Michael004:
Person wey dey die and no won die will open up to you before na. Your counterpart from foreign country don't engage in such question. And they get friendly with the patient. I still do not get the relevant of that question. I have never been admitted into hospital all my life and I do not go to hospital except the day I contacted gonorhia from one girl like that. Even people told me to take harb, but I prefer injection, that was why I went to hospital. I still do not know the relevant of that question.

I usually dont involve myself in threads like this as it acheives nothing. But i feel you need to be educated.

Doctors get family history because of the importance of genetics as cause of a disease. Doctors arent babalawos, they dont conjure whats wrong with you but investigate. If a woman presents with a lump in her breast and a doctor asks what killed her deceased mother. You think hez just asking for fun? Hez trying to knw if the mother died of cancer related illness to support his suspicions. If the old woman you are sayin is coughin extremely and she tells the doctor her husband died of tuberculosis. Even you dat you arent a doctor, what will be ur provisional diagnosis?

And ur accusation dat foreigners dont do that. Thats pure ignorance. Download Norman Browse Clinical Surgery. It's the gold standard for doctors over the world written by Americans. Check Family history under the first chapter and educate yourself.

Its easier to rant off ignorantly on the internet but it doznt make you particularly intelligent. Educate yourself bro

TemiGod:
*STUPIDITY OF OUR TIME THAT MUST BE ADDRESSED*


*Medicine and pharmacy students are collecting around #95000 or above during NYSC while Engineering students are collecting the same money as that of other faculties whose courses are run for four years. What is the benefits an Engineering students stand to get from his five years spell on campus with extremely difficult courses he took most of which are mass failure courses, the rate at which cannot be found in other faculties? That is what I called a faulty educational policy.

No one pays you anything as a reward for the difficulties you had as an undergraduate. Payment means offering money in exchange for something of value. What value does a typical Nigerian engineering graduate bring to the table during NYSC? The medical doctor actually performs healthcare services, for which he/she is paid. Same as the pharmacist. What engineering services do you offer as a corper engineer? The hallmark of a good engineer is his ability to figure out how things work, and make his decisions accordingly. This poster's inability to understand the most basic workings of market transactions is embarrassing - money is exchanged for goods and services that are deemed to be of value.

TemiGod:

The machines and tools used by both Pharmacist and medical doctors were designed by the engineers which means without the engineers the field of medicine and pharmacy cannot thrive. No Country's development is .measured by the work of medical doctor and pharmacist per se but by their production power which is strictly engineering dependent. That explain why Nigeria and other African countries are lagging behind in technological development. No country developed by treating her engineers like the way Nigeria treats theirs.*

* the imported equipment used by healthcare professionals that were designed and manufactured by foreign engineers*. I agree that the state of engineering practice in Nigeria is very poor. There is dire need for improvement.

TemiGod:

*After taking MTH 101, 102, 104, 201 and 202, EEE 201, 202, MEE 203, 204, 205 and 206 which are all mass failure courses because of their application in science and technology of which no courses in every other faculties (medicine and pharmacy excluded) can be compared with them, the government still deem it fit to pay me #19800 that he paid political science students, economics, education students, Law students, English students, dramatic art students, accounting students and other non-technology students. An ordinary non technology students of tertiary institution has never failed any course throughout his time on campus except the extremely dull ones who cannot solve simple calculations and memorise simple theories. Continuation of such policy will never yield a positive development am afraid.*

Now we are back to this ridiculous rant about payment for undergraduate sufferings.

TemiGod:

*China developed by absolving into their economy their fresh Engineering graduates through giving them series of projects right from their time on campus to which they would find solutions to the problems (in project form) and that would in turn becomes their field of expertise they would dwell on with the government constructing an industry to that effect. That's how they developed.*

Finally, sense is being made. Engineering practice is Nigeria being plagued by a myriad of problems, among which are clueless government, poorly funded universities, bad teachers, and visionless engineering industry leaders. Maybe the government would have a clue if they received sensible advice from the industry leaders. As a relatively young engineer myself, I have been lucky to get involved in a couple of projects with multinationals. To this day, I wonder why the NSE cannot influence the government to mandate multinational and local engineering firms to employ a certain number of engineering interns and corpers as part of their crew for the project activities that have been going on in Nigeria within the last decade. Many young engineers are missing out on immense learning opportunities that would be crucial to their development. Inter-semester internships and the 1 year NYSC program present avenues for the consolidation of fresh theoretical knowledge with practical engineering experiences. Thereby providing solid foundations on which they can grow to become competent engineers who can contribute meaningfully to their societies.

