monkeyleg:

@Beaf,

Sorry, but I am begining to get very confused where you stand on this whole issue. And by the way, thanks for letting us know you are not an Ijawman. You have often accused me of being an Ijaw hater when I speak the truth.

gbam, so if we talk about ijaw stop talking as if u are an ijaw man beaf

@ Beaf

Tell us about the Delta axis of the struggle and who the actors were before 1999, what was their means of livelihood before 1999?

Tell us about Government Ekpelumo Tompolo of camp 5 and who he was before 1999?.

Anybody who knows about the history of Militancy know that it all started between Asari Dokubo and Ateke Tom in River State before it spread to other States like Bayelsa, Delta States, Abia States, Akwa Ibom, Cross River States.

Tell us whether it is not the same thugs that are always the foot soldiers of most Ijaw vs Itsekiri war that metamorphosed into Militants/freedom fighters because they simply saw a new means of making money that they could spin into a noble fight?

This madness will consume us all except Niger Delta indigenes stand up for the truth. Forget all the noise about the creeks being a difficult terain for soldiers. These criminals have not been smoked out simply because so far the militants are winning the propaganda warfare and claiming to be the just ones.
The moment it is established that these boys are criminals not fighting for anybody's future. They will be defeated outrightly. Nigerian Government has failed so far because they have simply lost the moral authority to act.

^
Have you wondered whether the Ijaw - Itsekiri war was about money making? I can tell you for definite that it never ever was, so your whole writeup above is creaky, faulty and far away from the truth.

As to the creeks being difficult terrain for Nigerian troops, lets make a slight correction; it is IMPOSSIBLE terrain for them. In the battles around Warri, they could only bomb at a distance from the the air, sea and land; whenever they entered the creeks, they came back as dead men, hence the amnesty even after arming JTF with $3.5billion.
There is a common sense path that we can follow.

mikeansy:

@ Beaf

Tell us about the Delta axis of the struggle and who the actors were before 1999, what was their means of livelihood before 1999?

Tell us about Government Ekpelumo Tompolo of camp 5 and who he was before 1999?.

Anybody who knows about the history of Militancy know that it all started between Asari Dokubo and Ateke Tom in River State before it spread to other States like Bayelsa, Delta States, Abia States, Akwa Ibom, Cross River States.

Tell us whether it is not the same thugs that are always the foot soldiers of most Ijaw vs Itsekiri war that metamorphosed into Militants/freedom fighters because they simply saw a new means of making money that they could spin into a noble fight?

This madness will consume us all except Niger Delta indigenes stand up for the truth. Forget all the noise about the creeks being a difficult terain for soldiers. These criminals have not been smoked out simply because so far the militants are winning the propaganda warfare and claiming to be the just ones.
The moment it is established that these boys are criminals not fighting for anybody's future. They will be defeated outrightly. Nigerian Government has failed so far because they have simply lost the moral authority to act.

gbam, the sooner the nigerian military get involve the better it is for the nation

this people call themselves freedom fighters i pity them

they are putting there people at  un-level grounds

because if jonathan do not become the president, the new president will deploy the northern/yoruba/igbo military there and they would not only kill the militants but also kill the innocent people living there

Beaf:

^
Have you wondered whether the Ijaw - Itsekiri war was about money making? I can tell you for definite that it never ever was, so your whole writeup above is creaky, faulty and far away from the truth.

^^^^^

I have no interest here what the war was about but like most tribal wars, the foot soldiers used to fight are usually thugs and roadside thieves.

This fact is also true of Ogoni vs Okrika war and the rest of them.

Just like whenever there is war in Jos, Alamajiri boys are used as foot soldiers.

This was simply the story of most of this now freedom fighters before 1999.

Tribal chiefs usually deploy these boys to fight these wars. The tribal chiefs may have whatever agenda, sometimes they are usually struggle for land or political relevance. But the Boys usually used to execute these wars are simply everyday thugs and motor park thieves.

^
You are simply begging the question.

Lets for reasons of analysis, assume you are correct that they were easy foot soldiers. What caused them to be foot soldiers? Was it that they were employed?
we both know that the answer is no. So, if they were unemployed could they go back to their villages to farm or fish like is done in other parts of the country as a way out? Again the answer is no.
The big questions you need to tackle are why they had nothing to fall back to and why they are so many. Over to you.

