My, aren't you confused and groping about in darkness? First you allege:

Sweetnecta:

@Olaadegbu: Luke 1 verse 5 was not Just that Elisabeth the wife of Zacharias was a family member of Aaron. It says "from the SISTERS of Aaron". You live in England. Shame on you if you are saying that that is not actually saying SISTER OF AARON. Then you have to blame your soul for lying to your heart, which makes your head not be able to use your eyes to read it.

Then knowing that doesn't wash, you turn around and say this:

Sweetnecta:

Your Bible called Elizabeth "from the daughters of Aaron", and The Virgin Mary, "cousin of Elisabeth", my Quran calls Mary "sister of Aaron".

Tell me: Is your grand-daughter or other female descendant your sister? You see the inconsistencies that mount up when you try to defend that farrago of lies called the qur'an.

Hey your comments does not match with what we are talking about here

bashy_demy:

Hey your comments does not match with what we are talking about here

I hope you have an answer to his question in his quote below.

aletheia:

Tell me: Is your grand-daughter or other female descendant your sister? You see the inconsistencies that mount up when you try to defend that farrago of lies called the qur'an.

@OLAADEGBU what we are trying to let you know is that they are relatives one way or the other check my previous comments i said the samething so get your fact right.

@Olaadegbu and Aletheia: « #162 on: Today at 09:59:03 AM »
[QUote]Quote from: bashy_demy on Today at 09:32:11 AM
Hey your comments does not match with what we are talking about here

I hope you have an answer to his question in his quote below.

Quote from: aletheia on Today at 09:22:52 AM
Tell me: Is your grand-daughter or other female descendant your sister?[/Quote]Allah has answered you with varied and obvious examples in your life. Yes. They may not be in yours world. But they are in my world. Proof; The mother of my children calls her mother sister, because thats the nickname the family gave her. My Muslim female family members are my "sisters" in Islam. That include my mother, grand mother, nieces, sister, aunts, cousins. The non Muslims among them are just sisters in humanity, because we are all children of "The Family Patriach", "Town Patriach like the Ijebu Ode Omo Obantas", "Provincial Patriach like the Ijebu Omo Alares", "Tribal Patriach lke the yoruba Omo Oduduwas", "Human race Patriach mankind omo Adamos".

I dont know about you all humans are from the family of Adam (AS). We are his children, the males are brothers of one another and to the females, who are sisters of one another and to the males. Yet we can marry from this family pool, since the first generation of :Children of Adam" marry from themselves, instead of your Biblical mumbo Jumbo's "Sons of God got daughters of men pregnant" mad mind story.If your Biblical story were true, that will make their children half casts of Humans and Gods. Maybe this is where you guys are drawing your god son's mentality of Servant of God Jesus.



[Quote]You see the inconsistencies that mount up when you try to defend that farrago of lies called the qur'an.[/Quote]This dude Aletheia, is not a human from human race, he is not a nigeria who is in brotherhood with all nigerians, males and females of us, he is not a yoruba man with an omo Oduduwa identity, the reason he wrote Johanuu, for John instead of writing Joonu. The same way Yoruba will write Maikeli for Michael in the song "Maikeli rora bukele, iyon polobe,Maikeli rora bukele". You are the one who is with mounting inconsistencies, with evidences of in numerous non congruent arguments on each and every subject of your religious Book. OT opposes NT. NT opposes itself, by one Gospel opposing itself, another Gospel[s] and post Gospel parts of the same NT.

No wonder it is an inspiration still going through VERSIONS, EDITIONS, REVISIONS, because there are three equal gods directing the flow of "Thoughts" of the writers. The gods must be opposing one another. These gods are to be blamed for what they have caused in Trinity, with one of them dying with a soul accursed so that the christians may be saved, while another needed to be protected from critical analysis, and the third is never independent enough to do things without consultations with the other two, who are irrevelant.

Ko si eron ife lara awon keferi sha. I even call my older sister my young mother. Rightfully so. A title of honor. I wonder if Mary the mother of Jesus is a real cousin of Elisabeth of Yahya? When Elisabeth is called the daughters of Aaron, even with all the generations between Elisabeth and Aaron, the christians find it difficult to accept that Mary could be honorably called sister of Aaron. Yet they can say her son is their God. A lie of the highest form. They even say this child of the woman they cant attach to Aaron is also their God. Another lie.

