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| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by plappville(f): 2:17pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: I never said angels created man. I know that when God said let us. Sure the Angels were among the "us" you said the 3 were present. So the holy spirit to is a person to you?
Is the holy spirit a person? Where was Lucifer during this period? Is he among the " let Us? Several OT made us know That God/Yahweh usually send an Angel to follow the Israelites wen they were in the wilderness. This is not an ordinary Angel. Because Gods name was in Him. The New Testament made it clear that. That very Angel was Christ. What do you have to say about this? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by plappville(f): 2:38pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog:One as in?
Was that not an intelligent question? It seems you finds it difficult to answer. Why do men complicate what Jesus made easy for us? Please answer him. I too would like to know.
Christ didn't want you to over stress your brain to make someone understand him and His Father's relationship. You are the one adding so much to this and making it look like the pagan god system. Hear oh Israel the lord our God.........is [size=16pt]1[/size] not Three making 1. You see, if an Atheist want to accept Christ. Your trinity theory will Mk him confused. Simplicity is the gospel of the Good news. Its so exasperating discussing issues like this with atheists and non - Christians . True talk. But it's very easy to tell Atheists how Jesus love them and how God sent him to come and die for thier sins. Jesus was a messanger/prophet, son of Yahweh. the Messiah. Just a the OT TOLD us. And Chris also confirmed these in the NT. Why adding too much signification...  |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by plappville(f): 3:21pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
malvisguy212: My broda, Will you blame anyone for this?The Bible itself never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” and the bible never said the Messiah will be God. God told Moses that He will send a prophet like Him. If you say Jesus is God, then Moses is also God? Did God later change his mind to come in human form.Why should God come by himself when He has always send down prophets.  If you were a Jew that believed your God cannot be seems and Someone came and starts telling you mystery to making you believe, God can be seen, can die, Can be tempted. Etc. Sounding contradictory to what you believed. Will you easily accept/believe such? If God had wanted man to know He is Jesus, I think He would have done it. Just my point anyway..  1 Like |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by plappville(f): 3:24pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Richirich713: My brother, the thing is not easy for them to explain na. @OLaagbo said. It's beyond man understanding..  Yet they teach it.. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Richirich713: 3:26pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
plappville: Still not telling us who the "us" is. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Richirich713: 3:31pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Who is the us? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by KingEbukasBlog(m): 3:39pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
plappville: That God exists as three beings - The Father , The Son ,The Holy Spirit - and they are one .
You are a christian and what do you believe in then ? Who is Jesus ? How did Jesus come into being ? You see, if an Atheist want to accept Christ. Your trinity theory will Mk him confused. Simplicity is the gospel of the Good news. Trinity is not a theory , its is fact True talk. But it's very easy to tell Atheists how Jesus love them and how God sent him to come and die for thier sins. Jesus was a messanger/prophet, son of Yahweh. the Messiah. Just a the OT TOLD us. And Chris also confirmed these in the NT. Why adding too much signification... So How different is your Jesus to mine ? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 4:53pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
@ kingEbukasBlog After going through ur answer, I now understood why you did not quote the questions I asked you, I will quote it again for you and see if ur response answered the question asked. 1. The Father and Jesus are living as different entities/beings in Heaven I asked you  1)does the father and Jesus exist as 2 different persons in heaven or as one person? .Can you see that you have refused to answer the question? A person is a being, such as a human, that has certain capacities or attributes constituting personhood . (excerps from wikipedia) So are your 3 beings not persons.? Person: 1. A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; salesperson. See Usage Note at chairman. 2. An individual of specified character: a person of importance. 3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self. 4. The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person. 5. Physique and general appearance. 