@Beaf,

When I critisized GEJ on certain policies and how me has conducted his affairs since getting into office, you accused me of hating Ijaw people. I tried to explain to you, that I am from the ND region, and I refuse to accept that GEJ is the best we can produce from that region, and I still stand by that point.

Now if you are not from Ijaw land, can you please confirm where you are from, because I struggle to see how you can understand the real issues if you are not from that region. Beside I think more importantly the way your Oga has handled things has not been the best, and I think you would do him better service by accepting the truth.

Listen my bro, Oga does not have the understanding to deal with this issue, and besides he is trapped in a sentimental ring.

^
So, your point is?

@Beaf,

I wont even honour you with an answer, if you dont get my point

Beaf:

^
You are simply begging the question.

Lets for reasons of analysis, assume you are correct that they were easy foot soldiers. What caused them to be foot soldiers? Was it that they were employed?
we both know that the answer is no. So, if they were unemployed could they go back to their villages to farm or fish like is done in other parts of the country as a way out? Again the answer is no.
The big question you need to tackle is why they had nothing to fall back to. Over to you.

I have said it before that failure of Government contributed to this failure of society. But there are also others who faced with this dificult situation made other choices. These boys are not the only ones suffering from bad leadership in Nigeria. They are simply causing insecurity for everyone else and if there is any money that would have been channelled towards development they are currently being spent on an amnesty programme that rewards criminality but have nothing for hard working Niger-Deltans.

Who will give amnesty to law abiding citizens?

These boys simply have no right to take the laws into their hands. We leave in a democracy, if these boys believe the Government is not doing well they can simply organize themselves and vote the PDP Government out and elect whoever will look after their interest.

Poor leadership should no longer be an excuse for promoting kidnapping, rape, and all sorts of criminality because they are simply inflicting more injury on an already suffering population.

It is time for Government to act. It is also time for the ND indigenes to report all militants within their community.

monkeyleg:

@Beaf,

I wont even honour you with an answer, if you dont get my point

Your point was simply to derail the thread with your sentimental posts as usual. If you don't mind, I'm having quite a productive conversation with mikeansy. Thank you.

@Mikeansy,

Failure of leadership. The present leadership is too weak and directionless. Nigerians, and ND people now have an opportunity to assess this government and ensure they are kicked out come 2011

Monkeyleg

Beaf is an Urhobo man I think. He is happy to call his land Ijaw land when sharing oil wealth from the Federal Government but when it comes to Delta State local politics he may remind you where he is from Urhobo.


Honestly if I were from Bayelsa I will not accept a situation where my homeland is turned into some kind of warfront.

Resource Control, True Fedralism, etc will be achieved in the NASS by sending bills and delibrating on them on the floor of NASS and passing them into law. No amount of killing ND citizens will by default change any of these.

This is my problem with Jonathan too. He is not smart at all. Jonathan inviting Boyloaf and co to Aso Rock was a mistake. I don't think anybody is in doubt where his loyalty will be being an Otueke man. But not a lot will be achieved under a situation where the rest of the country sees the President as the spokesman of MEND.

monkeyleg:

@Mikeansy,

Failure of leadership. The present leadership is too weak and directionless. Nigerians, and ND people now have an opportunity to assess this government and ensure they are kicked out come 2011

Going by beaf's comments compared with that of the core Niger Deltans(Ijaws),Beaf seems to attach more sentiments than the actual people.Could he be an Abuja based Politician?

He has never seen anything wrong with all decisions and statements made by FG so far.

@Mikeansy,

You have said it all. I am from the ND region and I am not convinced that Oga is doing a good job. Far from it, he has allowed sentiments to cloud his judgement, that is if he had a good sense of judgement in the first place. To be honest, these boys have got him by the balls, and they are going to squeeze him until he shouts Boyloaf for VP

This is all fallout of amnesty program.

How many warlords can FG afford to pay off?

FG needs to cut off the head of the monster, namely ex-military bigwigs involved in bunkering and paying these boys to do so.

