Construction changes are often inevitable.....mostly headroom, doors and window positions and should usually be with the consent of the Architect.....any major changes most be approved in written by the architect....always work with ur architect in the future....

oapeleo:


Uncle correcter,
Did you see the area of that roof,
Did you see the angle its inclinde,
Did you consider what the velocity of flow will do to your drop landing.

There are calculations that are made before a proper
solution is adviced. And if the solution will affect the aesthetics of the building and if the solution is worth the extra money, rather than a proper redesig.

What calculation? The velocity of free falling object is constant. I love you to sample some that calculation you chatting about.

EngrEltolad:
Nice thread those Architects can be annoying at times with their unrealistic building plans.

I think you talking about quacks and DIYers like me.

oapeleo:

My name is Osarenkhoe Osayanmon and am a Civil Engineer with enough experience in design and building. I have worked as a building consultant for some time now and supervised some projects on my own from start to finish. I want to share my experience and ideas with you guys. I can be reached via 08068280130 anytime.


I end up correcting 70% of any architectural drawing given to me to develop. The reason is because architect drawings are almost always not achievable or realistic.
Yeah they look so beautiful on paper and their 3d awesome.

Stay tuned and pick no offence but learn

Op, the above quoted puts your competence into very precarious position (no insults intended please). For God's sake 70% I happen to be in the industry & my deduction from above is; it's either you were too fast at setting up your "PP" or partners with "quacks".
Check this;
An Architect designs,
Client approves,
Structural engineer gets to work & in the case of an impossibility/or unnecessary organized chaos reverts back to Architect for clarification/correction/redesign/brainstorming,
Mechanical engineer gets to work,
Electrical engineer gets to work,
Drawing goes back to Architect for harmony & in the case of ambiguity, the professional(s) indicted gets back to work,
The Landscape expert/or Architect finishes up,
The Architect then submits the said drawing for onward approvals!!!

My "brother" with this your 70% is only left with gigantic question mark!

erico2k2:

What calculation? The velocity of free falling object is constant. I love you to sample some that calculation you chatting about.

Ok. First if you choose to use a collector.
Calculate the weight of water in the collector. You can get weight using density formula and volume from the area. If the weight is too much for your collector, then increase its size or the material.

And to velocity, if you did your fluid mechanics well, you will know Velocity changes when there is a change in area. And to balance the flow, the inlet velocity has to be equal to the outlet velocity. This will help you choose the appropriate number of outlet pipes, their sizes and spacing.

In case you decide to make a reservoir out of the water. Then you need to read on Catchment area and reservoir size. Google it.

Stay blessed

AreOnaKakanfo:


What if that's what the client wants and he can pay for it?

Let's consider all options.

Sure, I was just saying.

jojoki:


Odeeee, only God knew when you graduated from school, maybe 4 or 5 yrs and you have the effrontery to open your stinking mouth by quoting me. Well what I meant by unrealistic drawing may be too harsh word but am really surprised how stup.id you claimed to be. You are an ordinary draftsman claiming to be an Architect. Smh

E pain you? sorry o!

oapeleo:
Sorry, I didn't say all architects make mistakes or neither am I super experienced and error free.

I am writing based on my experience.
Maybe my clients are using quarks. But its difficult to tell until you have begon the building.

On the issue of fence. Many people were affected by this in Edo State when Oshiomole got into power.
And I tell you till now no compension has been paid. I had to bring a fence just 600mm backwards. Too small but big enough to cry about.

Just weeks ago I got a new site. Very beautiful and complex structure and I was happy I won the contract. Took me a week to plan the building process and cost the whole structure. This design was done by a well known architectural firm in Ogun state.

3 days ago, I mobilized my workers to site to peg the building. Then I discovered the land was just 21x21m and the building was 18x21m.

Every little detail should be considered before design.


Take a look at the design below. Won't tell you the company that did it. But from what I can see on their company website, they have done works in several countries.
Its beautiful, but take a look at the roof. Predict how much water will flow into the terrace at the right when it rains. Still the client didn't want to design changed. Ok ooh.

