Sterope:
List of father's family

1. Grandfather- Father's father
2. Grandmother- father's mothrt
3. Uncle- Father's brother
4. Aunt- Father's sister
5. Cousins- father's nieces and nephews

Your claim is that the above have rights over a woman whose egg was fertilised, carried the child for nine months, delivered the child and probably breastfed the child all because it is the father's family that owns the child.

deltateam:


Its either you are not living in Nigeria or you were born in the bush otherwise you will know a child married traditionally belongs to the man's family and bears their name.

The child in question is a minor and should be raised by the mother unless she's incapacitated.

Go back and tell your father or uncle if you have to educate you. Stop spreading your ignorance.

Two of you are missing some points from your argument. Let me put it this way,

1. The child belongs to the mother (obviously, anyone who argues against this should be flogged 5 times)

2. The mother is now a member of the husband's family. I mean, what was the point of a traditional wedding if you were not going to accept the lady in your home.

3. Following the above points, both child and mum belong to husband's family. (Damn I'm beginning to sound like a broken record )

4. You SHOULD NOT separate mother from child. This is everyone's grief against the father's family, at least going by the story the OP has shared so far.

No matter how patriarchal your culture is, the mother still deserves some respect. We still need to know the whole truth of this matter. Yoruba, Edo and Esan people are not as bad as some posters have tried to make it here.

Let me add that going by some traditions, a mother will loose custody of a child if she decides to remarry outside the husband's family. These terms and conditions are clearly explained to all parties involved I.e. the mother, the new husband, the husband's family members and even the child when he/she comes of age (if necessary, because they will ask questions)

Niger Delta tribes have very barbaric traditions where issues of spousal death and inheritance are concerned. Same with the Ibos

The siblings of the deceased become greedy & grabby, they feel entitled to property and cash left behind, most times they seize everything and leave the bereaved wife and kids destitute. Who on earth separates a 2 year old from her mother? These are straight up savages

You are the one missing the point in this argument. The argument mother does not belong to the husband's family. She is part of the family by virtue of marriage. Last I checked, marriage is said to be between two families not one against another. Marriage does not mean they get to decide what happens to someone's child.

His argument is that the child belongs to the father's family. Once she decides to remarry, she shouldn't carry that child to another family...whatever that meant in his archaic mind.

alphaNomega:




Two of you are missing some points from your argument. Let me put it this way,

1. The child belongs to the mother (obviously, anyone who argues against this should be flogged 5 times)

2. The mother is now a member of the husband's family. I mean, what was the point of a traditional wedding if you were not going to accept the lady in your home.

3. Following the above points, both child and mum belong to husband's family. (Damn I'm beginning to sound like a broken record )

4. You SHOULD NOT separate mother from child. This is everyone's grief against the father's family, at least going by the story the OP has shared so far.

No matter how patriarchal your culture is, the mother still deserves some respect. We still need to know the whole truth of this matter. Yoruba, Edo and Esan people are not as bad as some posters have tried to make it here.

Let me add that going by some traditions, a mother will loose custody of a child if she decides to remarry outside the husband's family. These terms and conditions are clearly explained to all parties involved I.e. the mother, the new husband, the husband's family members and even the child when he/she comes of age (if necessary, because they will ask questions)

adanny01:


The child bears a name that the late father gave. No one can take it away. Does the family have patent rights over the name? WTF are you talking about?

Loool you sef see am.

Sometimes I wonder if some nairalanders are human beings at all.

How someone can try to justify a family taking a child away from the mother what I cant grasp.

NoToPile:



Loool you sef see am.

Sometimes I wonder if some nairalanders are human beings at all.

How someone can try to justify a family taking a child away from the mother what I cant grasp.

I dont understand it either.

Sterope:
[s]You are the one missing the point in this argument[/s]. The argument mother does not belong to the husband's family. She is part of the family by virtue of marriage. Last I checked, marriage is said to be between two families not one against another. Marriage does not mean they get to decide what happens to someone's child.