But in all of these, they found a way to make a ghost which they say is a trinitarian god becomes a sent messenger that hears and repeats only what he hears, to a particular generation, group. Without any record, they mysteriously transfer this ghost beyond the scope of what they said jesus said about him to every generation since.

Guys, when will you wake up to reality?

@kola Oloye,

I think this website may answer some of your concerns regarding the Tri-une God.

http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20030302.htm

OLAADEGBU:

@kola Oloye,

I think this website may answer some of your concerns regarding the Tri-une God.

http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20030302.htm

where is Kola oloye here are you daydreaming?

bashy_demy:

where is Kola oloye here are you daydreaming?

Here am I . He was in the spirit while posting.

@Olaadegbu,
I will check the site now.God is our strength.
Please keep on praying for this our brothers in Islam that God should open their eyes of understanding.
I would like them to be a partaker of the promised Heaven.

Kola Oloye the big time is asking Olaadegbu the big time shayatin to pray for the slaves of Allah so that they can become the servants of servant of Allah.

Kola, you are a darn confused soul.

Who needs heaven when we have Jannah, InshaAllah.

Alhamdulillahi ladhi adaana al Islam.

kola oloye:

Here am I . He was in the spirit while posting.

@Olaadegbu,
I will check the site now.God is our strength.
Please keep on praying for this our brothers in Islam that God should open their eyes of understanding.
I would like them to be a partaker of the promised Heaven.

Hmmmmm did Satan send you out to look for more people we are not part of them ok go to tell Satan that we are of Allah the most superior of everything

bashy_demy:

where is Kola oloye here are you daydreaming?

Sweetnecta:

Kola Oloye the big time is asking Olaadegbu the big time shayatin to pray for the slaves of Allah so that they can become the servants of servant of Allah.

Kola, you are a darn confused soul.

Who needs heaven when we have Jannah, InshaAllah.

Alhamdulillahi ladhi adaana al Islam.

bashy_demy:

Hmmmmm did Satan send you out to look for more people we are not part of them ok go to tell Satan that we are of Allah the most superior of everything

You guys have nothing to contribute to this thread, so it would help if you take yourselves over to the thread where your misgivings can be adressed and who knows whether you can be delivered from the powers of darkness and be translated into the kingdom of heaven.

Prophecy 101: Islam And Satan -- Walid Shoebat
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=518186.0

kola oloye:

Here am I . He was in the spirit while posting.

@Olaadegbu,
I will check the site now.God is our strength.
Please keep on praying for this our brothers in Islam that God should open their eyes of understanding.
I would like them to be a partaker of the promised Heaven.

God is a merciful God and I believe that He will open their eyes that satan has blindfolded so that they can see the light of the gospel and the Daystar in their hearts to appear. Can you imagine that satan has blindfolded them to the extent that they do not want to go to heaven when they die? God's mercy is still available for them while they are alive before it is too late.

@Olaadegbu: [Quote]You guys have nothing to contribute to this thread, so it would help if you take yourselves over to the thread where your misgivings can be adressed and who knows whether you can be delivered from the powers of darkness and be translated into the kingdom of heaven.

Prophecy 101: Islam And Satan -- Walid Shoebat
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=518186.0[/Quote]This question is domain to this topic, so dont walk on by it without answering it. It is open to every christian, including the pope in rome, the archbishop of canterbury in england. So Aletheia, and co,you can approach it, too.

Please explain and use the below verse[s] adevidence of the Deity of Christ. If you cant, therefore, we at least if you refuse to, must accept that Jesus is no God, but only in your own imaginative thought he is, without evidence, reason or rationale.

Jesus said about God; "Jesus, Your servant, whom You sent".


Jesus said to people about himself; "Of my own power, I can do nothing".

@Olaadegbu: While you are it, trying to proof the deity of servant and powerless Jesus by the two verses, please ask walid sheobat to participate if not just help.

All of you are now exposed. I do not need a verse or verses, but just the two using your ability to read english. you will not be surviving if marginally in england without some understanding of english, in reading, writing and understanding it.

A deaf man will understand when he reads, what servant means separate from Master, and what powerless means separate from Powerful. Each qualification is the opposite of the other in its set, respectively.

The same understanding will happen to a blind man when he hears the same set of qualifications, above.

