Blackfire:
@deathstroke007 @lexincolair

the topic is how Allah copied from the Jewish rabbis, the famous quran 5; 32-34. The moniiker is bashsan.

The guy can be any of u, am still waiting for the verse in the Torah or bible that proves mohamed is prophet from the mark on his shoulder.

Concerning your ranting about me been this or that... Keep your frustration to yourselves. Thank al-ilah u ve been ghostly following me, u will also notice where i bash Christians... Example assemblies of god church that took themselves to court and so many... Now that i read vedas does that make a Hindus, that i ve bible in my house those that make a Christian, that i ve a Koran inside my car does that make me a Muslim? Allah kiaye.. But like i told u in my long epistle...
I will protect and side these religions against Islam, quran, mohamed, Allah and his al majiris.
They are reasonable more than Islam, i know how manytimes i ve gone to the Hindus temple to ask thought provoking question about Shiva, and churches , nobody ve ever threaten me... But Islam.... *spits*,

i will protect other religion , because it protects me against Islam.

Now let me say this slowly for ur backward reading quranic brain, i am an atheist... I live in ibadan... Infact am in iwo road, where my shop is... People know me as an open confessed atheist.

Like i said mohamed and Allah are master in al taqiya.

Blackfire:



i ve never denied been an atheist, u are under a fusion of illusion. I can be friend with chritains, Hindus, zoroastans, Buddhists, Jews, traditional worshipers and i feel safe among them, i may ve my ish with them, we discuss , without any fatwa of death on my head. I learnt alot from them like Ali sina did.
But can that be said of u Muslims.... No. Intact mohamed ibn abdulallah specifically told u , u must never take Christians and Jews as friend,(even on this forum i ve seen a Muslim castigating his fellow Muslim for calling a Christian friend, u people are sick)... If so much hatred for these people , me an atheist will be killed by u morons.

So many people knew me as an open confessed atheist.

But u need to ask yourself why i know Islam, and hate what it propagates... Was i a former Muslim or a guy who bought the quran read it, and find tears, sorrows and blood.

If u want to meet me in person, i live in ibadan. Altaqiya is what mohamed and Allah does best.

AlMuflihah:


Clap for yourself sir...
All you wrote initially was your problem and I don't care, but as for your last paragraph, can you please tell us what is 'Al taqiya'...

Blackfire:


asamu alaiykum . U are a Muslim why don't u tell me what u know about al taqiya... Then i will say mine , how about that? I await ur reply

and pls in most cases i don't banter with ladies,so lets make this civil... Am blackfire.

lexiconkabir:
That guy dont know that i have been studying him, just go and check his posts on his profile and see what i'm saying.

true2god:
I am not an atheist but I do share some of your sentiments. Mohammed did not hide his hatred for the Jews and christians (quran 5:51, quran 98:6, quran quran 9:29)

lexiconkabir:
this has been answered by Almuflihah, her answer is sufficient for the wise, go and read her first post.

1)if it is fabricated, why is it still in Islamic libraries?
Ans: unlike Christians, we don't add or remove to islamic
literatures as it soothes us. it is even a thing of benefit to
us that it is in our books because it proves that every other
book apart from the Qur'an can be subjected to human errors.
Do you even know how these hadiths are recorded? It is recorded
through a chain of transmitters before it gets to the one who wrote
it down. So in the process, there might be corruptions or people like
you might pretend to be Muslims and fabricate lies against Islam
and report it as though it is an hadith and the one who recorded
it might be unaware and will just record it without knowing it's
from the enemy of Islam because he fears if he doesn't he is
hiding a knowledge which highly prohibited to us.

2)why do you use it as teaching materials in some madrasahs?
Simple it's to teach people who are ready to use their intellects
(not people like you) how to recognise lies told against Islam from the truth.

3) why can't Muslims burn in?
Answered from one above, because we aren't permitted to just
remove anything or hide anything. And so we can learn how to
recognise lies from truth by using those fabricated hadiths as examples.

