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Stats: 1,899,140 members, 3,866,469 topics. Date: Saturday, 21 October 2017 at 06:34 PM
Who Should Supervise A Building Project; Architects, Builders Or Engineers / Architects: What Is Wrong With This Preliminary Draft / VERY IMPORTANT: Why Nigerian Civil Engineers Blame Architects/their Incompetence (1) (2) (3) (4)
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by routsz: 8:34am On Apr 16, 2016|
Op, I won't even respond to the dust you are raising with Architects - cos it was only a ploy by you to draw attention to yrself and thread.
But guy, from the quoted above, you are only here looking for 'customers' for your business. By all statutes, codes & regulations, no Engineer will resort to this kind of unethical advert you're doing here.
Yes, you come across as a qua. ck. Thank you
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by wilcox(m): 8:37am On Apr 16, 2016|
josite:This is not smartness, if only you read before Commenting you would've been guided but perhaps you commented before reading. How will you build on the road, when you mean enough space for future development what size are you talking about or I should just acquire my land and leave it for future expansion? Please do well to read my comment, assimilate and comment appropriately. Thanks
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by ojesymsym: 8:46am On Apr 16, 2016|
Guys, why do most houses even those who can afford it not have electrical plans or install fire detection systems, intercom systems and electronic security when drawing their plans. Most electrical installations are not done to any electrical codes resulting in fires in houses.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by abdulwastecx(m): 8:47am On Apr 16, 2016|
Oga stop this your Dubai narrative.
The OP is wrong to assert that he has corrected many architectural drawings because they made those mistakes he highlighted above. The truth is there are design that are not economically doable or buildable due to materials or workmanship.
How do you achieve a 5m cantilever beam in a residential house carrying wall and roof load using reinforced concrete. there are simple design error associated with lack basic structural knowledge by the architect
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by Psoul(m): 8:49am On Apr 16, 2016|
[b]wilcox....I also disagree with you on this. This post is mainly for Nigerian Architects and builders. Wot the OP said is very correct. Dont forget that this is Nigeria where anything can happen. This is a country where compensation does not work. You may tell me here that if you know your right you will fight for it, but it hardly works.
Pls to be on the safe side, just give enough space for future expansion. Government is always above any individual. Even if compensation is to be paid, dont forget that a demolition will take place which will inconvenience you and extra work will be needed, but when you give extra space, u may go for compensation of the space taken by government and not for pulling down your fence.
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|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by Igholize(m): 8:57am On Apr 16, 2016|
abdulwastecx:..... Bro, I dnt say much but I want 2 say 2 u dat, wen it comes 2 designing of building drawings, one must work wit measurement/unit for dimensioning of various plans in d drawing .... Let me sight an instance, a client tells d dude 2 use 6'' block to design his building, how can d dude show d size of d block in d floor plan if he couldn't or doesn't knw how 2 convert 4rm ( inches- mm )? Bcox, d unit for dimensioning comes in (mm) form.... so my bro one in-ability 2 convert 4rm one unit 2 another could as well be used as a yardstick to determine if he/she is realy good or not. On d other hand, wen it comes 2 construction of a structure ! One has 2 be fully experienced in other 4 him/she 2 erect/supervised.... For one going 2 d net 4 online tutorial nd so on.. Isn't enough bro.... 4 it has 2 b knowledge nd experience included. I greet u bro
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by semitunde: 8:58am On Apr 16, 2016|
Nice. I've had running issues with architects. Always needing to change things in site using experience to prevent what the client would suffer later if not corrected.
From door opening in a wrong direction, especially to a light switch, to doors in toilet areas obstructed by wash hand basins.
I've had to totally redimension and hence redesign a building after getting to site to realise that the space made available between the building and the fence in the drawing, (aparently to get the building approved) was not there on site. In fact the building was far bigger than the site!
Though the architect blamed the surveyor, surveyor gave us the site survey plan he gave to the architect and it was different from what the architect used. The architect had increased the dimensions on paper. Funny thing was that, even with the architect's dimensions,the building would only just fit within the borders of the site.
