A Seed for Contemplation

The principles of the spiritual life are embodied in everything that we do. If we think they are not there, it is simply because we can’t see them or recognize them.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Those living the high spiritual life are the knowers, not believers. There is a world of difference between knowing and believing.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

Dear Ben,its been a while how are you doing iam very sure the blessings be in your life,for the past 4 months i have been visiting an eck center here in asia, wonderful and warm people been attending sasang classes, and your teaching have been very helpful in understanding the general eck teaching but however i have this very big problem like Jon Uan stated in his book"experiencing divine love" is someone trying to sneak in Jesus from the back door and rename him manhanta. Why is every thing centered solely on the manhanta while do sugmand is rarely mentioned or more like a concept.there is e very thin line (if there is any line)in eck being a man worship or idol religion. Every thing is basically subjective in eck. Why must i always need the manhanta to connect to the inner planes,do other soul or astral travelling religions connect via the mahanta too

@ otheloze

i can understand your confusion because i have been there myself before. You really need to understand the concept of the mahanta to know why.

First the mahanta is a state of consciousness that embodies the purest love of God in expression. It is the coming together of the light and sound of Eck( Holy Spirit) into a form that you can easily relate to in your inner worlds.

So in other words it is really the Eck in form. The sugmad of course is experienced through the Holy Spirit.

Experiences with the ECK involves seeing the light of God and hearing the various sounds of God that fills you with divine joy and wisdom. The mahanta who is a form you can easily relate to can appear in the form of someone you love so much to further break down the experiences you have to what your mind can easily follow and understand.

For example if you have a question about an information you need to make your life better, seeing the light of God may not make any sense or give you a satisfactory answer but seeing someone you love in the inner coming to you and giving you the answers breaking it down into steps you can easily follow will provide a much satisfactory solution.

that is the work of the Mahanta. He acts as a tranformer to the tremendous energy flowing from the God head steping it down in a way soul can absorb and grow spiritually.
Mind you the mahanta is not a human being. And is not to be worshipped either. It is simply the Holy Spirit in a form you can easily relate to. The Holy spirit uses the form of an individual who has a high level of love for life. That individual then wears the title of The mahanta, The living Eck master.

No one has ever seen the Sugmad. The Eck Masters who explore the inner worlds reports that the Sugmad is like a horizon and the inner worlds endless. No one has been able to come face to face with the sugmad. That is why you find that there is not much mention about It. What we have experienced is the spirit of the Sugmad, the Eck which pervades all existence and our goal is to become the Eck which embodies all the qualities of God.

Mind you can connect into the inner worlds on your without any body's help because you are soul. The Mahanta only offers a helping hand as a guide that can take you through the easier route you need to take to make your journey back to God easier and faster without undue wear and stress. It is up to you to accept it or reject it. There is no compulsion.

You can take it into contemplation and ask for more clarification which of course will be shown to you in a way you can easily understand.

inorder words are you saying Sri Harold klempt is the holy spirit in human form, what are the criteria to become an eckmaster as far as i know Darwin Gross tutored harold for the position. If the mahanta is truely the combination of the sound and light of sugmad, that state of conciousness shouldnt be exclusively for eckist or dont you think so? Please i would like you to reply based on the modern day eckankar reintroduced by Paul hence mentioning ancient masters who hail from other religion wont be satisfactory. I am still trying to relate the life and teachings of the old masters to modern day eck what do they share in common or are these answers only in the inner plane

@ otheloze

inorder words are you saying Sri Harold klempt is the holy spirit in human form,

every body is the holy spirit in human form. because in the Holy Spirit we live, move and have our being and it permeates our being. we are all microcosm of the Holy Spirit. the difference between us is the realization of this relationship with the Holy Spirit. as we grow in consciousness and become more and more pure we open our selves more and more for the Holy spirit to use us to serve all life. at any point in time there comes an individual whose consciousness has merged fully with that of the Holy Spirit due to his development of pure love for all life, that person then wears the title of Mahantaship and becomes the Living Eck Master. that person currently is Sri Harold Klemp whose life now is given entirely to be a pure channel for the Holy Spirit.

what are the criteria to become an eckmaster as far as i know Darwin Gross tutored harold for the position.

there is a difference between becoming an Eck Master and becoming a Living Eck Master. first it is the right of all souls to grow and become Eck Masters in their own right and the criteria is simple. development of pure love for all life and total surrender to the will of God. out of all the Eck Masters one is then chosen to become the Living Eck Master of his time. it is the duty of any current Living Eck Master to train souls to reach the level of Eck Mastership, then the Sugmad choses who becomes the next Living Eck Master.

