Patchesagain:


1. Ok, so you dont know what a HALO jump is.

2.
- Yes walk through many miles
- what is the range of a X-38 catermaran?
- Its been done plenty, we did it in Angola
- Are all the countries in the world? Will SF only ever operate in land locked countries?

Probably one of the most assisine arguments you have ever made.

3. Citations for 500km or more foot insertions by Nigerian SF. You made the claim, prove it - I can prove my claims.

4. Hornet is better armed (1 HMG, 1 GPMG and option for ATGM/MRLS/60mm Mortar), it is more versatile, it can be paradropped and it can be easily slung. VBL is not a SF teir vehical.

5. Same guy "killed" 3 times.

6. SA-7 Strela manpad has a max-altitutde of 1.5km
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/EE01%20-%20SA-7%20Grail.html

Star-streak is a state of the art peice of equipment, un-jammable and one of the most feared MANPADS on the world - with an altitude up to 5km.

7.
- RGP cant kill tanks, cant even kill most modern IFV's
- Effective range for an RPG = 200m
- Effective range for a Milan ER = 3000m
- Who said tanks? Will SF never be asked to take out enemy equipment? Radar towers/ammo dumps/HQ's/Aircraft? We can do that from 3000m away with a Milan. You cannot
- RPG requires two men, an operator and one man to assemble the projectiles (propellant and war-head are seperate - you should know this military researcher)
- South African SF operate with up to 100kg of equipment on them, so its not a problem for us

8. Soldiers on the ground confirmed the story, their accounts have been posted here many time. Stories were denied by the SANDF WHILE OPERATIONS WERE ONGOING because of OPSEC

9. SANDF Recce's have seen combat in Bangui and DRC and in both places displayed their skills. Knowledge is passed through training. Your SF have no knowledge because they were only established 7 years ago. ROK SF/SOF have not seen combat since the 1950's... are you saying your men are better than them?

10. Except the long list of former SADF men still in the ranks of the SANDF

You are wasting my time with assinine and childish comments.

Talking about VBL's as though they are SF tools - posting pictures of VBLS you dont have , telling us that a 1960's MANPAD is better than a modern one, telling us stealth insertions via submarine have no point.

The only reason you say this is because you know that we have these things and it is what makes us better than you.

Again, our police SOF are better than anything you have.

Pics of ACTUAL SANDF equipment

1. Wasp - notice HMG, GPMG and MRLS
2. NTW20 - record holding 20mm sniper rifle
3. Wasp on deployment with SF
4. Based MILAN

Nigeria has nothing on South African SOF/SF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQm50m7F8aY

1. Fool, HALO jump is a simple parachute jump, even Wikipedia explains it. Nothing special there, fool.

2. Does your submarine land on coast land to insert troops? No ! You drop them off at sea far off where water is deep and the SF travel the remaining distance by inflatable boat . Nigeria has many X-38 stealth combat catamaran specially built for SF insertions in covert ops.

3. Trekking 500 km does not win any soldier a fight. Can you fight and kill the enemy? How many kilometers did US Navy seals trek to kill Osama Bin Laden? 0 km. We are talking about SF in combat not olympics walk competition. BTWN, all evidence shows Nigerian SF have more stamina, we have compared SA SF and your men are weaker in quality of physical stamina training. Wanna repeat that photo show ?

4. VBL carries all manner of weapons and equipment from cannon to missiles, auto grenade launchers to anti-aircraft missiles and radar.

The Hornets deployed by SANDF have only machine guns, no missile or rockets, we saw them in Bangui. You too were posting Hornet variants you don't have, so I too posted VBL weapons options confirmed with photos.

The VBL can be parachute dropped . Nigeria too has all those MGL, AGL, knee mortar, anti-material rifle blah blah blah. Why the noise?

Who told you VBL is not a specialty SF vehicle you dummy? See the display photo below at a special forces equipment show, VBL + SF black amphibious boat and the SF troop on it ! Mumu. The Hornet is a stupiiid SF vehicle that cannot swim and is exposed with no cover for the troops sitting inside it, every Southie SF gets killed even by stray bullets

5. Killing every successor of Shekau is an achievement, SANDF failed to kill Seleka rebel leader since 2013.

6. SA-7 missile has 4.5 km altitude http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

The Starstreak is a joke at 1km altitude

7. RPG needs only one man to operate you dumbo dundee brain ! Even a 16 year old boy can use RPG alone by himself. You fool !

