justise:

I watched Oputa panel like mad

I read every Tell magazine, and Guardian, of that era. I know what I am talking about.

Yes, Abiola engaged in ANTI-STATE activities, so did Kudirat, So did the lucky Alex Ibru.

It is not my job to decide what is anti state vs what is not, That is the job of the CSO and the security whatever in charge of keeping the country safe, Diya and Adisa were planning a coup for real, against the president of the country. I can go on and on.

The SW mostly was anti the government, and we were proud of that. The government felt threatened and they did what any military government of that era would do. BTW, for records, Abiola was not killed by Al Mustapha; Kudirat? Maybe.

Again, I repeat, it has been great injustice for him to have been held in Kirikiri for 11 years for absolutely no good reason. He ought to sue the government for damages. Because he is a nice guy, i doubt he would sue Nigeria.

This is always one thing i dislike about forums even children that did not witness a particular event would come out with defenseless opinions.This one here read  tell magazine and he kept on insisting that Abiola was involved in anti-state activities so the cso had the right to murder his wife.did late yardua also order his cso to smuggle him to saudi arabia ?
what exactly was kudirat's offence if i may ask ? Can you define what you meant by anti-state activities since military dictatorship is not anti-state to you in the first instance ? Abeg no let me vex !

Attention Mods: Change Topic Subject - Reason: Deceptive

Al Mustapha is Cleared, not Released or Freed.

news source here: http://labarai.com/archives/66

Then I cry for this nation, this is a very sad development.

Kilode?!:

So since we are arguing based on the assumption that he actually killed Nigerian citizens based on Abacha's orders
The difference?
Iraqis soldiers are foreigners not American citizens.
Kudirat Abiola and Alfred Rewane were Nigerian citizens. Come back with another comparison/analogy.
A soldiers ultimate duty is defending Nigeria against external aggression.
Covert or overt killing of Nigerian citizens without trial, without due process. (even the military has due process) wether based on the orders of a Military commander or not should be punishable by Death!
*we are arguing based on the assumption that he actually killed those people*

Who says that?
In Nigeria's case, the police were obviously incompetent at securing internal peace, hence the need for the ALMIGHTY 'soja'

During the civil rights era of the 60s in the US, who did the president send to Alabama and Mississippi to maintain peace?

Again i repeat, the CSO' job was to keep the president safe against all enemies, both external and internal
And he had the right to obey all orders from the president, irrespective of how you perceive them. The orders might be illegal to you, they were perfectly legal to him and his life depended on them.

Remember that military mantra: Obey first, complain later.

HOLD ABACHA RESPONSIBLE, LEAVE AL MUSTAPHA OUT OF THIS.

Hmmm! Just short of words. If we should look @ it critically from the order hand. The order was from his boss and he MUST not decline. Don't forget that's what Military is all about.

~Bluetooth:

This is always one thing i dislike about forums even children that did not witness a particular event would come out with defenseless opinions.This one here read  tell magazine and he kept on insisting that Abiola was involved in anti-state activities so the cso had the right to murder his wife.did late yardua also order his cso to smuggle him to saudi arabia ?
what exactly was kudirat's offence if i may ask ? Can you define what you meant by anti-state activities since military dictatorship is not anti-state to you in the first instance ? Abeg no let me vex !

How can Military rule be anti state?
Who better to rule the country, if not the Military

If you are willing to die for the country, isnt it fair that you are allowed to rule as well.

I have nothing against civilian rule, but dont tell me that military rule is bad because clearly, the best times we have had as country were during the military era. The Babangida years were better than the last 11 years of civilian rule, however, you want to look at it.

Well, go back and watch Oputa panel and see what went on behind the scene
The CSO, using all information at his disposal concluded that they were engaged in anti state activities, hence, their unfortunate death.

Kudirat in her aggressive attempt to subvert justice in my opinion, and that of Al Mustapha's, engaged in anti state activities.

justise:

I watched Opt panel like mad

I read every Tell magazine, and Guardian, of that era. I know what I am talking about.

Yes, Ebola engaged in ANTI-STATE activities, so did Drat, So did the lucky Alex Boru.

It is not my job to decide what is anti state vs what is not, That is the job of the COS and the security whatever in charge of keeping the country safe, Di ya and AIDS were planning a coup for real, against the president of the country. I can go on and on.

The SW mostly was anti the government, and we were proud of that. The government felt threatened and they did what any military government of that era would do. BTW, for records, Ebola was not killed by Al Mustap ha; Drat? Maybe.

Again, I repeat, it has been great injustice for him to have been held in Kirikiri for 11 years for absolutely no good reason. He ought to sue the government for damages. Because he is a nice guy, i doubt he would sue Nigeria.

Wrong, Wrong!

I read those papers too and watched the panel broadcasts! I arrived at a totally different conclusion, but I will humor you.