If the mahanta is truely the combination of the sound and light of sugmad, that state of conciousness shouldnt be exclusively for eckist or dont you think so?

that state of consciousness is not the exclusive reserve of Eckists. it is a state of consciousness that any soul any where can aspire to. there are lovers of God everywhere and they are taught in the inner and taken from one level to another once the individual is open. remember that Sri Harold Klemp was in training to become a reverend minister before he came across Sri Paul Twitchell who started his training. in the past Masters were trained and taught without the confines of any religion. Eckankar as a spiritual organization was created to bring souls of similar spiritual experiences together in a world that has become rigid when it comes to spiritual matters. what really matters for any individual is how much do you love God and how much do you love Life.

Please i would like you to reply based on the modern day eckankar reintroduced by Paul hence mentioning ancient masters who hail from other religion wont be satisfactory. I am still trying to relate the life and teachings of the old masters to modern day eck what do they share in common or are these answers only in the inner plane

why it may seem that current Eck Masters are coming from the confines of Eckankar as a religion is because the platform has been created to bring all lovers of life together in the Religion. if Eckankar was not created it will have remained the way it was in the past. any lover of life who has developed a large amount of love, no matter where he is or what his religion is , is approached in the inner by the spiritual masters and his training started to make him a better channel for the Holy spirit. Eckankar has been able to separate social and cultural issues from truth in the way it is presented and soul is shown a way that takes you to the heart of God without any undue detours.
if you go through the teachings of the old masters you will observe that the common thread that runs through it all is the concept of love being the beginning and end of all spiritual teachings. St Paul clearly captured it in the Christian Bible when he talked about charity or what we know as detached love. if at the end of the day you have prophetic powers and you can heal millions of their sicknesses. even if you can move mountains and at the end of the day you do not have love, then you have achieved nothing.

the beauty of Eckankar still lies on the fact that nobody compels you to believe or accept any thing you are told. you must learn how to become a spiritual scientist and verify everything for yourself by asking the Holy Spirit directly. remember in the bible Jesus told his disciples that the Holy spirit will come and lead them to all truth. that basic truth remains today. Eckankar has brought out an easy way of linking up with the Holy spirit, which is the singing of HU, the holy name of God which any soul can use no matter its religion. it is up to you as soul to use it or not. the choice always remains yours.

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@ otheloze

inorder words are you saying Sri Harold klempt is the holy spirit in human form,

every body is the holy spirit in human form. because in the Holy Spirit we live, move and have our being and it permeates our being. we are all microcosm of the Holy Spirit. the difference between us is the realization of this relationship with the Holy Spirit. as we grow in consciousness and become more and more pure we open our selves more and more for the Holy spirit to use us to serve all life. at any point in time there comes an individual whose consciousness has merged fully with that of the Holy Spirit due to his development of pure love for all life, that person then wears the title of Mahantaship and becomes the Living Eck Master. that person currently is Sri Harold Klemp whose life now is given entirely to be a pure channel for the Holy Spirit.

what are the criteria to become an eckmaster as far as i know Darwin Gross tutored harold for the position.

there is a difference between becoming an Eck Master and becoming a Living Eck Master. first it is the right of all souls to grow and become Eck Masters in their own right and the criteria is simple. development of pure love for all life and total surrender to the will of God. out of all the Eck Masters one is then chosen to become the Living Eck Master of his time. it is the duty of any current Living Eck Master to train souls to reach the level of Eck Mastership, then the Sugmad choses who becomes the next Living Eck Master.

If the mahanta is truely the combination of the sound and light of sugmad, that state of conciousness shouldnt be exclusively for eckist or dont you think so?

that state of consciousness is not the exclusive reserve of Eckists. it is a state of consciousness that any soul any where can aspire to. there are lovers of God everywhere and they are taught in the inner and taken from one level to another once the individual is open. remember that Sri Harold Klemp was in training to become a reverend minister before he came across Sri Paul Twitchell who started his training. in the past Masters were trained and taught without the confines of any religion. Eckankar as a spiritual organization was created to bring souls of similar spiritual experiences together in a world that has become rigid when it comes to spiritual matters. what really matters for any individual is how much do you love God and how much do you love Life.