SF are not sit down and wait here anti-tank fighting crew, they are fast moving attack and get out small teams, facing more than one enemy tank like a T-90 will get them wiped out in 5 minutes. Many tanks now have ERA or composite armour that will defeat ATGM, then the SF presence is known and their lives will end that day. SF don't engage in anti-tank missions as a specialty. They are trained to be riflemen.

8. SANDF brigadier general says there was no sniper record kill, and that kills the story, it becomes mere Wikipedia propaganda formulated by SANDF men to romance their own egos

9. It is on record that SANDF special forces refused to fire one bullet in Bangui, according to your own country's sources. They ran away.

10. There is NO RECORD of any combat achievement of current South African special forces in the past 20 years. Old men have retired, dead.

.
Nigerian VBL is FULLY AMPHIBIOUS.....let us see your Hornet do amphibious crossing with your SF troops drowning in the river or lake

Our VBL can be used to drop our SF many kilometers off coast line and swim the sea to land and drive to target area WITHOUT NEED OF A BOAT like your submarine deployed SF who will have ZERO access to land vehicle transport....I guess that carry MILAN anti-tank missile launchers across water too and get it soaked wet and kill all the electrical components
.

agaugust:
.
Nigerian VBL is FULLY AMPHIBIOUS.....let us see your Hornet do amphibious crossing with your SF troops drowning in the river or lake

Our VBL can be used to drop our SF many kilometers off coast line and swim the sea to land and drive to target area WITHOUT NEED OF A BOAT like your submarine deployed SF who will have ZERO access to land vehicle transport....I guess that carry MILAN anti-tank missile launchers across water too and get it soaked wet and kill all the electrical components [code][/code]
.

Hornet and cobra are two different vehicles which are used for different purposes. Your practice is now tantamount to comparing apples with oranges. Hornet was purposefully designed for special forces and VBL is just an IFV. With VBL you cannot maneuver and jump in and out in offensive mode. It means you will remain trapped inside for the rest of your trip. VBL is only good for ordinary traditional forces.

light, fast, air-deployable and amphibious.
all hail the Nigerian military.

lionel4power:
light, fast, air-deployable and amphibious.

all hail the Nigerian military.

Amphibious vehicles comes with a hefty price to pay. They are a lot riskier and do not use enough armour to protect your troops from anti-tank rounds. AK47 rounds can pierce it like it was just made of fibre glass especially when the enermy can catch it crossing the river or lake

FighterPilot:



Amphibious vehicles comes with a hefty price to pay. They are a lot riskier and do not use enough armour to protect your troops from anti-tank rounds. AK47 rounds can pierce it like it was just made of fibre glass especially when the enermy can catch it crossing the river or lake

what are you saying? can your hornet protect troops from anti tanks? the cobra has all round protection from all calibers of personal and squad served weapons.

lionel4power:
what are you saying? can your hornet protect troops from anti tanks? the cobra has all round protection from all calibers of personal and squad served weapons.

There you go again comparing apples with oranges. Hornet is for special forces and is not designed for a sole purpose of providing protection, rather for manuevrable offensive that requires operators to jump in and out of vehicle during heavy fire support. Compare VBL to ratel or any IFV and not Hornet because they are completely not on the same class.

agaugust:


1. Fool, HALO jump is a simple parachute jump, even Wikipedia explains it. Nothing special there, fool.

2. Does your submarine land on coast land to insert troops? No ! You drop them off at sea far off where water is deep and the SF travel the remaining distance by inflatable boat . Nigeria has many X-38 stealth combat catamaran specially built for SF insertions in covert ops.

3. Trekking 500 km does not win any soldier a fight. Can you fight and kill the enemy? How many kilometers did US Navy seals trek to kill Osama Bin Laden? 0 km. We are talking about SF in combat not olympics walk competition. BTWN, all evidence shows Nigerian SF have more stamina, we have compared SA SF and your men are weaker in quality of physical stamina training. Wanna repeat that photo show ?

4. VBL carries all manner of weapons and equipment from cannon to missiles, auto grenade launchers to anti-aircraft missiles and radar.

The Hornets deployed by SANDF have only machine guns, no missile or rockets, we saw them in Bangui. You too were posting Hornet variants you don't have, so I too posted VBL weapons options confirmed with photos.

The VBL can be parachute dropped . Nigeria too has all those MGL, AGL, knee mortar, anti-material rifle blah blah blah. Why the noise?