6. Law A human, corporation, organization, partnership, association, or other entity deemed or construed to be governed by a particular law. 7. Christianity Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them. Does the father and jesus not fufill the definition? Is jesus a person or not? Is the father a person or not? If you feel the father and jesus are not persons, please tell us in plain English with a "yes" . And if you feel they are persons, then pls answer the question as it was asked. You have not answered question 1. 2. God's nature -purity , love, holiness, righteousness ,I asked you : (2)what is "god nature" and how do we understand ur views with what is said in 2 peter1:4 and the statement that "god is a spirit".? You refused to provide scriptures that supports ur view on god- nature. By ur definition of god nature, we can assume that any being that has these things is god right? So pls show us with the scriptures where these 3 beings possess these nature you posted. Now if your view of god nature is true, then according to 1 peter 1:4 those who partake in the divine nature will also become god, able to create and be omnipresence right? If I'm wrong , then use ur explanation of god nature to explain 1 peter 1:4. If you do not do so, then ur whole explanation is false.(I did not ask you to quote but to explain that scripture in line with god nature.) You refuse to add "god is a spirit". 3. Yes If you cannot show me where the holy spirit said "I am", it means you are lying with ur scenario. You are using false words to explain ur view. So claiming the the 3 said "I am to signify their godship is false!. I asked the question 3) Does the use of the statement "I am" signify that that person is god?You said yes. 2 samuel 2:20 :-Then Abner looked behind him, and said, Art thou Asahel? And he answered, I am.. By ur answer, the person pursuing Abner is also your god,probably the 4th one right? John 9:9 :-Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he. Is this person also god ? If the two above are not god , then ur answer is false!.it is just an attempt to find a similarity between god and jesus' statements. Before you reply on these, please to a research on the Greek and hebrew word that was translated as "i am" in those verses . 4. Any form . Even the Holy Spirit rested as a dove on A. What is the form(s) that these 3 entities exist in, and Use scripture to show their forms pls. Any form? , the bible says, "jesus, although he was in gods form". Is that gods form any form? If its not any form, then what form is that,? Can you list at least two forms of those gods form? After listing them, we shall see if any other being can assume such forms, if we find out that other beings can take up such forms, then by ur explanations, it means they are god. Pls list two forms from any forms you know for the father, son and holy spirit, then we can know if the "form of god" is just the preserve of those 3 beings alone. You did not use scripture to show the form(s) of the father and jesus. Lastly , what is the present form of the 3 beings. 5. John 17:21Can you see the bold, it did not say "you in christ" or "we in Christ" . It said "one in us". If jesus and the father being "one" means they are both god and equal, that they shared the god nature, then being one in them means we(the christians that will fufill that prayer) will also have all the qualities that that one has, the god nature that they shared, the ability to be omnipresence and create, and be god. If these is wrong, then jesus being one with god to mean jesus is equal to god and is god is a totally false and biased analogy,that being one is totally different from being equal. cus those christians are expected to be one in them. Can you see how ur explanation falls short of truth. 2 Corinthians 5:17But they are not god, so being "one with god" does not mean that that person is god!. Another verse to buttress the point I madeAre you in Christ, have you attained perfection ? Matthew that wrote that verse, was he perfect he before he died? If being in Christ does not bring perfection while on earth, then you have a wrong understanding of Matt 5:48. Moreover the verse did not say "one in us " or "one in god". Have you see that sharing does not mean equality. This question requires answers too :Does each of the trinity in man exist independently? If so, do they have different minds and will? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 5:04pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: Therefore ur belief is that god is one entity, existing as/in 3 entities.? If I'm right, jesus is not god , but god is jesus as jesus cannot be god without the other two entities. , jesus is an entity of god, or part of the entity of god . That jesus entity is distinct and unique and its characters cannot be perfomed or replaced by the other sub-entities. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by KingEbukasBlog(m): 5:11pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
@dolphinheart --- this guy why do you keep asking me the same thing all over again . Honestly I cannot repeat myself again . You can simply walk into a church and keep asking the Pastor the same question in different ways .Cheers 3 Likes 4 Shares |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 5:16pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