Bro, can you give a brief history of this design? Look if you're in Benin sorry but most of the designs over there are literarily "lifted". What makes a firm "well known"? Father's name or a link with a known politician

Look there are processes leading to mobilization to site in a standard contract in Nigeria. Try & read STANDARD FORM OF BUILDING CONTRACT IN NIGERIA, also CONDITIONS OF ENGAGEMENT & consultancy services agreement (my last issue was okayed by Major General Garba Ali Mohammed). I referred this because the size of that structure demands conferring with allied professionals/consultants for effective project delivery.

Reaching out ain't sin in construction, it's rather for effective delivery in project management. Online check out what happened to the great "nest stadium" in China during construction.

Nice one op.. But number two point is what is obtainable here in Kebbi State.... If you don't mind there are a lot of pictorial evidence to back it up too... #AnotherAspiringDraughtman!

shine12:


Sure, I was just saying.

Okay but just responded to what you said " Such design is wasteful and not ideal .

It's only wasteful to someone that can't afford it. It's also not ideal to a layman. To the client that wants it and can pay for it then it's ideal.

Let's be open minded as professionals and not ridicule designs that causes us to step outside of our comfort zones.

It's all good.

oapeleo:
Sorry, I didn't say all architects make mistakes or neither am I super experienced and error free.

Take a look at the design below. Won't tell you the company that did it. But from what I can see on their company website, they have done works in several countries.
Its beautiful, but take a look at the roof. Predict how much water will flow into the terrace at the right when it rains. Still the client didn't want to design changed. Ok ooh.

Other than free fall rain from the sky onto the patio then no rain from the roof will ever touch the terrace because the simple solution is rain gutters which exists here in Nigeria already.

This structure is not my cup of tea but if that is what the client wants then it should be given to him . Dismissing this structure partially when the solution is less than N10,000 is professional negligence, in my opinion.

Any professional should see himself as a solutions provider first and foremost.

Na gode.

PS: Please note that the downspout goes though a space in the decking and hugs the building.
PPS: Even if the rain water is allowed to fall onto the decking, what is the worst case scenario here if the decking is adequately prepared to deal with rain water?

oapeleo:
Location Plan
Location plan is supposed to help anybody locate the site. It is necessary you take it from a known road or building. Don't be too lazy to signify other buildings around. Google Maps can help you do this properly.


Site Plan
Its important you study the survey plan well before you make your site plan.
1. Don't be tempted to use all the available land for the fence. You need to reserve some in front for the gutter, some flowers for beauty, and for waste disposal.
You should have enough space between d road and fence. Just in case your governor decides to expand the road in future.

2. You should have enough space between the building and the fence. Don't ever use 1m or less. Only If you want water to flow from your roof to the next compound or flowers to grow into it.

3. Include the area of land available, area of to be developed, area to be developed later and area undeveloped. In some cases the longitude and latitude of the site, the direction of north and hatch or colour codes key.

4. All dimensions are important. The building boundary and distance to any element in the compound.

5. Place the gates well. To allow his car move in smoothly. Dont place the gate in a way car will have to turn several times before it's enters.
I have seen a house, were the owner has to come from the street behind his house to maneuver his way through the gate.

6. Should the security post share the same wall with fence. You must plan this properly. Few houses from mine, the man uses electric fence. But the security post roof can be used to gain access into the house with just a ladder.

7. When considering packing space. The space should take the cars when all doors are open.

1 & 2. Your number 1 & 2 are pure advice to baby Architects(undergrads) simply because @ 200L those points form the basis for Site analysis. A degree holder in architecture knows each state has their own standard for set backs. Delta state is 3m from your building line at the front while FCT is 6m as basic standard. This standards varies when your building is facing/bordering some categories of "special infrastructures"

3. Different states also have their standards for built up areas depending on the planned density of the layout in question and sometimes type of built structure that can be permitted therein. The little write up beside the site plan is compulsory in all states in Nigeria when your drawing is intended for approval. It comes as below...
**Area of site (in square meters)
**Area of building (in square meters)
**Percentage of built up area (in percentage)

4. Dimension lines as regards setbacks and differentials from any curve, corner or angle as the case maybe is compulsory when going for approval. Look, if the topography is averagely undulating you are expected to produce a "spot level page" to enhance clarity. Beyond average you are expected to produce a "contour page" in your submissions also to enhance clarity.

5, 6 & 7. neufert architect's data my brother takes care of that & it happens to be a basic companion for all schools of Architecture( approved) in Nigeria.

Your points makes me have this feeling that most of the jobs you handled never went through approval, I could be wrong though but then...

oapeleo:
Now tell me how the cars entered this building.
The 3d is beautiful, it shows 2 Cars in the compound.
I don't know the cars drove through the gate and made a perfect turn to the right.

Even if the cars where dropped with helicopter. The driver can not open the door. Because it will be obstructed by the fence.

This is what happens when the site plan isn't properly planned.

Tell us the state planning office that approved this design my brother...be candid.

oapeleo:
Before you draw

Its the dream of any architect to see his design built as he drew. You must ask you client some questions. Take note most of them don't know what's right for them. So try to bring yourself to their level before you advice them.

1. First, You have to be sure your client wants to pay for your drawing. Do you know there are some old architects here on Nairaland who will give a task to several young architects who are full of ideas. At the end they will always pick faults in what you design until you are frustrated to give up. What they do is combine ideas from several architects and do it themselves. All your time and efforts will be wasted.
Maybe one day you will see what you designed being built and no penny was given to you.
I don't think there is a solution to this problem. If you have, please share with us. You just have to be careful. You could also be a victim of fake clients. People who have no land or intention to build. They will contact you for a design and when you are done, they will tell you THANKS.

2. Can your client afford this?
You have to think twice before you design a building that will cost millions for someone who does not see a million in a year. Design what your client can afford.
Always make dem simple.

3. Can the features I put on the drawing be found?
You design a house with pergolas. Who knows where I can buy one?

Brief analysis and concept development takes care of all that.

oapeleo:
Before you draw

Its the dream of any architect to see his design built as he drew. You must ask you client some questions. Take note most of them don't know what's right for them. So try to bring yourself to their level before you advice them.

1. First, You have to be sure your client wants to pay for your drawing. Do you know there are some old architects here on Nairaland who will give a task to several young architects who are full of ideas. At the end they will always pick faults in what you design until you are frustrated to give up. What they do is combine ideas from several architects and do it themselves. All your time and efforts will be wasted.
Maybe one day you will see what you designed being built and no penny was given to you.
I don't think there is a solution to this problem. If you have, please share with us. You just have to be careful. You could also be a victim of fake clients. People who have no land or intention to build. They will contact you for a design and when you are done, they will tell you THANKS.

2. Can your client afford this?
You have to think twice before you design a building that will cost millions for someone who does not see a million in a year. Design what your client can afford.
Always make dem simple.

3. Can the features I put on the drawing be found?
You design a house with pergolas. Who knows where I can buy one?

Brief analysis and concept development takes care of all that.
Chairman can you please post a picture of any of your finished projects? I think Nairalanders will appreciate one if you don't mind...

ademoladeji:


Chief Architect, kindly read up all posts above and fish out where insults were dropped. Someone might be ignorant of another profession but I think it's better to get ourselves enlightened rather than insulting.

I'm not offended bros, we're all learning one way or the other.

Lemme ask you these questions:

1. What are the roles of NIA and ARCON in the architectural practices in Nigeria?

2. What will you say about those 'Architects' that are encroaching the M&E profession by making the M&E drawings themselves

I just needed to be enlightened on those two. No attacks please.

I end up correcting 70% of any architectural drawing given to me to develop. The reason is because architect drawings are almost always not achievable or realistic.
the above statement, to highlight a few, i find repulsive and a direct attack on architectural practice. by extrapolation, hes saying 70% of architects are crap! this is the reason for my sharp rejoinders. they are meant not to attack Engineering practice but to call the OP to order. bear in mind that there is a branch in architecture called CRITIQUE. we do critique of our works being aware that no design is error proof. but it is not in the OP's place with limited experience to do a critique of not a project but the entire Architectural practice in Nigeria on one hand while glorifying engineering practice on the other! thats quite an affront and you all his colleagues shld call him to order. thats immature.

on ur no1 question, i wont come here to pillory NIA and ARCON on how effective they have been playing their roles. its an in-house matter no need washing it in public.
on ur 2nd question, the way the building industry in Nigeria, many professionals do carpet crossing into other professions. i dont support it. i dont do it. but untill we have a well structured building industry with well delineated roles, theres little we can do about it.

AreOnaKakanfo:


Other than free fall rain from the sky onto the patio then no rain from the roof will ever touch the terrace because the simple solution is rain gutters which exists here in Nigeria already.

This structure is not my cup of tea but if that is what the client wants then it should be given to him . Dismissing this structure partially when the solution is less than N10,000 is professional negligence, in my opinion.

Any professional should see himself as a solutions provider first and foremost.

Na gode.

PS: Please note that the downspout goes though a space in the decking and hugs the building.
PPS: Even if the rain water is allowed to fall onto the decking, what is the worst case scenario here if the decking is adequately prepared to deal with rain water?

Please read my post that came after.
Solution already provided
Thanks

shine12:


I do agree with you.
Nigeria organisations/Banks/Universities spend a fortune on buildings but it pains my heart that a lot of these buildings still looks pre 1960 residential buildings.An example is just going to the website of the private Universities with expensive large RC house looking libraries, they are not masterpieces but are still expensive.

As far as we keep allowing foreign Engineers to come and design our big challenging highway,bridge and Mall projects, we will never develop. Our Engineers needs to push the boundaries of Structural Engineering (I'm not talking about a Site Civil Engineer,their experience is needed as well as buildability is important as well) unless, we might never go beyond the basic RC column and beam square grid designs.

There are loads of Nigerian Structural Engineers practicing in the UK and USA who has enormous wealth of experience in designing world class structures; Energy from Waste Plants,Ship yards,distribution centres.I beg them to come home.

As a Structural engineer, I'm looking to start a design firm in Lagos next year as I have been opportuned by God's grace to have designed innovative and challenging structures such as bunkers, conveyor systems, Energy from waste plants.These are innovative out of the box structures.

For the Op saying He corrects Architects drawings,no Architect that is trained and professional will make the most basic rookie mistake of putting a sink to block the door,you might have been dealing with non experienced drafters.

I've had interest in Energy from waste, but after going through my research, it seemed like a tall dream to achieve cause we don't have anyone with that kind of expertise. Glad to see a Nigerian with immense experience in the structural aspect. We really need something of this nature in the country, it's long overdue.

troubleshooter:
1st of all, the Hogwash u put up here shld be retitled 'MISTAKES DRAUGHTSMEN MAKE'.
If u are not a quack and truly a registered engineer (as u so claim) u Shld know better that this rubbish presentation is against ur COREN ethics of professional practice. An Architect is the head of a project team and u correct his drawings?!!!.... Under what moral authority?
Buildings are falling down all over lagos & u haven't deemed it fit to address that log in ur eye, rather u occupy urself with the vain pursuit of removing a speck in the eye of some profession u know nothing about.
Come to think of it, so u think this trash u put up equates to what is taught in 6yrs of architecture school?
With all ur hallowed experience u deem it fit that a 1metre setback is Better than the 3m as contained in building bye-laws? U are a wonder! Pity the ignorant public cld still applaud ur quackness.
Pple like u are the reason why we are where we are as a country. Jack of many trades, master of zilch.

I was actually looking out for a good response before I comment. A so called building consultant that can't distinguish quacks from Professionals. I laughed at the 3d posted, it can only be done by people like him leaving a setback of 1m.

Let's stop blaming Clients, we can always protect our integrity by walking away from prospective clients that can mortgage ur future with a 50k design.

Architects develop client's brief. And no design is impossible to build. Lazy engineers won't just use their heads to work it out.

When issues like this come up for delibration, one thing certainly displayed is the lack of coordination amongst professionals involved in a particular project. This is mainly the fault of the professional bodies where the professionals belong, NSE, NIA, COREN, ARCON, etc.

When an architect feels he is above a civil engineer or vice versa on a building project for instance, then we can never progress. The Architect, The Civil/structural Engineer and the Services Engineers are very important in every building project.

I have been involved in quite a number of Fed govt projects representing my firm as the Mechanical Engineering Consultant on these projects. The Architects i have worked with have always allowed every professional in His/Her field do their work, not interfering and boasting of being the project team lead,raising shoulders as some so-called Architects do, "we are the architects na we get the project" ahah, to much unnecessary pride. As a Mechanical services Engineer, I am as important as the Electrical services Engineer, The Structural Engineer and The Architect for the success of the project.

Of what use is a building if it cannot be occupied due to poor services( Mechanical and Electrical)? Of what use are the services if the structural Engineer cannot make the building stand? or what use is an Architect's concept if the structural Engineer cannot make it come to reality?

As an Engineer, never unilaterally correct an error you THINK exists in an Architectural design without discussing it with the Architect to hear His/her views. Same applies to the Architect on Engineering designs. Most especially, Architects have taken over Services (M&E) drafting (I can't call it design, because they have little or no idea about in-dept services design).

An Architect cannot seal/approve a structural, mechanical, or electrical design. A structural engineer cannot seal/approve even a mechanical engineering design, so what are we talking about. As i said earlier our professional bodies and the development control agencies are largely to be blamed.

CASTOSVILLA:
E pain you? sorry o!

When you bite more than you can ever chew. Having a free data to browse didn't give you a right to abuse people on faceless forum. My apology from REAL ARCHITECT on my harsh word (UNREALISTIC) used in my earlier comments but never from a road side Draftman like you. Just try to grow up.

Tundelogic:


I was actually looking out for a good response before I comment. A so called building consultant that can't distinguish quacks from Professionals. I laughed at the 3d posted, it can only be done by people like him leaving a setback of 1m.

Let's stop blaming Clients, we can always protect our integrity by walking away from prospective clients that can mortgage ur future with a 50k design.

Architects develop client's brief. And no design is impossible to build. Lazy engineers won't just use their heads to work it out.

Troubleshooter's problem is just English language
I said and I quote
". You should have enough space between the building and the fence. Don't ever use 1m or less. Only If you want water to flow from your roof to the next compound or flowers to grow into it"

I didn't say you should use 1m, and your "people like him statement" hmmmm I rest my case.

Anyway well trained architects have a lot of work to do. To remove quarks and save me the time to post my observations.

shine12:
The normal process is that the Architect's drawing should be designed by a Structural Engineer who will design the structural sections in order to ensure they satisfy design condition and life-term serviceability usage.Under no circumstances should drawings put together by Drafters/Architects/Learnt it myself should be used to build homes or structures.I know lots of people do it in Naija and the house are strong and standing but it shouldn't be encouraged.A Structural Engineer is required to carry out design calculations.

Fantastic contribution. Thumbs up. Most comments here have been mainly theoretical but urs is practical and practicable.

notindome:
When issues like this come up for delibration, one thing certainly displayed is the lack of coordination amongst professionals involved in a particular project. This is mainly the fault of the professional bodies where the professionals belong, NSE, NIA, COREN, ARCON, etc.

When an architect feels he is above a civil engineer or vice versa on a building project for instance, then we can never progress. The Architect, The Civil/structural Engineer and the Services Engineers are very important in every building project.

I have been involved in quite a number of Fed govt projects representing my firm as the Mechanical Engineering Consultant on these projects. The Architects i have worked with have always allowed every professional in His/Her field do their work, not interfering and boasting of being the project team lead,raising shoulders as some so-called Architects do, "we are the architects na we get the project" ahah, to much unnecessary pride. As a Mechanical services Engineer, I am as important as the Electrical services Engineer, The Structural Engineer and The Architect for the success of the project.

Of what use is a building if it cannot be occupied due to poor services( Mechanical and Electrical)? Of what use are the services if the structural Engineer cannot make the building stand? or what use is an Architect's concept if the structural Engineer cannot make it come to reality?

As an Engineer, never unilaterally correct an error you THINK exists in an Architectural design without discussing it with the Architect to hear His/her views. Same applies to the Architect on Engineering designs. Most especially, Architects have taken over Services (M&E) drafting (I can't call it design, because they have little or no idea about in-dept services design).

An Architect cannot seal/approve a structural, mechanical, or electrical design. A structural engineer cannot seal/approve even a mechanical engineering design, so what are we talking about. As i said earlier our professional bodies and the development control agencies are largely to be blamed.

Well done boss . This comment deserves an applause

oapeleo:


Troubleshooter's problem is just English language
I said and I quote
". You should have enough space between the building and the fence. Don't ever use 1m or less. Only If you want water to flow from your roof to the next compound or flowers to grow into it"

I didn't say you should use 1m, and your "people like him statement" hmmmm I rest my case.

Anyway well trained architects have a lot of work to do. To remove quarks and save me the time to post my observations.

Don't ever use 1m or less but u can use 1.2, 1.5, 2.1? they are all not less than 1m but are they right?........so you can see who has a problem with english language? i cant change u. pls continue in ur immaturity and ignorance. but no matter how u try, u cant bring Architecture down.

jojoki:


When you bite more than you can ever chew. Having a free data to browse didn't give you a right to abuse people on faceless forum. My apology from REAL ARCHITECT on my harsh word (UNREALISTIC) used in my earlier comments but never from a road side Draftman like you. Just try to grow up.

My man please no transfer your aggression come my side, I use God beg you. Please solve your anger issues somewhere else.

ranktzy:


I've had interest in Energy from waste, but after going through my research, it seemed like a tall dream to achieve cause we don't have anyone with that kind of expertise. Glad to see a Nigerian with immense experience in the structural aspect. We really need something of this nature in the country, it's long overdue.

Yes, Energy from Waste plant can potentially be one our energy solutions in Nigeria. I was even discussing it with a much more senior Engineer the other day about bringing it across Africa and He said that it’s very possible in Nigeria especially but the constraint will be the procurement of the construction process and as you said it’s really a tall order (it can definitely be done) To me the issue is with the funders. I do have contact of process plant suppliers. Once someone can get a developer with money to spend, it can be built in Nigeria, it’s about convincing the Alikos, Tinubus of this world to fund it. The one I’m currently working on has a capacity of 20MW which will produce a monthly equivalent of 11,520MW.h.
The funny thing about the waste is that the plant operators buy wastes as far away as Germany and bring to the UK to use as a source of energy.

CASTOSVILLA:
My man please no transfer your aggression come my side, I use God beg you. Please solve your anger issues somewhere else.

It's not that am aggressive but your first comment wasn't Kool to me. If you are man enough to do the needful then we may forget it and move on since we both need each in our noble professions.

[quote author=DerMeister post=44748357]You are either naive or you don't know what country you are in. First of all, building codes forbid you from building very close to your fence. there is also a minimum distance between the center of the road and any structure (actual distance depending on the type of road in question). So even if you bribe your way to approval, when the govt decides to do any development, you will lose. If you decide to go to court, good luck with that, while you are waiting years for the court, the govt will go ahead...
I can't have you school me in my profession, from your writing I can easily depict the school of thought you belong to, so I will rather keep off than argue with you.

abdulwastecx:


Architect don't employ civil engineer or supervised them.... Where do you get that from?

Thank you very much for your reply to that guy.

oapeleo:
Before you draw

Its the dream of any architect to see his design built as he drew. You must ask you client some questions. Take note most of them don't know what's right for them. So try to bring yourself to their level before you advice them.

1. First, You have to be sure your client wants to pay for your drawing. Do you know there are some old architects here on Nairaland who will give a task to several young architects who are full of ideas. At the end they will always pick faults in what you design until you are frustrated to give up. What they do is combine ideas from several architects and do it themselves. All your time and efforts will be wasted.
Maybe one day you will see what you designed being built and no penny was given to you.
I don't think there is a solution to this problem. If you have, please share with us. You just have to be careful. You could also be a victim of fake clients. People who have no land or intention to build. They will contact you for a design and when you are done, they will tell you THANKS.



2. Can your client afford this?
You have to think twice before you design a building that will cost millions for someone who does not see a million in a year. Design what your client can afford.
Always make dem simple.

3. Can the features I put on the drawing be found?
You design a house with pergolas. Who knows where I can buy one?

Very correct sir.. I am an architect, I Don't give out my drawings plans or 3dwithout been paid a percentage first.

I'm loving this....

The real architects should please stand up and be counted. Contact nos would be helpful as well.