queensmith:

What are you saying? the western worlds obsession with image is extremely unhealthy! its not even accompanied with isolation, its accompanied with death, sickness, psychological trauma and self harm. An those are what people do to themselves!

The best thing a parent can do for his/her child is to make sure however they look they have confidence in themselves and dont become unhealthily obsessed like those around them! you end up with a healthy happy child! to me thats much more important than having a child that wants to wear designer clothes, wear make up, starve herself or have plastic surgery because of the crazy world around her! You have a daughter, will you prefer she spends her time obsessing over her image (and never being satisfied with it) or being happy and enjoying her youth?

Sagamite:

Yes, obese are more likely to struggle with relationship in the prevalent society we have irrespective of self-esteem. Don't say they only struggle because of self-esteem. They struggle because of obesity, self-esteem might exacerbate it.

Sagamite:

Many obese people only get married after they severely compromise on their own desires, most likely, more than they would have had to if they were not obese.

Sagamite:

Obese women are more likely to default in areas of conventional beauty than non-obese women and MAJORITY of men choose women this way (conventional beauty) so their pool will be far smaller. Please lets not pretend being obese is not a problem.

Sagamite:

She is missing out as she is very likely to want to be desirable and not achieving it can lead to unhappiness. FACT!

Sagamite:

I am not talking of dating numerous men, I am talking of having options of numerous men to select from or finding it easy to attract the ones she is attracted to. If she is obese, that abilit is HEAVILY diminished.

Sagamite:

I am not talking of dating numerous men, I am talking of having options of numerous men to select from or finding it easy to attract the ones she is attracted to. If she is obese, that ability is HEAVILY diminished and severe compromise and submission are likely to become the requirement before the can fulfil the innate desire of most women: EXCLUSIVE COMPANIONSHIP.

Sagamite:

What do you mean by her probability is no higher than any other girl her age? In attraction or low self-esteem?

Sagamite:

You think a woman like Gabourey Sidibe or even Monique is more confident/happier than a girl like Keri Hilson (not overlooking Keri's own insecurities)?

Sagamite:

Whether it is unhealthy or not is inconsequential. It is there and has an impact on people's lives.

Sagamite:

How much confidence is she likely to retain if when she goes to parties with her friends, all the boys want to chat or dance with her friends but don't want to be seen with her in "that way" because they have a rep to keep?

Sagamite:

What much of self-esteem can she retain when she cannot dress as nicely and sexily as she desires because fashion designers do not cater for her body shape?

cap28:

I dont dispute that, but unfortunately we are living in their world and unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private one to one tuition, children have to interact with other children, i personally would prefer a world in which everyone could be accepted and treated well based on their individuality and the  content of their character and not the way they look but unfortunately this is not the world we live in, appearance is everything and there is no denying this.

Since i am forced to live in a society in which conformity is the only way to have a peaceful life (at least up until the age of 18) i will want my daughter to conform to that model until she is of an age when she has more control over her life. 

cap28:

I hear what you are saying and im not advocating anythign crazy like plastic surgery for under 18s (which some mothers encourage) all im saying is that kids should be able to feel confident about the way they look and i honestly beleive that if a kid is obese that level of confidence is drastically reduced, i will therefore do whatever it takes to ensure that my kid does not end up  being the fat kid that every body bullies or/and avoids, everyone wants their kids to do well, and doing well includes being able to fit in physically and mentally, it doesnt mean that you are jumping onto the conformist bandwagon it simply means that you are trying to give your kids the best chance in life as life is already hard enough without being burdened with the added problem of being overweight.

queensmith:

wow,
Maybe its an african thing, conformity is mental slavery. there is nothing great about it. As much as western world has an obsession on appearance. Africans are much more judgemental, and much more obsessed.
Do you really believe your daughter will turn 18 click her fingers and develop a more realistic state of mind? NO! you teach your child to become a slave to society, search for attention and only ever be satisfied with herself if others approve of her, youve brought up a girl with low self esteem confidence issues and that will follow her forever!Your confidence doesnt have to be determined by how you look, its determined by how you feel! If you raise your child properly she will feel good about herself and maintain confidence no matter what comes around. Definitely I believe every parent should make sure their kids do not become obese but you dont do that by making them self conscious, you do that by encouraging a good diet and exercise. I agree it can be an added burden,but i dont think 'never finding a man' or 'never being truly happy' is one of them!