But a man whose heart is diseased, deceased, with deviant and rebellious soul will not. He will accept that master and servant are equal, and same, in the same way he will say Powerful and powerless are equal and indeedthe same.

@kola oloye,

Don't mind the detractors, they will be wiser if they read and learn from the people of the book as their prophet instructed them.  While you are still checking the site I suggested prayerfully, I would like to bring to your attention our discussion in the other thread where I asked you whether Christ was created or not.  This was your response to my kweshun then:

kola oloye:

The answer to your question is capital NO.
Don't let John 1;1 confuse you.Two  of the word "WORD" in that scripture has different meanings

Check the Greek / Hebrew meaning of the first 'Word' in that statement.
BRB

To which I responded:

If so, who is this verse referring to?

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers:  all things were created by him, and for him."  Colossians 1:16

And I further replied  that you meditate further till verse 17, I mistook Colossians for Philipians that you quoted.  What I meant was that you consider Colossians.1:12-17

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers:  all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.."  Colossians 1:12-17

Let me share more thoughts on the verses above with you.

Does Colossians 1:15 highligted above teach that Jesus was created?

You will see here that Jesus is called the "first-born" of all creation.   The term "first-born" here does not imply "first-created" those two words mean two different things.   

You can see from the following points that Paul was not teaching that Jesus was created: 

[list]
[li]Birth and creation are not equivalent terms.  For example, the Bible teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin, but this does not mean that Jesus was created the day He was born of Virgin Mary and since birth and creation happen at different times, they cannot mean the same thing.[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]There are two different Greek words for "first-born" and "first-created" and Paul used the word which means "first-born" not "first-created"[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Paul was not teaching that Jesus Christ is a created being because he further taught that Jesus Christ was really the Creator of all things.  If all things were created by Christ, He  cannot be created, otherwise there is something that Christ did not create and this verse would be in error when it states that Christ created all things. [/li]
[/list]

Hebrews 1:10 and John 1:3 confirms that:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of everything that has been created and thus He must not be created, but God.

What does the title "first-born" mean?

Reputable Bible scholars say:

"This title refers to Christ's preeminent position and sovereignty over creation, not that He Himself is a part of creation.  In the Old Testament, the first-born had certain rights and a certain status, such as preeminence, a double share of the inheritance, the right of the priesthood, and supremacy.  And it can be distinctly seen from Genesis 49:3 that the meaning "priority of birth" or in "in time" has been overshadowed and even sometimes lost to the implication of the term meaning "supremacy" or "preeminence."  In other words, one does not have to have been "born first" to be called "first-born" because the term's primary meaning came to be "preeminence" and "supremacy," sometimes with nothing to do about birth."

When Paul calls Jesus the first-born, He is saying that Jesus has all the rights of the first-born and that He has the first-born status of supremacy and preeminence.  When Paul adds that He is the first-born of all creation, He is merely specifying what Christ's preeminence (i.e., His first-born status) applies to -- namely, all creation.

Furthermore, this passage clearly teaches Christ's deity.  Since the Uncreated Creator alone created all things (Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 3:4), and Colossians tells us that Christ is the Creator, we can then conclude that Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

Other Bible scholars have demonstrated that the word "born" does not mean to be "created" when we look at it from Jesus' title "Son of God."  You might misconstrue this to mean that Jesus Christ must have come into existence at some point and that He is less than God, thinking that He is the Son of God, and not God, in just the same way that a human son comes into existence after their human father, which is etched in the minds of Muslims.  This might sound plausible at first, but upon proper observation it becomes clear that this cannot be the case. The Bible is very clear in defining the title "Son of God" to mean that Jesus is of the same nature as God, just like a child is of the same nature as their parent.  And if Jesus Christ has God's nature, then He is, by definition, God, and therefore without a beginning.  The diagrams in the link suggested earlier in post #166 would attest to this truth.

@OLAADEGBU when will you stop this you rubbish talk you are the son of your father and your father name is OLAADEGBU surely they will also call you OLAADEGBU i dint doubt that. then someone carry you in a womb for 9month and that woman is call your mother and could refer to as Mrs OLAADEGBU correct,

and since that is the case Jesus is called the Son of God so they can call him Mr God right? and someone carry him in her womb for 9month and that woman is called Mary yes so are you telling this same woman could be called Mrs God? explain pls

@All who are on this thread; From post 175, above, Olaadegbu said the following about Jesus from the mouth or ideas of Paul: [Quote]You can see from the following points that Paul was not teaching that Jesus was created:[/Quote]!