His argument is that the child belongs to the father's family. Once she decides to remarry, she shouldn't carry that child to another family...whatever that meant in his archaic mind.

Now pay attention

African traditional marriage brings a twist to the part I highlighted. I previously wrote here that our traditional wedding ceremonies is the same as "buying of wife". I think this whitewashing and feminism bruhaha is causing confusion among you girls. If it is not, why is the bride not given a list of rites to fulfill because she wants to marry a man? And why did your father not answer his
Wife's family name?

After marriage, the woman is GIVEN OFF to the husband's family that is the truth your elders have not told you. Maybe they are waiting for you to realise it but thank your days for nairaland.com

Sure she can still identify with her family, it does not mean she should or would be alienated by them.

THE CHILD BELONGS TO THE FATHER'S FAMILY. You that is talking, is your surname your father's family name or your mother's maiden/family name? Did you ever hear your father going to his wife's family to claim property or entitlements after he married her? But your mum is entitled to certain benefits in her husband's extended family and it varies among our cultures.

Her decision to leave with her child to another marriage is not up to her. It depends on the tradition and decision of the elders in the father's family.

I hope you understand?

You pay attention

1) Bridal list and all other shit isn't my headache. I don't care of it. Funny enough, it is between men. I don't care for it. What I know is, you cannot bound an adult and you cannot sell a human be it a child or an adult. If we are talking about this matter, I care less for archaic opinions.

2) You keep forgetting that culture differs. My mum cannot claim anything from my dad's family. Every child knows his family. If she is claiming anything, it is against my dad. They can inherit each other. Yet they pay bride price but families don't go about kidnapping someone else's children with exceptions.

It is the reason we have the courts to enforce fairness and justice. I was made aware that in some parts of the Igbo culture, a married woman cannot inherit her father's. Guess what? That archaic silly irrational tradition is no longer binding. Thanks to the Court.


3) The names are given by the father. Like I told your friend, if anyone has an objection to what names a parent should give their child, you know where the father is. Take a trip.


Now pay attention and this time, use your brain.

Why should my child, the one I gave birth to, the one I carried for nine months deemed to belong to someone else? A child is always going to be a child to his mother and father. To everyone else, she is a grandchild, niece etc. If you ask this family to choose between the son that died and the baby, guess who they are going to choose? It won't even take a second. Give them a choice between the wife and their son? Let's try that test again with two of their sons? It is the only tough test.

In this scenario, the woman wants her child not some silly entitlement. If selling human being is your tradition or exchange of material things for people's rights and autonomy is your culture, may I ask how much did your mother cost your father? I mean no insult, afterall you buy and sell women and children.

alphaNomega:


Now pay attention

African traditional marriage brings a twist to the part I highlighted. I previously wrote here that our traditional wedding ceremonies is the same as "buying of wife". If it is not, why is the bride not given a list of rites to fulfill because she wants to marry a man?

After marriage, the woman is GIVEN OFF to the husband's family that is the truth your elders have not told you. Maybe they are waiting for you to realise it but thank your days for nairaland.com

Sure she can still identify with her family, it does not mean she should be alienated by them either.

THE CHILD BELONGS TO THE FATHER'S FAMILY. You that is talking, is your surname your father's family name or your mother's maiden/family name? Did you ever hear your father going to his wife's family to claim property or entitlements after he married her? But your mum is entitled to certain benefits in her husband's extended family and it varies among our cultures.

I hope you understand?

[s]

Sterope:
You pay attention

1) Bridal list and all other shit isn't my headache. I don't care of it. Funny enough, it is between men. I don't care for it. What I know is, you cannot bound an adult and you cannot sell a human be it a child or an adult. If we are talking about this matter, I care less for archaic opinions.

2) You keep forgetting that culture differs. My mum cannot claim anything from my dad's family. Every child knows his family. If she is claiming anything, it is against my dad. They can inherit each other. Yet they pay bride price but families don't go about kidnapping someone else's children with exceptions.