No Queen, im raising my daughter to love herself BUT i am also raising her to have awareness of the world that she lives in, i teach her to be proud of her african heritage and african features and i also teach her not to feel that she is less than the european ideal of beauty but that doesent mean that by the same token i will sit by and allow her to over eat or not care about her physical appearance.

queensmith:

No, an obese woman will struggle if she lets it, if she meets someone. Self esteem is a BIG factor when it comes to women and relationships! To the extent that even the skinniest most beautiful women have problems getting guys and keeping them. Dont come and act like being obese is the worst thing ever, it doesnt even top 10!

queensmith:

Are you joking? you mean as opposed to ideal weighted women who dont? Or men dont?
Your making me laugh over here!

queensmith:

Defaulting in conventional beauty is not a problem, nobody is conventionally beautiful, being conventionally beautiful guarantees NOTHING and it certainly doesnt guarantee youll meet a decent man and be happy. Its not the quantity of men you meet its the quality. Check it, only a child gets excited having a list of men chase them, you get older it gets boring! lets not pretend its the worst thing in the world, I know obese girls and guys alike that have no problem!

queensmith:

its all about you!What makes you think she doesnt think shes desirable? Shes obese and shes still very beautiful! Im sure she knows that! Again anybody with an unhealthy obsession with appearance will be unhappy! Being obese does not equal having an unhealthy obsession In that case people will just be committing suicide up and down, and all women in psych wards will be obese. This isnt the case so your wrong again!

queensmith:

Again, its not about the quantity of men that chase you, its the quality. Having to select so precariously shows the low quality of the potential suitors. Being obese, your most likely to attract someone that is interested in you and build more meaningful friendships. Rather than the shallow muthafckers that chase pretty girls everywhere!

queensmith:

I should know!ive addressed this already, again skinny women compromise beautiful women date ugly men, fat men date skinny women, beyonce married jayz! Truth is the brightest light attracts the BIGGEST BUGS!

queensmith:

Its in response to your claim to her probably of becoming very unhappy (again I laugh) seriously, there are many routes to happiness. Maybe in Nigeria you can spin that to women but not over here!

queensmith:

you claim the innate desire of a woman is to have exclusive companionship and then you name 2 women in long term relationships in comparison to an openly single and very Hot woman?
and I suppose you gathered because keri is skinny shes happy?
You obviously dont know her at all, her lyrics, her music, her videos reflects a very unhappy woman with a void. Her latest video shows her obvious yearn for attention an in the last interview I heard her quote; 'sometimes I just want to be fcked' Does that sound like a happy woman to you?

queensmith:

Gabourey sidibe and monique are some of the most succesful black women around! if that doesnt make them happy I dont know what will!
Gabourey has a very goodlooking boyfriend and monique has been married for 4 years going now! Monique is probably the most confident black woman about!!!! and even she has a questionable past!
please quit the comparisons and claims that you know what makes a woman happy, conventional beauty is no long term deal maker in any persons life. the females of the playboy mansion are obviously more disturbed than your average overweight office worker Its only weak women that allow views such as yours to poison thier minds that have problems!

queensmith:

we can say the same about practically every single problem society has! we can say that about being black? we can say that about growing up in hackney and we can say the same thing about going to a shitty school.

SOCIETIES EXPECTATIONS ARE UNREALISTIC AND UNHEALTHY,
DOES IT AFFECT US? YES. DOES IT HAVE TO? NO. CAN WE AVOID IT? YES
this is the difference between raising a child with the right values in his/her mind a raising an absolute jughead wasting all their time in becoming socially accepted.
The fact its unhealthy is VERY important! its important to KNOW IT, EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT IT AND AVOID IT!

queensmith:

Again this doesnt apply solely to an obese person, a skinny girl with pretty big breasted long legged figure 8ted friends will have the EXACT same problem.

queensmith:

Dont try and make this an exclusive issue because its not! The fact that she 'knows' she beautiful now shes obese shows shows she cant be affected with such triviality.

queensmith:

Again having men with 'reps to keep' is nothing to be missed! good riddance!

queensmith:

lol you are funny! she will retain her self esteem, she can handle being obese. not being able to shop at topshop will be nothing!

everything else you mentioned is common wabble- problems of your average teenager. Go and pick up some rachel robinson books if you want to know how they are dealt with!