I hereby, with above rest my case. I am heading home to reality. Leaving Olaadegbu alone with Paul so that they can both enjoy their lies.

Allah reveals the corruption of the Bible with that very quote from Olaadegbu by the idealism of fraud and deceit of Paul, on the actuality of Jesus. We see why the Another Comforter had to come to correct the lies, saying in truth that Jesus is creation, just like Adam is creation, too.

The ONLY Creator is God Almighty.

It is Friday and Allah has given me a great gift of assurance of His Power to make man reveal truth, even when man does not want it so.

bashy_demy:

@OLAADEGBU when will you stop this you rubbish talk you are the son of your father and your father name is OLAADEGBU surely they will also call you OLAADEGBU i dint doubt that. then someone carry you in a womb for 9month and that woman is call your mother and could refer to as Mrs OLAADEGBU correct,

and since that is the case Jesus is called the Son of God so they can call him Mr God right? and someone carry him in her womb for 9month and that woman is called Mary yes so are you telling this same woman could be called Mrs God? explain pls

A physical biological son means walad in arabic but does this also mean the same thing as Ibin if you understand arabic at all? Does the title Ibin and walad mean the same thing? Jesus was supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary, which is also affirmed in your qur'an (Surah 19:16-21). Jesus is the Son in a symbolic manner designating that He was God the Word who became man in order to save humankind from its sin. Jesus was in this sense God's only begotten Son.

bashy_demy:

@OLAADEGBU when will you stop this you rubbish talk you are the son of your father and your father name is OLAADEGBU surely they will also call you OLAADEGBU i dint doubt that. then someone carry you in a womb for 9month and that woman is call your mother and could refer to as Mrs OLAADEGBU correct,

and since that is the case Jesus is called the Son of God so they can call him Mr God right? and someone carry him in her womb for 9month and that woman is called Mary yes so are you telling this same woman could be called Mrs God? explain pls

^^John 3:12-13 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

OLAADEGBU:

A physical biological son means walad in arabic but does this also mean the same thing as Ibin if you understand arabic at all?  Does the title Ibin and walad mean the same thing?  

Hey Walad mean Boy and Bintu is for girl,  so ibn Child of Like saying Ibn OLAADEGBU mean't Child of OLAADEGBU did you get that

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus was supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born of the Virgin Mary, which is also affirmed in your qur'an (Surah 19:16-21). Jesus is the Son in a symbolic manner designating that He was God the Word who became man in order to save humankind from its sin. Jesus was in this sense God's only begotten Son.

Then the Holy Spirit most be his Father and that means Holy spirit is very good in Sex to have produce a bouncing baby boy

@Aletheia: « #179 on: Today at 04:36:46 PM »
[QUote]Quote from: bashy_demy on Today at 02:55:23 PM
@OLAADEGBU when will you stop this you rubbish talk you are the son of your father and your father name is OLAADEGBU surely they will also call you OLAADEGBU i dint doubt that. then someone carry you in a womb for 9month and that woman is call your mother and could refer to as Mrs OLAADEGBU correct,

and since that is the case Jesus is called the Son of God so they can call him Mr God right? and someone carry him in her womb for 9month and that woman is called Mary yes so are you telling this same woman could be called Mrs God? explain pls

^^John 3:12-13 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.[/Quote]And then Quran came in revelation stages, piecemeal by piecemeal to answer what had been answered and forgotten, what was answered and people changed from the answer, what was never answered before, leading toal things (clarity in truth, and separating it from falsehood), etc, 710 to 733 years after the bold. From the answer we answer the bold with verse 1 of Surah Isra or Children of Israel and verse from Surah Najm or The Star.

When you read it, you will learn that it was correct when Jesus said he does not know the future. All that is in the future lies with God. And from that future came Muhammad (AS), to proof all of the above, including that when Jesus said the bold, the event to show that it was true at the time said, and the son of man still in heaven was revealed on earth in the person of Muhammad (AS), the Unlettered, and there are a good portion of mankind who do not like it.

Surah Isra verse 1: Glorified (and Exalted) be He (Allah) [above all that (evil) they associate with Him] [Tafsir Qurtubi, Vol. 10, Page 204] Who took His slave (Muhammad SAW) for a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him (Muhammad SAW) of Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, etc.). Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.

