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Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by batu: 10:12pm On Apr 19, 2007
@ALL:
Muhammed bin-Abdullah DID NOT perfrom any miracles. He himself said so in the quran.
See for your self:

=====================================================================

- Sura 17:90-94 of the Qur'an tells about how, when Muhammad was challenged to perform a miracle and prove he was from the true god, he could not perform any and here he actually says himself: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger? ". In Sura 13:7, we find that Muhammad did not perform any miracles. The people are saying that even one sign would be enough to convince them, just one miracle performed by Muhammad - and yet he still does none, !

All along, the unbelievers asked Muhammad to perform a miracle so that they could believe. All they got in response was,

- Sura 17:90: They say: "We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.,"

And Muhammad would reply:

- Sura 17:93: Say: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger?"


Muhammad did no miracles. He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man. The famous Iranian scholar, Ali Dashti comments that Moslems, as well as others, have disregarded the historical facts. They have continually striven to turn this man [Mohammed] into an imaginary superhuman being, a sort of God in human clothes, and have generally ignored the ample evidence of his humanity. They have been ready… to present these fantasies as miracles.

Reference: Ali Dashti, "Twenty Three Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad",
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 10:20pm On Apr 19, 2007
batu:

@ALL:
Muhammed bin-Abdullah DID NOT perfrom any miracles. He himself said so in the quran.
See for your self:

=====================================================================

- Sura 17:90-94 of the Qur'an tells about how, when Muhammad was challenged to perform a miracle and prove he was from the true god, he could not perform any and here he actually says himself: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger? ". In Sura 13:7, we find that Muhammad did not perform any miracles. The people are saying that even one sign would be enough to convince them, just one miracle performed by Muhammad - and yet he still does none, !

All along, the unbelievers asked Muhammad to perform a miracle so that they could believe. All they got in response was,

- Sura 17:90: They say: "We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.,"

And Muhammad would reply:

- Sura 17:93: Say: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger?"


Muhammad did no miracles. He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man. The famous Iranian scholar, Ali Dashti comments that Moslems, as well as others, have disregarded the historical facts. They have continually striven to turn this man [Muhammad] into an imaginary superhuman being, a sort of God in human clothes, and have generally ignored the ample evidence of his humanity. They have been ready… to present these fantasies as miracles.

Reference: Ali Dashti, "Twenty Three Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad",



He bedded countless women,that was his miracle.
He may have set the record for James Brown to break
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 10:21pm On Apr 19, 2007
4 Play:

Are you sure its not affecting you somehow? grin grin You have been misbehaving somehow these days grin grin

Hmm.
I don't like calling you by name. grin
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by gbadex1(m): 12:49am On Apr 20, 2007
Did someone mentionThe greatest miracle?

Frag it, the greatest miracle happened when Arsenal beat the crap out of Man. City 3-0, now that's the greatest miracle. . .or so i think tongue cheesy cheesy

PS: Run them Chelsea down, Amen!!! cheesy tongue
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by stimulus(m): 2:12am On Apr 20, 2007
Bottomline: Muhammad did not perform ANY miracles. Only embarrassed Muslims who are desperate to give him some sort of credibility are the ones going about with some eye-pupil "falling" to the cheeks. So much for the 'scientific' Qur'an and the more scientific Hadiths.

Even Muhammad himself was so embarrassed by the same question many times; and instead of autheticating his prophetic career with a clear miracle, he often referred to others' authenticated signs and miracles. Yet, he was even more embarrassed by the fact that he did not know the God of the Bible; and the plot thickens until he finally 'performed' one that the his followers will never forget: his 'miraculous' hatred for the Jews! If some of you have forgotten, it runs something along the lines that trees and stones will "cry out" to the Jihadists that some Jews were hiding behind them. At least, we see that 'miracle' as clear evidence in our day; although one will searchthe Quran in vain for the types similar to those of Moses and Jesus.
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 2:20am On Apr 20, 2007
stimulus:

Bottomline: Muhammad did not perform ANY miracles. Only embarrassed Muslims who are desperate to give him some sort of credibility are the ones going about with some eye-pupil "falling" to the cheeks. So much for the 'scientific' Qur'an and the more scientific Hadiths.

