rahymat:
enough of these theories if God doesnt exist life would have gone astray their wont be churches nd mosques rather there would be clubs prayers too wont get answers without God ive seen women without wombs get pregnant after praying to God even there are lot of mysterious things happening on dis earth like a man who went to the space hearing the call for prayer.life without God is just like living with emptiness

Hajiya Rahymat, so it is the presence of churches and mosques that justifies the existence of God, ko? Without the existence of these two social institutions, lives would've gone the Hobbessian way? Were the various African societies astray before they met the colonial religions of Christianity and Islam? As for getting pregnant without a womb ..., I take it you believe artificial insemination too proves the existence of God, shay?

leahcimzil:
i've niticed something bout all these 'God' arguements, at the end of the day, they all amount to nothing and none is any wiser. Instead of stupidly arguing over something that has little or no effect in yur lives, go and make money!. I know for sure that Bill gate or Dangote can't be bothered about something like this. Bunch of jobless people claiming intellectual mtchew who e epp

sorry oh, eh you wey dey talk you don make money? You get money reach seun? If you no get money reach seun you sef join put for that nonsense wey you type up there.

If Bill Gates and Dnagote aren't intellectuals you think they'll be billionaires now? Mtscheew.

SensaGreene:
Well in my opinion, God created time and stepped out of it, so that He can control time!

I believe God exists and I believe in His son Jesus christ our Lord. The thing about believing in God is, when you pass on and realise there is no God, no wahala. On the other hand, when you realise there is a God and you never believed in Him and His Son... YOU'RE SCREWED.

What if you were born and bred in Saudi Arabia where 99 are muslims,are you screwed too? Is it your fault to be born where you don't get informed about your Christ?.

There are lots of religions in the world and the way you see christianity as the best thing is the way they see theirs too,if you give evidences as to why christianity is the way,they'll also give you their reasons and evidences why theirs is the best. What do you have to say?

winner01:
Introduction

How did God get here?
Richard Dawkins, among other atheists, thinks he has the ultimate proof that God doesn't exist. If God created a complex universe, wouldn't it take an even more complex entity to have created God? However, such logic assumes that time has always existed, rather than being merely a construct of this universe.




Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God (Elohim) to whom we are accountable had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is how did the first god get here? This problem of infinite regression invalidates such religions. Christianity claims that God has always existed. Is this idea even possible? Does science address such issues?


Christianity's answer
Christianity answers the question of who made God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tell us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:

"No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)"

The idea that God created time, along with the physical universe, is not just some wacky modern Christian interpretation of the Bible. Justin Martyr, a second century Christian apologist, in his Hortatory Address to the Greeks, said that Plato got the idea that time was created along with the universe from Moses:

"And from what source did Plato draw the information that time was created along with the heavens? For he wrote thus: 'Time, accordingly, was created along with the heavens; in order that, coming into being together, they might also be together dissolved, if ever their dissolution should take place.' Had he not learned this from the divine history of Moses?"


God exists in timeless eternity
How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.


God exists in multiple dimensions of time
The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.


Why can't the universe be eternal?
The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters. Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.


What does science say about time?
When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang). In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.



Conclusion
God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).


Article by RICH DEEM


source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/who_created_god.html

STUPID YOU FIRST ASK WHO IMPREGNATED YOUR MOTHER.

greggng:
That is why he called God. He created himself. I hope this answers ur question. Don't get into metaphysical world so that u don't regret ur existence on earth

haaaa! How can God create himself?

Why are you guys faster than science, allow science to grow, I believe as we grow there will be unity of faith between science and religion.

It may sound funny but that's true.

ifenes:


He meant the christian idea of a God. God is a phenomenon passed dowm from Egypt and then Mithra before embraced by Christianity. Unknown to christians, it is the worship of the Anunaki who enslaved humans at some point due to their advance knowledge and technology. The universe was never created but is pure imagination.





Make it easy for yourself. Life is pure imagination. We are all one particle experiencing different realities,hence the endless tales of gods and how they were formed. Nothing is real!