malvisguy212: You fail to explain the place where it is said "he emptied himself" and "he became flesh. Ur explanation means that god duped Satan, that Satan is right afterall that man cannot stay perfect, cus this jesus has a dual nature, and his god nature helped him in certain areas. It is you that need to read the scriptures again. When the disciples approached him they asked him a godly question, cus he and the disciples know that his human nature cannot answer that question. Do you remember jesus answer to them? Maybe his godly nature has played away that time and his human nature now lied that even his godly nature does not know the answer. Thought you said his godly nature is all knowing . By the way, what happened to his godly nature when he died? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 5:33pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
FrancisTony:The verse you quoted does not say anything about nature, talkless of dual nature while jesus was on earth. Moreover , that verse was talking about 2 persons. What's the essence of Holy spirit giving Matthew, Mark, Luke and John an inspiration to pen it down if He never intended to anyone from learning it?Holy spirit gave them the inspiration to write it down, not to teach them how to pray, but for us to learn that jesus is fully obedient to his god, which is his father in heaven , even till death, and not the one you claim is in him. God nature never fled. But he was not not there to answer the question na. Okay, I used that scenario though it doesn't fit in. Have you heard of hypnosis?So when his god nature wants to perform, it hypnotises his human nature! BROS , mo ju idi fun yin! |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 5:43pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: I keep on asking cus I did not ask uou about entitities/beings, I asked you about persons! If you don't believe that jesus and the father are persons, let us know. The federal, state and local government explanation you use totally destroys ur view on equality and power. Dnt use that explanation again! . |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by KingEbukasBlog(m): 5:51pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
dolphinheart: I've told you why I dont want to use "persons" to refer to or describe the trinity . If you keep insisting , its your business The federal, state and local government explanation you use totally destroys ur view on equality and power. Dnt use that explanation again! . I used it to explain how one can exist as three and play different roles and not that I used it to explain having the equality and same power/authority by the three |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 6:10pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Is jesus the same person as the father? If not, the use of that verse to claim that god came to earth is wrong and full of holes. You say god came down as an incanate, yet claim that that incanate has always been in existence. Did that incanate exist as the father before or as a seperate entity with its own will and mind? 1 Like |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 6:16pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: Cus you did not answer and some answers are full of holes. Quote the question I asked you so that everyone can see that you refuse to answer or provide answers that the question did not ask you. I quoted ur answers alonside the questions I asked, so that you, me, and everyone on these thread can see that ur answers are either false, wrong, does not have scriptural support, goes contrary to what the scripture says or are just plain lies. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by dolphinheart(m): 6:31pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: Bro, I did not ask about trinity, I asked about jesus and the father. Is jesus a person? Is the father a person ? If they are persons , then u re obligated to use "person" when talking about them. And if they are not, let us know! I used it to explain how one can exist as three and play different roles and not that I used it to explain having the equality and same power/authority by the threeYou are factionalizing ur explanation of trinity. Part of ur explanation proves equality to be wrong and I'm using your own explanation to prove to you that jesus does not share equality with the father, you own explanation o!. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by ValerianSteel(m): 7:00pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