All those implying that Nigerian engineers are useless are not being fair. Nigerian engineers in general today, are in many ways fighting a battle they were already losing from before they were born. Certain structures that can make them competitive with engineers from elsewhere are not yet in place. Engineering students can design and build anything. The question is: at what cost? If I build something for you at N10,000, and you can import something functionally similar for N3000, why on earth should you buy my product? There's so much to this issue of cost competitiveness in the context of globalisation than a simple response here will permit.


Also, the notion that an engineer has to be an inventor is wrong. The vast majority of engineers worldwide do not invent anything. Most successful engineers work with interdiscplinary teams of engineers, technicians/technologists finance professionals, safety professionals, lawyers, and so on, to build and maintain infrastructure that is useful to society. You can't get the funds for this infrastructure out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere. Surely not from the pockets of the lowly recent graduate engineer. It has to come from either government or investors who expect returns. How they carry out investments is not a very simple matter either.

The many difficulties that come with being an engineer in Nigeria has its consequences. A good number of the very bright ones get educational opportunities abroad. Upon completion of their studies, they remain overseas where they work as engineers. A few return to high paying jobs in Nigeria. Some others who stay put in Nigeria find ways to do well with providing their own services in spite of the difficulties. They are in fields such as IT, renewable energy, engineering consulting, project management, and so on. Some others leave the engineering field and go into management, finance and business development. The net effect of all these is that overall, engineers are not being felt significantly here. Even though many are doing very well for themselves.

I think there will be many opportunities for engineers in Nigeria in the not too distant future. A growing economy will have to invest heavily in infrastructural development at some point. Hopefully the NSE will reasonably influence local participation in the developmental projects. I think more energy should be spent on making the NSE function adequately. A properly functioning NSE will work on ways to improve funding for engineering education at the universities, and influence government policies that will contribute to building a body of highly competent engineers.

Nigeria engineers are pure waste of time, u guys deserve no special treatment, u don't know anything outside dy/dx.

Don't be carried away by that paltry sum doctors are paid during NYSC. There are more to life than that.. The last time I checked, there are no medical doctors in the list of top CEOs in Nigeria and even globally.
I don't even know any doctor who is a millionaire except those into politics.(At most the live a comfortable life)

ultron12345:

Dey there dey nack teeth.......no matter what, engineering students can never do as Much practicals as medical students.

Which stupid engineers, common road renovation, we have to waste our limited resources to import technicians from India and China.

Nigerian engineers are a waste of tax payers money (since government subsidized their training).

Since doctors are irrelevant, my prayer is that when you or a close relative urgently needs a doctor, you will not see any.

I can survive a day without doctor but you can't survive a day without something made by an Engineer.

Drguzzykola:


its obvious u are not here to solve the problem facing d fate of ur profession but rather to compare urself with health worker
keep comparing while the truth keep showing on white board..,,

indirectly u wont b bothered if medics arent treated d way they are been treated since they are the yardstick for the progress of ur profession..


oya since u wana argue lets start here,

how much did u spend on academics throughout ur stay in school , am sure only 3 class out of 6 class in medicine will pay it off.


did u take any oath/pledge while graduating to serve and deliver and we work by it that's even if u guys do induction self



oya let the association of engineering go on strike whether it will have any effect like wen doctors go on strike to show u how (I dont wanna say urent that relevant o though u started the bashing game)

u said medics are dull and bla bla bla,
am sure an average medic is smarter tthan ur so called engine guys, starting from grassroot, what was ur jamb score wen u gained admission, pls note without 290-300 now in jamb, u may not enter Medicine,
and u think we that got the 300 are dull compare tou tgat can easily gain admission with 230 in jamb, decieve urself,


yes , society pay u base on ur current contribution,,
an average Nigerian can do without an engineer for years but I doubt if u can compare that to the medical stuff ure talking about


every school have student health centre coz people need medical, did ur school hav tech centre which student can visit for one problem or d other.

lemme stop here ,
don't just let me start with u coz..

show nigeria u should b treated well, not this your comparison with medic , its a wrong motion

I know of someone who got MBBS with less than 200 Jamb score last year and someone who got it with 220 this year, Unijos precisely

did you forgot that person went to the University before you? those of them who are your mates, you will do NYSC before them and probably get employed and earn more than what they earn during their NYSC

jargo89:
I usually dont involve myself in threads like this as it acheives nothing. But i feel you need to be educated.