Please i would like you to reply based on the modern day eckankar reintroduced by Paul hence mentioning ancient masters who hail from other religion wont be satisfactory. I am still trying to relate the life and teachings of the old masters to modern day eck what do they share in common or are these answers only in the inner plane

why it may seem that current Eck Masters are coming from the confines of Eckankar as a religion is because the platform has been created to bring all lovers of life together in the Religion. if Eckankar was not created it will have remained the way it was in the past. any lover of life who has developed a large amount of love, no matter where he is or what his religion is , is approached in the inner by the spiritual masters and his training started to make him a better channel for the Holy spirit. Eckankar has been able to separate social and cultural issues from truth in the way it is presented and soul is shown a way that takes you to the heart of God without any undue detours.
if you go through the teachings of the old masters you will observe that the common thread that runs through it all is the concept of love being the beginning and end of all spiritual teachings. St Paul clearly captured it in the Christian Bible when he talked about charity or what we know as detached love. if at the end of the day you have prophetic powers and you can heal millions of their sicknesses. even if you can move mountains and at the end of the day you do not have love, then you have achieved nothing.

the beauty of Eckankar still lies on the fact that nobody compels you to believe or accept any thing you are told. you must learn how to become a spiritual scientist and verify everything for yourself by asking the Holy Spirit directly. remember in the bible Jesus told his disciples that the Holy spirit will come and lead them to all truth. that basic truth remains today. Eckankar has brought out an easy way of linking up with the Holy spirit, which is the singing of HU, the holy name of God which any soul can use no matter its religion. it is up to you as soul to use it or not. the choice always remains yours.

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1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable
; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

@benodic
Just came across the above scripture in the bible, sounds so much like eck teachings could you throw more light on it?

@ Pastor Kun

1 Timothy 6:15-16
15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable
; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

@benodic
Just came across the above scripture in the bible, sounds so much like eck teachings smiley could you throw more light on it?

i usually do not like going into any controversies with any christian concerning their doctrine or what they regard to be the truth because the view point through which i see things is totally different from the view point you will see it all because of different states of consciousness.

The Christian Bible is a compilation of people's experiences and understanding of God two thousand and more years ago. there is no comparison between that to the current state of consciousness in the world today which has seen a lot of advances and tremendous growth. at a time when darkness was prevalent in the world any soul coming with any bit of light will be practically worshiped and even regarded as all and all and no one else will ever come up to his status.

this is one of the traps of maya that soul usually envelopes itself with. this results in worship of personality. the soul no longer borders to look within itself to realize that it has the same divine destiny as the teacher too and all its time is wasted worshiping the teacher and making the teacher the sole heir of God's glory. also the tendency to presume that what some one wrote in a book is the ultimate truth not taking into consideration that any one who writes about God usually draws from his or her own level of understanding and consciousness and can not give you more than he or she knows about God.

the books, the writings are only to serve as an inspiration to ginger you to delve into your own inner worlds to realize your own son ship and relationship with God. for example St Paul said that he knew a man in Christ who was caught up to the 3rd heaven and he heard words which were not lawful for a man to utter. instead of just accepting this experience a more serious soul will thrive to have the experience too and go to that level of heaven to see what that man saw and to find out why it was not lawful to utter. such a soul is ready to know truth first hand not second hand or third hand through the eyes of another soul. such a soul is ready to begin the journey home.

otherwise you can continue in the trap of exalting a fellow soul who have achieved realization and continue waiting for him to come back physically before you know the truth. those who are on the high quest for God realization really do not care or bother because there is no time to lose in pursuing shadows. all energy should be spent in tapping from the Holy spirit which is within all souls and who will lead all souls to all truth here and now. learn to go within and verify truth. if you really trust your spiritual master, invite him for a dialogue in the inner planes. he will come. ask him the truth. ask him if what Eckankar is presenting as truth is a fallacy or not. once you are able to take that step of being an inner directed seeker who relies more on the revelations of the Holy Spirit then my work is done. the choice is yours.

Ben permit me to patronise you, u seem to understand these things holistically.Please can you please tell me more about generational ties is it possible for a sole to negatively affect destinies of other souls or are each soul affected my karmic debt. What is your take on homosexuality.