Who told you VBL is not a specialty SF vehicle you dummy? See the display photo below at a special forces equipment show, VBL + SF black amphibious boat and the SF troop on it ! Mumu. The Hornet is a stupiiid SF vehicle that cannot swim and is exposed with no cover for the troops sitting inside it, every Southie SF gets killed even by stray bullets

5. Killing every successor of Shekau is an achievement, SANDF failed to kill Seleka rebel leader since 2013.

6. SA-7 missile has 4.5 km altitude http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

The Starstreak is a joke at 1km altitude

7. RPG needs only one man to operate you dumbo dundee brain ! Even a 16 year old boy can use RPG alone by himself. You fool !

SF are not sit down and wait here anti-tank fighting crew, they are fast moving attack and get out small teams, facing more than one enemy tank like a T-90 will get them wiped out in 5 minutes. Many tanks now have ERA or composite armour that will defeat ATGM, then the SF presence is known and their lives will end that day. SF don't engage in anti-tank missions as a specialty. They are trained to be riflemen.

8. SANDF brigadier general says there was no sniper record kill, and that kills the story, it becomes mere Wikipedia propaganda formulated by SANDF men to romance their own egos

9. It is on record that SANDF special forces refused to fire one bullet in Bangui, according to your own country's sources. They ran away.

10. There is NO RECORD of any combat achievement of current South African special forces in the past 20 years. Old men have retired, dead.

1. LOL he thinks HALO is simple

2. What is the RANGE of the X-38?

3. Lol "what does stealth insertion have to do with special forces work" Your understanding of SF work is that of a childs - 99% of what they do is NOT combat

4. Your VBLS dont carry any of that equipment. I posted an SANDF Hornet - or can you not see the soldiers in the background? Blind man!
- who said the VBL can be paradropped? Citations please
- big VBL is not an SF platform... again, go figure out the difference between SF and SOF you fvcking pleb


5. "killed" the same guy 3 times

6. From your link:

The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4). The SA-7b has a slant range of about 4.2 km, a ceiling of about 2300 meters
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

Starstreak can hit targets up to 5km ceiling.

Please dont come here and compare anceint MANPADS to the most advanced system in the world.

7. No, no to everything you have said you utter clown.

8. Apart from the soldiers on the ground who confirmed it. Citations have been posted.

9. Please cite where it says the Recces refused to fight

10. Apart from the world record sniper kill and other accomplishments in the DRC?

Stop wasting my time with assinine arguments

agaugust:
.
[s]Nigerian VBL is FULLY AMPHIBIOUS.....let us see your Hornet do amphibious crossing with your SF troops drowning in the river or lake

Our VBL can be used to drop our SF many kilometers off coast line and swim the sea to land and drive to target area WITHOUT NEED OF A BOAT like your submarine deployed SF who will have ZERO access to land vehicle transport....I guess that carry MILAN anti-tank missile launchers across water too and get it soaked wet and kill all the electrical components[/s]
.

Citations please that the VBL can be deployed at sea

agaugust:


[s]Your SA Police SF/SOF are there making videos of hanging on helicopters while your entire country has streets full of roaming and rampaging assassins, armed robbers, murder gangs, etc.

Your country is the most crime infested and most bloody violent in Africa, yet you have special task force police failing in your own backyard.

Last time I checked, Rwandan assassins invaded South Africa, entered a major city metropolis of Johannesburg, executed an operation, killed a top VIP and escaped back to Rwanda, while your fancy video making SAPS, SF/SOF or special police was turned into a bunch of useless dummies on home soil by ordinary Rwandan criminals[/s]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/02/rwanda-former-spy-chief-karegeya-murdered-kagame
.

Implying counter-intelligence has anything to do with SOF units

watch the video - its live combat you assclown

fact is:

SAPS-STF > Nigerian SOF/SF units

agaugust:
.
[s]PHOTO 1 : South African Hornet vehicle with no safe armour protection....SF gets killed by AK-47 from distance, exposed

PHOTO 2 : Nigerian VBL vehicle with 100% all round safe armour protection.....SF fully bullet proof protected

Who is better equipped with special forces light air deployable vehicles? Nigerian army[/s] !

VBL is not an SF/SOF unit

Apples and oranges.

agaugust:
.
PHOTO 1 : South African Hornet vehicle with no safe armour protection....SF gets killed by AK-47 from distance, exposed

PHOTO 2 : Nigerian VBL vehicle with 100% all round safe armour protection.....SF fully bullet proof protected

Who is better equipped with special forces light air deployable vehicles? Nigerian army !

O, so the lighter, smaller and more heavily armed vehicle that carries more men that was designed specifically for use by SF/SOF is not as good as the VBL because the bigger, poorly armed vehical that carries less men?