Surah Najm verses 12 to 18: Will you then dispute with him (Muhammad SAW) about what he saw [during the Mi'raj: (Ascent of the Prophet SAW over the seven heavens)].

13: And indeed he (Muhammad SAW) saw him [Jibrael (Gabriel)] at a second descent (i.e. another time).

14: Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha [lote-tree of the utmost boundary (beyond which none can pass)],

15: Near it is the Paradise of Abode.

16: When that covered the lote-tree which did cover it!

17: The sight (of Prophet Muhammad SAW) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it)

Verse 18; Indeed he (Muhammad SAW) did see, of the Greatest Signs, of his Lord (Allah).


Read them all.Allah honored Muhammad (AS) His beloved, the love of His Angels,the beloved of all believers, Jinn and man and all that Allah creates that follow their nature, in belief and acts of obedience.

@Sweetnecta Good explanation there may Almighty Allah increase your wisdom

Regeneration
November 6, 2010

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6)

Perhaps the greatest purpose of Christianity is to take that which is only flesh and see it reborn as Spirit--to see spiritual life born where before there was only death. But then, even in the most mature of believers, there remain aspects of the old nature mixed in with--even at war with--the new. In frustration Paul cried, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me" (Romans 7:21). But each Christian should, through the power of God, be winning that war.

Christ came to regenerate the spiritual side of man. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:1-2).

Too many Christians still have their spirits buried deeply within the flesh, having "yielded [their] members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity" (Romans 6:19). But Christ came to change all that. "God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:3-4).

Through faith, "according to his abundant mercy [He] hath begotten us again" (1 Peter 1:3). To "beget" means to reproduce a like kind. Since He has "begotten us," we should be becoming like Him in attitudes and aims. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 2:5).

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it" (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24). This is the object of Christianity. JDM

For more . . . .

@Olaadegbu: « #183 on: Today at 12:31:09 PM »
[Quote]Regeneration
November 6, 2010

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6)[/Quote]Jesus was born of fresh; Mary's egg, womb, utherus, etc.



[Quote]Perhaps the greatest purpose of Christianity is to take that which is only flesh and see it reborn as Spirit--to see spiritual life born where before there was only death. But then, even in the most mature of believers, there remain aspects of the old nature mixed in with--even at war with--the new. In frustration Paul cried,[/Quote]And Paul was not known to Jesus. So how can he be the master explainer of "Jesus", except,it is own Jesus he is explaining?



[Quote] "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me" (Romans 7:21). But each Christian should, through the power of God, be winning that war.[/QUote]And the christians say that all is from God, while above Paul "find then a law".



[Quote]Christ came to regenerate the spiritual side of man. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:1-2).[/Quote]bold is arrived at based on Paul's "Found Law". No evidence from Jesus himself making him unique and above previous messengers and prophets of God, the one that came after him from a different tribe of Abraham's family, all being human, children of Adam, but ample evidences from other people, Paul the chief of them.



[Quote]Too many Christians still have their spirits buried deeply within the flesh, having "yielded [their] members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity" (Romans 6:19).[/Quote]These are servants of Christ, who himself is a servant of God Who sent him.



[Quote] But Christ came to change all that. "God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:3-4).[/Quote]And no one asked Paul to explain how the bold becomes the hallmark of christian faith? It is blind faith at work. No need of proof, though it is rather illogical.



[Quote]Through faith, "according to his abundant mercy [He] hath begotten us again" (1 Peter 1:3). To "beget" means to reproduce a like kind. Since He has "begotten us," we should be becoming like Him in attitudes and aims. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 2:5).[/Quote]The two bold do not agree; if it is the True God that the christians are taking about, the moment He willed a thing, the thing comes to state of being, not "SHOULD BE BECOMING". This alone disproves all of the Bible and any statement from the pen of Paul and his group of writers, be Pure and Factual.



[Quote]"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it" (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24). This is the object of Christianity. JDM[/Quote]Waiting, Waiting, Waiting. Wait some more. It will InshaAllah not come in your time, Olaadegbu. Not even in the time of your great, great, great, great, great, great, etc, grand children. Unless Allah will it, it will happen exactly as He wills it.