The mind(thought) created matter. And the God particle is experiencing itself in multiple forms. The heavens actually meant other earth like illusions. This is why it is said the mind is eternal. Your mind and my mind never sleeps,it is impossible.



The mind,pure energy that is constant.



The mind


Your Mind(god) And Your Avater(jesus,body)!

I perceive Eckankar.. The reLigion of Light and Sound of God herE..

LOL @ all these NEPA bill physicists who never took a course in general relativity or read a book on astronomy but come here to spew rubbish with the same confidence that a mad man details his own impossible version of reality... because they've been reading pseudo-scientific trash on the internet e.g "mind is pure energy", "God exists outside time", "lizard people and Illuminati", "intelligent design" etc.

I wonder when we'll dump all these irrelevant and unscientific arguments and focus on proper STEM education and research leading to lasting development in our nation.

parrotibaba:
haaaa! How can God create himself?

It is believed that as we grow in our study of quantum mechanics we will discover that most of the things we believe now is even wrong. they are questions we still don't have answers to now but that does not mean that we won't have answers to it in the nearest future.

In physics something can come out of nothing, infact in nuclear chain reaction, we have seen things create themselves. Does it answer your question??

Let's just be patient with time and science.

following na winner he the make sense

joseph1832:
sorry oh, eh you wey dey talk you don make money? You get money reach seun? If you no get money reach seun you sef join put for that nonsense wey you type up there.

If Bill Gates and Dnagote aren't intellectuals you think they'll be billionaires now? Mtscheew.

i wonder if one can make money from this sort of 'intellectual' arguements
and yes i'm making my own money...enough to know i don't have time for stupid arguments like this, cos i have to make more

IsraelMonday:


I perceive Eckankar.. The reLigion of Light and Sound of God herE..

What is Eckankar? I study and think a lot. I have no belief,just better understanding of what the "holy books" meant. Science and Religion are the same. Religion is an elementary form of education to beginners. When your look deeper the truth is in plain sight.

LucifersTongue:
LOL @ all these NEPA bill physicists who never took a course in general relativity or read a book on astronomy but come here to spew rubbish with the same confidence that a mad man details his own impossible version of reality... because they've been reading pseudo-scientific trash on the internet e.g "mind is pure energy", "God exists outside time", "lizard people and Illuminati", "intelligent design" etc.

I wonder when we'll dump all these irrelevant and unscientific arguments and focus on proper STEM education and research leading to lasting development in our nation.

Most people that do all this argument are just science fiction fans and activists. Engineers that love science and philosophers that just talk from their instinct. Well let's allow them, they know better than us in their thinking.

ifenes:


I take that back......don't let me use curse words. I'm not too ugly to get girls,I attract loads.

I perceive Eckankar, the reLigion of Light and Sound of God here..

leahcimzil:

i wonder if one can make money from this sort of 'intellectual' arguements
and yes i'm making my own money...enough to know i don't have time for stupid arguments like this, cos i have to make more

Of course, isn't things like this that these men of god use to make money off the foolish and unsuspecting multitude?

Remember, what you deem stupid_ might be intellectual to others, that's what opinions and preference are for.

LucifersTongue:
LOL @ all these NEPA bill physicists who never took a course in general relativity or read a book on astronomy but come here to spew rubbish with the same confidence that a mad man details his own impossible version of reality... because they've been reading pseudo-scientific trash on the internet e.g "mind is pure energy", "God exists outside time", "lizard people and Illuminati", "intelligent design" etc.

I wonder when we'll dump all these irrelevant and unscientific arguments and focus on proper STEM education and research leading to lasting development in our nation.

Your belittling of philosophy and the concept of thinking for thinking sake shows either pure ignorance or deliberate stupidity.. It was this sort of philosophical thinking that led to the development of all fields, science, humanities, law. The likes of Socrates, Aristotle. Archimedes, Pythagoras were people who thought about and studied everything usually in abstract and thanks to them we have the body of knowledge that we have today... Or u think itz a coincidence that whenever a country had this type of scholars in the past, they were usually the world power?? Egypt and Greece for example.