It is the reason we have the courts to enforce fairness and justice. I was made aware that in some parts of the Igbo culture, a married woman cannot inherit her father's. Guess what? That archaic silly irrational tradition is no longer binding. Thanks to the Court.


3) The names are given by the father. Like I told your friend, if anyone has an objection to what names a parent should give their child, you know where the father is. Take a trip.


Now pay attention and this time, use your brain.

Why should my child, the one I gave birth to, the one I carried for nine months deemed to belong to someone else? A child is always going to be a child to his mother and father. To everyone else, she is a grandchild, niece etc. If you ask this family to choose between the son that died and the baby, guess who they are going to choose? It won't even take a second. Give them a choice between the wife and their son? Let's try that test again with two of their sons? It is the only tough test.

In this scenario, the woman wants her child not some silly entitlement. If selling human being is your tradition or exchange of material things for people's rights and autonomy is your culture, may I ask how much did your mother cost your father? I mean no insult, afterall you buy and sell women and children.

[/s]

Clearly you don't understand shi.t and have refused to use your head. Maybe when you get older you will learn, maybe you will never. Only time can teach you something now.

Bye

Your ancestors said same when they banned killing of twins.

alphaNomega:
[s][/s]

[s]Clearly you don't understand shi.t and have refused to use your head. Maybe when you get older you will learn, maybe you will never. Only time can teach you something now.[/s]

Bye

DavidEsq:

FIDA kee u dia! Those lazy ass lawyer that don't know their left from their right!

Those lawyers that find attending classes as boring? lol

remi1444:
Those lawyers that find attending classes as boring? lol

Ah dey teh u! That's how I saw one of dem (female lawyers) in court. Opposition was tendering an enclosed document and the bloody hippo couldn't raise any objection to the admissibility of the document. I gave her a hint, miss hippo was blank as to wat I was saying. I jus tire. They have little of nothing to lose so long as they get alerts monthly. Na dem go dey sharp mouth anyhow for church, and women' meeting, dey form lawyer . Nonsense and Tacha's body odour

[s]

Sterope:


Your ancestors said same when they banned killing of twins.

[/s]

ornicus:
how many men have prepared a will to ensure their wife and kids are protected from their extended family

A lot of African traditions treat widows as chattel. A lot of families will show colour in instances like these. Even in cases of the living, families have seized children. Three years ago davidos family attempted to steal his daughter from his baby mama. If she did not have an influential uncle, they would have gotten away with it.


all those alpha male wankers out there - this is why women need empowerment; if you leave this world, your wife and kids will most of the time be at the mercy of your extended family. make no mistake, if she does not get that child back, the child will be a second class human being in whatever extended family household she grows up in. the extended family do not care about the child in the slightest

Tell them

alphaNomega:




Two of you are missing some points from your argument. Let me put it this way,

1. The child belongs to the mother (obviously, anyone who argues against this should be flogged 5 times)

2. The mother is now a member of the husband's family. I mean, what was the point of a traditional wedding if you were not going to accept the lady in your home.

3. Following the above points, both child and mum belong to husband's family. (Damn I'm beginning to sound like a broken record )

4. You SHOULD NOT separate mother from child. This is everyone's grief against the father's family, at least going by the story the OP has shared so far.

No matter how patriarchal your culture is, the mother still deserves some respect. We still need to know the whole truth of this matter. Yoruba, Edo and Esan people are not as bad as some posters have tried to make it here.

Let me add that going by some traditions, a mother will loose custody of a child if she decides to remarry outside the husband's family. These terms and conditions are clearly explained to all parties involved I.e. the mother, the new husband, the husband's family members and even the child when he/she comes of age (if necessary, because they will ask questions)

That was what I was trying to tell female that doesn't know her left from her right. And she was insulting me.
Its a norm in many cultures, if a woman remarries after the death of her husband, she looses rights.

alphaNomega:
[s][/s]

Clearly you don't understand shi.t and have refused to use your head. Maybe when you get older you will learn, maybe you will never. Only time can teach you something now.