Doctors get family history because of the importance of genetics as cause of a disease. Doctors arent babalawos, they dont conjure whats wrong with you but investigate. If a woman presents with a lump in her breast and a doctor asks what killed her deceased mother. You think hez just asking for fun? Hez trying to knw if the mother died of cancer related illness to support his suspicions. If the old woman you are sayin is coughin extremely and she tells the doctor her husband died of tuberculosis. Even you dat you arent a doctor, what will be ur provisional diagnosis?

And ur accusation dat foreigners dont do that. Thats pure ignorance. Download Norman Browse Clinical Surgery. It's the gold standard for doctors over the world written by Americans. Check Family history under the first chapter and educate yourself.

Its easier to rant off ignorantly on the internet but it doznt make you particularly intelligent. Educate yourself bro

You have not educated me sir, Why asking for the number children and husband before treatment. Are they part of the treatment. Explain this function as a medical doctor. This is simple question.

so this a drama and debating thread...doctors are better than engineers..

for or against

onuhabel1:
I can survive a day without doctor but you can't survive a day without something made by an Engineer.

Apt.

This topic is good and many have spoken well but there is a point all of us have neglected. Medical Student graduates as a Medical Doctor who can practice directly after school because they are awarded the Profession Certificate and not just academic certificate... I mean MBBS. We Engineers are awarded Academic Certificate and we need like I think 5 years practice to be qualified to be certified as an Engineer by Coren. This is one of the main tussles. Nigeria Body that regulates Engineering profession missed it from that point. Had it been we Engineering Students graduates as an Engineer like Medicine Students who graduates as Doctors... this plight would be easy to fight.I wish COREN & NSE can look into this and change it.. even if it will require us to do an extra six month training or one yr training in an Engineering company to get certified as an Engineer b4 NYSC... it will help us. Many Engineering graduates have been lost to other field because of this problem. There are many jobs that demands a certified Engineer and U as a fresh graduate cannot apply.

Another thing that is also very key in this is that the entry level of most Engineering courses in our Universities is very low.... If U see Medicine Students beating their chest that they are better than us... they know what they are saying and it is valid because anybody cannot just say he wants to go and study medicine.. because the entry level is high. Pple with high IQ are those who make it to medicine. Engineering in our schl is full of many types of pple. So if this can be regulated it will help protect the Engineering profession and performance will not be an issue

Lastly I can see pple are saying they shud send Engineering Graduates to Engineering Companies. The question is how many Engineering Companies are in the local govt of Nigeria States since posting is done local govt by govt within a state. And besides because of low standard and low entry level to Engineering courses we have more graduates of Engineering than medicine... so where will they pack them to. If they pack every engineer to where industries are like Lagos, Sango Ota etc how will the main objective of NYSC be achieve which is promotion of national unity. The best they can do is to rotate it... like spend some months teaching and then go to another place for industrial experience since we are much and if standards can be upgraded and more industries are created then things will align and shape better.

And pls lets stop the comparison. Medicine and Engineering demands high IQ to study. Both use their brain. Whether U want to memorise or do analytical thinking... high intelligence is still needed.

Thanks

magicminister:
Loool... fighting over peanuts instead of thinking of how to innovate.
I made a 2.2 in economics from a federal university. There was no hope for me but now, I make atleast 350k per week. That is the minimum I make every week in Lagos.

This life scatter. My brother, just so your thing and let others do theirs. Even if they pay you 100knper month, after NYSc, you go still broke!

what kind of work be that bro...I wan learn oh

ultron12345:
All u said about u guys not going on holiday are nothing but LIES. Whether harmattan abi rain, u guys go on long holidays.

If u like kill urself, u cannot compare medicines practical with that of engineering.......if engineering does 1 practical, medicine does 10.

It is a well known fact that medical books are the most expensive. U are talking abt 100k, textbooks for pre clinical students cost about 70k-80k that's just for year 2 and first half of year 3. Not 2 add d huge gap between tuition of engineering and medical students.

Herbs have always existed.

Don't compare medical rehab with medicine........so u believe medicine does 2 courses in final year......hahaha.....joker of d century.........FYI, in clinical years, frm last half of year 3 till graduation, medical students don't do courses, they do posting. U can try any medical course and come and tell me hw they went.

Oga stop lying Abeg. not pre clinical it clinical textbook is 70-80k. My sister studied medicine. lying on social media. shame on you.

ultron12345:
All u said about u guys not going on holiday are nothing but LIES. Whether harmattan abi rain, u guys go on long holidays.

If u like kill urself, u cannot compare medicines practical with that of engineering.......if engineering does 1 practical, medicine does 10.