[Quote]For more . . . .[/Quote]If we read it, we shall expose it as fraud,just like the husband exposed his wife and the Christian priest having sex, by his videoing them.

Son of God/Son of Man

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20)

It is significant that although Christ clearly taught that He was the unique Son of God, He most frequently referred to Himself as Son of man, earnestly desiring that people understand His true and representative humanity.

The very first use of the phrase is in Psalm 8:4: "What is . . . the son of man, that thou visitest him?" Although David may have been thinking of all "sons of Adam" in general, the writer of Hebrews applied the passage specifically to Christ (Hebrews 2:6), "that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9). In order to save lost men, God in Christ had to become man through supernatural incarnation. Then, as perfect, sinless man, He could represent us before God, finally tasting death for every man.

The vital importance of the incarnation is affirmed by John: "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God" (1 John 4:2-3). It is noteworthy that Satan and his evil spirits would recognise Christ as the Son of God (Matthew 4:3; 8:28-29), but never as the Son of man! This reluctance seems also to characterise all the occultic philosophies of the so-called "New Age" movement, as well as all ancient and modern pantheistic religions. They speak glibly of "the Christ" as a spirit which might come on many, but bitterly refuse to acknowledge that the man Jesus was actually the Son of man, God incarnate.

Finally, it is thrilling to realise that, although He only became the Son of man through His incarnation, He will always remain the Son of man! John saw Him in His glory--as we shall see Him in eternity--as "one like unto the Son of man" (Revelation 1:13; 14:14). HMM

@Kola Oloye:

Some questions for you to ponder as you consider the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ.

#1. It is written concerning our Father in Heaven:

1 Timothy 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Exo 33:20  And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

#2. The testimony of the OT patriachs[b]. . .but they saw God![/b]

Abraham, Jacob, Moses, the elders of Israel gave a clear testimony of interacting with God in a quite personal manner. In Abraham's case, there was a shared meal and and extended discourse in which he interceded for Sodom & Gomorrah. In none of these encounters was it insinuated that it was other than Jehovah that they saw.

Gen 18:1-2  And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
^^Remember three men appeared to Abraham, later on two went on to Sodom, while the third remained with Abraham talking.(see verses 22 through Genesis19:1)

Gen 32:30  And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exo 24:10-11.  And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exo 33:11  And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

So the question to ponder and medidate on is: If no man can see God and live, then who did the OT patriachs see? For they were convinced beyond any doubt that they had seen God. Indeed they knew that seeing God meant death as evidenced by Jacob's words and in Exodus 24. . .nonetheless their testimony was that they had beheld God.

I believe the key to understanding this is found in Jesus words:

#3. It is written concerning Jesus:

John 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 6:46  Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
John 14:9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 12:45  And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

#4. Now follow the logic---remembering that the key to understanding the Bible is that from Genesis to Revelation, it testifies of Jesus (Revelation 19:10, John 5:39).

a. No man can see God
b. Some did see God
c. Jesus declares that no man can see God, but "he that seeth me (Jesus) seeth him that sent me (God)."
d. Therefore those who saw God were actually beholding Jesus: referred to as theophanies of the pre-incarnate Christ.
e. The OT scriptures are clear that the patriachs beheld God.
f. Conclusion: Jesus is God.

Still meditating.

^^^ The three are chasing after one another. None of them is on the right guidance.

@Sweetnecta,

Would you care to answer the challenge made in the quote below as to why you have Mohammad as an associate or partner of Allah?

pilgrim.1:


We know - for example: "He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah" (Qur'an 4 v 80). The problem here is twofold:

[list](a) Islam teaches that it is wrong to associate anyone with 'Allah' (for that is shirk!), and that is exactly what is happening in that verse, by making Muhammad a partner in association with obedience to 'Allah'. One may say that: "Obedience to 'Allah' = obedience to Muhammad".

Does the Qur'an not rather teach that Muslims are to take 'Allah ALONE' (Sura 73:9 - "there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender"? The word "defender" ('Wali' - Hilali-Khan) is also rendered as "protector", "guardian", or "helper" by several other translators (e.g., Sura 2:107 - Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Sher Ali, Sale, etc).

However, when we turn to the Sahih hadiths, we find indeed that Muhammad was regarded on the same platform with Allah - which is nothing short of his acting as an "associate", or "partner". Let's see a few of those Sahih hadiths:

Sahih Bukhari, Book 31, Num. 6120:
Abu Ayyub reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)
as saying: The tribes of Ansar, Muzaina and Juhaina and Ghifar and
Ashja' and those from Banu 'Abdullah, they are my friends amongst
the people and Allah and His Messenger are their protectors.