In 1998 when IBB called the military guys together to usher in democracy, oil bunkering was their means of ensuring they were well placated.

mikeansy:

I have said it before that failure of Government contributed to this failure of society. But there are also others who faced with this dificult situation made other choices. These boys are not the only ones suffering from bad leadership in Nigeria. They are simply causing insecurity for everyone else and if there is any money that would have been channelled towards development they are currently being spent on an amnesty programme that rewards criminality but have nothing for hard working Niger-Deltans.

Who will give amnesty to law abiding citizens?

These boys simply have no right to take the laws into their hands. We leave in a democracy, if these boys believe the Government is not doing well they can simply organize themselves and vote the PDP Government out and elect whoever will look after their interest.

Poor leadership should no longer be an excuse for promoting kidnapping, despoil, and all sorts of criminality because they are simply inflicting more injury on an already suffering population.

It is time for Government to act. It is also time for the ND indigenes to report all militants within their community.

You are blaming the victim. Individuals have different strengths, some can bear heavy loads in a given circumstance, while others break; some might have an escape route (friends, family, luck etc), while others have the exact opposite.

Even if all the boys were born bad (scientific impossibility), would you blame them for having less opportunity than is available elsewhere in the country? When employment hope is lost, others can farm, they can't; others can fish, they can't. They simply have no fallback from rampant unemployment; to make things that bit more hellish, they also have a higher incidence of skin, respiratory and other pollution related health problems.

For some folk, the rope is really thin. Rather than govt looking at the underlying issues, they decided to first arm up JTF with $3.5billion for offensives in the ND. That money is now wasted. When the military offensive strategy failed, they decided to bribe every armed person in the ND in a sham amnesty; genuine militants and criminals alike. Now that foolish step is failing, where next?

The simplest solution is to seat down and hammer out an equitable existence for every single Nigerian, especially those in the ND. That small step wouldn't cost $3.5billion, but it will be more effective than a million JTF's.
The problems thrown up by Nigeria's strange federalism are amplified several fold in the ND. Fix Nigeria and stop blaming the victims.

abagoro:

Going by beaf's comments compared with that of the core Niger Deltans(Ijaws),Beaf seems to attach more sentiments than the actual people.Could he be an Abuja based Politician?

He has never seen anything wrong with all decisions and statements made by FG so far.

As usual, you provide some low IQed entertainment!
. . ."Core Niger Deltans"!!! Damn!!!!

mikeansy:

Some people are just playing with fire. MEND whether Fake or Real is in nobody's interest.

I grew up in Borikiri area of PH. In those days Bayelsa had not been created and PH was the capital city of the old River State.

The main militant leaders who form the core of militancy in the Niger-Delta were simply pick pockets, panickers, thugs and thieves of yesteryears. I can not stress this fact enough. I never believed that somehow these group of boys can truly transform into freedom fighters and never believed the story of militancy in ND will end well. Because when you arm illiterates and untrained militia they usually turn around to hunt their own people.

While I will be ready to bear witness anytime anyday that may be these boys would have had a different future if we lived in a different country with a different responsible Government; the fact remains that there were other youths who as well had difficult up bringing but made different choices.

Some are saying militancy has ended because there is nothing these boys are fight for anymore. Nothing can be further from the truth. These boys are fighting for what they have always fought for. "Their pockets".  This is what they believed in 20years ago, this is what they believed in 10 or 5years ago and this is what the thugs trained under these boys will continue to believe in.

While Ateke Tom, Fara, Boyloaf and co may have been settled. Their boys have not been settled and the boys of their boys are yet to be settled. So this amnesty programme was never going to work.

If I was a junior militant with the ambition to be as rich as Ateke someday tell me why I will drop my arms and embrace some ridiculous amnesty programme when there are simply no consequences of me continuing kidnap-for-cash programmes, bunkering or at worst being at the centre of the next peace negotiations when I must have created more trouble and where I will then part with huge cash sums?

So we are simply creating a very dangerous loop here. As a Niger-Delta citizen with most of my family still in PH, I think it is time to call these criminals bluff. Anybody blowing up pipelines or kidnapping anyone should be captured and dealt with severely.

I am in support of 100% resource control for the Niger-Delta, I am in support of True Federalism. I believe the answer or route to these things is politics rather than making my homeland unsafe for all law abiding citizens.
True federalism or Resource Countrol will be achieved in the NASS by passing laws not through bombings in the creeks.

The quiet and calm PH I grew up as a boys going to school no longer exists. In those days our role models were Finidi George, Furo Iyenemi, Emmanuel Ebiede etc. These days the celebrities and folks kids hear about are now Fara Dagogo and Ateke Tom.

Who wants to live in a society like that?

+1

I just wish more of our folks will listen to people like you. Not just in the ND, but all over Nigeria.

People like Mikeansy, Mike oscar, Ibime and  other folks have posted several times about the criminal activities of these murderers masquerading as freedom fighters in their communities.

My take is that they are all just pawns used by those who control Nigeria ---> Big oil and their criminal Nigerian Partners.

EX: If pipeline attacks can affect the rise and fall of oil prices on the world market, I can only imagine the calculations going on in the minds of foreign and local Oil speculators who have access to these young men.

Lets not even talk about Oil bunkering and the millions of dollars they can make from that.

An analysis by Patrick Naagbanton was posted here ---> https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=506848.msg6685538#msg6685538


We have a conspiracy of murderous fools situation going on in Nigeria, the ND is a good example of that.  Liberia, Somalia, Sierra Leone did not happen overnight.

I hope sensible people in the corridors of power will listen and act before it's too late for my people.

<b>Exxon Mobil Says Offshore Platform in Nigeria Attacked November 15, 2010, 9:03 AM EST<\b>

Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Exxon Mobil Corp.’s Nigerian unit said armed attackers boarded one of its offshore platforms on the country’s southeast coast yesterday amid increasing violence in the oil-rich region.

Exxon didn’t say whether anyone had been hurt or what damage had been done. “Relevant government and security agencies have been informed and appropriate response measures are underway,” the company said in an e-mailed statement today.

<link>http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-15/exxon-mobil-says-offshore-platform-in-nigeria-attacked.html<\linkl>

Military action is not the solution to the nd militancy. Even though the whole military in naija is comanded into nd creeks it wouldn't solve this militancy rather it will generate into a general lawlessness. Even the international community knws this, whenever kidnapping is reported from the nd u hear them saying, the niger delta is rich in oil but the people are living in abject poverty. I can tell u after amnesty law abiding youths were regretting that they shld have gone into to register for the amnesty program, u may not knw if they are the ones as reports has it that they are new set of militants. Forget about amnesty, bring up a policy that will be beneficial to all niger deltans.

Ibime:

This is all fallout of amnesty program.

How many warlords can FG afford to pay off?

FG needs to cut off the head of the monster, namely ex-military bigwigs involved in bunkering and paying these boys to do so.

In 1998 when IBB called the military guys together to usher in democracy, oil bunkering was their means of ensuring they were well placated.

It isn't just ex-Generals, political bigwigs like Odili and Atiku are neck deep in dirty oil politics.

Even though the entire forces in nigeria is comanded into the nd creeks it wouldn't solve their problem it will only be termed political GENOCIDE or i can call it ROBBERY. The international community knw this. Whenever kidnapping is reported from the nd delta by int'nal media it is always said that the economy of nigeria depends on the nd, but Amnesty was a good start it shld have been diversified and the law abiding citizens of the nd integrated into this by bringing up policies that will alleviate the cry of the nd'tans.

Beaf:

It isn't just ex-Generals, political bigwigs like Odili and Atiku are neck deep in dirty oil politics.

Not just Odili and Atiku.Obasanjo,Danjuma,IBB,Azazi,Alamiesigha,Ibori,Kalu and even the so-called richest African.

Why do you believe that the present crop of politicians are not involved in bunkering too?

I have hints on most of those deals done in Rivers State.That is the reason why I still advocate for dialogue and true federalism.It is not right to kill and imprison used people just because you think that their services are no longer required.

abagoro:

Not just Odili and Atiku.Obasanjo,Danjuma,IBB,Azazi,Alamiesigha,Ibori,Kalu and even the so-called richest African.

Why do you believe that the present crop of politicians are not involved in bunkering too?

I have hints on most of those deals done in Rivers State.That is the reason why I still advocate for dialogue and true federalism.It is not right to kill and imprison used people just because you think that their services are no longer required.

