12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13  who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Enigma:

Now, it has to be realised that there is a conundrum and a much deeper debate with this point. This has been seen over the years in debates involving predestination v freewill, Calvinism v Arminianism etc etc etc. Those debates have their place and in a way we may for instance summarise one aspect thus: which comes first to the "born again" man --- faith before regeneration or regeneration before faith? But, leaving all that aside my main point is that it is not simply a person's decision e.g. after the so-called "altar call" that results in that person being "born again" but the action of God Almighty through the Holy Spirit.

Decisionism

Does God call you or do you call God?

By Dr. Ken Matto

(John 6:37 KJV) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The subject we are going to discuss is called “decisionism.” In the majority of churches today and in evangelistic circles, when there is a meeting and a sermon preached, normally at the end of the meeting the preacher will call for people to make a decision to accept Christ as their personal Savior. This is known as the invitation and those who want to accept Christ are asked to come to the front, then when all are gathered, the speaker will lead the group with a small prayer, something called, "the Sinner’s Prayer." The prayer normally consists of a confession of sin, a personal call for repentance, and asking Christ to be the savior of their life. These activities fall under the umbrella of "making a decision for Christ." I have been in meetings where the speaker asks everyone to bow their heads and he is the only one looking and then proceeds to do a long drawn out invitation. Basically, you will hear the term “anyone else” repeated about 50 times until someone else feels compelled to go down to the front. Whether that desire is from the Lord, or just a desire to shorten the invitation by giving the speaker one more notch on his spiritual gun belt, is yet to be seen.


WHAT IS IT?
The question we must pose is, “Is it possible for a person to make some kind of instant decision after a message and then accept Christ?” We must define what a decision is. This definition is from the Merriam Webster On Line Dictionary, “a: the act or process of deciding b: a determination arrived at after consideration.” The speaker gets up behind the podium on the dais and preaches a message. He then begins to ask people to evaluate the message and to determine in their own mind what they heard. As the speaker begins to make a small homily concerning the contents of the message, he begins to wind down with a compendium of the essence of the message. He then conveys to his hearers that since they have now heard the gospel preached, it is the utmost importance that they now act on what they heard. The speaker is calling for a determination after the people consider the message. He then declares that they must now make a decision concerning their eternal destiny. If they accept Christ, they will have eternal life from the moment they come forward and give their heart to Christ. Essentially, decisionism is the person making an on the spot decision about accepting Christ. However, the process which precedes the coming forward is quite subjective to the speaker’s ability to motivate people. When one looks at the Billy Graham Crusades in the earlier years or even Jimmy Swaggart at his height of popularity, these were two powerful speakers who had the ability to motivate.

The Billy Graham people have admitted they acknowledge that not everyone who came forward in the meetings became saved. Many were caught up in the moment. Decisionism is a flawed method and a very dangerous system to try and bring souls into the Kingdom with. The truth is that decisionism is a contrived technique and not a biblical system.

WHAT IS ITS HISTORY?
For the first 1800 years of the church, there was no such thing as decisionism when it concerned salvation. There have been debates between theological systems for hundreds of years where people make decisions concerning the materials they heard presented by the debaters. Decisionism for salvation was unheard of until the 1820’s when Charles Finney (1792-1875) introduced this method. Up until this time, when people heard a message which moved them, they did not do anything, because the Holy Spirit would convict them and then they would begin their Christian life. It was Charles Finney who preached that people have to make a decision. He was very heavy into free will and even believed that a Christian can actually lose their salvation in Heaven. Here is the quote from Finney’s Systematic Theology: “Saints in Heaven can by natural possibility apostatize and fall, and be lost. Were not this naturally possible, there would be no virtue in perseverance.” Finney even denied the blood atonement of Christ and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to those who became saved. Of course, if you do not believe that Christ imputes His righteousness, then a person would have to fall from Heaven, since they came in without a wedding garment.

(Mat 22:12-13 KJV) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. {13} Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The truth is the believer is blessed with the robe of Christ’s righteousness according to the following verse:

(Isa 61:10 KJV) I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Finney did not believe that Christ died for the sins of His People. He had come to believe that Christ just removed the hindrances which kept people from making those decisions to accept Christ. Based upon these beliefs held by Finney, I cannot see how this man could even claim to be a Christian. His belief system was one of an apostate unbeliever. When we look at today’s evangelistic methods, we see the technique of Finney being used on a large scale. Probably, the best example of Finney’s technique being used today is that of Billy Graham who calls people to make a decision for Christ. Even his magazine is called “Decision.”

If you enter any church today which espouses the Arminian doctrine of free will, you will find an invitation being given at the end of the service for people to come forward and accept Christ. Normally, accompanying this, you would be in for a fifteen-minute call.

