PhysicsMHD said:

All of these Ivan Van Sertima/J.A. Rogers/David MacRitchie propagandists need to sit down, shut up, pick up real history books on Europe and acquaint themselves with reality and then see how these "sources" for their claims stack up against mountains of documented history to the contrary. Next I'll hear about how the Nubians conquered Spain in 300 AD and how all vikings and all Picts were originally black. Next the claims about "Black Douglas" of Scotland. Then more crap about black Moors running Spain. All of these "Black Africans ruling Europe" claims are  old invalid conjectures that have been laughed out of academia for a reason. I place it with the Black Athena and Black Chinese claims.

Aaah. . .  all those old European flags, statues, and statuettes we've seen of black potentates - male and female - adorned with crowns and other royal paraphernalia were actually images manufactured in Van Sertima's bedroom, or otherwise dreamt up by black 'propagandists', correct?

The funny thing is that your insolent dismissal of the clear evidence shown here indicates your brazen willingness to embrace old invalid conjectures which EXCLUDE these highly important and influential black Africans from the history of Europe, for reasons best known to you.

Perhaps the ''laughter'' of your overlords in the western academia was one of nervousness at detection?

sage:

@buzu

Are you suggesting we all become shallow thinkers

Who would do all the deep thinking and revel the facts?

The world needs more deep thinkers not vice-versa

i am not suggesting. i am coercing you to become a shallow thinker if you want to survive in the west that affirmative action just may get you that ceo job as the managing director of goldman sachs

tpia1:

bros, that's not evolution.

you're confusing his features with the waspish uncle sam look.

if i'm reading you correctly.

dats evolution fasho. he is evolving and morphing under the tutelage and auspices of south african hot weather

tpia1:

the thread has actually gotten very confusing.


nah. Every race has melanin but some have it more than others.




and @ sage

you're not accounting for the phoenicians.

why are you splitting hairs

ROSSIKE:

PhysicsMHD said:

Aaah. . .  all those old European flags, statues, and statuettes we've seen of black potentates - male and female - adorned with crowns and other royal paraphernalia were actually images manufactured in Van Sertima's bedroom, or otherwise dreamt up by black 'propagandists', correct?

The funny thing is that your insolent dismissal of the clear evidence shown here indicates your brazen willingness to embrace old invalid conjectures which EXCLUDE these highly important and influential black Africans from the history of Europe, for reasons best known to you.

Perhaps the ''laughter'' of your overlords in the western academia was one of nervousness at detection?

All of this Van Sertima stuff is such a clear evidence of an inferiority complex and I want to point out some things.


Why is it that the overwhelming majority of these "scholars" are so obsessed with proving black origins of cultures they acknowledge as "civilizations" :


a) Egypt

b) Spain.

Black Spanish nobility? So what? What Spanish civilization was there, really? Prior to acquiring Roman culture Spain were Goths + Celts with no art no architecture, no anything and their medieval kingdoms were less than those than multiple Africans' kingdoms before they got guns, knowledge of the compass, writing, etc. from foreign sources. Claiming the Moors of Moorish Spain is not much better. The actual Moors were "civilized" only through external sources. The Spanish Golden Age started around the early 1500s and it's achievers were clearly white so what's the point of claiming that their earliest kings were black?


c) Vikings (the freaking Vikings? as a "civilization" higher than that of Africans? Because of a few big canoes used for massive ra-pe and looting expeditions? One look at dignitaries in Nok statues (http://memoiredafrique.com/en/nok/galerie-amis.php) and comparison with Viking "civilization" shows which group was more refined and removed from "barbarism". Imagine, Blacks can already claim Nok, Axum, Nubia, and more yet here they are trying to claim infamous canoe ravagers  )


d) Celts of the British Isles (Picts, Welsh, Scottish, original (non-Germanic, non-Viking) English etc,) who also did nothing really significant prior to the Scientific revolution and Renaissance (except for one assortment of large stones, probably moved into position with hundreds of people for some ritual), two events which were done by people who were clearly white, and which came about through knowledge from foreign sources. They did nothing in their earlier times for anyone to be trying to claim that their earliest kings or later medieval royalty were actually descendants of the as yet unsubstantiated black seafaring kingdom or unproven black Phoenicians.)

e) Olmecs,

f) Minoan Crete,

g) Colchians (what did the black Cochians do that anyone ones to claim them? Get left behind by some Egyptian general and sit around while the the white Colchian state developed?)

h) Phoenicians

i) ancient Vietnamese, ancient Cambodians,

j) ancient Chinese,

k) ancient Indians

and more, but are  curiously absent on making even the slightest detailed study of known sub-Saharan African civilizations?

Rather they rely on the same mostly Western academia that they claim is holding back the truth on the black origins of groups A through K above for information on most of the actual sub-Saharan kingdoms and city-states and selectively pick and choose what they consider worthy of their scholarly "corrections" to history. 

Don't you see the blatant contradiction in relying on the same Western academia for information on certain historical areas (Nubia, Axum, Ife, etc.) but alleging a massive cover-up on almost all other historical areas?

