clevvermind:
it means you are the one that is not ready to know and use it. your mind is fixed.

Pr0ton:


It is getting funnier. We are still coming back to where we think we left. "He separated children from b.astards" yet "He created us all".

Pr0ton:



Gen 15, Abraham was making a sacifice to God, then a bird came and landed on the sacifice. Abraham chased it away, but God got angry because of that. In verse 13, God told Abraham that his "seed will be stangers in a land that is not theirs. They shall be punished by them and servr them for 400 years" he'll however "deliver them from the land, and punish the land they served" verse 14.

In Exodus 1:11-14, the Israelites are afflicted, made slaves and, in verse 22, got their sons killed.

In chapter 6 verses 5 and 6 God "remembered His covenant" and promised "to deliver them from the burdens of Egyptians"

Pr0ton:


Nope. I'm open minded. I don't just want to delude myself. That's why I'm an ex-Christian.

Pr0ton:
But he created them. Why the difference?

BabaGnoni:
...The difference is as simple as, will you take ownership of what you didnt create, didnt or havent adopted?
- only a thief, a thief like in John 10:10, will do such

Pr0ton:
What are you saying
There are some humans God didn't create

Hiswordxray:
I can see you are finding it difficult to understand what children is.
Don't worry when you give birth to your own children you would understand the meaning of children.

Pr0ton:
When you hear his voice do not harden your heart.

Pr0ton:
It depends on which Bible.
Except you tell me what you are driving at, I might not answer this well.

Pr0ton:
You didn't get it my point.
Suffice to say, he hardned his heart before he sent Moses.

Hiswordxray:

I can see you are finding it difficult to understand what children is.
Don't worry when you give birth to your own children you would understand the meaning of children.

MzNelly:


Thanks.

Genesis 15:14: "But I will judge the nation they will serve, and after that they will go out with many possessions.

Note that this was the Abrahamic covenant. {Exodus 6:5}
God mentioned that after the affliction, his offspring will be given that land.
He also mentioned that after their affliction, they would leave with possessions.

It has a larger fulfillment for us today.

Hiswordxray:

Is that what you tell yourself?
Even the most deluded person will claim to be open minded.

Pr0ton:


But ma, you make no point here.

Pr0ton:


If you as well read Exodus 4, the prior incident to the one you pointed out in Exodus 5, you'll see that God had already said in verse 21 that He would harden Pharoah's heart.

And I love the way your loving God punishes people too.

clevvermind:
this is the reason why God hardens pharoah's heart.


17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Rom 9:17.

i don't think God punishes anyone unjustly though. one must have committed some sins.

clevvermind:
it seems Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before.

1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel:
‘Let My people go, that they may hold a feast to Me in the wilderness.’ ”
2 And Pharaoh said,
“Who is the LORD, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the LORD, nor will I let Israel go.”
- Exodus 5:1-2.

pharoah wants to contest with God and God had to prove to him that he was far superior to him. no one contest with God.
satan tries it and he was cast out. Nebuchadnezzar tries it and he was turned to an animal for seven years.
Herod tries it and his body gone rotten and eaten by worms. etc.

Pr0ton:
If you as well read Exodus 4, the prior incident to the one you pointed out in Exodus 5,
you'll see that God had already said in verse 21 that He would harden Pharoah's heart.

And I love the way your loving God punishes people too.

clevvermind:
this is the reason why God hardens pharoah's heart.

17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh,
“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you,
and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
- Rom 9:17.

i don't think God punishes anyone unjustly though. one must have committed some sins.

Pr0ton:


That verse is just like saying I made Seun the owner of Nairaland (you know how popular his website is) I then hacked his website and made myself known as the hacker of such big website. How rational and matured would you deem me to be?

Pr0ton:
What should we do of the rest humans?
Since He knew he won't take them as children why make them run the risk of hell?
Why create them at all?

clevvermind:
yea. God wants to show his power in Egypt.
but through someone who does not regard him like pharoah.
he wants to prove to all Egyptians that he is God and beside him, there is no other. he does whatever he says.

Pr0ton:
BabaGnoni.

Symbols
I don't believe those superstitions how will I be able to provide one
Ok. Storm and earthquake represent His anger
If you remember Mount Sinai, lightening and thunder represented his voice
I think I've provided what you need to continue the discussion...