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 707:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said,
"The tribe of Quraish, the Ansar, the (people of the tribe of) Julhaina,
Muzaina, Aslam, Ashja', and Ghifar are my disciples
and have no protectors except Allah and His Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 715:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The tribes of Quraish,
Al-Ansar, Juhaina, Muzaina, Aslam, Ghifar and Ashja' are
my helpers, and they have no protector (i.e. Master)
except Allah and His Apostle."[/list]

Notice that in the last hadith quoted, BOTH 'Allah' and Muhammad are the sole 'protector(s)' - which is clearly explicated in parenthesis as MASTER! I have often pointed the fact that in early Islam, Muslims have referred to Muhammad as "Lord" - and no Muslim has come forward to deny the fact. One of these days, when the denial is made, then I will post the relevenat references for all to see!

For now, I just wanted to leave you a small quote to show that within the Hadiths ("Sahih" - authentic and undeniable), Muhammad is referred together with 'Allah' as "protector" - that is, MASTER!


[list](b) There are issues which 'Allah' never commanded and which cannot be found in the Qur'an - and yet, Muhammad commanded such things among Muslims. The problem there is that one is forced to ask if Muhammad came to preach himself or he came preaching 'Allah' alone?[/list]

The real issue here is this: WHO actually is the one who gave Muslims more commandments to obey - 'Allah' or Muhammad? If it so happens that Muhammad gave much more commandments than 'Allah' did, does it not clearly point out the fact that one is subordinate to the other?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-96685.0.html

kola oloye:

Still meditating.

. . . Let the meditation of your heart be acceptable in His sight . . .  

@Olaadegbu: « #189 on: Today at 09:34:14 AM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta,
Would you care to answer the challenge made in the quote below as to why you have Mohammad as an associate or partner of Allah?

Quote from: pilgrim.1 on December 14, 2007, 04:51 PM

We know - for example: "He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah" (Qur'an 4 v 80). The problem here is twofold:

(a) Islam teaches that it is wrong to associate anyone with 'Allah' (for that is shirk!), and that is exactly what is happening in that verse, by making Muhammad a partner in association with obedience to 'Allah'. One may say that: "Obedience to 'Allah' = obedience to Muhammad".[/Quote]Does the last bold makes sense, when Muhammad (AS) cant command that mankind worships him, while Allah commands Muhammad and all mankind to worship Him, and Muhammad (AS) obeyed in full submission? Does Pilgrim cares to show us how he/she arrives at this Obedience to Allah = obedience to Muhammad, when Muhammad (AS), is commanded to obey Allah? Pilgrim.1 must be a gimmick maker, liar. The verse of the Quran is clear, and it is the Command of Allah that one follows, Who has raised Muhammad to an esteemed and lofty place among man, all creations, including those in heaven, which one can see by the Miraj events, passing a place beyond which Jibril (AS) himself must not pass, at least on that August occasion.



[Quote] Does the Qur'an not rather teach that Muslims are to take 'Allah ALONE' (Sura 73:9 - "there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender"? The word "defender" ('Wali' - Hilali-Khan) is also rendered as "protector", "guardian", or "helper" by several other translators (e.g., Sura 2:107 - Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Sher Ali, Sale, etc).

However, when we turn to the Sahih hadiths, we find indeed that Muhammad was regarded on the same platform with Allah - which is nothing short of his acting as an "associate", or "partner". Let's see a few of those Sahih hadiths:

Sahih Bukhari, Book 31, Num. 6120:
Abu Ayyub reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)
as saying: The tribes of Ansar, Muzaina and Juhaina and Ghifar and
Ashja' and those from Banu 'Abdullah, they are my friends amongst
the people and Allah and His Messenger are their protectors.

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 707:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said,
"The tribe of Quraish, the Ansar, the (people of the tribe of) Julhaina,
Muzaina, Aslam, Ashja', and Ghifar are my disciples
and have no protectors except Allah and His Apostle."