@Benodic
Thanx for the response, but you didn't address the question I raised concerning God being an 'unapproachable light'.

@ otheloze

Ben permit me to patronise you, u seem to understand these things holistically.Please can you please tell me more about generational ties is it possible for a sole to negatively affect destinies of other souls or are each soul affected my karmic debt.

if you are given an insight into the karmic webs into which we have entangled ourselves with others over millions of life times you will be amazed. soul have the free choice to live its life the way it wants but any violation of spiritual laws creates a karmic debt that must be paid for, if not in that life time then in another life time.

some people while in the process of paying off a karmic debt in a lifetime end up creating more debt hence entangling themselves more in a karmic web. it is karmic webs which entangles a group of souls that create generational ties where you see the same cycle repeating itself in each generation. those entangled in such a generational tie of course will have difficulty achieving the necessary freedom needed to live up to their destiny unless they find a way of paying off the debts.
for example if you killed someone in a lifetime, then in another lifetime your life will be placed in that person's hands to deal back to you as you dealt to him. in that instance your destiny is in his hands because you are indebted to him.
that is why in life you learn to give only love to all life and do everything in the name of God and as God directs you. that way you will be able to avoid those karmic webs while paying off the ones you acquired from other past lives.

What is your take on homosexuality.

if you look at the concept of homosexuality from the viewpoint of soul then you will have a better understanding of the phenomenon and remove yourself from the crowd that sit by the sidelines and turn themselves into judges of human behaviour.

firstly soul is neither male or female. soul only wears the male and female bodies in order to experience life in the lower worlds which of course are worlds of polarity. in one lifetime soul will come as a female and in another it will come as a male. it continues alternating it like that in order to gather full experience in both bodies. and remember there is only one thing that is real to soul as it keeps on coming and going and that is love and those it has been able to have loving connections with. soul always remembers that. it matters not to it whether the other soul is now a male or female. once it sees the soul it has been able to make a connection with in a past life the feelings are rekindled and the connections reawakened. the bonds are so strong that even when the society frowns at it they just do not care.

you can still take it into contemplation to get more insights.

@ Pastor Kun

@Benodic
Thanx for the response, but you didn't
address the question I raised concerning
God being an 'unapproachable light'.

i believe i did address it but in a round about manner.
The spiritual travelers who are ever going deeper and deeper exploring the pure spiritual planes of God have brought back a lot of knowledge about the nature of God.

And most of it of course can not be put into words that the human brain can understand. That is why they always encourage soul to make the journey themselves and see things for themselves.

One of the knowledge they brought back is that nobody has been able to fully comprehend what God really is. What they experienced in an ever expanding awareness is the essence that flows out of the God centre that animates all life and carries the will of God. That is the Holy Spirit which we call the Eck.

The Eck manifests as light and sound. The higher the spiritual plane the brighter the light and the purer the sound. Soul's destiny is to merge fully with this light and sound which fully embodies the will of God.
A soul that is still encumbered by impurities in it lower bodies or is timid and fearful will not be able to approach the light of God. Then that soul comes out after its experience to report that God is an inapproachable light. If you like you can accept that or you can strive to become a spiritual traveler and see the light for yourself. Then you will know whether it is approachable or not.

This is interesting. . .

A Seed For Contemplation

The man who can express his experiences in the realm of God does so by his deeds and shining countenance, not by words alone

The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad vol 1

A Seed For Contemplation

Only the ECK can transform the human state of consciousness into divine self-realization, and gradually lead soul on to the God State.

The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Vol 1

A Seed for Contemplation

When you don’t put a definite shape to what you imagine, Divine Spirit can have unlimited freedom to fill that mold. But if you put a limit to it, you often strike out because you’ve allowed for only one possible outcome.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

To a man who has achieved self- and God-Realization, all religions, all philosophies, becomes just so many paths leading to the ECK. Through any of them, the seeker of God can reach the divine ECK, the immaculate path to the Ultimate Reality.

The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Vol. 1

A Seed For Contemplation

To the man who has touched the robe of God there is no distinction of race or belief, no consciousness of nationality, and no religious difference. The ECK has cleared away all conflicts and oppositions from his mental processes.

