central and eastern african bantus mostly use ki, gi, lu, etc prefixes for naming their languages, while for naming their people they use ba, aba, wa and a
e.g
the amaZulu of South Africa speak isiZulu
the amaXhosa of South Africa speak isiXhosa
the amaNdebele of South Africa/Zimbabwe speak isiNdebele
the aGikuyu of Kenya speak Gikuyu
the waSwahili of Kenya and Tanzania speak kiSwahili
the baGanda of Uganda speak luGanda
the abaGusii of Kenya speak kisii

Thanks. I got the prefixes mixed up.

BlackKenichi:

I know to a certain extent. The Swahil used the Arabic script to write. Believe or not many Western scholars now believe that the Swahili are indigenous.

Although they do, they still do not acknowledge explanations such as the word swahili did not come from the arab words sahil and sahel, the african linguists have given a better explanation of how it might have come about.

Not anymore.

As i said there are certain conflicts here about the origin of some words.

Not really. You don't need to know a language through and through to see the connections it has to other languages. For example I studied French and Spanish in school and I could defo see the relation. I didn't need to be fluent in both languages to see or hear the connections.

Here in africa you need to cause most indigenous languages are not translated and to understand their cultures, naming, practices, ceremonies you have to at least understand the language if you come from a different place. There are also some phrases that you can't directly translate into a language, so to make more headway you have to understand the language. These days most western linguists studying african languages rely on the african linguists and institutions, if they didn't do that they'd be making more mistakes like they used to in the precolonial times.

BlackKenichi:

I know to a certain extent. The Swahil used the Arabic script to write. Believe or not many Western scholars now believe that the Swahili are indigenous.

Although they do, they still do not acknowledge explanations such as the word swahili did not come from the arab words sahil and sahel, the african linguists have given a better explanation of how it might have come about.

Not anymore.

As i said there are certain conflicts here about the origin of some words.

Not really. You don't need to know a language through and through to see the connections it has to other languages. For example I studied French and Spanish in school and I could defo see the relation. I didn't need to be fluent in both languages to see or hear the connections.

This is a matter of philosophy but in my opinion, here in africa you need to cause most indigenous languages are not translated and to understand their cultures, naming, practices, ceremonies you have to at least understand the language if you come from a different place. There are also some phrases that you can't directly translate into a language, so to make more headway you have to understand the language. These days most western linguists studying african languages rely on the african linguists and institutions, if they didn't do that they'd be making more mistakes like they used to in the precolonial times.