Another designed a roof that we had issues constructing . Thankfully we weren't the only contractors but were the first to get to roofing. We later did some little remodifications while he complained. Later he was telling other contractors who now had same issues to come and meet us for the solution he discussed with us ( he couldn't explain the solution to them cos he didn't know it).
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by shine12: 8:58am On Apr 16, 2016|
The normal process is that the Architect's drawing should be designed by a Structural Engineer who will design the structural sections in order to ensure they satisfy design condition and life-term serviceability usage.Under no circumstances should drawings put together by Drafters/Architects/Learnt it myself should be used to build homes or structures.I know lots of people do it in Naija and the house are strong and standing but it shouldn't be encouraged.A Structural Engineer is required to carry out design calculations.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by shine12: 9:02am On Apr 16, 2016|
The beam will have to be ridiculously deep and you will be looking at reinforcement bars of 40mm diameter along with >16 mm diameter links at very close spacing. Such design is wasteful and not ideal.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by victorazy(m): 9:02am On Apr 16, 2016|
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by victorazy(m): 9:03am On Apr 16, 2016|
Oga! I will keep using Dubai and any other similar city as reference and you can't stop me for doing that.
Human beings differs in knowledge. I don't think as an architect that I can achieve 5m beam using concrete if I don't have about 70% rest of the beam not embedded inside the building if not I will use steel beam.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by hlord: 9:06am On Apr 16, 2016|
Comments rolling in fast, now what do you expect a Project Manager to say ... than there's nothing as an unachievable project only when it's limited by resources
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by Nobody: 9:07am On Apr 16, 2016|
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by abdulwastecx(m): 9:08am On Apr 16, 2016|
Such a very deep beam may not fall within different provisions of maximum diameter of links, link spacing, percentage of bar you can have in reinforced concrete, workability provision, bonding etc. What I am trying to say is, somethings are not possible depending on the type of materials and level of workmanship
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by iwakunbaba: 9:08am On Apr 16, 2016|
@ op I disagree with some of your messages. As an architect I will tell my client what is obtainable based on his requirements then do what he wanted for him to see d difference. But I find you engineers annoying cos you are not extravagant like foreign engineers. There is nothing the architect designs thst is not archivable. Thanks
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by RaggedyAnn: 9:08am On Apr 16, 2016|
I thought this was going to be a list of common mistakes Architects make in practice; disappointingly, it's just a Structural Engineer's hustle for patronage.
You consider most Architect's designs unrealistic? That's because you are not imaginative. I do not blame you, it's due to your training. Most Nigerian structural Engineers like to limit construction to RC columns and beams with 4.5m c/c grid. Simply supported and continuous beams. 6m grids, cantilevers, portal frames, waffle/ ribbed slabs are all a stretch for you! Truth is that, there are a variety of structural systems available (even now) to achieve the Interesting designs the Architect comes up with but most Nigerian Structural Engineers are just not creatively inclined to reach for them. Which is why most schools of Architecture teach Building Structures as a core course from 200-600L. So that we know what lines are realistic as they're drawn. Architects are more inclined to look for solutions to realize their designs than the Engineer. And just as you claim to be correcting 70% of the Architectural designs you've been handed, I have had occasion to suggest alternative structural systems to Engineers I work with, who (due to their limited exposure) were about to murder my design. And in the end everyone comes out smarter. It's collaborative effort, which is what the design industry is all about.
You should thank Architects for their imagination. Something that "appears" undo-able is a challenge for you; to overcome such challenges past Engineers (like Luigi Nervi for instance) and Architects too have discovered new materials and systems that have been revolutionary. Don't look for the easy way out by sticking to what you are comfortable with. I bet you wouldn't be able to design the structures for any of Zaha Hadid's buildings but they are standing. And they are awesome!
God rest her soul.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by ChelseaDr(m): 9:09am On Apr 16, 2016|
Op in as much as l admire your courage to put up this piece, l also think you are just trying to advertise yourself which shouldn't be. l'm neither an engineer nor an architect but l think it is against the code of engineering ethics to start advertising ones work or capabilities .lt is only quacks that do that.
Architects are wonderful people who dwell in the realm of the impossible, they believe that all things are possible and it can only take an engineer who also believes in doing the impossible to achieve such. Architects are great people and l admire them may be because l also love drawing and designs.