May Allah save us from evil thought and punishment of the hell fire, a lot of people have really gone astray. They will only know God when evil befalls them. If you don't believe in God, is it that you deny history or you think they are fairy tales. e.g. Pheroh of Egypt and Moses (ASW), Jesus Christ (ASW) Prophet Mohammed (SAW) that have been study by nobles and great people in the world. If you want to know who created God, you will have to die first, when you meet your Lord ask Him. Am sorry for your ignorance.

mrphysics:


It is believed that as we grow in our study of quantum mechanics we will discover that most of the things we believe now is even wrong. they are questions we still don't have answers to now but that does not mean that we won't have answers to it in the nearest future.

In physics something can come out of nothing, infact in nuclear chain reaction, we have seen things create themselves. Does it answer your question??

Let's just be patient with time and science.

We talking about a supposedly omnipresent and omniscient being that is responsible for the creation of the universe, supposedly doesn't die and lives out of time. This isn't a being a nuclear chain reaction will create, this a being that if truly exists is begotten by a far more superior entity than he is. So you can't come up and tell me that God created himself out of nothing without credible proof.

zeemahn:
But I thought the earth was about 6000 years old. And in the bible, the earth and the universe were created within the same period of time. But this article is talking in billions of years.

And...which of the about 6000 gods do you think created the world?

Was it really necessary to create? especially when things have a potential of going wrong...I will prefer not to exist than to exist and suffer.

I have spoken (or typed ) my mind.

Educate me.

EARTH WASNT CREATED IN 6DAYS BUT GOD USED 6DAYS IN BEAUTIFYING IT. GENESIS 1-1 SAID THAT IN THE BEGINNING,GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH AND THAT BEGINNING WAS OPEN,WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN MILLIONS OR BILLIONS OF YEARS.CHECK CHUMA DIMGBA IN FB FOR MORE.

As long as we don't know what is happening in our surroundings then there is something or someone greater than us ... As long as we can't know 5% all about life then that shows we don't know anything atall turn there is someone greater that knows all .. God truly is the greatest ..

BodyKiss:


Hahaha, what an irony. Good luck with your baseless God theories. I have more productive things to do with my time.

A FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART,"THERE IS NO GOD". AN EVEN GREATER FOOL SAYE EVIDENCE OR NO EVIDENCE THERE MUST BE GOD.

BodyKiss:

bang... the universe and everything in it appeared.

But that's exactly how the universe and everything in it appeared. You know, the Big Bang, that infinitesimally small yet massive energy pinpoint (although it was neither big, nor did it bang).

According to the theory of inflation (supported by the cosmic microwave background radiation), the universe and everything in it (including spacetime) began as that pinpoint of energy that rapidly expanded and is still expanding.

So yes, in billionths of seconds less than it takes to blink an eye, everything we know and see came into being.

Now, if we believe in fundamental particles, then obviously the universe and the big bang don't make sense.

If, however, we believe in string theory, then the universe was created.

But the instantaneous coming into existence and inflation are real.

micodon:


Is that what the Bible says? Don't conclude when you don't understand

Its those who 'understand' that are so sure the earth must be about 6000 years from Genesis, the time of Noah and the times Jesus was said to have walked the earth. I'm not the interpreter here. Meanwhile other Christians have a variety of different views. What do you think?

ifenes:


This dude is really funny . I'm not taking you serious. I'm on my way to Paris now, meeting a sweet Chocolate damsel

that dAmseL is not reAL.. U knw what.. Why don't u just take a Lighter or Matches.. Light it.. Put the tip of ur finger.. Why do U take it back..? Life Is Not Real..? Why Do You Consume Mountains Of Garri Per Year..? Hmmmm Very Funny Why Mankind Has Decided To Go Far Into Wondering For The Origin Of Their Creator, With Their Own Tools(Science), Very Very Funny.. But What I Know Is That He Is JEHOVAH, The Lord Of Host,The Holy One Of Israel Whom By His Pleasures All" Things" Were Created.. He Design This Earth For Mankind Existence.. Untill "Satan" The Devil(Genesis 3:1,Revelations 12:9) Made Mankind To Disobey Him, But Because Of His Love For Mankind(John 3:16) Gave Us His Son For Our Redemption From That Sin.. But Don't Lose Hope.. That Satan Will Be Destroyed.. But Take Heed Lest Ye Be Destroyed With Him.. Happy Sunday..