Even Muhammad himself was so embarrassed by the same question many times; and instead of autheticating his prophetic career with a clear miracle, he often referred to others' authenticated signs and miracles. Yet, he was even more embarrassed by the fact that he did not know the God of the Bible; and the plot thickens until he finally 'performed' one that the his followers will never forget: his 'miraculous' hatred for the Jews! If some of you have forgotten, it runs something along the lines that trees and stones will "cry out" to the Jihadists that some Jews were hiding behind them. At least, we see that 'miracle' as clear evidence in our day; although one will searchthe Quran in vain for the types similar to those of Moses and Jesus.

he tried to deflect the embarrasment with his "i am but a man, a slave of allah" nonsense! grin When Christ was asked to raise Lazarus, He did not go to Martha crying "i am but a man".
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by pilgrim1(f): 11:50am On Apr 21, 2007
I am still waiting for babs787 or any other knowledgeable Muslim to answer this question:

WHERE IN THE QURAN ARE THE MIRACLES MUHAMMAD PERFORMED TO PROVE HE WAS THE LAST AND GREATEST PROPHET??
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 1:55am On Apr 22, 2007
pilgrim.1:

I am still waiting for babs787 or any other knowledgeable Muslim to answer this question:

WHERE IN THE QURAN ARE THE MIRACLES MUHAMMAD PERFORMED TO PROVE HE WAS THE LAST AND GREATEST PROPHET??

keep waiting,he is trying to find a befitting lie to suit the ocassion.
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by babs787(m): 2:58pm On Apr 25, 2007
@pilgrim

You dont have to wait any longer, Babs is finally here cheesy cheesy


I have learnt that I don’t need to look at the noise being made at the market square but rather concentrate with the person am trading with.

If you are looking for the miracle he performed, you will never see it in the Quran .  He didn’t write the Quran and the only place you can find it is in the Hadith.


If really Jesus can wake the dead, I need your explanation on
Mathew 8 v 21:another of the disciples said to him, ‘Lord, let me first go and bury my father’

V 22: but jesus said to him, ‘follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

Now if you need any further comparison between the two prophets, go to these links and read that your JESUS didn’t even occupy the 2nd position but 3rd!! The comparison was done by a non-muslim. Happy reading.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

read the reason for chosen him as the first

http://www.twf.org/Library/Prophet.html

read the comparison below too and he deserved number 1.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/T12D25GTN8JVE2EDP



Now as to the scientific miracles, we will be comparing from the two books, we will look at stories of the prophets, mathematics and number 19, mathematics miracles in lexical concordance.


Quran 41 v 53: We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?

Quran 83 v 18-22: Indeed the book of the righteous will be in 'Elleyyeen. Do you know what 'Elleyyeen is? A NUMERICALLY STRUCTURED BOOK To be witnessed BY THOSE CLOSE TO ME. The righteous have deserved bliss.

We will look at the numerical miracles in the book and compare to the bible.

Quran 74 v 32-35: Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. And the night as it passes. And the morning as it shines. This is one of the great miracles.


Are you ok, should I proceed?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 3:14pm On Apr 25, 2007
babs787:

If really Jesus can wake the dead, I need your explanation on
Mathew 8 v 21:another of the disciples said to him, ‘Lord, let me first go and bury my father’

V 22: but jesus said to him, ‘follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

Now if you need any further comparison between the two prophets, go to these links and read that your JESUS didn’t even occupy the 2nd position but 3rd!! The comparison was done by a non-muslim. Happy reading.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

read the reason for chosen him as the first

http://www.twf.org/Library/Prophet.html

read the comparison below too and he deserved number 1.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/T12D25GTN8JVE2EDP



Now as to the scientific miracles, we will be comparing from the two books, we will look at stories of the prophets, mathematics and number 19, mathematics miracles in lexical concordance.

Blabs787, this is but another escape route for u. The question was "Greatest miracles in islam" and NOT "miracles: Jesus vs mohammed!" Rather than provide concrete evidence that mohammed performed miracles you are busy trying to disprove the well documented miracles of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Again the proof of miracles should be straight forward to you, if indeed mohammed is who he is why the need to go ferreting over the internet looking for the biased writings of people whose integrity we cannot vouch for?