Sagamite:

AN OBESE WOMAN WILL STRUGGLE IN MEETING SOMEONE! Stop consoling yourself. An obese woman on average will have FAR MORE problems getting guys and keeping them. They on average will have LOWER self esteem.

Sagamite:

What kind of strawman argument are you using on me? Where did I say obesity is the worst thing ever? You want to show me the lines in my argument?

Sagamite:

Do you understand the phrase "more than they would have"? So how did you come to the conclusion I said others don't compromise?

Sagamite:

Jesus, stop this. Defaulting on conventional beauty is not a problem? Especially amongst females?  So Gabourey Sidibe and Monique are perfectly happy and can pull as much men as Keri Hilson or Rihanna?

Sagamite:

All things being equal so who is more likely to attract more quality men, Monique or Toni Braxton?

Sagamite:

Huh! 

I am wrong again? 

Where did you see me saying being obese equals having an unhealthy obsession before you decided to score me as "wrong"?  Strawman arguments?

Sagamite:

Ayo might have a nice personality but she definitely is not physically beautiful, talkless of very beautiful. As someone said, she looks 24 when she is actually 15. Most girls like that are not desirable and most know it except they want to live in a deluded world. If they can read and write, more often than not, the female magazines women love to read will let them know they are not desirable. If those do not do it, then when they go out with friends and they are the ones hardly asked on a date or danced with by the desirable boys, or any boys at all, whilst their slim friends have many, will do it. When they sit with boys in a social group and ask them which celebrity they find desirable and none of the boys mention any with her body shape and size will most likely put a nail on the coffin.

Sagamite:

There might be many routes to happiness but meaningful relationships is one of the fundamental cores of happiness amongst most women. Far more than it is for men.
There is a reason millions of women each year try and lose weight to be slim. I will struggle to see many trying to put on weight to be obese. Stop the self-delusion.

MandingoII:

Translation = Ugly Daughter.

MandingoII:

They are ALL Ugly.
Londoner's are going to get a kick out of this.

queensmith:

Your sounding like a broken record, let me simplify this for you- If that was the case, obese women will never marry!

queensmith:

If you dont understand english say so, where did i write that? go back and read the sentence again.

queensmith:

No with this I disagree and unless you have solid proof and realistic examples that will be the end of that. Its simply something you think because you believe you are the all knower all see-er of everything women!  Pulling assumptions out of your arse! Ive seen healthy beautiful women compromise, nowadays almost every woman compromises, men compromise even more.

queensmith:

and this is where i realise im having an argument with a bloody idi/ot!
omg sagamite ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS?
let me give you a very simple explanation;
magazines sell illusions, unattainable standards of beauty, and unhealthy lifestyles. Airbrush cover models and present impossible situations- NO WOMAN IS CONVENTIONALLY BEAUTIFUL!!
RIHANNA IS A BRAND!!!! SO IS BEYONCE AND SO IS BRITTANY SPEARS, packaged and presented that way because they know people will buy it. NOT LOOKING LIKE RIHANNA, OR LOOKING LIKE BRITTANY SPEARS IS NOT A PROBLEM UNLESS YOUR A FCKIN PSYCHO! Thats the whole reason why im even her arguing with you! ITS UNHEALTHY TO TEACH YOUR CHILD TO BE SELF CONSCIOUS! A SANE WOMAN WILL KNOW THAT NOT LOOKING LIKE THE WOMEN ON THE MAGAZINES IS NOT A PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!
YOU WONT BE BRITAINS NEXT TOP MODEL, AND YOU WONT DIE BECAUSE OF IT!!!
Go and watch the hip/hop honeyz documentary for more in depth understanding of psychos.
Again they both have healthy relationships as opposed to keri and rihanna who do not! 'pulling many men' is not an achievement, it has no benefit. And is definitely not a legitimate reason to make your daughter self conscious!