I used those two, because I believe they are the most dangerous examples and they are even known internationally. I know nothing about most of those you mentioned.
But bros, inasmuch as I'm an avid true federalism evangelist, your reasons for it are not valid (or you haven't made yourself clear).

Nsiman:

Military action is not the solution to the nd militancy. Even though the whole military in naija is comanded into nd creeks it wouldn't solve this militancy rather it will generate into a general lawlessness. Even the international community knws this, whenever kidnapping is reported from the nd u hear them saying, the niger delta is rich in oil but the people are living in abject poverty. I can tell u after amnesty law abiding youths were regretting that they shld have gone into to register for the amnesty program, u may not knw if they are the ones as reports has it that they are new set of militants. Forget about amnesty, bring up a policy that will be beneficial to all niger deltans.

Well that is a red herring. Who said anything about military action? However these bandits must be ruthlessly dealt with by the police and other security forces and certainly not by the discredited policy of appeasement or giving monetary inducements.

Beaf:

For some folk, the rope is really thin. Rather than govt looking at the underlying issues, they decided to first arm up JTF with $3.5billion for offensives in the ND. That money is now wasted. When the military offensive strategy failed, they decided to bribe every armed person in the ND in a sham amnesty; genuine militants and criminals alike. Now that foolish step is failing, where next?

The simplest solution is to seat down and hammer out an equitable existence for every single Nigerian, especially those in the ND. That small step wouldn't cost $3.5billion, but it will be more effective than a million JTF's.
The problems thrown up by Nigeria's strange federalism are amplified several fold in the ND. Fix Nigeria and stop blaming the victims.

Well maybe they should scrap the ineffective Nigeria Police Force and replace them with a well equipped national guard with a mandate to secure and defend all national strategic assets.
The stark reality is that once a man has chosen to be a bandit and to live by the sword ,so to say, such a person must necessarily die by the sword.
There should be no reward for banditry.

The problem is that there is no path to true federalism or resource control through the NASS, the only option left is the explosion of the country.

Pharoh:

The problem is that there is no path to true federalism or resource control through the NASS, the only option left is the explosion of the country.

Even at that there should still be no concession to bandits. But seriously what is the population of bandits and how much firepower would be required to totally exterminate their menace.
Be that as it may there can be and will be no national conference or confederation as the sovereignty and unity of Nigeria is totally non-negotiable.

tensor777:

Even at that there should still be no concession to bandits. But seriously what is the population of bandits and how much firepower would be required to totally exterminate their menace.
Be that as it may there can be and will be no national conference or confederation as the sovereignty and unity of Nigeria is totally non-negotiable.

So that the mad cycle of the last 50years begins again?

We need to re-negotiate how Nigeria should work, otherwise we will continue this circus for another 50years.

Thats not me begging you to see reason, it is simply a statement of fact.

tensor777:

Even at that there should still be no concession to bandits. But seriously what is the population of bandits and how much firepower would be required to totally exterminate their menace.
Be that as it may there can be and will be no national conference or confederation as the sovereignty and unity of Nigeria is totally non-negotiable.

To me i still believe there are some genuine bandits and there are some of us that are angry with the system but has not taken up arms.  I am not in support of wiping bandits away if we cannot rid every corrupt entity in Nigeria. From the banks, market place, schools, government, street and religious places you find corrupt people. Maybe when we apply the Chinese approach of zero corruption then we can move forward.

You want us to exterminate bandits but is that the greatest problem facing Nigeria? why don't we start tackling this issue from the top to the bottom.  The unity and sovereignty is very much negotiable because even Gowon said that  there was no basis for our unity. The only thing uniting us is the crude oil exploration. We need to renegotiate our interrelations based on justice, fairness and true federalism then we are leaving no other option on the table except the explosion of the country.

mikeansy:

So that the mad cycle of the last 50years begins again?

We need to re-negotiate how Nigeria should work, otherwise we will continue this circus for another 50years.

Thats not me begging you to see reason, it is simply a statement of fact.

The circle will not go another 50 years before it will explode, even the united states has already predicted 2015. I believe within 20 years from now, if we do not comeback to the right path then this country will explode.