Bye

You really get time for her jargon. I saw the trash she wrote there. Don't mind her. She doesn't know that even her own son when he grows and becomes a man, will fully agree to all those things. If culture is not supreme, why does churches insist traditional marriage must have been done before they approve any wedding.


These feminist are very funny. They can only make noise on social media. But as far as Africa is concerned our patriarchal traditions will still hold sway 100years to come.
Even there own sons when they mature into a full blown man will shock them.
They think being a man is a flimsy thing.
I don't mean to denigrate women, but any woman that doesn't humble herself and take her rightful place in the society will find she is even fighting God's ordained order in the earth.


Concerning this particular story, the fathers family were wrong to take the child from the mother. She is there wife. Rather they should have comforted her in this her mourning period

djon78:



You really get time for her jargon. I saw the trash she wrote there. Don't mind her. She doesn't know that even her own son when he grows and becomes a man, will fully agree to all those things. If culture is not supreme, why does churches insist traditional marriage must have been done before they approve any wedding.


These feminist are very funny. They can only make noise on social media. But as far as Africa is concerned our patriarchal traditions will still hold sway 100years to come.
Even there own sons when they mature into a full blown man will shock them.
They think being a man is a flimsy thing.
I don't mean to denigrate women, but any woman that doesn't humble herself and take her rightful place in the society will find she is even fighting God's ordained order in the earth.


Concerning this particular story, the fathers family were wrong to take the child from the mother. She is there wife. Rather they should have comforted her in this her mourning period

Thanks for your contributions. Ordinarily feminists are dumb and stupid, now imagine a Nigerian feminist? Trying to make them use their head is as impossible as reaching the end of Subway surfers, even if you made the highest score worldwide they do not ever have sense.

The fooli.sh girl said bridal list is not her headache, why would it be? Are you the one they are marrying selling off. The price for a goat in the market is not the goat's headache.

Even went on to say you cannot sell a human being... Hahahaha, something that is happening in your front and you rub pancake all over your face, smiling like a dog, dancing and taking photographs. Bros I had to stop because I did not want to continue the onslaught.

DavidEsq:

Ah dey teh u! That's how I saw one of dem (female lawyers) in court. Opposition was tendering an enclosed document and the bloody hippo couldn't raise any objection to the admissibility of the document. I gave her a hint, miss hippo was blank as to wat I was saying. I jus tire. They have little of nothing to lose so long as they get alerts monthly. Na dem go dey sharp mouth anyhow for church, and women' meeting, dey form lawyer . Nonsense and Tacha's body odour

Chaiiii... There are tons of them currently in my faculty especially my class, they're always forming celebrity.

remi1444:
Chaiiii... There are tons of them currently in my faculty especially my class, they're always forming celebrity.

No mind dem. Na dem go dey parade 2.1 for their result but all dah wan dey end for marriage. One of dem wey be my classmate her hubby don loss e job but she no even fit enter court assist the family. She dey find government work. But if u see how she dey sharp mouth for her hubby dah year ehn, dey claim radical lawyer "I wee nor take that shit"! Now she no fit even save her family from hunger with her "radicalism".

DavidEsq:

No mind dem. Na dem go dey parade 2.1 for their result but all dah wan dey end for marriage. One of dem wey be my classmate her hubby don loss e job but she no even fit enter court assist the family. She dey find government work. But if u see how she dey sharp mouth for her hubby dah year ehn, dey claim radical lawyer "I wee nor take that shit"! Now she no fit even save her family from hunger with her "radicalism".