There are quacks everywhere it is even worse in the medical profession. Op l think it is overstepping your limits to try to correct what an Architect has done, it should be a team work not a show of superiority.
troubleshooter l hail oo, easy easy my man.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by ademoladeji(m): 9:25am On Apr 16, 2016|
Young man, make your case without INSULT please.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by shine12: 9:28am On Apr 16, 2016|
I do agree with you.
Nigeria organisations/Banks/Universities spend a fortune on buildings but it pains my heart that a lot of these buildings still looks pre 1960 residential buildings.An example is just going to the website of the private Universities with expensive large RC house looking libraries, they are not masterpieces but are still expensive.
As far as we keep allowing foreign Engineers to come and design our big challenging highway,bridge and Mall projects, we will never develop. Our Engineers needs to push the boundaries of Structural Engineering (I'm not talking about a Site Civil Engineer,their experience is needed as well as buildability is important as well) unless, we might never go beyond the basic RC column and beam square grid designs.
There are loads of Nigerian Structural Engineers practicing in the UK and USA who has enormous wealth of experience in designing world class structures; Energy from Waste Plants,Ship yards,distribution centres.I beg them to come home.
As a Structural engineer, I'm looking to start a design firm in Lagos next year as I have been opportuned by God's grace to have designed innovative and challenging structures such as bunkers, conveyor systems, Energy from waste plants.These are innovative out of the box structures.
For the Op saying He corrects Architects drawings,no Architect that is trained and professional will make the most basic rookie mistake of putting a sink to block the door,you might have been dealing with non experienced drafters.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by alpontif(m): 9:31am On Apr 16, 2016|
You are the reason behind my decision to Log in.
I am also a Civil Engineer, Professionaly Licensed to Practice by COREN, and also a Corporate Member of the NSE.
Furthermore, I have Multiple masters Degrees in Both Housing Development and Information Technology.
More Imporatantly, I have years of experience in Infrastructure Planning, Engineering, Procurement and Construction.
The above should be enough credentials to validate anything I write from now.
No 1. An attitude of humility will take you a long way, I understand your pain, but you should at the least have addressed the message, not the messenger.
No 2. You have several Things confused, and I really dont blame you. I blame the arrogant ignorance taken for professional right that some people adopt in this Country. In this day and age, there is nothing like ''An Architect is the Head of the Project Team''. That statement is a fallacious carryover from the 60s and 70s.
Nowadays, The Architect can be the Lead of the Design Team, basically because his designs form the fundamental basis on which other Designers proceed, The Total, whole complete project is subject to the direction of a Project Manager...who is usually a Civil or Structural Engineer...(Most Projects in Dubai follow this model)
The point of correcting a drawing stems from the fact that that drawing is subject to practical reality which most Drafters fail to take into cognizance when creating plans and drawings. Professionally Trained Architects will never commit mistakes the OP pointed out, most of which
are commited by quacks, not real architects. So I agree with you on that Point.
But dont you think it is illogical of you to say ''An Architect is the Head of the Project Team'' and still in the same Breath indirectly Blame Engineers for the Buildings that are falling all over Lagos?....If Truly the Architect is the Head of the Project Teams on these Building Projects, shouldnt you logically Blame the Architects for the Buildings that are Falling all over Lagos?
The Imporatnt thing to note here is that Four Principal Things are responsible for Poor Infrastructure design or Construction( Buildings inclusive), and that is a Client who is a Cheapskate, an Incompetent Project Team, Thieving Artisans, and a Compromised government Development Control Unit.
An example of a Cheapskate Client are some people who come online on nairaland to obtain estimates for construction, then subject their construction team to that estimate, While this will work some of the Time, when this fails to work, the results can be financially disastrous. Always consult professionals, If you do not trust a particular professional, dont employ his services. It is not in your interest to alwys second guess him, thinking that heis out to rip you off. Personally I dont work with Cheapskate Clients, You either trust me or you dont.
It is Crucial that we focus on the message, not the messenger.