CHARLOE:

After careful study i've come to discover the true meaning of been born again. Stop to think: have u ever wondered why Jesus did not go around preaching 'u must be born again?'. He only used the word/term in answer to nicodemus' question. He went about preaching d good news.
There's a difference between repentance and been re-born or born again. When u accept Jesus into your life and repent of your sins, u become a begotten child of God, ie u're likea child that is conceived/begotten in d womb. That child must stay in d womb for 9 months developing all it's body parts before it's finally born. That's how a christian must grow spiritually, developing spiritual gifts while on earth, dies and be reborn/born again in d resurrection before he is truely and finally born again! Then we shall be like Him, we shall have heavenly bodies and all d qualities of a born child of God that d whole 'creation of God groan, like a woman in labour awaiting' (rom , we shall possess. Even Jesus in answer to nic's question went further to say 'he that is born of the flesh is flesh and he that is born of the spirit is spirit'- While on this earth, in this life, we 'are in the flesh (though not of it), born of d flesh, but after the resurrection we shall have spiritual bodies (born of the spirit).
Do u know that even Jesus himself was a begotten child of God while on earth? and became born again when He died and was resurrected? Even so we must pass thru this process to be like Him, and that's what water baptism symbolises.
Have u ever wondered while after been 'born again' we still fall sick, sin, lack etc It is simply becos we have not come to d fullness of God's image, born sons of God (pls read rom 8 thoroughly). When d sons of God are manifested, when we're finally re-born/born again (after d resurrection), we shall be like Him- super-human! There will be no more sickness, lack, even death shall be no more! This is where some churches miss it when they preach that once u're born again u can not fall sick, lack, die, etc that u become superhuman. We all know that while in this flesh, we can fall sick (paul, timothy etc where ill) and pass thru what any other human go thru.
Pls pardon me for not citing all relevant scriptures, just saw d topic and decided to contribute, cos i've been planning on starting a thread like this myself but have not had d time (though i'm sure u're familiar with most of d scriptures). I'll be back with relevant passages in d bible.

KunleOshob:

Very nice submissions which i tend to agree with and i actually once postulated this theory on a previous thread on this forum but the position was punctured when someone referred me to a scripture in which peter described believers as "born again" this implied it was supposed to be here and now and not in the after life. The verse is quoted below for your consideration:

1 Peter 1:22-23:

22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

From the above statements of peter it implies born again means someone that the soul has been purified and now has the spirit of God exhibited through unfeigned love to one and other and being incorruptible[holy]

Joagbaje:

Iro nla ni!

Joagbaje:

James 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is[b] able to save your souls.[/b]

KunleOshob:

I am not suprised at your comment after all members of your cult beleive that Peter did not have a full grasp of the Gospel of christ even though Jesus chose him as a leader amongst his disciples.

I am shocked you are quoting from the same James you earlier descibed as a "baby" christian. You would have done better to quote from your "more authuritative" rapshody of realities or better still any of pastor chris teachings.

Joagbaje:

I did acknowledge that James had great principles , you may go back and read them. But his depth of James revelation knowledge is shallow , compared to Paul's . John the baptist had great principles too. but I am greater than john. How do you reconcile the differences in James teaching and Pauls teachings, or you didnt observe any conflict?

Joagbaje:

I did acknowledge that James had great principles , you may go back and read them. But his depth of James revelation knowledge is shallow , compared to Paul's . John the baptist had great principles too. but I am greater than john. How do you reconcile the differences in James teaching and Pauls teachings, or you didnt observe any conflict?

KunleOshob:

Greater than John indeed, i laugh in summersaulting spiritual tongues. You are that great and yet you are still doing boiboi to a very ignorant charlatan who Just sees te gospel as a meal tickect. Even your Oga is very shallow an his only area of specialization is in the debauchery of the bible and manipiulating it to say things it doesn't say and when scriptures are shown to clearly oppose his heretics he dimisses the scriptures and claims he has "revelation". yeye bunch of ignorant 419 charlatans. you better wake up and renounce this cult which you operate it and start seeking true salvation.

CHARLOE:

- can u be born again twice?
- if u can only be born again only once does that mean once u're born again u can go on commiting sin and still remain born again? (this is what some churches teach)
- if after been 'born again' u commit a sin, what happens then? Are u no longer born again? if u repent of that sin, are u now born again, again?
- why do we still fall sick, lack and experience what everybody pass thru even after been born again? (Saying 'am strong when u're sick doesn't change d fact u're sick!)
This is d era of grace quite alright, but is it a license to live our lives d way we deem fit? or are there God's laws we're to obey? laws that act as our mirror, to guide us. Concerning what peter said, know that Scripture interprets scripture. This is a topic that require wide and intensive study, not just taking one verse alone and building a belief around it while ignoring others. Like i said earlier, i'll make a comprehensive post this evening.

Joagbaje:


Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Joagbaje:

For your information , the only person that can sin is a christian!. What ever evil an unsaved man commits is not a sin. He is the embodiment of sin already! He cant be forgiven, but its only a christian that can sin and recieve forgiveness. No Child of God like to sin , but there is provision for him if he does.

Rom 3:23 for [size=16pt]all[/size] have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

aletheia:

Joagbaje, you have come again with your twisting of words: Three lies in your statement.1. Every man sins.2. Whatever evil an unsaved man commits is sin. Again Rom 3:23
3. He can't be forgiven? Now you are God to declare that a man cannot be forgiven. The implication of this your statement is that the vicarious atonement of Jesus is not enough. Only one sin is will not be forgiven.
4. You corrupt the grace of God and turn it into a licence for sin by your statement: "its only a christian that can sin and recieve forgiveness"

Joagbaje:

You shoould know by now I dont waste my time responding to people like you again. maybe someone else will help your ignorance.

2 Tim. 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Anybody out there