I hope for the best... I pray make law pay my bills

remi1444:

I hope for the best... I pray make law pay my bills

It will bro. Just make sure u start to keep tabs on ur relatives in the location u intend to practice, so they know u are warning up for their briefs. They may not pay much because of blood connections but they would do give u referrals. Make sure you read the law reports o! Cos na there u go understand everything u are taught and not taught me it would also teach u how to place and arrange ur arguments. fvck fear of courts, swallow the fear and read everything in ur file before u enter the court. Read the damn files on the shelf and law books after call to bar. If no wan practice, that doesn't stop from doing ur best in practice, before u get job. But make sure u have good standards immediately u start practice. Entertain every client in a law office, even if no be ur office or principal office. They must pay for consultation fees before u begin advice them but hear their story first b4 u charge fees. As time goes on, collect consultation fees first before hearing them. That and a few more.

djon78:




That was what I was trying to tell female that doesn't know her left from her right. And she was insulting me.
Its a norm in many cultures, if a woman remarries after the death of her husband, she looses rights.

Come oh, tradition has limits oh.

Loses her right? She loses her right to membership or anything position she may be entitled as an extended family member but not her rights in her deceased husband's estate unless there is a will which forbids her any right if she remarries.

It is when she remarries while in custody of the mans estate without a will and not being his next of kin that the court will have to take most of her rights but certainly not all especially if the next of kin is a her child and a minor.

If her husband wills her a house, a car, shares of his company or any other part of his estate, she cannot lose the right when she remarries unless a will specifically says so.

Also if the will says her child is the sole heir to the estate, and being a minor, she is his guardian as the mother, she cannot lose all her rights because she remarried unless the family by a court ruling assume guardianship of the son then she losses most of her rights.

Extended family or tradition cannot cause a woman to lose her rights, it is the law that can do that.

All of you shouting tradition upandan are the reason Nigeria is not moving forward while wickedness and injustice thrives.

When you see tradition as above the law, you are bound to infringe on peoples rights.

Whenever you see someone saying tradition this tradition that, it is meant to cheat or lay claim to what is not his. Tradition is always not fair.

adanny01:


Come oh, tradition has limits oh.

Loses her right? She loses her right to membership or anything position she may be entitled as an extended family member but not her rights in her deceased husband's estate unless there is a will which forbids her any right if she remarries.

It is when she remarries while in custody of the mans estate without a will and not being his next of kin that the court will have to take most of her rights but certainly not all especially if the next of kin is a her child and a minor.

If her husband wills her a house, a car, shares of his company or any other part of his estate, she cannot lose the right when she remarries unless a will specifically says so.

Also if the will says her child is the sole heir to the estate, and being a minor, she is his guardian as the mother, she cannot lose all her rights because she remarried unless the family by a court ruling assume guardianship of the son then she losses most of her rights.

Extended family or tradition cannot cause a woman to lose her rights, it is the law that can do that.

All of you shouting tradition upandan are the reason Nigeria is not moving forward while wickedness and injustice thrives.

When you see tradition as above the law, you are bound to infringe on peoples rights.

Whenever you see someone saying tradition this tradition that, it is meant to cheat or lay claim to what is not his. Tradition is always not fair.

The main issue is that in Africa, tradition is sometimes more respected even over the law. Due to complexities of our way of life.

How many of our marriages was sanctioned by courts if not maybe present generation that are
npw doing court marriage.
And how many men do leave will ? Very few. So due to a lot of complexities tradition still has sway.


Marriage in Africa is a very complex issue. It does not just involve just man and woman, but even family members which therefore this gives rise to many complications except the husband through wisdom protects his family from other external forces. But if he doesn't wisely protect his family, then these external forces will come to bear on them peradventure his demise.

A man protecting his family involves, he starting from time to control these external forces which is also a battle on its own, because these factors are his parents, siblings, relatives. And sometimes there is absolutely nothing much he can do. I have seen very wealthy men fight these battles, they set up there brothers, the brothers squander the money and still be claiming right. And because of the society we are in, they can't hurt there blood, it is unresolved.