It is a well known fact that medical books are the most expensive. U are talking abt 100k, textbooks for pre clinical students cost about 70k-80k that's just for year 2 and first half of year 3. Not 2 add d huge gap between tuition of engineering and medical students.

Herbs have always existed.

Don't compare medical rehab with medicine........so u believe medicine does 2 courses in final year......hahaha.....joker of d century.........FYI, in clinical years, frm last half of year 3 till graduation, medical students don't do courses, they do posting. U can try any medical course and come and tell me hw they went.

Also don't know what university you graduated from but in Uniben. it's 3 courses in final year. Surgery, Child health and Mental health.

shankara7:
Don't be carried away by that paltry sum doctors are paid during NYSC. There are more to life than that.. The last time I checked, there are no medical doctors in the list of top CEOs in Nigeria and even globally.
I don't even know any doctor who is a millionaire except those into politics.(At most the live a comfortable life)

savage. I think they make money first.... and they he who laugh last laugh louder....

Rubbish. What have engineering graduates in Nigeria been producing or invented? Can you even work on machine learning and create and program a simple robot? Just making noise here on Nairaland. Most engineering students in Nigeria are crap except few. Besides, Doctors don't earn much especially after their NYSC, they are among the least paid with less time for themselves. It's a selfless profession.

seunH:


Sir, you summarize all what I wanted to say, for a start I'm a 500 level vet medical student and our allowance are also higher, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give honor to whom honor is due. Sir, I personally have a deep and profound respect for Engineers, sincerely it is not easy. From experience so far, you can survive in medical school (I studied Human Anatomy in my first degree) if you have a photographic memory, maybe have some little glitches in surgery but I doubt if photographic memory can help you in engineering. For example, I was speaking to an engineering student and he was giving me an instance of the nature of their questions. He said in some courses, they just give the questions, NO formula, you would have to think of the appropriate formula to use, derive the formula yourself before finally applying it to solve the question, Sir a dullard cannot do the above rather it takes someone with a high IQ. That is why I will always duff my hat for a 1st class engineering student. Furthermore inasmuch as we need doctors we also need engineers even more (my opinon tho), How? The last time I went to the hospital for treatment without exaggerating was more than 5yrs ago, not that I didn't fall sick but most of us still have an idea of what to do if we fall sick it is only if serious we go to the hospital. But for engineering can you count the amount of times you've visited a mechanic, electrician or even a generator repairer just this year? I'm sure we know the answer. The OP has a lot of valid points up there. But the problem facing their profession is quackery and laziness from the part of their association. If laws can be put in place, for example: ensuring all mechanic workshops are duely registered and licensed and the requirement is at least one B Tech or B Engineering holder incharge of that place, imagine the demand we would see for engineers (especially now that cars are getting advanced by the day). Also for civil engineering, No Building or construction should be approved by the government without showing the list of those who would work on the site, which must include a licensed civil engineer (B Tech or B Engineering). And many more opportunities I believe engineers and engineering students can add. In conclusion if the above is done, the demand for engineers both Nysc and Post Nysc would increase and their dues would be duly paid. Thank you

am a vet. too, but in as much as engineering students go through a lot of further maths courses and some other engineering courses, you can't compare their stress to human medicine talk more of veterinary medicine. And on the basis of practicals, no course I would say in the Nigerian educational system that exposes someone to rigorous practicals or gives you a rapt knowledge of your field of study like veterinary medicine, housemanship is not really important because of how equipped you are knowledge and practical wise. Am not saying engineering is a walkover but as far as Nigerian is concerned, engineering is more of paper work, hitting the 5.0 point, less or no practical and nothing more.

ultron12345:
It is jealousy and envy that will kill u.

Firstly, how many years did engineers spend in school pre nysc, just 5 years. Compare it to the number of years doctors spend in school pre nysc, 6 years, plus extra year for housemanship. And don't forget that 5 out of doctors 6 years are continuous, there's no semester break, unlike engineering students that have so many semester breaks and holidays, so by medical school standards, engineers spend less than 3 years in school.

Compare the cost of studying medicine and the cost of studying engineering, they pay higher tuition and their textbooks are d most expensive.

Finally, note that ur pay is based on ur productivity. If nysc engineers were serving in engineering and manufacturing facilities as professional engineers, then maybe their pay can be increased, but since they are working as teachers, then they ought to b paid as teachers. Nysc doctors serve in hospitals, doing their jobs as professional doctors, therefore, they are paid as doctors.


And for saying that doctors are useless without u pple because u made d machines they use, are u aware that u will not be alive today without doctors because sickness and disease for don kill u.

And how dare u compare mth and mee courses with with medical courses, engineering courses are childs play when compared withe medical courses. Seems u haven't seen ANA301 and PTH courses.

Fvck u doctor! We study the hardest! We are smartest! We are engineers,we can do anything.

seunH:


Sir, you summarize all what I wanted to say, for a start I'm a 500 level vet medical student and our allowance are also higher, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give honor to whom honor is due. Sir, I personally have a deep and profound respect for Engineers, sincerely it is not easy. From experience so far, you can survive in medical school (I studied Human Anatomy in my first degree) if you have a photographic memory, maybe have some little glitches in surgery but I doubt if photographic memory can help you in engineering. For example, I was speaking to an engineering student and he was giving me an instance of the nature of their questions. He said in some courses, they just give the questions, NO formula, you would have to think of the appropriate formula to use, derive the formula yourself before finally applying it to solve the question, Sir a dullard cannot do the above rather it takes someone with a high IQ. That is why I will always duff my hat for a 1st class engineering student. Furthermore inasmuch as we need doctors we also need engineers even more (my opinon tho), How? The last time I went to the hospital for treatment without exaggerating was more than 5yrs ago, not that I didn't fall sick but most of us still have an idea of what to do if we fall sick it is only if serious we go to the hospital. But for engineering can you count the amount of times you've visited a mechanic, electrician or even a generator repairer just this year? I'm sure we know the answer. The OP has a lot of valid points up there. But the problem facing their profession is quackery and laziness from the part of their association. If laws can be put in place, for example: ensuring all mechanic workshops are duely registered and licensed and the requirement is at least one B Tech or B Engineering holder incharge of that place, imagine the demand we would see for engineers (especially now that cars are getting advanced by the day). Also for civil engineering, No Building or construction should be approved by the government without showing the list of those who would work on the site, which must include a licensed civil engineer (B Tech or B Engineering). And many more opportunities I believe engineers and engineering students can add. In conclusion if the above is done, the demand for engineers both Nysc and Post Nysc would increase and their dues would be duly paid. Thank you

Hmmm! I like your answer. The problem stems from the fact that the regulatory bodies for Engineering are performing below par. I am underemployed, yet, I get mails from NSE and COREN about paying close to N200, 000 for a seminar which will take place in far away Abuja. How much more undergraduates? I have never seen anything like 'FREE ONE MONTH TRAINING FOR GRADUATE ENGINEERS'. They do not mind whatever happens as long as dues are paid. Now, see the issue of Fashola handling ministries that is made up of mostly Engineers but what did these bodies do? Nothing. Of course, someone would say management/administration has nothing to do with your course of study but can you try that in LAW schools or can you try that with the medical body? Imagine an Audu Ogbeh being a minister of health or a Barth Nnaji being an AGF. Honestly, I have long given up on these regulatory bodies. How about SON? See eh, many things are upside down and like someone once told me here - https://www.nairaland.com/1951333/nigerian-engineer-oil-gas-career - it really has to start from the top. I cry whenever Explorers put up threads showing what my counterparts the world over are doing, their advancements in these Engineering fields but what can I do much? Power is virtually nonexistent, policies are inconsistent etc. I am only managing my small designs I know how to do and think up concepts for the future and how it impacts the populace. If it were possible to edit what I wrote in the link, I'd have done that as someone becomes knowledgeable as he ages.

It's sad that people think Engineers are useless or that they do not stay awake for most of the hours. Try working in a firm that involves you thinking about a solution to a problem that has completely shut down production and see if it is not equivalent to doctors who are on calls for longer hours? I really understand the OP's frustration as one becomes angry at the system and the regulatory bodies while staying longer in a place that adds little or no value to your productivity. This is not to undermine the efforts of the doctors as that is what I probably would have specialized in if I was not interested in Engineering.

Oh, there is a saying that if a doctor makes a mistake, a life is lost; if an engineer does, many lives are lost but if a teacher does, generations are lost (of which the teaching profession is one of the most neglected in this country and we are really seeing the effects).

sweetgala:


Integration and differentiation become a function by 3rd year similar to addition or division you would need to be able to perform it at will in order to solve a part in a bigger body. Abstract Algebra and use of complex numbers becomes a norm.

I studied maths under the European Fetac syllabus so I don't know what Nigerian university systems are like but maths is complex.
But even at that I found fluid engineering and control systems more difficult because 2nd and 3rd order differentiation meets electrical systems, frequency response etc

I never got more than a B- in control systems in all 5 years.

All my maths lecturers in university had doctorate degrees unlike mechanical design and energy systems lecturers

I hated Control System too. But my favourite was Engineering Drawing and Strength of Materials. All these courses that you mentioned, been thinking of going back to refresh my memory on them again.

sweetgala:




You have hit the nail on the head. I'm a mechanical engineer thou I was not trained in Nigeria the principles are same.

In engineering it's either you pass and do well in your exams or you fail. The answer is either correct or wrong if your follow the process.

I can remember my 3rd year maths which required a minimum B grade to progress to the next year irrespective of how well in my other subjects, I failed it (C grade) inemester exams and took a repeat august and got A the difference was I went over the course work and came to understand the principles in detail so I could apply it at will. We are talking over 20 answer pages I used in that exam and I got all questions correct.

Anyone who says engineering technicals are minor is foolish to say the least.

My final year thesis was on biomedical engineering I did a research on spinal deformity correction using pedicle screws. It was grueling and I had to read hundreds of medical journals and the project was supported by a respected surgeon a friend did a PhD in same field.

The engineering industry in Nigeria is not protected, Chinese and Indian firms even local companies are bringing foreign technicians with Diploma to manage BSc holders some of these technicians themselves have minimal experience, the government need to make it mandatory that all companies operating in Nigeria must invest in training of local engineers for project management positions.

Interesting thesis you have there. I admire that.

ultron12345:
upon all what u go through, what do u guys have to show for it, common renovation of 500m road, Nigerian engineers can't do, we have to bring engineers from India.

Una no know anything, that y Nigerians have deemed it right that u work as teachers during nysc

You know, you are insulting a lot of people. I've already stated above that excessive importation by traders is what has killed of every engineering establishment.

mekyno777:
@SoldierBoy1
fellow, relax. I have an idea or a solution.
1, pls ask him which proffession produced all the medical instruments/machines/equipment he uses, that make his work so easy.
2, Can they accept u ppl exchange/ interchange 2 courses for fun?
I mean, u offer 2 of his 2yr courses (in addition to ur normal yr engr'g courses) and while he does 2 of ur 2 engr'g courses (plus his normal med courses).
Pls make sure u give him any of these 2: fluid analysis, machine design, tech drawing, engr'g maths and (one 2yr maths u go solve d whole course without seeing figure/number; it has real analysis as well).
Forget matter and enjoy ur world na our unorganise NSE keep us for this condition

My Engg fellow u funny I swear, but na true you talk...... Those courses you mention no be beans I swear..... Na NSE no carry our matter for head WELL but still we go enjoy ourselves with our God given ability as Engineers .

TemiGod it shows you are already frustrated and your success in life depends on other peoples earning. They pay Dr 95k while I make x2 of that from my business working anytime I like . can you please tell what you have invented and where you are currently doing your Nysc? You are a teacher expecting to collect 95k for course of 5yrs while MBBS is 7 years . u dey mad ni. Abi which kain rubbish be that. You know think of how to make it in life. keep thinking of Nysc allawee that ends after a year. Is dangote making money by certificate or is bill gate a graduate? What of jack ma? Abeg hug transformer if you cannot think of how to make your own money

I can survive a day without doctor but you can't survive a day without something made by an Engineer.

by foreign engineers u mean

OGHENAOGIE:
this post self....so wat of other people how much do we value them both engineering and medicine students are all mad to me...every body deserve fair treatment as far education is concerned wat is special in medicine self...wole Soyinka our Nobel laureate is an expert in literature yet idiots relegate other discipline to d background....today we don't teach history in our schools from primary to secondary....hw much more tertiary... A sane country give value to everyone cos evry tin and sector is important in a country....

Allow then to continue to spill trash. we live in a connected society where everyone needs the other. imagine if the farmers who cultivate the food we eat decide to feel too important, i wonder what the engineers and doctors will eat, probably each other.

Benwems:

Also don't know what university you graduated from but in Uniben. it's 3 courses in final year. Surgery, Child health and Mental health.

LIES.

Feraz:
Hmmm! I like your answer. The problem stems from the fact that the regulatory bodies for Engineering are performing below par. I am underemployed, yet, I get mails from NSE and COREN about paying close to N200, 000 for a seminar which will take place in far away Abuja. How much more undergraduates? I have never seen anything like 'FREE ONE MONTH TRAINING FOR GRADUATE ENGINEERS'. They do not mind whatever happens as long as dues are paid. Now, see the issue of Fashola handling ministries that is made up of mostly Engineers but what did these bodies do? Nothing. Of course, someone would say management/administration has nothing to do with your course of study but can you try that in LAW schools or can you try that with the medical body? Imagine an Audu Ogbeh being a minister of health or a Barth Nnaji being an AGF. Honestly, I have long given up on these regulatory bodies. How about SON? See eh, many things are upside down and like someone once told me here - https://www.nairaland.com/1951333/nigerian-engineer-oil-gas-career - it really has to start from the top. I cry whenever Explorers put up threads showing what my counterparts the world over are doing, their advancements in these Engineering fields but what can I do much? Power is virtually nonexistent, policies are inconsistent etc. I am only managing my small designs I know how to do and think up concepts for the future and how it impacts the populace. If it were possible to edit what I wrote in the link, I'd have done that as someone becomes knowledgeable as he ages.

It's sad that people think Engineers are useless or that they do not stay awake for most of the hours. Try working in a firm that involves you thinking about a solution to a problem that has completely shut down production and see if it is not equivalent to doctors who are on calls for longer hours? I really understand the OP's frustration as one becomes angry at the system and the regulatory bodies while staying longer in a place that adds little or no value to your productivity. This is not to undermine the efforts of the doctors as that is what I probably would have specialized in if I was not interested in Engineering.

Oh, there is a saying that if a doctor makes a mistake, a life is lost; if an engineer does, many lives are lost but if a teacher does, generations are lost (of which the teaching profession is one of the most neglected in this country and we are really seeing the effects).

I hated Control System too. But my favourite was Engineering Drawing and Strength of Materials. All these courses that you mentioned, been thinking of going back to refresh my memory on them again.

Interesting thesis you have there. I admire that.

Wow we different o.... Control systems was mad but I somehow loved it

uuzba:


You know, you are insulting a lot of people. I've already stated above that excessive importation by traders is what has killed of every engineering establishment.

they import because our engineers cannot produce

GiantParrot:


No one pays you anything as a reward for the difficulties you had as an undergraduate. Payment means offering money in exchange for something of value. What value does a typical Nigerian engineering graduate bring to the table during NYSC? The medical doctor actually performs healthcare services, for which he/she is paid. Same as the pharmacist. What engineering services do you offer as a corper engineer? The hallmark of a good engineer is his ability to figure out how things work, and make his decisions accordingly. This poster's inability to understand the most basic workings of market transactions is embarrassing - money is exchanged for goods and services that are deemed to be of value.



* the imported equipment used by healthcare professionals that were designed and manufactured by foreign engineers*. I agree that the state of engineering practice in Nigeria is very poor. There is dire need for improvement.


Now we are back to this ridiculous rant about payment for undergraduate sufferings.


Finally, sense is being made. Engineering practice is Nigeria being plagued by a myriad of problems, among which are clueless government, poorly funded universities, bad teachers, and visionless engineering industry leaders. Maybe the government would have a clue if they received sensible advice from the industry leaders. As a relatively young engineer myself, I have been lucky to get involved in a couple of projects with multinationals. To this day, I wonder why the NSE cannot influence the government to mandate multinational and local engineering firms to employ a certain number of engineering interns and corpers as part of their crew for the project activities that have been going on in Nigeria within the last decade. Many young engineers are missing out on immense learning opportunities that would be crucial to their development. Inter-semester internships and the 1 year NYSC program present avenues for the consolidation of fresh theoretical knowledge with practical engineering experiences. Thereby providing solid foundations on which they can grow to become competent engineers who can contribute meaningfully to their societies.

All those implying that Nigerian engineers are useless are not being fair. Nigerian engineers in general today, are in many ways fighting a battle they were already losing from before they were born. Certain structures that can make them competitive with engineers from elsewhere are not yet in place. Engineering students can design and build anything. The question is: at what cost? If I build something for you at N10,000, and you can import something functionally similar for N3000, why on earth should you buy my product? There's so much to this issue of cost competitiveness in the context of globalisation than a simple response here will permit.


Also, the notion that an engineer has to be an inventor is wrong. The vast majority of engineers worldwide do not invent anything. Most successful engineers work with interdiscplinary teams of engineers, technicians/technologists finance professionals, safety professionals, lawyers, and so on, to build and maintain infrastructure that is useful to society. You can't get the funds for this infrastructure out of thin air. It has to come from somewhere. Surely not from the pockets of the lowly recent graduate engineer. It has to come from either government or investors who expect returns. How they carry out investments is not a very simple matter either.