Past a certain point (beyond claiming parts of Egypt) you have to see the irrationality of the kind of allegations and claims being thrown around.

You sound like some of the people on this site:

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/#855

You're all recycling the same vague ancient references with no really strong arguments or definitive proofs of any of these claims.

I remember this thread very well. One of my finest moments on Nairaland.

But I am still wondering why PhysicsMHD is trying to resurrected this thread. Maybe he wants another fiery debate?

PhysicsMHD I'm afraid you're talking a lot of tripe. The black Moors rescued Europe from the Dark Ages. They brought CIVILIZATION to much of Europe (some say MOST of Europe) by their greater schooling and mastery of the sciences. That's just a fact of history. I've no idea where you're coming from talking about Spain as if everyone does not know that the Moors were responsible for the civilization of Spain. You talk as if the whites spontaneously developed in the 1500s out of nothing. But development does not occur in a vaccum. It was the Moorish civilization of the region from the 700s through to the 1500s when they were defeated, that led DIRECTLY to the European Renaissance.

And you really have no reason to attack scholars who research and publish their findings with regard to the African origin of Chinese civilization, of Indian, Mexican and Meso-American civilizations etc.

The argument that such scholars do not research the histories of African kingdoms within Africa is baseless. Some do, some don't. The late Dr Chancellor Williams for instance, was a reputable African American historian who spent 16 years of his life in Africa, visited up to 40 countries on the continent,  researching ancient kingdoms and states which most of us have never heard about.

His book, The Destruction of African Civilization has been described as the black man's bible, so thorough is it in its investigation of the African story starting from 4,500 BC!

http://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Black-Civilization-Issues-D/dp/0883780305/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295739470&sr=1-1

So please try to read more widely before coming here to attack scholars and people who wish to learn about their  history.

What a fantastic thread.

.

Jen33:

PhysicsMHD I'm afraid you're talking a lot of tripe. The black Moors rescued Europe from the Dark Ages.
They brought CIVILIZATION to much of Europe (some say MOST of Europe) by their greater schooling and mastery of the sciences. That's just a fact of history. I've no idea where you're coming from talking about Spain as if everyone does not know that the Moors were responsible for the civilization of Spain. You talk as if the whites spontaneously developed in the 1500s out of nothing. But development does not occur in a vaccum. It was the Moorish civilization of the region from the 700s through to the 1500s when they were defeated, that led DIRECTLY to the European Renaissance

Only some of the moors were black, and for the record, the Moors/North Africans got their civilization from the Middle East (the Caliphate + the Persians). Even though the first university was in North Africa, the first houses of learning, and the Islamic scholarly tradition was long before that.

The Islamic Golden Age + Crusades leading to interaction with the Islamic world did lead to the European renaissance, but attributing it all to some Moors in Spain is just fanciful. Al-Andalus was a major component, but not the origin. As I said earlier, the Moors themselves were "civilized" by earlier Muslims from the Middle East.

And you really have no reason to attack scholars who research and publish their findings with regard to the African origin of Chinese civilization, of Indian, Mexican and Meso-American civilizations etc.

Their claims, apart from being born out of an inferiority complex, are unprovable and suffer from a poverty of evidence.

The argument that such scholars do not research the histories of African kingdoms within Africa is baseless. Some do, some don't. The late Dr Chancellor Williams for instance, was a reputable African American historian who spent 16 years of his life in Africa, visited up to 40 countries on the continent,  researching ancient kingdoms and states which most of us have never heard about.

His book, The Destruction of African Civilization has been described as the black man's bible, so thorough is it in its investigation of the African story starting from 4,500 BC!

http://www.amazon.com/Destruction-Black-Civilization-Issues-D/dp/0883780305/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295739470&sr=1-1

So please try to read more widely before coming here to attack scholars and people who wish to learn about their  history.

Actually, what I said is that the overwhelming majority don't make detailed studies of sub-saharan African kingdoms, which they don't. Instead they rely on Western Academia for information on them. Prove me wrong. I would be interested in finding out how many Afrocentric scholars are also legitimate Africanist historians, because I have not come across many.

Interesting!

PhysicsMHD:


Only some of the moors were black, and for the record, the Moors/North Africans got their civilization from the Middle East (the Caliphate + the Persians). Even though the first university was in North Africa, the first houses of learning, and the Islamic scholarly tradition was long before that.

The Islamic Golden Age + Crusades leading to interaction with the Islamic world did lead to the European renaissance, but attributing it all to some Moors in Spain is just fanciful. Al-Andalus was a major component, but not the origin. As I said earlier, the Moors themselves were "civilized" by earlier Muslims from the Middle East.






Their claims, apart from being born out of an inferiority complex, are unprovable and suffer from a poverty of evidence.




Actually, what I said is that the overwhelming majority don't make detailed studies of sub-saharan African kingdoms, which they don't. Instead they rely on Western Academia for information on them. Prove me wrong. I would be interested in finding out how many Afrocentric scholars are also legitimate Africanist historians, because I have not come across many.

You type so much garbage. Don't even know where to start.