I am speaking from countless cases like that I have come across. Very complicated issues

DavidEsq:

It will bro. Just make sure u start to keep tabs on ur relatives in the location u intend to practice, so they know u are warning up for their briefs. They may not pay much because of blood connections but they would do give u referrals. Make sure you read the law reports o! Cos na there u go understand everything u are taught and not taught me it would also teach u how to place and arrange ur arguments. fvck fear of courts, swallow the fear and read everything in ur file before u enter the court. Read the damn files on the shelf and law books after call to bar. If no wan practice, that doesn't stop from doing ur best in practice, before u get job. But make sure u have good standards immediately u start practice. Entertain every client in a law office, even if no be ur office or principal office. They must pay for consultation fees before u begin advice them but hear their story first b4 u charge fees. As time goes on, collect consultation fees first before hearing them. That and a few more.

thank you boss on behalf of myself and others who will eventually read this, we're grateful...though I'm currently in the end of my second year in the University.

djon78:



The main issue is that in Africa, tradition is sometimes more respected even over the law. Due to complexities of our way of life.

How many of our marriages was sanctioned by courts if not maybe present generation that are
npw doing court marriage.
And how many men do leave will ? Very few. So due to a lot of complexities tradition still has sway.


Marriage in Africa is a very complex issue. It does not just involve just man and woman, but even family members which therefore this gives rise to many complications except the husband through wisdom protects his family from other external forces. But if he doesn't wisely protect his family, then these external forces will come to bear on them peradventure his demise.

A man protecting his family involves, he starting from time to control these external forces which is also a battle on its own, because these factors are his parents, siblings, relatives. And sometimes there is absolutely nothing much he can do. I have seen very wealthy men fight these battles, they set up there brothers, the brothers squander the money and still be claiming right. And because of the society we are in, they can't hurt there blood, it is unresolved.


I am speaking from countless cases like that I have come across. Very complicated issues

Civil marriage is a very simple and uncomplicated thing. Civil law allows everyone to mingle and marry to every race, tradition or religion but race, tradition and religion does not allow every one to mingle freely or get married.

We live in a civilized society therefore we need to marry as civilized people.

A court marriage does not give a couple full rights under a church or tradition.

A church/Mosque marriage will not give thw couple full rights under the civil law or tradition.

A traditional marriage does not give a couple full rights under a church or civil law.

So for a couple to have full marriage rights in our society, it has to be all 3 at the same time.

However, we are fist of all civil members of the society and we are by the Constitution under the civil law whether Christian, Muslim, Traditionalist, Pegan or any sort. Therefore only a court marriage can give anyone such rights that will be recognized by every body and all society law.

Lastly, tradition or traditional marriage in this civilization is meant to serve the interest of the uneducated and old people in the villages who are after their wellbeing. Traditional marriage does not look after the interest of the couple, it is to satisfy the need for entitlement of the uncivilized people. Every item paid or received in a traditional wedding is geared towards the need of the extended family and their need to extract from the couple something to satisfy their stomachs only.

We left horses for cars, aeroplanes, trains etc as civilization has giving us. We embraced education yo better our lives as civilized people. We learned foreign language to communicate and trade as civilized people but what has tradition done, only takes us backward to where we come from. The need to embrace civilization is threatened by a few uncivilized people and their greed.

Anyone here who thinks tradition is something tho behold even if educated is an uncivilized person.

You cannot be educated at the sane time uphold tradition practiced when our great grand fathers held sway. Tradition is one of the main reason of backwards in Nigeria.

remi1444:
thank you boss on behalf of myself and others who will eventually read this, we're grateful...though I'm currently in the end of my second year in the University.

remi1444 please can you help me with the SEPLAT scholarship past questions?

you helped a guy out perviously on the scholarship thread, please help me out too.

ayodejiolayode468@gmail.com

dom:
Simple matter. When you are fully recovered, file for custody at the high court or customary court (if you only had a traditional marriage). There is no judge in this life that'll deprive a mother the custody of an infant child, unless the mother is a hopeless case.

Please I don’t know what is happening with my mail. I can't receive mails. Please contact me on

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