God is consciousness, pure energy, or whatever you call him. We're all part of God, sharing his consciousness.

God doesn't have to exist physically for him to exist. We create gods in our minds.

Whatever you create in your mind exists for you, cause it will automatically become your own reality.

You can create a God and it would become real for the mind that created it. Some people have phobia for height, light, sound, all sorts of phobias. To them those fears are real!!. In this instance they created their fears (God).

Therefore, there's no need for God to have been created. Even if humans created God, he's still real!!.

ifenes:


What is Eckankar? I study and think a lot. I have no belief,just better understanding of what the "holy books" meant. Science and Religion are the same. Religion is an elementary form of education to beginners. When your look deeper the truth is in plain sight.

Then what is Science..?

zeemahn:


You see, opinions among bible scholars concerning this topic differs. Some take the 6000 years literally while others insist that due to so so and so, it correspond to what science says.You should not expect me to know when even bible scholars have contradictory views about the age of the earth and universe.

But either way, what criteria do we use to chose what is literal and what is not literal in the bible?

and let's have an instance where,humans of any sort of believe u take it from,has ever been on same point of intellectual mobility to conclusions,considering our independent inteligency?

Splendour4845:
A FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART,"THERE IS NO GOD". AN EVEN GREATER FOOL SAYE EVIDENCE OR NO EVIDENCE THERE MUST BE GOD.

pLs teL them..

APOSTLECHUMA:
EARTH WASNT CREATED IN 6DAYS BUT GOD USED 6DAYS IN BEAUTIFYING IT. GENESIS 1-1 SAID THAT IN THE BEGINNING,GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH AND THAT BEGINNING WAS OPEN,WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN MILLIONS OR BILLIONS OF YEARS.CHECK CHUMA DIMGBA IN FB FOR MORE.

It was clearly stated nothing to argue about here. You're even speculating.

IsraelMonday:

Then what is Science..?

Google it

IsraelMonday:

that dAmseL is not reAL.. U knw what.. Why don't u just take a Lighter or Matches.. Light it.. Put the tip of ur finger.. Why do U take it back..? Life Is Not Real..? Why Do You Consume Mountains Of Garri Per Year..? Hmmmm Very Funny Why Mankind Has Decided To Go Far Into Wondering For The Origin Of Their Creator, With Their Own Tools(Science), Very Very Funny.. But What I Know Is That He Is JEHOVAH, The Lord Of Host,The Holy One Of Israel Whom By His Pleasures All" Things" Were Created.. He Design This Earth For Mankind Existence.. Untill "Satan" The Devil(Genesis 3:1,Revelations 12:9) Made Mankind To Disobey Him, But Because Of His Love For Mankind(John 3:16) Gave Us His Son For Our Redemption From That Sin.. But Don't Lose Hope.. That Satan Will Be Destroyed.. But Take Heed Lest Ye Be Destroyed With Him.. Happy Sunday..

If that works for you mate

foladara777:

Your belittling of philosophy and the concept of thinking for thinking sake shows either pure ignorance or deliberate stupidity.. It was this sort of philosophical thinking that led to the development of all fields, science, humanities, law. The likes of Socrates, Aristotle. Archimedes, Pythagoras were people who thought about and studied everything usually in abstract and thanks to them we have the body of knowledge that we have today... Or u think itz a coincidence that whenever a country had this type of scholars in the past, they were usually the world power?? Egypt and Greece for example.

1. Hehehe. It's bloody funny to compare the works of Socrates et al. to the rubbish people post on nairaland.

2. @bolded: I'm not sure, but are you claiming these intelligent design people commenting on nairaland are scholars? Please don't make me vomit!

3. I don't think you understand the meaning of unscientific. Whenever you have a completely un-testable hypothesis you are no longer in the realm of science, you are in the realm of fantasy. Most of the $hit you people talk about on nairaland (the stuff I listed in my previous post) is either flat out wrong or un-testable.