queensmith:

You must be right, Ive seen the many quality men toni braxton has attracted! who wouldnt want to be like her! (eurgh wheres the eye rolling emiticon when you need it)

queensmith:

You need to go back and read what you've wrote; you assumed an she is unhappy because shes obese.

queensmith:

Maybe you and I didnt watch the same programme!Ive addressed the magazines already, same goes for the media, for television and so on and so forth, Shes obese! not not-so-smart! You not desiring her doesnt mean shes undesirable. Magazines not desiring her doesnt mean she cant be happy! THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF WHAT IM SAYING! its delusional to assume one will be desired, chased about or deemed conventionally beautiful once shes skinny, it will be delusional for any obese woman to believe her life problems will be solved if she lost weight. thats the first thing your told once you begin to lose weight. Assuming,' if i was skinny all the men would want me' is a delusion.
your actually beggining to make me laugh with all the assumptions your pulling out of your arse- I went to school here I can tell you obese children date! go to proms, are popular, get boys, get chased the list goes oooooooooon! Assuming you have all mighty knowledge on playground life once again. The obese children that have problems are those that have confidence issues, low self esteem and problems dealing with people. Factors that wont change even when they lose weight! Their parents probably sold them the crap your trying to sell me here, inadvertently scarring them for life.

All your other points are irrelevant,  again just full of crap. If you think only obese people have the problems youve addressed, I suggest you go out more. If you are lamenting for the simple sake of argument. . . good on ya!

queensmith:

Again stop thinking you know everything about women, you really dont. By the sound of it, its seems to be affecting you more!
There is also a reason millions of women are having plastic surgery, sniffing coke and millions of men are taking steroids. If it really was the path to happiness I think the whole world will have indulged in these things!
Did i tell you people intetionally try to become obese? try again!

Teaching your child self confidence is the only way to guarantee she will be happy! Making sure in spite of all things surrounding her shes happy and mentally stable. To me nothing is more important than that! Any parent that does that is an absolute winner! Your child is more likely to have healthy relationships have a stable trusting partner and less likely to be abused, indulge in substance abuse, develop psycological problems and is more likely to excel in any area. That, to me is much more important than raising a child obsessive over her image, or a child that consults magazines to check what shes worth. She will most likely be in a shallow relationship with a shallow man who will abuse her physically and psycologically and have an impaled ability to build solid meaningful relationships with individuals that have depth. She wont do well at work, wont be happy and wont have a good life. Does that sound like the ideal daughter to you? Cos if you sell her that trash theres no way out of it! If you dont believe me, check the average nigerian girl back home, shallow airheaded whores!!!!


are we name dropping fat celebrities now? or celebrities with long lasting meaningful relationships? How many millionaires have long lasting relationships with their playboy whores? Those that do are the ones married to orobos and the unconventionally beautiful! goes to show being obsessive will lead you nowhere!

Are you trying to say monique made that decisions because she's obese? Then what will you say of jada pinkett smith? STALE! your just talking your not actually thinking!

By your logic, every slim and attractive woman has all the options, all the solutions and all the pleasures. THAT is delusional!!!!!! Because in reality. . . . .THEY DONT! they have ALLL the problems that EVERY OTHER WOMAN HAS TO DEAL WITH!

halle berry, keri hilson, rihanna, brandy, monica, christina milian, kelly rowland, amber rose, ciara, brittany spears, eva longoria, miley cyrus,

Its soo obvious they have bottomless pools of 'desireble men' to chose from!