The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Vol. 1

*Trolling*

A Seed for Contemplation

At times Divine Spirit heals directly, at
other times It leads one to the right
medical doctor. Sometimes It will assist
in the healing and treatment we are
presently undergoing. We must
inwardly turn everything over to the
guidance of this Supreme Force while
making every effort to find the most
suitable medical help.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

When the blessings of Spirit are given to us without struggle, we don’t recognize the treasure that is in our hands.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

benodic: @ otheloze



if you are given an insight into the karmic webs into which we have entangled ourselves with others over millions of life times you will be amazed. soul have the free choice to live its life the way it wants but any violation of spiritual laws creates a karmic debt that must be paid for, if not in that life time then in another life time.

some people while in the process of paying off a karmic debt in a lifetime end up creating more debt hence entangling themselves more in a karmic web. it is karmic webs which entangles a group of souls that create generational ties where you see the same cycle repeating itself in each generation. those entangled in such a generational tie of course will have difficulty achieving the necessary freedom needed to live up to their destiny unless they find a way of paying off the debts.
for example if you killed someone in a lifetime, then in another lifetime your life will be placed in that person's hands to deal back to you as you dealt to him. in that instance your destiny is in his hands because you are indebted to him.

@benodic...l imagine the chickens etc we kill for food--which are souls too--is karma at play?...either they killed us in a previous lifetime or they will be given the privileged to repay the gesture sometime ?...am taking it from the logical point of view, and stands corrected!

that is why in life you learn to give only love to all life and do everything in the name of God and as God directs you. that way you will be able to avoid those karmic webs while paying off the ones you acquired from other past lives.




if you look at the concept of homosexuality from the viewpoint of soul then you will have a better understanding of the phenomenon and remove yourself from the crowd that sit by the sidelines and turn themselves into judges of human behaviour.

firstly soul is neither male or female. soul only wears the male and female bodies in order to experience life in the lower worlds which of course are worlds of polarity. in one lifetime soul will come as a female and in another it will come as a male. it continues alternating it like that in order to gather full experience in both bodies. and remember there is only one thing that is real to soul as it keeps on coming and going and that is love and those it has been able to have loving connections with. soul always remembers that. it matters not to it whether the other soul is now a male or female. once it sees the soul it has been able to make a connection with in a past life the feelings are rekindled and the connections reawakened. the bonds are so strong that even when the society frowns at it they just do not care.

you can still take it into contemplation to get more insights.

@benodic...l imagine the chickens etc we kill for food--which are souls too--is karma at play?...either they killed us in a previous lifetime or they will be given the privileged to repay the gesture sometime ?...am taking it from the logical point of view, and stands corrected!



ps:l finally found and attended an eck worship service where l am...its a cool little group ...we hope to begin a satsang soon!plus am thankful for this whole thread! l found eckankar here ...perhaps it was a play of karma/past-life...but for sure the handiwork of the Eck and of course an old friend ! HUUUUUUUU...May the blessings be

@ chieveboy

...l imagine the chickens etc
we kill for food--which are souls too--is
karma at play?...either they killed us in a
previous lifetime or they will be given
the privileged to repay the gesture
sometime ?...am taking it from the
logical point of view, and stands
corrected!

there is no karma involved in killing chicken for food. Plants and lower animals are fulfilling their role in life by providing nutrition for higher forms of life like us. However you incure karma if you kill animals for fun or for any other sadistic purposes.

A Seed for Contemplation

A gift of true love is always God’s love
to you that you give to another.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Life is a mystery until we come to the
path of ECK (Divine Spirit) and begin to
understand that we can be the creators
of our own world.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Become an expert in something. You need to be grounded in something. When you do something for God, for the highest principle, you do each step until it sings.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Truth becomes more sublime for an
individual who develops in himself the
capacity to give more compassion and
love to all creatures.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Every problem contains a solution. The
key is self-discipline and surrender of
the mental habits to the Holy Spirit.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

The spiritual life is an active one. We recognize that each experience that comes our way is spiritually instructive.

If someone needs our help, we do what we can to the best of our ability.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

Our body is a temple of God. We must
take care of it because it is a house for
Soul.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

A Seed for Contemplation

When you become as little children, you shall see the kingdom of heaven. You will carry no ideas from the past to hold you, none of the future to frighten you, but just the present, with the assurance that everything you need to know is already at hand—every answer, every solution.

Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul