freecocoa:
If there's anything I'm sure of, it is that even if there's a god anywhere, he isn't the one of the bible and all those other religions that support the idea of hell.

I am also certain I have nothing to lose by not believing in such gods.

Kai!! Can i buy you a drink?
the God of the Bible is sooooo clueless. I've said this a million times.
Im genuinely suprised when christians claim they have found "peace" "joy" "happiness" serving him.
And that he is "righteous" "just" ... like WTF.?

An2elect2:


Dear, i will be a fool and a miserable fellow if i worship the Sovereign God based on probability, even as high as 99.999% No way!

That thing that gives me absolute surety is beyond the maximum amount that your brain can carry. Yes. It will make no sense to you because your senses cannot be stretched farther than knowing a God exists at least.

I know that Jesus is the only true God not because i was indoctrinated or born into a catholic home, but because i have been blessed with THAT WISDOM that no man has except it be given to him/her.

I might give you 1000 reasons why the Christian God is the true God, but it will do you no good cos someone with more enticing words of men's wisdom might swindle you with what appeals to your limited senses.

Without THE HIDDEN WISDOM, you will always swim in uncertainty and nobody is comfortable in those troubling waters. Well, and of course, someone will scream hallucination! Lol. Do i blame you who have no eyes to see or ears to hear. When you are dead to God, every truth about God ceases to make sense to you. But O'well, i am being deluded, i forgot. How can something as true as this, be delusions? Only to the wise and prudent of this world of course! Lol

Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I
thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and
earth, that thou hast hid these things from the
wise and prudent, and hast revealed them
unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed
good in thy sight.

See? They always claim to have some intrinsic knowledge about the whole mysterious skydaddy.
They enjoy things they do not fully understand.
They also confidently back up their Skydaddy argument with some oporobious jagbajantical claim that makes zero sense- occasionally drawing references from the Bible.
I cant really explain it cos when i was a Christian myself i said similar stuff. I look back now in retrospect and i am amazed how stupid i must've sounded.

Antiparticle:
Thank you for saying this. Outside of work, I have a number of family projects I'm currently working on so I'm trying to take life one day at a time. Ideally, I first want to write a history book about my family (hopefully up to my great great grandparents) before embarking on other works.

The idea sounds really cool. I hope you will find the time.

Maybe it/they care actually, but not enough to let me know that it/they care.

How do you want him/her/they to let you know it?

I use that term loosely to refer to god(s) with whom a human can build a mutual relationship. Or god(s) that claim it/they want to have a relationship with individual humans.

What is the relationship supposed to look like?

Mindfulness:
How do you want him/her/they to let you know it?

Actually if god(s) exist and it/they care to let me know it, then it/they would know the ways best to reach me. I am actually now less curious about hypothetical god(s) than I am about aliens. Yet, I don't go around hoping for aliens to find a way to contact me.

So there's this common assumption that if god(s) exist, it/they'd want to contact us. Why would it/they? It is possible that the god(s) that exist (if it/they indeed exist) don't give a crap about us.

Mindfulness:
What is the relationship supposed to look like?

I'm not sure, though Christianity is supposedly about a relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit supposedly dwells in the heart of Christians and is supposed to communicate with them and tell them things. Obviously, I think this is all a delusory scam (that I for a long time bought into).

Antiparticle:
Actually if god(s) exist and it/they care to let me know it, then it/they would know the ways best to reach me. I am actually now less curious about hypothetical god(s) than I am about aliens. Yet, I don't go around hoping for aliens to find a way to contact me.

So there's this common assumption that if god(s) exist, it/they'd want to contact us. Why would it/they? It is possible that the god(s) that exist (if it/they indeed exist) don't give a crap about us.

How would you want God to contact you?

I'm not sure, though Christianity is supposedly about a relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit supposedly dwells in the heart of Christians and is supposed to communicate with them and tell them things. Obviously, I think this is all a delusory scam (that I for a long time bought into).

I don't think so. Pay attention to your breathing. This is what I call spirit.

@Antiparticle.
There is talent in your writing. Use it NOW.
However, you need to reflect again on the question of God.

I am shocked that you say that you don't understand the word "spiritual"

Whats the problem kind sir?

DeepSight:
Excellent brother ^^^ Will revert later in the day. Few thoughts on yours.
Many thanks for the time.

There was nothing excellent about antiparticle 's response to your post . Its like giving a carnivorous animal flesh to eat and then praise it for eating . A much better question would have been : Why does he think a theist/deist is certain about the existence of God ?

keenn:
As regards the surety for the existence of a creator, I am not certain.

Nevertheless, is it not probable to think there is or was once a God?

What if the whole distraction , world event, wars, human suffering, illogical religious ideas...that instigated inquisition for skepticism was all a detour?

That said, there is a trend I have noticeD in my life that I would like to share with u.

Ever since I have stopped praying or hoping for God intervention in my life...that means, planning my life as if it all depends solely on my actions and inactions, I have made progress.

I make everyday worth it...it could be my last, I try to help the weak even at my detriment as much as I can knowing no help comes from above.

If there is a God, people are in pains in hospital. Pls help them

how do you come by the power you use to help urself as well as others

waldigit:

how do you come by the power you use to help urself as well as others

Just the way Aldoph hitler came by his power

keenn:



Just the way Aldoph hitler came by his power

Hitler's power is from the devil, remember he was tagged antiChrist in Nostradamus prophecy. So then you see you still need help no matter how great you perceive yourself to be.

waldigit:


Hitler's power is from the devil, remember he was tagged antiChrist in Nostradamus prophecy. So then you see you still need help no matter how great you perceive yourself to be.

Suddenly, over 6million jews were killed, this excludes those with physical challenges, contrary religion believers, pacifist...

If the devil can at will, cause such disastrous genocide- world-over without a creator that cares interference that claims omni-omni then that's unfair.

Nevertheless, the justification of right and wrong is and should not be attributed to supernatural.

Its just human nature

keenn:



Suddenly, over 6million jews were killed, this excludes those with physical challenges, contrary religion believers, pacifist...

If the devil can at will, cause such disastrous genocide- world-over without a creator that cares interference that claims omni-omni then that's unfair.

Nevertheless, the justification of right and wrong is and should not be attributed to supernatural.

Its just human nature

That I tell you is the mystery of the Gospel. Devil has been given power to kill, steal and destroy within the framework of Gods Purpose on earth.

keenn:



Suddenly, over 6million jews were killed, this excludes those with physical challenges, contrary religion believers, pacifist...

If the devil can at will, cause such disastrous genocide- world-over without a creator that cares interference that claims omni-omni then that's unfair.

Nevertheless, the justification of right and wrong is and should not be attributed to supernatural.

Its just human nature

That I tell you is the mystery of the Gospel. Devil has been given power to kill, steal and destroy within the framework of Gods Purpose on earth.
Your lovely world is its way to trash bin. Devil is only assisting to quicken the process.
But there is hope on Jesus Christ, if only you give it a try.

God is great and powerful he reigns. Are you so blind that you can not even see the brightest light, at least your skin should feel it and know that he exist, the miracles, the signs, the wonders, what do you say about that?

God exist and he lives in me.

Go to the father he forgives and saves.

waldigit:

That I tell you is the mystery of the Gospel. Devil has been given power to kill, steal and destroy within the framework of Gods Purpose on earth.
Your lovely world is its way to trash bin. Devil is only assisting to quicken the process.
But there is hope on Jesus Christ, if only you give it a try.

'...within the framework of Gods purpose?'

That's preposterous.

keenn:



'...within the framework of Gods purpose?'

That's preposterous.

It doesnt have to be. That is why we have not all been consumed. That is also why you hear about what they call MIRACLE. That is why science is given some degree of success. That is why Christ was made manifest

waldigit:


It doesnt have to be. That is why we have not all been consumed. That is also why you hear about what they call MIRACLE. That is why science is given some degree of success. That is why Christ was made manifest

We have not been consume would mean? If it means been alive, then that I disagree. The continuation of live as we live it is base on cheer chance and not grace.
If u think its by grace- which the biblical account claim is sufficient why not walk eye close across a busy road.

That's why we all hear about miracles, because you and I havnt seen one- first hand miracle

Yes, science is mans intervention.

keenn:



We have not been consume would mean? If it means been alive, then that I disagree. The continuation of live as we live it is base on cheer chance and not grace.
If u think its by grace- which the biblical account claim is sufficient why not walk eye close across a busy road.

That's why we all hear about miracles, because you and I havnt seen one- first hand miracle

Yes, science is mans intervention.

But many who have two eyes perfectly working for them have been knocked down by moving vehicle. Was that chioce or luck

keenn:



We have not been consume would mean? If it means been alive, then that I disagree. The continuation of live as we live it is base on cheer chance and not grace.
If u think its by grace- which the biblical account claim is sufficient why not walk eye close across a busy road.

That's why we all hear about miracles, because you and I havnt seen one- first hand miracle

Yes, science is mans intervention.

But many who have two eyes perfectly working for them have been knocked down by moving vehicle. Was that choice or luck

waldigit:


But many who have two eyes perfectly working for them have been knocked down by moving vehicle. Was that choice or luck

U can name it anything, but it aint lack of grace

dalaman:


Davidylan is on record here to have said that christianity is purely a faith based religion that has nothing to do with logic and reason, he sometimes openly states his doubt for some of the things written inside the bible, most atheist have commended his honesty and have openly stated that he is the most honest christian they know here on NL. He agrees that christianity and science have nothing in common and that christianity should be accepted based purely on faith, he has said that many times here.

That is a big lie!!!!

He has always said that as a holder of a doctorate in molecular biology, science has proven to be mor e on the side of creationists than atheists think.

Just because he has deactivated doesn't mean you should lie.

blank:


That is a big lie!!!!

He has always said that as a holder of a doctorate in molecular biology, science has proven to be mor e on the side of creationists than atheists think.

Just because he has deactivated doesn't mean you should lie.

Every body that lmow davidylan knows his position. He jas clearly stated his doubts and has also clearly stated that the bible os to be accepted purely on faith. Ask people like logicboy and plaetton that have debated him over the years.

dalaman:


Every body that lmow davidylan knows his position. He jas clearly stated his doubts and has also clearly stated that the bible os to be accepted purely on faith. Ask people like logicboy and plaetton that have debated him over the years.

I have followed him over the years and i know that is not his position.

It shows that people only hear what they want to hear.

blank:


I have followed him over the years and i know that is not his position.

It shows that people only hear what they want to hear.

He has deactivated his account else I would have provided you with direct quotes from him.

blank:


I have followed him over the years and i know that is not his position.

It shows that people only hear what they want to hear.

That is his position.
And I respect him for that.

blank:


That is a big lie!!!!

He has always said that as a holder of a doctorate in molecular biology, science has proven to be mor e on the side of creationists than atheists think.

Just because he has deactivated doesn't mean you should lie.

It is not a lie.
He said it during one of our numerous debates.

plaetton:


It is not a lie.
He said it during one of our numerous debates.

And i am saying you misunderstood him. Hearing only what you wanted to hear.

The Bible does not sound logical to human reasoning but you need the Holy Spirit to understand that it makes sense from a logical perspective.

blank:


And i am saying you misunderstood him. Hearing only what you wanted to hear.

The Bible does not sound logical to human reasoning but you need the Holy Spirit to understand that it makes sense from a logical perspective.

This is what I find very troubling and perplexing about religio-heads.

You were not witness to an event that happened right here in this public forum.
I was .

Now, due to pride or cognitive dissonance, you are now telling us, insulting us, that we didn't read what we read, a post I assume you never read.

What king of complex ignorance and arrogance is this.

plaetton:


This is what I find very troubling and perplexing about religio-heads.

You were not witness to an event that happened right here in this public forum.
I was .

Now, due to pride or cognitive dissonance, you are now telling us, insulting us, that we didn't read what we read, a post I assume you never read.

What king of complex ignorance and arrogance is this.

I am sorry to have insulted you but i did read all of it. That i don't comment in religion section doesn't mean that i don't read it.

@dalaman plaetton and blank

From Davidylan :

1. I am actually a scientist and have actually done many of the experiments cited here... which is why i laughed when davien claimed that proteins were the building blocks of life. We buy proteins off the shelf all the time, without DNA you do not have a viable cell even if you dumped all the protein you can get into it. But of course, that is the caliber of "scientists" here that we have to deal with.

2. To say the universe is a cocktail of natural mechanisms belies the point - so why is life seeded on earth only but not, say Mars?

3. I believe in God, i believe in science - infact that is my profession, however i dont believe in pseudo-science (which is basically all i have read here from the likes of davien and others).

At this point... i should be going to have some fun... please let me know when you guys have come up with a coherent scientific answer for why you exist other than the typical "i dont know"... i'm really interested. While you're at it, can you scientifically explain why there is no life on Mars even though most of the same physical laws here are also applicable there? Just curious... i'd like to move there sometime.

and oh... while you're searching wikipedia, please stop saying "i dont know" then post reams of links/youtube videos for us to watch. "I am not intelligent enough to understand any of the science i spout" would be a more honest answer.

Oh please stop with the nonsensical whining. Its like you're not capable of reading past your mental block. I just explained at least 3 times that the idea behind ID is firmly rooted in the science...

1. that the statistical probability of random chance creating life is close to zero...
2. that the degree of biological complexity is far beyond anything science can ever explain to have occurred purely by chance...

Again, as i said earlier, you have no credibility to disavow one hypothesis when you have no alternative hypothesis. You cant say 2+2 is not equal to 4 and then say "but i have no idea what it could be". On what basis then do you think 4 is the wrong answer? Just because...? Its hilarious when you say ID has no proof to assert its claims when you admit that science has no claims at all!

Actually i beg to disagree... there is no god of the gaps argument (unless when used by those who have no answers and have to resort to mockery)... what we have is a reasoned scientific basis for why nature does not explain the origin of life. Science provides no cogent answers for how life originated. Science provides no valid or logical hypothesis as to how life may have originated. Infact science still has no clue how to create the basic building block of life - the DNA... The very science of life and the cell suggests to us that it could not simply be a product of random chance (which is what you propose and is just statistically impossible)... so how on earth is it a god of the gaps argument? Or you're simply using big words you learnt somewhere? Just as an exercise... try doing this - if the universe is a cocktail of natural mechanisms, what is the statistical probability that life will be seeded on earth alone? That is basic mathematics... not god of the gaps...

"Science is still researching" is no answer at all... it is infact a speculative guess, a fig leaf for ignorance, perpetuated by people who have no clue since they cannot point to the scientific labs doing the searching they claim in the first place. When i get the chance, i read through the latest titles on the most prestigious scientific journals, i cant find any that is still doing the "searching" you claim.

What is telling is that you make absolutely no attempt to think about the 4 issues UyiIredia raised. Those are SCIENTIFIC QUESTIONS not simply ID questions. It is easy to dismiss his points simply because you dont like the title of the website, but i think what you're doing is really trying to dodge the real issues by simply calling them ID.

For example... if there was no intelligent design behind the creation of life and we are simply a product of chance... then how do we explain the intricate and complex nature of the way the cell processes information? How do we explain genetic convergence and the issue of "junk DNA"? These are legitimate science questions... you can start by tackling them rather than playing musical chairs while claiming to be all about science.

blank:


I am sorry to have insulted you but i did read all of it. That i don't comment in religion section doesn't mean that i don't read it.

If you did read it, then kindly post it here to shame us.

In fact, davidylan wrote many things, Amongst them, that no right thinking person should take most of the fables in the bible seriously.

He said that as a Christian, however, he takes them on faith alone.

keenn:
As regards the surety for the existence of a creator, I am not certain.

Nevertheless, is it not probable to think there is or was once a God?

What if the whole distraction , world event, wars, human suffering, illogical religious ideas...that instigated inquisition for skepticism was all a detour?

That said, there is a trend I have noticeD in my life that I would like to share with u.

Ever since I have stopped praying or hoping for God intervention in my life...that means, planning my life as if it all depends solely on my actions and inactions, I have made progress.

I make everyday worth it...it could be my last, I try to help the weak even at my detriment as much as I can knowing no help comes from above.

If there is a God, people are in pains in hospital. Pls help them

Just because things work for you as an atheist doesn't justify atheism. The Bible says:

Proverbs 14:23 In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury.

So if you work you will chop.

As for evil it doesn't remove the fact that God exists no less than Hitler being evil doesn't make him imaginary.

Evil FROM GOD stands contrary to God's goodness. The smart thing to do would be to surrender just as you already do to the physical world. When fire cooks your food you enjoy it. If it burns you, you dislike it. Do you stop using fire since it burns ? Obviously not. So why behave differently with God ? Because He is a person ? That's ill-thought. People do good and bad to you all the time, you parents for instance. Do you hate them for that no. Don't be twisted by mockery who will have you focus only on God's malevolence. His benevolence far outweighs that the life, death and rebirth of Christ seals that and
the presence of free-will shows it.