It's confusing at times,most Christian leaders make it seem to you like the Harry Potter Movie where Voldermort put his many lives in different places and different people. Like each life stands as Voldermort himself in all expressions,the darkness,the magic.Killing one life doesn't stop Voldermort from existing with all his powers still intact,but taking all lifes was the end of Voldermort.Voldermort was Voldermort in each carrier that had his different lives. Maybe just maybe that's how the trinity also works. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Pr0ton: 7:05pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: I wonder why people find this particular part unbelieveable. What was your complex you when you originated in the womb? A mini-complex you or a singled-celled? No I meant like we have homoerectus , homo habilis etc for man , so what's the evolutionary line for monkeys and apes ? An oligocence primate, Aegyptopithecus. Which is also extinct. Lol ... let's thread carefully . Ever heard of an uncaused cause ? I have. How do you know such exists? And how was it an uncaused cause that caused the Big Bang and not something different? Has life coming forth from non living been replicated in the labs? At least one basic building block of life amino acids can be produced from inorganic compound, as proven in Milley-Urey's experiment. Such, and more not known yet, could have happened million years ago where the earth's atmospheric condition mostly allowed than now all 'subconsciously' working to the evolution of life. Hebrew -English Translation ? Yeah? Just got the mention this evening, after arriving from work. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Pr0ton: 7:08pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
plappville: Which I think is what we are saying. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by SisterSister(f): 9:28pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
Rilwayne001: This is a very good illustration. I would like to add, it takes spiritual eyes to see spiritual things. If one is spiritually dead, there is no way to gain proper understanding regarding the trinity. Once one accepts spiritual life through Jesus Christ, then they will be able to see spiritually. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Pr0ton: 9:34pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
SisterSister: Now this sounds sensible.. An all-knowing God wrote down the ways/steps to salvation in a book... and then allows only those with spiritual eyes the ability to see and get saved... and these people with spiritual eyes are the Christians... logically, in that way, none can be saved, and there are no Christians in reality. Just see how sensible you post is. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Rilwayne001: 9:39pm On Nov 02, 2015 |
SisterSister: You obviously, was unable to decode my illustration.Okay, let me give you another one. [img]http://manyprophetsonemessage.files./2014/11/doctrine-trinity.png[/img] What ya say? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by SisterSister(f): 1:47am On Nov 03, 2015 |
Rilwayne001: I missed it totally...for some reason the first illustration didn't copy?? ***The Messiah by nature is God Elijah and the prophet by nature are human The Messiah, Elijah and the prophet is not one human. The Messiah, Elijah and the prophet are not three humans. Only Elijah and the prophet are human. The Messiah is God who took on humanity. ***The Heavenly Father by nature is God Jesus the Son is by nature God The Holy Spirit by nature is God The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is one God only The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not three gods |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by SisterSister(f): 2:02am On Nov 03, 2015 |
How about looking at it like this? Christians believe humans are made in the image of God. The one God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mind, body and spirit = one person Our mind is every much a part of us but is separate Our body is a part of us but separate Our spirit is a part of us but separate Yet, still we are only one person 1 Like |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by SisterSister(f): 2:32am On Nov 03, 2015 |
Pr0ton: Let's say you had mighty weapons to pass on, would you give them to someone you could trust to use them properly or would you give them to someone who would abuse and misuse them? Yes, Almighty God gave us the way to salvation and it is free to everyone who wants and accepts it. Each of us has to choose whether or not to accept spiritual life that comes through accepting Jesus Christ. (There is more to this) After accepting Jesus, one then becomes a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ. A problem is without spiritual life, a person would naturally abuse and misuse so much meant for good against their neighbor to destroy. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Jessicha(f): 8:18am On Nov 03, 2015 |
SisterSister: Defending your faith doesnt mean you should forget basic english sister . @ underlined , how dare you use the word "Only" that refer to single , sole person to describe three persons ? |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Jessicha(f): 8:35am On Nov 03, 2015 |
SisterSister: You are complicating things for yourself . If image of God means mind + body + spirit , then God is one person . God has a mind [1Cor 2:16] God have a spiritual body [1Cor 15:40,44] God have spirit [gen 6:3] Your analogy then proves God is one person , or you are totally using the wrong illustration. Note : the trinity claim the spirit of God is a totally different person . Which is proved false by your human analogy , is our spirit a different person ? No . God said " My spirit" Genesis 6:3 , Which Proves its not a separate person just like in humans , who re his image . 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by kaboraa: 10:54am On Nov 03, 2015 |