4) why don't Muslims do official fatwas that it is fabricated?
Is the fatwa of shaykh Al-albani quoted for you by my brother
demzy not okay for you or until I quote Poo Francis?

DeathStroke007:






OLODO ni e.. You are daft...


It's the content and chain of narration that will determine it's authenticity

lexiconkabir:
My friend, you are holding a feable straw, find some strong points then quote me.

DeathStroke007:



No offense.. How old are you?

Your comprehension of explanation is zero

AlMuflihah:



I will answer but your question might be interpreted in many ways, so for further clarification; are you referring to abrogation after the Revelation is COMPLETED or while it is still being revealed.

And note if what you meant by Allah's words is the ahadith, then don't bother answering for your case is very serious for I have explained the ahadith are generally not Allah's words...

AlMuflihah:

First of all your analogy of the drink is not applicable, for unlike a drink inside one cup, the ahadith are very numerous and you could easily separate the lies from the truth if you are disciplined enough to learn. Mind you, this field you guys are lamenting on, is one of the most intellectually demanding fields in the studies of the religion... you can't stop liars from lying but you can separate their lies from the truth with the very well developed science of the study of hadith. Not any idiot like true2god, annunaki, blackfire or analice can just chuck mouth.

true2god:
I am not an atheist but I do share some of your sentiments. Mohammed did not hide his hatred for the Jews and christians (quran 5:51, quran 98:6, quran quran 9:29)

unphilaz:


before you do, kindly give a definition of ABROGATION to support your explanation.

a. After Revelation is completed if there is any where it can be abrogated?
b. which revelation is still being revealed, i will also want you to explain it too...

thanks

AlMuflihah:


The revelation is the Qur'an...

And your answer to my initial questions would determine the definition of abrogation I will give...

unphilaz:


ok


Koran satisfy all the above and no need of some truth some lies, some corruption etc put together as ahadiths.

unphilaz:


except you are denying that there are some truth and some lies in the ahadiths?

Demmzy15:
Christians are the people who have killed the highest amount of Jews, can you dispute this fact? I need an answer please!

unphilaz:


all i know is that recorders record after multiplicity of narrations and the more narrations on an hadith it is accepted... but why all this pull here and there discard the sh!t and stay on the koran... since its the final authority.

true2god:
[s] Your argument is not whether the muslims kill the Jews or not, your argument is on who killed more. Can you see how muslims reason? Must you kill\attack your fellow human being with no just cause?

There is no any christian sacred text that santioned the killing of Jews, but both the quran and the hadith are filled with call to violence against the Jews. I can give you many quranic verses and hadiths that sanctioned muslims to fight and kill the jews.

In most muslim countries, ordinarily identifying oneself as a Jews is as good as suicide. If any Jews is seen anywhere in saudi arabia he will be killed immediately, in obedience to the law of allahh\mohammed.

So take a chill pill, your request for the highest killer of Jews is both stupid and dangerous. Your quran legally sanctioned the killing of Jews till date and muslim-arab, till date, are calling for wholesale massacre of Jews wherever they are found.[/s]

unphilaz:


And its final... and CANNOT BE abrogated...definition of abrogation pls

AlMuflihah:


YES the Qur'an can no longer be abrogated... but while it was being revealed, some verses came to abrogate some... the abrogated verses are called 'mansukh' while the abrogating ones are called 'naasikh'.

Abrogation Naskh means lifting or removing, but in islamic terminology it means lifting the ruling indicated by an islamic text on the basis of another evidence from the Qur'an or Sunnah.
any other question after this?

Annunaki:


You may not realise it, but you just admitted that the quoran is inconsistent as a result of the abrogations. What was your allaah thinking of when he was revealing verses that he would abrogate a few years later yet he says quoran is meant to be for eternity. How can you take a deity that routinely goes back on his own words seriously?