BabaGnoni:

^^^
This is rhetoric explaining God off, has having "a low self esteem"
and bent on a mission of disgracing Pharoah and making a wanton public display of the Egyptians!

clevvermind:
God wants to show his power in egypt
so that they would know that there is a God who is all powerful that is unknown to them than their magicians, witch, idols etc.
God always want to make himself known to such people that don't know him.
You know that some later believe in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite.
God doesn't do that to show off or boast his self-esteem.

Lalasticlala can help us move it to front page to get more views. This is an interesting topic.

In their perpetual quest to find discrepancies in the Bible, to undermine biblical ethics, and to find fault with the actions of God, skeptics have charged that God mistreated Pharaoh by overriding his free will and forcing him to resist the demand of Moses to allow the Israelites to exit Egypt. The skeptics focus on the verses about Pharaoh’s heart, demanding that the God of the Bible is an unjust, cruel being. Steve Wells, the well-known skeptic writer, said: “God begins the process of ‘hardening Pharaoh’s heart’ (see also Exodus 7:3,13, 9:12, 10:1, 20,27, 11:10, 14:4,, thus making it impossible for any of the plagues that God sends to have any beneficial effect. But according to 1 Samuel 6:6, God didn’t harden the Pharaoh’s heart; the Pharaoh did it himself” (Wells, 2001).........


Notice that in a very real sense, all four of the following statements are true: (1) God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (2) Moses hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (3) the words that Moses spoke hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (4) Pharaoh hardened his own heart. All four of these observations are accurate, depicting the same truth from different perspectives. In this sense, God is responsible for everything in the Universe, i.e., He has provided the occasion, the circumstances, and the environment in which all things (including people) operate. But He is not guilty of wrong in so doing. From a quick look at a simple Hebrew idiom, it is clear that God did not unjustly or directly harden Pharaoh’s heart. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), He does not act unjustly (Psalms 33:5), and He has always allowed humans to exercise their free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19). God, however, does use the wrong, stubborn decisions committed by rebellious sinners to further His causes (Isaiah 10:5-11). In the case of Pharaoh’s hardened heart, God can be charged with no injustice, and the Bible can be charged with no contradiction. Humans were created with free moral agency and are culpable for their own actions.


http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

adexsimply:
So, what happened to freewill?

spyroet:
yes ofcourse it is possible for God to harden people"s heart to fufill an ansignment,our mind is our soul and can be manipulated and control either for good or bad that why we must pray very hard n hav faith for we not to be control by evil being or spirit.but dwell in the holy ghost fire which can lead us in right direction.

clevvermind:
so God can harden someone's heart to fulfil a particular assignment whether positive or negative?

adexsimply:

What a merciful and loving God!
Wouldn't it have been easier if he had just used his omnipotent power to change Pharaoh's mind instead of allowing the carnage?

Hiswordxray:
Yes God can harden people heart but that is not an infringement on our free will. God can only harden the heart of those who had already harden their heart. God knows how weak people are and how they could easily run away from the problem they have put themselves into.
Pharaoh had already harden his heart towards God. And God being a righteous judge wanted to punish him severely but He knows that Pharaoh will easily give in if he sees just a little of God's judgment. So God had to harden his heart so that he could remain and continue in his evil until God had completely avenge His people by giving Pharaoh the fullness of the punishment he deserves.
So God's act of hardening Pharaoh's heart is His way of keeping Pharaoh in the prison until he had sever his time. Pharaoh had to remain in his evil works for God to have enough time to completely pour out His cup of wrath on him.

veraiyke:
Let m attempt. First such a question amounts to asking y is der a poor n a rich person? D poor n d rich r dey nt d making of same God? Again, doh God's foreknowledge is nt in question, yet man is a free moral agent. God knew d hrt condition of Pharaoh n so used it to show his strenght in Egypt. On a second tot Pharaoh was dominated by d Devil

BabaGnoni:


Why not let's thoroughly deal with this "why do God Sometimes Hardens People's Heart?" seemingly confusing and difficult question,
before darting from magicians, witch, idols etc on to "some later believe in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite" etc.

In the same vein, you do know that it was, those some, who later "believed" in God and went out of Egypt with the Israelite that instigated the Israelites to build and worship the golden calf

Making FP is overrated. Brace yourself for a market place and not just more views when/if it hits FP