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 56, Num. 715:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The tribes of Quraish,
Al-Ansar, Juhaina, Muzaina, Aslam, Ghifar and Ashja' are
my helpers, and they have no protector (i.e. Master)
except Allah and His Apostle."[/Quote]Is anyone without good sense here? I ask you, Pilgrim.1 and Olaadegbu, was Muhammad not the servant, slave and messenger of Allah in the community of the muslims? Is it not in the Quran when Allah says of those who consume INTEREST that if they do not stop, "Allah and His Messenger (Rasul [as]) shall declare war against them"? Are you thinking that we view this very Allah and His Messenger (AS) the same way your ignorant mind see verses of the Bible where Jesus said "If you see me,you see God", which you have used to make so foolishly I may just add as to mean jesus is God? We can readand we know when that when the President of a country sends the foreign secretary to a mission, the foreign secretary says "The President and I" does not mean I am equal to the president, since she cant (Hillary Clinton) cant send herself out, without President Barackallahu Husyaine Obama sending her or saying go and say exactly this an this. This is equal to hadith in this case.



[Quote]Notice that in the last hadith quoted, BOTH 'Allah' and Muhammad are the sole 'protector(s)' - which is clearly explicated in parenthesis as MASTER! I have often pointed the fact[b] that in early Islam, Muslims have referred to Muhammad as "Lord"[/b] - and no Muslim has come forward to deny the fact. One of these days, when the denial is made, then I will post the relevenat references for all to see![/Quote]Pilgrim.1 must be full of t. First show us a verse of Quran or hadith where Muhammad is regarded as Lord, or Partner of Allah. Every muslim calls all Messengers and Prophets (AS), and early muslims masters. In the Salah the Only Master is Allah. When you enter Salah, you do not refer to Sayiddina Muhammad (AS), other than Muhammad (AS), and the Sayiddina in Salah is Allah. He is also the Sultan. In Surah Azhab, Allah starts with "Oh Messenger, fear Allah". Please Pilgrim.1, tell me where Muhammad (AS) says to Allah "You fear me or I dont have to fear you" to Allah. Who protects Allah? Does Allah have a protector, and can Muhammad be His protector, Pilgrim.1, or you are just a darn Chrsitian missionary peddling your atrocity? Who Protects Muhammad and all believers but Allah? WHo Protects all creation but Allah? Silly Pilgrim.1. Liar I dare say.



[Quote]For now, I just wanted to leave you a small quote to show that within the Hadiths ("Sahih" - authentic and undeniable), Muhammad is referred together with 'Allah' as "protector" - that is, MASTER![/Quote]It is Allah Who honored Muhammad (AS) in the Quran saying, "I shall not punish them while you are with them; the Makkan idolaters." And we know what befell them in the Battle of Badr when Muhammad (AS) was no longer with them.



[Quote] (b) There are issues which 'Allah' never commanded and which cannot be found in the Qur'an - and yet, Muhammad commanded such things among Muslims. The problem there is that one is forced to ask if Muhammad came to preach himself or he came preaching 'Allah' alone?
[/Quote]If nothing at all, Pilgrim.1 should have read the Farewell Address of Muhammad (AS), where he declare "Allah I have delivered Your Message to Your people, Oh Muslim bear witness that I did". And all said yeah, he did. Where in there did he say I delivered our Message, or something that clouds your mind to make you arrive at the subtle lies you arrived at? You think we are like you who cant differentiate between God Almighty and His Prophet delivering His Message to the people he is sent to deliver it to? A prophet is a mouth piece and tool of God to people, delivering message and living out the message.



[Quote]The real issue here is this: WHO actually is the one who gave Muslims more commandments to obey - 'Allah' or Muhammad? If it so happens that Muhammad gave much more commandments than 'Allah' did, does it not clearly point out the fact that one is subordinate to the other.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-96685.0.html[/QUote]Allah gave Quran. Hadith and Sunnah explain Quran. Oh liar Pilgrim.1, explain yourself here and now. Did Muhammad make his own rules, outside the Rule of Allah? Of course not. So what are you talking about? Muslims are commanded to make salah. Muhammad (AS) was the foremost among his community. What kind of stupidity are you displaying here, Pilgrim.1? If you hate Islam, we already understand that since you are not a muslim and Islam rubbish your concept of MAN AS GOD, GOD WITH PARTNERSHIP. But a bold face lie is unexpected in honest discussion. Sorry I forgot you cant be honest, about anything as long as it is RELIGION, specifically Islam.