The many difficulties that come with being an engineer in Nigeria has its consequences. A good number of the very bright ones get educational opportunities abroad. Upon completion of their studies, they remain overseas where they work as engineers. A few return to high paying jobs in Nigeria. Some others who stay put in Nigeria find ways to do well with providing their own services in spite of the difficulties. They are in fields such as IT, renewable energy, engineering consulting, project management, and so on. Some others leave the engineering field and go into management, finance and business development. The net effect of all these is that overall, engineers are not being felt significantly here. Even though many are doing very well for themselves.

I think there will be many opportunities for engineers in Nigeria in the not too distant future. A growing economy will have to invest heavily in infrastructural development at some point. Hopefully the NSE will reasonably influence local participation in the developmental projects. I think more energy should be spent on making the NSE function adequately. A properly functioning NSE will work on ways to improve funding for engineering education at the universities, and influence government policies that will contribute to building a body of highly competent engineers.

Beautiful answer. While an undergraduate, I was thinking that the semester holidays we do have would be useful if one can gain a bit of experience but when you try meeting some of these persons/firms to work without pay, you are told there's no opening for you. Also, factor in this four years post graduate work experience before you can be certified an Engineer.

I really do wish the Engineering practice in Nigeria can change. At least, we'd be doing so many things ourselves without involving foreigners most times. As for NSE, I am sorry to say but I really do not see that happening.

SoldierBoy1:
Wow we different o.... Control systems was mad but I somehow loved it

LOL! I never really liked it.

Maybe my bias for the lecturer made me hate it.

Cuteamigo1:
Allow then to continue to spill trash. we live in a connected society where everyone needs the other. imagine if the farmers who cultivate the food we eat decide to feel too important, i wonder what the engineers and doctors will eat.

the matter tire me oooo....if security guard cleaners stewards can leave decent life's abroad wat are we saying self...i tire for dis country...we jst like show bootin....am sure pple are aware Ronaldo Ahmed musa are not medica graduates nonsense....

ultron12345:
It is jealousy and envy that will kill u.

Firstly, how many years did engineers spend in school pre nysc, just 5 years. Compare it to the number of years doctors spend in school pre nysc, 6 years, plus extra year for housemanship. And don't forget that 5 out of doctors 6 years are continuous, there's no semester break, unlike engineering students that have so many semester breaks and holidays, so by medical school standards, engineers spend less than 3 years in school.

Compare the cost of studying medicine and the cost of studying engineering, they pay higher tuition and their textbooks are d most expensive.

Finally, note that ur pay is based on ur productivity. If nysc engineers were serving in engineering and manufacturing facilities as professional engineers, then maybe their pay can be increased, but since they are working as teachers, then they ought to b paid as teachers. Nysc doctors serve in hospitals, doing their jobs as professional doctors, therefore, they are paid as doctors.

Ultron you should not argue blindly or naively because you want to make doctors look like the overmerit theirs while undermining the struggles of an engineer.. research on it to be clarified.


And for saying that doctors are useless without u pple because u made d machines they use, are u aware that u will not be alive today without doctors because sickness and disease for don kill u.

And how dare u compare mth and mee courses with with medical courses, engineering courses are childs play when compared withe medical courses. Seems u haven't seen ANA301 and PTH courses.

lol.. why you bursting my brain? First off his point is not properly conveyed. Engineering is a professional course and should be treated as such. medical practitioners and lawyers dont get to be teachers for any reason during service that is because politics cannot override their association. Engineering association can be easily overlooked no one trusts the engineering sector its bad but then again ask yourself are you really an engineer brother? When last did you go to a seminar by NSE or are you a registered engineer before service... you cant achieve those fits befoere serving cos our regulatory bodies want you to serve before you get your professional status. trust me man, if you can get your required certification you will get relevant as you think you should... but dont fault doctors and lawyers because their professional stand is determined before they go to serve courtsey of their housmanship and lawschool respectively.. engineers technically need about 3 yearspost graduate work experience to get theirs.

ultron12345:
upon all what u go through, what do u guys have to show for it, common renovation of 500m road, Nigerian engineers can't do, we have to bring engineers from India.

Una no know anything, that y Nigerians have deemed it right that u work as teachers during nysc

let me shock you,where i work the engineering machines for production is handled by an outsourced company tetrapaks and the company engineer(indians and nigeria).

tetra paks are the main boys handling critical support,the tetra pak enginneers are nigerians trained by tetrapak.there is nothing wrong with nigerian engineers its the system that is dulling us.

Hahjascho:
Seems factual sha

Agric students and Law students also spend 5 years in school but we don't see them complaining