PhysicsMHD:

^^^^^

Not to side with anybody, but if you dig through Mandingo's posts, you'll find he rails against white people pretty hard, so you guys might have more in common than you think.

queensmith:

lmao!tbh when i first watched the show i thought THE EXACT same thing!!! But it was lost when I watched it! Im in love with the family they are sweet, humble and loving! there arent many families like that anymore!

cap28:

No Queen, im raising my daughter to love herself BUT i am also raising her to have awareness of the world that she lives in, i teach her to be proud of her african heritage and african features and i also teach her not to feel that she is less than the european ideal of beauty but that doesent mean that by the same token i will sit by and allow her to over eat or not care about her physical appearance. 

cap28 link=topic=551893.msg7519835#msg7519835 date=1294882075 
Queeen you are not being realistic - we are social beings we do not exist in a vacuum, in order to survive we have to interact with other people and as i said unless you are fabulously rich and able to afford private tuition you can't really control every aspect of your child's social interaction.  A young girl who is overweight is not going to feel confiden in the company of her friends who are slim, attractive and trendy she is constantly going to feel as if she is less than everyone else no matter how much you tell her you love her and how great she is,  parental love is important but she will still  need to feel a sense of belonging when she is around her friends and if she is overweight or obese her self confidence will go downhill no matter how much love you give her at home.
[/quote]
In reality, your the one thats being unrealistic. Confidence doesnt come with being skinny. Its something that a child gets from home. No matter what he/she comes in to contact with outside as long as she has inner security, emotional stability, and regards herself in high esteem, no magazine, boy or bully can take it down!
Going to private school or having private tuition has nothing to do with it, parents are meant to protect thier children! children act on what they have learnt from home, a child that bullies another for being fat has learnt to do so from home, a child with low confidence because of her weight has been given body image problems from his/her parents.
A child is not born with any sort of idea of his/her body, only parents are to blame for children having low confidence. It doesnt matter if you are the fattest ugliest person in the world, with the right mind you survive anywhere. Thats why there ARE fat kids that are popular, have plenty friends plenty girlfriends/boyfriends play sports and so on and so on.
[quote author=cap28:

For me the issue is not about her finding a man or finding a man to date but rather the ability to feel attractive and confident  - in my opinion if she is overweight or obese it will be difficult for her to feel any of those things.

cap28:

Okay Queen - let me get this right, when you watched the family - you came to the same conclusion as mandingo that "ALL OF THEM ARE UGLY" but you changed your opinion when you watched the show and got to know more about the individual family members and then fell in love with them for being "sweet, humble and loving" - correct me if im wrong but doesnt this conflict with the argument you have been having on here with Sagamite in which you state that obesity should not be used as a yardstick in determining a person's self worth? If we are to accept your view that obesity is not important and should not determine a person's self worth why even notice that a person is ugly, surely if you are willing to down play obesity - you should equally be willing to downplay ugliness - no?

queensmith:

Dont get me wrong, im not saying its good to encourage a child to become overweight, of course you teach a child to take care of his/herself. Teach them to brush thier teeth take a bath comb thier hair, play sports eat healthy etc etc. Its very important, but what is WRONG to teach a child is to be self concious over their appearance or to make them think societies expectations are healthy.

In reality, your the one thats being unrealistic. Confidence doesnt come with being skinny. Its something that a child gets from home. No matter what he/she comes in to contact with outside as long as she has inner security, emotional stability, and regards herself in high esteem, no magazine, boy or bully can take it down!
Going to private school or having private tuition has nothing to do with it, parents are meant to protect thier children! children act on what they have learnt from home, a child that bullies another for being fat has learnt to do so from home, a child with low confidence because of her weight has been given body image problems from his/her parents.

A child is not born with any sort of idea of his/her body, only parents are to blame for children having low confidence. It doesnt matter if you are the fattest ugliest person in the world, with the right mind you survive anywhere. Thats why there ARE fat kids that are popular, have plenty friends plenty girlfriends/boyfriends play sports and so on and so on. yes, but she will never feel attractive or confident if she has been trained to conform to societies expectations. in that case, an overweight child with shallow parents has no chance!

Basildon1:

@ Sagamite, Kudos to you but i think you are going in too hard on her. LOL. Let's take it down a notch.

Moreover, dont think she's going to come around. For her, slim and fat chicks stand the same chance. SMFH!!

cap28:

Parents are meant to protect their childdren - but i would argue part of that protection is ensuring that they are able to thrive in an environment with other kids, if that means a certain level of physical conformity ie weight control then i am more than willing to go along with that as i would want my child to be happy and not be an outsider or loner, is it too much to ask that kids should look nice and be able to feel confident when they are around their friends?