Not to mention that the Wasp is not only lighter but has a significantly more powerfull engine (70KW VBL v 100KW Wasp) meaning it has better performance - which is what SF need.

While the Wasp is specifically designed to be parachute deployable.... no mention of simular capabilities are made for the VBL

[size=15pt]Lets play a game: Pick the one that is not like the rest [/size]

FighterPilot:


There you go again comparing apples with oranges. Hornet is for special forces and is not designed for a sole purpose of providing protection, rather for manuevrable offensive that requires operators to jump in and out of vehicle during heavy fire support. Compare VBL to ratel or any IFV and not Hornet because they are completely not on the same class.

no your the person not understanding the concept here.

the otokar cobra is a multipurpose utility vehicle. air-transportable and fast. can be air-dropped and all round protected.

perfect for insertion.

lionel4power:
no your the person not understanding the concept here.

the otokar cobra is a multipurpose utility vehicle. air-transportable and fast. can be air-dropped and all round protected.

perfect for insertion.

Damn man, cobra can never be used as operators specialised vehicle because it does not meet the requirements. It is just only good for the army dummy. It is not open.

The supercat HMT special forces vehicle is good but is not for rapid deployment. That's one thing I don't like it for.



http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/british_company_supacat_selected_for_australian_special_operations_vehicle_with_hmt_extenda_2304121.html

FighterPilot:
The supercat HMT special forces vehicle is good but is not for rapid deployment. That's one thing I don't like it for.



http://www.armyrecognition.com/april_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry/british_company_supacat_selected_for_australian_special_operations_vehicle_with_hmt_extenda_2304121.html

There is nothing good about the Supacat special forces vehicle.

Henry120:


There is nothing good about the Supacat special forces vehicle.

Dont worry SAS and Royal Marine Commandos... you are all wrong!

Why?

Because Henry120 says so!

Patchesagain:


Dont worry SAS and Royal Marine Commandos... you are all wrong!

Why?

Because Henry120 says so!

Do you even apply independent reasoning at all?

It just seems as though you never weigh options. It's an unfortunate method of reasoning.



You should instead ask, what are your reasons? Don't start making comments like..... So SAS and Royal marine commandos are all wrong, and you are right, it's illiterate to do that.

Think independently.

Henry120:


Do you even apply independent reasoning at all?

It just seems as though you never weigh options. It's an unfortunate method of reasoning.

You should instead ask, what are your reasons? Don't start making comments like..... So SAS and Royal marine commandos are all wrong, and you are right, it's illiterate to do that.

Think independently.

An unfortunate reasoning?

Ok me reasoning is this:

1. The SAS and RM Commando's are professionals, lead by professionals and have decades of institutional experience as well as access to reams of information that we do not.
2. Henry120 is a civilian, with no military training and a pretty blatant bias

Who could be wrong and who could be right?

Yes, I have independent reasoning, and the vehicle in question is perfect for the role that it is envisioned to full - confirmed by the fact that they have adopted it. Also confirmed by your comments about the class of vehical on beegugugs blog.

Also, I dont think you know what illiterate means you ingrate

Patchesagain:


An unfortunate reasoning?

Ok me reasoning is this:

1. The SAS and RM Commando's are professionals, lead by professionals and have decades of institutional experience as well as access to reams of information that we do not.
2. Henry120 is a civilian, with no military training and a pretty blatant bias

Who could be wrong and who could be right?

Yes, I have independent reasoning, and the vehicle in question is perfect for the role that it is envisioned to full - confirmed by the fact that they have adopted it. Also confirmed by your comments about the class of vehical on beegugugs blog.

Also, I dont think you know what illiterate means you ingrate

Yet again, Patrick is completely disillusioned. Your lack of understanding is your un-doing not mine.

On the whole, you consistently fail to apply independent reasoning , you are also fond of jumping into conclusions.

This, been a another example.


Let to ask proper questions.

FighterPilot:




Damn man, cobra can never be used as operators specialised vehicle because it does not meet the requirements. It is just only good for the army dummy. It is not open.

dumb fool so there's a requirementt? is it your father that made the those requirement. you do knw that every country can adapt its vehicles for its own purpose and the otokar cobra is a multipurpose armoured vehicle.
.
.
.
now what do you understand by 'multipurpose' my boy?

Henry120:


Yet again, Patrick is completely disillusioned. Your lack of understanding is your un-doing not mine.

On the whole, you consistently fail to apply independent reasoning , you are also fond of jumping into conclusions.

This, been a another example.


Let to ask proper questions.

I see the fact that you have abandoned the topic at hand and have resorted to personal attacks to indicate that you realize you have been sunk.