Demmzy15:

Are you sensible at all? I asked a question and I need an answer, if you can't answer shut da hell up!

AlMuflihah:


YES the Qur'an can no longer be abrogated... but while it was being revealed, some verses came to abrogate some... the abrogated verses are called 'mansukh' while the abrogating ones are called 'naasikh'.

Abrogation Naskh means lifting or removing, but in islamic terminology it means lifting the ruling indicated by an islamic text on the basis of another evidence from the Qur'an or Sunnah.
any other question after this?

Annunaki:


You may not realise it, but you just admitted that the quoran is inconsistent as a result of the abrogations. What was your allaah thinking of when he was revealing verses that he would abrogate a few years later yet he says quoran is meant to be for eternity. How can you take a deity that routinely goes back on his own words seriously?

AlMuflihah:


How do I even begin explaining to this one?

Unlike the bible that was written several years after the life of Jesus, the Qur'an is a book that was revealed in piecemeal by Allah through His prophet to an entirely backward ignorant race for a period of about 23 years.

About your claim of inconsistencies,

AlMuflihah:



About your claim of inconsistencies, it shows Allah as the best of teachers and as the most knowledgeable of His creations. It revelation took into account the spirituality of the people it was revealed too. Imagine a people so backward and would kill one another because the dog of one of them killed the dog of another.
Just like you don't expect a teacher to teach primary students complex algebra which is where they would eventually head if they continued their studies.
I remember when we were in primary school, my teacher would tell us 2-3 is cannot go. But when we improved, we learnt actually it's possible and the answer is -1. Another case was when we were taught that sqrt of -ve numbers is impossible but we were later taught complex numbers.
Hence mental and spiritual maturities were paid into account and things that were permitted when they still hadn't been completely rid of their paganism was later abrogated when they had been completely cleansed by the teachings of the Prophet (peace be upon him). An example is that of d gradual prohibition of drinking alcohol and other intoxicants...u can make meaningful resarch on that by urself...BT if u dnt have access to qur'an, i'll mention it here later in sha Allah

true2god:
If within 10 years most of the earlier quranic revelations were abrogated, cancelled or changed, what gives you the impression that, if mohammed were to be alive alive today, more revelations will not be abrogated and replaced with a new one?

Annunaki:


Arrant al taquiya nonsense, so what's the logic in abrogating the peaceful meccan verses and replacing them with violent and evil medinan verses Are you sure your allaah has any sense at all

AlMuflihah:

Wallahi I don't understand you o. Do you know what is jarh wa tadeel?
First of all why do you keep remixing the samething that has been answered over and over again haba.

It has been said; the lies have been separated from the truth through a very well developed study of the science of hadith.

So to your call of doing away with the hadith...

Quote me on this, any Muslim who intentionally neglects working with an authentic Hadith of the Prophet has indeed disbelieved in the Qur'an hence in Allah... for Allah said...

مَّآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِۦ مِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْقُرَىٰ فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينِ وَٱبْنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ كَىْ لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةًۢ بَيْنَ ٱلْأَغْنِيَآءِ مِنكُمْ ۚ وَمَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَىٰكُمْ عَنْهُ فَٱنتَهُوا۟ ۚ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ ۖ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ شَدِيدُ ٱلْعِقَابِ
"... And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment."
59:7

Although there exist several other verses that shows the importance of hadith to muslims... hence why we expend every bit of our strength to protect it from falsehood.

I hope this piece is sufficient to make you shhh...

AlMuflihah:


YES the Qur'an can no longer be abrogated... but while it was being revealed, some verses came to abrogate some... the abrogated verses are called 'mansukh' while the abrogating ones are called 'naasikh'.

Abrogation Naskh means lifting or removing, but in islamic terminology it means lifting the ruling indicated by an islamic text on the basis of another evidence from the Qur'an or Sunnah.
any other question after this?

AlMuflihah:
YES the Qur'an can no longer be abrogated