If i were to accept your argument that we should not be so quick to conform what sort of life would that mean for my kids? what would i do  when they were by themselves? how would i be able to help them in a situation where they were faced with a classroom full of sneering kids  making nasty jokes about their weight? Would i have to employ a chaperone to follow them all over school in order to protect them from classroom bullies?

[s]Ahh mandingo NL's resident self hating house negro.

Mandingo can you answer this very simple question - why are you ashamed of your african ancestry?

The reason i ask this is that your posts are full of anger, venom and hatred towards africa and its people - why do you hate yourself so much, do you despise your parents for having black african ancestry?

Do you wish you were born with european facial features? do you beleive that your life would have been so much easier if you were more european in appearance?

Are you one of many african american men who detest and despise dark skinned black women because they remind them of themselves?

I know that your ideal of "black" beauty is light skin, light eyes and european facial features hence your utter contempt for african people.

You describe the family on this series as ugly - would you have described the Osbournes as ugly as well or would you have been full of praise for them?

Mandingo do you seek out white women for relationships/procreation in order to avoid ever having children who look african in appearance ?

Let me break it down for you my man - you are a lost cause - white amerikkka has destroyed your self worth, and in a way i can sympathise with you - you turn on the tv and the epitome of beauty is the skinny, blonde, big breasted bimbo - that becomes your template - this is why many african american "celebrities" emulate this look from Mary J blige (with her blonde wig) to Vivica A Fox with her reconstructed nose, big bosoms, bleached skin, fake hair and plastic bosoms - the white man has taught you how to hate yourself and you are now so caught up in hating yourself that it feels perfectly normal. If thats how you want to live your life fine, but there are some of us who refuse to accept the european ideal of beauty and who are proud of our african features - i know to you african features = ugly but i cant blame you this is what you have been conditioned to believe is the truth and there is nothign i can do to change your mindset.

I can only imagine the inner turmoil your mind must be in, my advice to you is do not have children with a black woman because you will scar them mentally for life, focus all your energy on finding a white woman who will help you dilute your african genes and help you to reach the promised land of white physical appearance which i know is your ultimate goal in life[/s].

Sagamite:

Because I said obese women will struggle in finding partners, you came to the conclusion that then they will never marry?

Sagamite:



Maybe you wrote this in Igala, if it does not mean what it means in English:

Sagamite:

Yes, alot of people compromise but obese people on average will have to compromise more and harder than slim people because there are fewer people that find them attractive. They have less choice to be choosy. And when they do get one, they are more likely to be more lenient with the guy so as not to lose him.

Sagamite:

Because I said obese women will struggle in finding partners, you came to the conclusion that then they will never marry?

Please don't come to any other conclusions again please.

Maybe you wrote this in Igala, if it does not mean what it means in English:

[font=Sanscript][/font]
If you can not get it in your thick head that the more attractive one is, the more likely they are to be able to attract or select a partner of their choice, I feel sorry for your intellect.

Sagamite:

Obese people are seen as less attractive, very few Orobos are lucky to still be hot.

Sagamite:

Any behavioural positive you list is better accompanied with ideal weight than obesity.

cap28:

Queen - just to add - i dont know if you've watched the film "Precious" with Gabourey Sidibe and Monique, notice how the mother "Monique" uses food as an instrument of abuse to ensure that her daughter remains overweight and therefore unattractive.  The mother does this as revenge for what she perceives as her daughter's betrayal of her by engaging in a non consensual incestuous relationship with her late husband.   I really  really hated this film as i felt that it feeds into all the worst stereo typical images of african americans and in particular of the african american woman as irresponsible welfare queen.  In as much as the film glosses over the root causes of dysfunction in the african american community it does highlight the issue of over eating and obesity.

Sagamite:

Ileke-Idi, there are some snippets of the show on you now.

It was put up by the TV station itself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYU3pLWhtxw

There are multiple snippets on the right (Suggetion area).

oyinda.:

from "the family" to Gabourey Sidibe.  how did that happen

sagamite, you need to upload the full episodes jor