Thanks for playing.

Patchesagain:


I see the fact that you have abandoned the topic at hand and have resorted to personal attacks to indicate that you realize you have been sunk.

Thanks for playing.

"Do you mean the subject you were un-willing to discuss?". You are always this disillusioned.

Henry120:


"Do you mean the subject you were un-willing to discuss?". You are always this disillusioned.

Been discussed in the other thread, you argued vehemently and then ended up reguritating what I said on beegugugs page.

So yes i am disillusioned with your argument.

*FYI, go look up the meaning of disillusioned, you are using it incorrectly - you illiterate.

Patchesagain:


Been discussed in the other thread, you argued vehemently and then ended up reguritating what I said on beegugugs page.

So yes i am disillusioned with your argument.

*FYI, go look up the meaning of disillusioned, you are using it incorrectly - you illiterate.

Again, your inability to apply an independent thought process is astonishing. No different from a "zombie".


The word appropriately describes your delusional, borderline unstable state.

Always learn to ask questions.

Henry120:


Again, your inability to apply an independent thought process is astonishing. No different from a "zombie".


The word appropriately describes your delusional, borderline unstable state

Always learn to ask questions.

That's not even close to the definition of "disillusioned" mate!!

jln115:

That's not even close to the definition of "disillusioned" mate!!

This is usually meant in a negative
way, as disillusioned people tend to be
bitter.

lionel4power:
dumb fool so there's a requirementt? is it your father that made the those requirement. you do knw that every country can adapt its vehicles for its own purpose and the otokar cobra is a multipurpose armoured vehicle.
.
.
.
now what do you understand by 'multipurpose' my boy?

I won't discuss military with chancers anymore. You clearly do not understand the difference between special forces vehicles and cobra. How will you ever escape mortar attacks with closed vehicle like cobra or even have your forces jump out of the vehicle in case of RPG attacks?

FighterPilot:


I won't discuss military with chancers anymore. You clearly do not understand the difference between special forces vehicles and cobra. How will you ever escape mortar attacks with closed vehicle like cobra or even have your forces jump out of the vehicle in case of RPG attacks?

- let me assume that you have brain (at my own peril).
.
.
.
- do you know that there is no clear notion of a 'special force vehicle'? its just concept. and its a recent concept.

-the SAS which we all agree is the originator of this concept, used ordinary willy's jeep airdropped from bombers in north African theater.

-anybody can decide to adapt ANY VEHICLE in its inventory to suit the airborne role since there is no clear understanding of this type.

-if you special force team is spotted by mortar squad, then you've screwed up big time.

-if you have to engage RPG team then your not really special forces. because special forces are known for stealth.

- maybe you should understand that being a South African makes you traditionally dumb.

- tanks we know, IFV we know, APC we know, Armoured cars we know, MRAP we know. please define 'special force vehicles'.

maybe u should reexamine your head.

lionel4power:

- let me assume that you have brain (at my own peril).
.
.
- do you know that there is no clear notion of a 'special force vehicle'? its just concept. and its a recent concept.

-the SAS which we all agree is the originator of this concept, used ordinary willy's jeep airdropped from bombers in north African theater.

- maybe you should understand that being a South African makes you traditionally dumb.

- tanks we know, IFV we know, APC we know, Armoured cars we know, MRAP we know. please define 'special force vehicles'.

maybe u should reexamine your head.

You are very right, these South Africans need urgent brain scan and transplant in a world class specialist hospital
.

Patchesagain:


Stop wasting my time with assinine arguments

I actually did not waste my own time, I did not reply to any of your comments today, it would be a waste of my Sunday evening. I wanna go have dinner with my friends rather than spend that time replying your stoopid comments from a deranged mind like a lunatiks'

I'm of the opinion that Lt. Gen. Buratai and his red collar committee made a tactical error in reinstating the 5000 soldiers that were accused by the previous of CoAS of wrongfully maneovering out of the theatre of combat.
Why do I say this?,simple: 3 days ago,Geidam was attacked by a detached unit of BH militants who were probably hoping for a quick raid on NA armoury.Instead of posing rapid coordinated resistance,the soldiers stationed at Geidam were absent from duty and later sluggish in repelling the BH probe(it isnt even worthy of being called an "attack",even after DHQ has provided all the necessary equipments and logistics,some elements of the army infantry force are still lackadiasical in their approach towards carrying out their constitutional duties.There was a reason for the former CoAS's action,I think we should learn to implement policies in continuity.
There is no substance in pouring out the bathwater along with the baby.