You have continously said "we will look at . . ." when indeed are we going to start looking at these stories and miracles?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by babs787(m): 4:02pm On Apr 25, 2007
@davidylan

Are you afraid?

You are trying to be one sided in your argument but we need to touch all arears.

Like I told you, go to the sites and read the comparison between them, your Jesus occupying the 3rd position.

As for the miracles, let me know when you are ready and we will also compare the creation of things, stories of prophets, scientific claims etc

This will be the most interesting of all threads. cheesy cheesy cheesy

Are you ready?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 4:16pm On Apr 25, 2007
babs787:

@davidylan

Are you afraid?

You are trying to be one sided in your argument but we need to touch all arears.

Like I told you, go to the sites and read the comparison between them, your Jesus occupying the 3rd position.

As for the miracles, let me know when you are ready and we will also compare the creation of things, stories of prophets, scientific claims etc

This will be the most interesting of all threads. cheesy cheesy cheesy

Are you ready?

Afraid of what? Like i said earlier, your rants about "we need to touch several areas" is all a ruse to derail the focus of this topic from the real issues MOHAMMED's FALSE MIRACLES by trying to make comparisons.
Why ferreting for oppinions from the web? Is it so impossible to argue passuasively based on what you have learnt in the quran and hadith all these yrs? How many christians do u see running all over google looking for websites to prove to u that Jesus is God Himself?

Is it so hard to point to JUST ONE of mohammed's many alleged miracles? Why the pretense to be waiting to "compare"?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by olutomiwa(m): 4:33pm On Apr 25, 2007
the only miracle performed by mohammed{saw} grin was in bed with women old enough to be his mother,ask his first wife khadijat{saw} grin
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by babs787(m): 4:44pm On Apr 25, 2007
@olutomiwa

Have you asked yourself why Jesus never married at 'supposed' age of 30 something?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by olutomiwa(m): 5:24pm On Apr 25, 2007
babs787:

@olutomiwa

Have you asked yourself why Jesus never married at 'supposed' age of 30 something?
[/quote ]That was not the reason he came to the world,he came for a purpose and he REMAINED FOCUSED throughout his life time unlike BRODA mohammed whose mission was to RAPE, DESTROY,MARRY WOMEN OLD ENOF TO BE HIS MOTHER AND KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE INCLUDING CHILDREN,meanwhile you still have not ansad the question THE GREATEST MIRACLE IN ISLAM,just talk say you no know chikena.
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 5:40pm On Apr 25, 2007
babs787:

@olutomiwa

Have you asked yourself why Jesus never married at 'supposed' age of 30 something?

How about the islamic jesus,how many did his right and left hands posess?
Didn't know marriage is now compulsory,where have I been!

Mo at 53 married a 6 year old kindergardner,that indeed is a miracle
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by pilgrim1(f): 7:38pm On Apr 25, 2007
@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim

You don't have to wait any longer, Babs is finally here


I have learnt that I don’t need to look at the noise being made at the market square but rather concentrate with the person am trading with.

If you are looking for the miracle he performed, you will never see it in the Quran . He didn’t write the Quran and the only place you can find it is in the Hadith.

Okay, with all the noise you've made so far, you confirm that Muhammad did not perform any miracles in the Qur'an.

Now, if we have to look in the ahadith, can we even trust them at all, since Muslims cannot be sure which ahadith are authentic and which are false? So many contradictions are found in them that, if one were to mirror them against the Qur'an, we would come away with the feeling that Islam is riddled with confusion.

This is why I asked in another thread if the Qur'an can stand ALONE without recourse to the ahadith. Muslims should be honest enough to admit that Islam rests on BOTH the Qur'an and the Sunna; and in which case, the Qur'an ALONE is NOT a complete book.

babs787:

If really Jesus can wake the dead, I need your explanation on
Mathew 8 v 21:another of the disciples said to him, ‘Lord, let me first go and bury my father’

V 22: but jesus said to him, ‘follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

The Bible speaks of death in a number of ways - to be spiritually dead; and to be physically dead. It is clear that Jesus was making a case for both types in Matt. 8:21. I don't see how your question here seems to have been an intelligent one, unless you're so desperately in need of defending the non-existent miracles of Muhammad that you should clutch at any superfluous question to doubt those of Jesus Christ.

babs787:

Now if you need any further comparison between the two prophets, go to these links and read that your JESUS didn’t even occupy the 2nd position but 3rd!! The comparison was done by a non-muslim. Happy reading.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

read the reason for chosen him as the first

http://www.twf.org/Library/Prophet.html

read the comparison below too and he deserved number 1.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/T12D25GTN8JVE2EDP

You know what? I shook my head in pity for your scholarship after visiting those weblinks. To begin with, who is Michael Hart, and what criteria did he employ in his listing of the 100 most influential people? In case you missed it, the website even left this disclaimer:

"Adherents.com takes no position regarding the validity of Hart's rankings. Certainly ranking the relative historical influence of individuals is a subjective process."

So, Muslims who cannot think for themselves are more inclined to refer to Michael Hart's subjective list for no other reason but that Muhammad appeared as 1st on the list. Did you even read what reason was given for the listing of his name? Let me quote it:

"Prophet of Islam; conqueror of Arabia; Hart recognized that ranking Muhammad first might be controversial, but felt that, from a secular historian's perspective, this was the correct choice because Muhammad is the only man to have been both a founder of a major world religion and a major military/political leader."

Now, Hart's listing is obviously subjective, myopic, and narrow. Had he compared ALL the names on his list on THE SAME basis/criteria, he might have had a point. But what was the criteria listed against Jesus Christ? Apart from a terse "founder of Christianity", there was NONE!! Yet, if you look at the table to the left of that page (Religious Affiliation), Islam has a paltry 2%, while all the other groups affiliated to Christianity are no less than 70%!! And you talk of "influence"??

Don't forget that even the same website (Adherents.com) lists the population of Christians as 2.1billion people as against 1.3 billion Muslims (that's a staggering difference of 800 million!!). Anyone could have other subjective criteria for their own list and then either have placed Muhammad last; or even completely left him out of their list altogether. If you're going to be honest in referring to "subjective" listings, then let me recommend Henry and Dana Thomas' list of History's Major Religious Leaders - there you find Jesus Christ appearing 1ST on the list; whereas Muhammad was placed 9TH!! And yes, the authors were historians and biogaphers.

babs787:

Now as to the scientific miracles, we will be comparing from the two books, we will look at stories of the prophets, mathematics and number 19, mathematics miracles in lexical concordance.

Quran 41 v 53: We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?

Quran 83 v 18-22: Indeed the book of the righteous will be in 'Elleyyeen. Do you know what 'Elleyyeen is? A NUMERICALLY STRUCTURED BOOK To be witnessed BY THOSE CLOSE TO ME. The righteous have deserved bliss.

We will look at the numerical miracles in the book and compare to the bible.

You may be surprised by what you're calling for. Be my guest.

babs787:

Quran 74 v 32-35: Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. And the night as it passes. And the morning as it shines. This is one of the great miracles.

Another verse that led (no, "drove"wink me out of Islam into the loving arms of Jesus Christ my Saviour. How could a true prophet swear by the moon and so many other things under the sun?? What has the swearing by moon and the other things done for those in Islam who are still suffering from their maladies from Muhammad's time to this present day? Who was miraculously healed, raised from the dead, had their eyes and ears opened, after Muhammad's swearing by those things?

This is "one of the great miracles" - which miracle, babs787??

babs787:

Are you ok, should I proceed?

Thank you once again for your efforts.

However, I would honestly hope that you address the topic of the thread and not ramble on like a man looking for his wife in a market square. You've already slated me off as ignorant in another thread, and I'm grateful; I only beg you don't make it worse by giving me camel's urine to drink.
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by pilgrim1(f): 7:52pm On Apr 25, 2007
And, please babs787, read the topic again and try to stick to it. the simple question I've been asking is:

WHERE IN THE QURAN ARE THE MIRACLES MUHAMMAD PERFORMED TO PROVE HE WAS THE LAST AND GREATEST PROPHET??

I already note that you're shifting away from the Qur'an  and on to the ahadith. No problem with that; and later i'll offer you what that paradigm shift does to the mind of the reader who reads of "MIRACLES" in the QURAN and now finds that there's NONE!!

babs787:

If you are looking for the miracle he performed, you will never see it in the Quran .  He didn’t write the Quran and the only place you can find it is in the Hadith.

That said, I should also remind you that your offer of those weblinks do NOT in even one instance claim that Muhammad performed ANY miracle. If there's any substance to Michael Hart's listing him as 1st on his subjective criteria of "military/political" reasons, then Hitler was an even greater miracle worker by contrast!! And you should know better than that.

Again, for your sake, please stick to the topic; and if you have nothing to say thereto, please pass on and let other knowledgeable Muslims come to the discourse instead of being desperate to cover up what you can't defend

If Muhammed performed NO miracles in the Qur'an, he performed NONE outside Islam's holy book of 'Allah'. Subsequently, the word "MIRACLE/MIRACLES" should be scrapped from that book!

Thanks.
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 9:22pm On Apr 25, 2007
blabs787,
Is marrying before he was 30 one of Mohammed's greatest miracles?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by pilgrim1(f): 9:49pm On Apr 25, 2007
davidylan:

blabs787,
Is marrying before he was 30 one of Muhammad's greatest miracles?

He's being typically Islamic. When Muslims have no answers to questions they're asked, they quickly try to argue away from the topic; and before you know it, they'll be praising themselves for their weak arguments.

How is Jesus' not having married before He was 30 a germane question to the topic at hand?

Does the Qur'an teach that He was married - and at what age??

If the Qur'an does not teach that Jesus was married at all, what is babs787 trying to spin as a distraction to the topic?
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 11:17pm On Apr 25, 2007
pilgrim.1:

He's being typically Islamic. When Muslims have no answers to questions they're asked, they quickly try to argue away from the topic; and before you know it, they'll be praising themselves for their weak arguments.

How is Jesus' not having married before He was 30 a germane question to the topic at hand?

Does the Qur'an teach that He was married - and at what age??

If the Qur'an does not teach that Jesus was married at all, what is babs787 trying to spin as a distraction to the topic?

I described the guy a long time ago,he is a little blank.
IF Jesus Christ did not marry and the jesus of the Koran did not,what is his point?
And like David said,is marrying before 30 a miracle?.

If that's the case,Davidylan,you better begin knocking on doors with immediate alacrity before this miracle passes you by grin grin

I hope you've been growing and watering your bia bia too,that was the earlier miracle we learnt of
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 11:45pm On Apr 25, 2007
The Hadith, Bukhari, Vol 2, No. 167 "The sun eclipsed and the prophet jumped up terrified that it might be the Hour (of Judgement)"
Obviously this was not one of the miracles.

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:41am On Apr 26, 2007
babyosisi:

If that's the case,Davidylan,you better begin knocking on doors with immediate alacrity before this miracle passes you by grin grin

By the grace of God, this "miracle" will not pass me by. What a "great, mighty and last" prophet i am!

Mohammed and the miracle of the shouting food

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:45am On Apr 26, 2007
ojigbijigbi!!!!!!!!!

what language did the uncooked fish shout?,Japanese I hope
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:48am On Apr 26, 2007
Muhammad and the miracle of the crying tree

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:49am On Apr 26, 2007
davidylan:

By the grace of God, this "miracle" will not pass me by. What a "great, mighty and last" prophet i am!


lol and you're  not even Quaraish!
We welcome Davidylan al- marriagiani (suya be upon yoiur plate) grin grin
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:52am On Apr 26, 2007
davidylan:

Muhammad and the miracle of the crying tree

Akirika!!!
That should be a nollywood piece
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:52am On Apr 26, 2007
Muhammad and the miracle of the fingers of life

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:53am On Apr 26, 2007
Mohammed and the miracle of the healing palm leaves

Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:54am On Apr 26, 2007
David,where are these miracles coming from?
people drank from his fingers?

hope it was clean water,I'll be careful drinking from a finger
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:55am On Apr 26, 2007
davidylan:

Muhammad and the miracle of the healing palm leaves

The man dey O
First he stones the men to death then lessens their pain in hell.
Mohammed akhbar!
Re: The Greatest Miracle In Islam by Nobody: 12:58am On Apr 26, 2007
babyosisi:

David,where are these miracles coming from?
people drank from his fingers?

hope it was clean water,I'll be careful drinking from a finger

alas i was ashamed of blabs787's embarrasment at not being able to produce any of the "mighty miracles" of the "last and greatest prophet". I decided to oblige him.

allahu akbar!

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