This theory of the Trinity is very damaging. First of all there is no much evidence in the Bible for it. Even when Jesus was called good he said Only God was good. Furthermore, there are many reasons why I will side with the Jews who think Christianity is pagan. Why would God promise the Israelites that a Messiah who is like Moses will come and restore the Kingdom of Israel when He himself was going to come. He should have told the Israelites clearly because He said that we should judge a prophecy if it came exactly as he said it would. If this was not clearly spelt out to the Israelite how can they be held responsible for being cautious not to believe anyone when they were going by what God had told them. How would Christians feel if the second coming of Jesus comes in a way we least expect and then we are told that we are wasted because we did not accept him. I mean c'mon. Imagine my brother at home telling me he is the second coming of Christ. No matter the miracles he does I would not believe HIM because scripture has told us how Christ is coming and that we shall be wary of angels of darkness posing as angels of light. Now imagine if it was true that my brother was the second coming of Christ, do you not see how ridiculous it is when I am blamed that I rejected Christ. C'mon guys. There is so much confusion in Christianity because many things don't add up. God created the world millions of years ago, with all the wars suffering and diseases, decided to come down at a time there was no video camera and not clearly telling even His selected nation about it and then decides that those who did not believe Him are all going to burn in eternity for HELL because they did not believe HIM. C'Mooon!! I believe very much in Jesus but I believe most of his teachings were practical simple living a life of love and not even about a new religion. Christians believe salvation belongs to those who believe in the Name of Jesus and accept him that he came to die for their sins. However this is not clearly taught as Salvation. Salvation belongs to those who believe in HIM. And he clearly stated that those who believe in HIM are those who obey the words he taught. And it is summed that all He talked about was less religion and commandments and living for love. If your life is not lived by love you don't have salvation. Period. 4 Likes 3 Shares |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Pr0ton: 11:01am On Nov 03, 2015 |
SisterSister: When people are referred to by name they are referred in whole. Just as it's wrong in logic and reality to call a proton an atom so also it's empty to call Paul's hand Paul. You don't separately call his hand by his name, you call his whole being, which may include your body, mind and soul, by his name, Paul. Paul's spirit can't be called Paul separately, but the spirit of Paul. While Paul as a person can possess a kind of spirit that has a name, the spirit is never Paul as a person, but one of the whole constituent of Paul; body, mind and spirit. When Paul's body possesses another spirit he ceases to be Paul as a person logically and in reality. He then becomes the person of that spirit. Let's take Paul of the Bible as example. In one of his letters, in the last verses of Galatians 2, he says if the spirit of Christ lives in him then it's no longer him that lives but Christ living in his body, so that logically and in reality he becomes righteous (as Christ is) before God. Where then is Paul's spirit? The answer is found in a verse in Col 3 where he says 'our life is hidden in Christ in heaven'. Paul's person in his body is no longer Paul but Jesus, and that's why he is justified before God. Paul technically ceases to exist when his spirit is staying separately, but comes into existence when it possesses a body, at least in our world. Here is the point... for a person to exist and be referred to as a person it NECESSARILY needs a body, mind and spirit. AND ONE OF THESE COMPONENT CAN NOT EXIST SEPARATELY AND STILL RETAIN THE QUALITIES OF A PERSON. For example, THE MIND CEASES TO EXIST WITHOUT A BODY. A SPIRIT IS NOT A PERSON WITHOUT A BEING/BODY. A BODY IS USELESS WITHOUT A SPIRIT AND MIND. This explanation therefore proves the anology of a person's body, spirit and mind inconsistent with the nature of the Trinity. The three Godheads are said to be able to exists alone and still retain the qualities of a God, consequently making them three separated Gods. It doesn't follow the equation of a person, i.e Person = body + spirit + soul but GOD = Yahwew = Jesus = Holy Spirit where every entity is a God.. hence when they stay separate they become Gods |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Pr0ton: 11:14am On Nov 03, 2015 |
SisterSister: And one accepts spiritual life through reading the Bible, right? And you also said only those with spiritual eyes can read the Bible... this is still sensible. |
| Re: See How This Equation And Analogy Prove The Idea Of The Trinity Wrong by Nobody: 11:19am On Nov 03, 2015 |
@pr0ton nice job! 1 Like |
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