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|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by shine12: 9:32am On Apr 16, 2016|
Zaha was an inspiration to me but She was also known to design structures that are too expensive to be built.About 60% of her designs were never built.Maybe she was beyond our league and we couldn't just see into the future.People like that are gems and people don't start to idolise their work more until they are gone.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by abdulwastecx(m): 9:33am On Apr 16, 2016|
You are on point sir. The truth is most of our artisans are very conversant with empirical measurement (inch ('') and feet (')) than mm, cm or m for reasons I can't tell. It was easy for me to know this because I was an artisan before going to the University.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by screamng: 9:35am On Apr 16, 2016|
Architects design indoor and outdoor living spaces for all beings.
Engineers design the structural requirements of a building by applying scientific and mathematical means to solve technical problems.
Builders designs and advice on materials to be used on buildings.
The actual building contract is carried out by an experienced player called a CONTRACTOR.
All of them are supervised by the architect or a project manager.
It amazes me that some engineers bring their self down to the level of a contractor and ague that it is engineers that are to supervise site? Why Rationally, how would that work? Your expertise is in one aspect of building which is either structural, mechanical or electrical. But an architect is the creator of buildings.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by DerMeister: 9:37am On Apr 16, 2016|
You are either naive or you don't know what country you are in. First of all, building codes forbid you from building very close to your fence. there is also a minimum distance between the center of the road and any structure (actual distance depending on the type of road in question). So even if you bribe your way to approval, when the govt decides to do any development, you will lose. If you decide to go to court, good luck with that, while you are waiting years for the court, the govt will go ahead...
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by Barselonia(m): 9:39am On Apr 16, 2016|
google1:I beg your pardon sir... can u state d different between what I said and what u said?
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by alpontif(m): 9:45am On Apr 16, 2016|
It can be done. Very welldone. The question you should be asking is Can the Client pay for it? Can he afford it?
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by alpontif(m): 9:51am On Apr 16, 2016|
Nigerian Engineers can Design anything. Believe me., at least the Competent ones.
By the way, I also design and Build Panic Rooms. We should talk.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by shine12: 9:52am On Apr 16, 2016|
Best response Si!!
I have a feeling people are mixing the responsibilities and jobs of an Architect with Structural Engineers and Technicians.
Architect - Puts to paper the idea of the CLIENT. He/She suggests and innovates designs. He/She sometime need to work closely with the Engineers in order to appraise structural solutions to challenging designs and on how they can be achieved.He considers the essential features of the structure and kind of a brain box behind the outlook of the building, havibg said that, he/she doesn't get blamed if the building collapses(Lol)
Engineer -He/She designs the structural system proposed by the Architects.He advises the client as well on the structure.The Engineer should also work closely with the Architect in order to solve any anomaly on paper before construction proceeds.
Site Engineer-Leads, controls and ensure designs are built in accordance to specifications.He raises concern with Engineer and client when He realises that what is to be built needs to be reformed. He is never the primary designer.
Technician -Wholly works on the directive of the Engineer and has no right to specify any Structural element.He only drafts as He's being led by the lead Engineer.
M&E Engineers-Electrical and mechanical
Civil Drainage-Designs waste water,water pipes etc.
I'm not saying a small client with limited resource should engage these guys as these responsibilities can be performed by even one Engineer if He has the skill set.It's all about the skills.
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by ademoladeji(m): 9:59am On Apr 16, 2016|
Simply employ a composite structure... UB with stiffners embedded in a concrete...
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by YUNGCONCEPT11(m): 9:59am On Apr 16, 2016|
oapeleo:u guyz always see ur self above the architect...and if architect don't design hunger go kill u...u re always tackling us ...I think u ve commited aa huge crime on Architect Registration council of nigeriaa..why doo civil engineers always like tarnishing our image and we don't belittle there own profession...if u have a problem with a design why can't u call d architects who designed it to come nd rectify d issue ...if u supervise I can supervise even more than u can imagine too
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by godwinkessi: 10:13am On Apr 16, 2016|
I love you pal ***no homo
Just 10 of ur type in Nigeria then I'll continue to be proud I'm an architect! 6 years no be beans
|Re: VERY IMPORTANT: Mistakes Architects Make And Should Be Avoided by abdulwastecx(m): 10:20am On Apr 16, 2016|
I know this can be done but the universal beam (UB) connection to the adjacent structures will be a problem
Sorry... I saw the stiffners part
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