Let us agree that they carried out "anti-state activities";

Yes, Abiola engaged in ANTI-STATE activities, so did Kudirat, So did the lucky Alex Boru.

It is not my job to decide what is anti state vs what is not, That is the job of the COS and the security whatever in charge of keeping the country safe, Di ya and AIDS were planning a coup for real, against the president of the country. I can go on and on.

Did Abacha try Kudirat, Alfred Rewane and co ?

where they tried and convicted of crimes like they did Diya and co?

So what is the justification for their killings? based on what law? which trial? which convictions? those were Nigerian citizens killed by Al-Mustapha (based on your admission) without the luxury of the court trials he's enjoying right now.

We will have to agree that Al-Mustapha goofed by carrying out an unlawful order and he should be killed!

We need to train our Military guys better or Maybe Al-Mustapha slept through his "direct orders and the law" lectures.  

Al-Mustapha should be killed!

Cleared by a competent court of law

What else do you want guys

Drop it already!

justise:

Cleared by a competent court of law

What else do you want guys

Drop it already!

For the Ibru case. Now they have to Kill him for the Kudirat case if he is found guilty. It is only fair. Right?

Lk Adeola:

Hmmm! Just short of words. If we should look @ it critically from the order hand. The order was from his boss and he MUST not decline. Don't forget that's what Military is all about.

I care less about all these military bull-sh!t.the guy was used to commit crimes during a lawless regime and now that law exists,then he should be made to account for his crimes ! That is how it works in a democracy

For the Ibru case. Now they have to Kill him for the Kudirat case if he is found guilty. It is only fair. Right?

Its not like it was murder! Was it? He was only carrying out orders.

The trial of this member of Abacha henchmen was purposely stalled so that he could eventually be released as they have done now. If all that was said about him is true, and was allowed a full court process where true justice is dispensed, he would possibly have faced a firing squad. Now he is a free man allegedly.

Lk Adeola:

Hmmm! Just short of words. If we should look @ it critically from the order hand. The order was from his boss and he MUST not decline. Don't forget that's what Military is all about.

NO! Wrong!

Read Military law before you jump to such conclusions, a soldier is obligated to obey
Lawful/constitutional direct orders. The military is not a secret cult, it is a professional organisation with rules and codes.

AL-Mustapha, if he killed those Nigerina citizens without a trial and without a justification based on Military law (I bet he can't find any) will have to be killed too. I'm so sorry but, that was the job he signed for.

justise:

Dont call me names please

Use your brain and your keyboard.

Going by your narrow minded diatribe, anything undemocratic is bad, isnt it?

In the past 11 years, what have we been able to achieve under civilian rule? You, if only you would be objestive, would admit that the best times so far were the Babangida years, better than the past 11 years combined. this is not a debate between military rule vs civilian rule, so i will not go there today.

You are reetarded!!!

You are the one telling someone else to use their brain?

You are asking what we have achieved under civilian rule?

Fooool, what we have achieved:

- We have eliminated our overburdening debt.
- We have increased GDP by 347%.
- We have reduced inflation from 38% to 5%.
- We have increased stock market activities by 578%.
- We have increased FDI 6 folds.
- We have increased GNI per capital by a multiple of 4.
- We have increased mortality of children under 5 by 2%.
- We have reduced corruption.
- We have a more free society.
- We have strongly re-engaged with international community.
- We have slowed or even reversed the brain drain.
- We have a more vibrant private sector.

justise:

As for why he did not run away? Where was he going to run to? What about his family? Becoming a CSO is not for the feeble minded. A CSO typically must have spent a significant amount of time in the military; most of this guys are already brainwashed in the goodness of military life. They believe in their military ethos wholehearted, just as how Hitler believed in the supremacy of the Germans. Military life and ways is not just something you do for the times; you cannot change ideas and mentality the way the current crop of civilians change parties. And Al Mustapha was extremely disciplined, deserting the military was not an option, he was not a coward. He was patriotic and he swore to defend the unity of Nigeria, not feeble mindedly like you. When he swore to defend Nigeria, he meant it. He wasnt a double dealer like you. And like all honorable men, deserting the military WAS NOT AN OPTION.

The Abacha government stabilized the polity remember. He took over from a bloody civilian Shonekon. At that point, Nigeria was at a cross road, and the civilians were clueless as to how to move the country forward; hence the need for military rule. He brought peace and security. I was in Lagos then, and Marwa did a great job to stem the tide of armed robbery and random killings, something no civilian, including Fashola, has been able to reciprocate.

You are a sick moooron to call a killer a honourable man for not abandoning the machinery that makes him kill. You need to be shot as your brain is a waste.

Foool, is this the first time officials are deserting with their families?

You are a CRETIN for all the other rubbish you wrote above not even considering your comparison of murder to warfare!

~Bluetooth:

I care less about all these military bull-droppings.the guy was used to commit crimes during a lawless regime and now that law exists,then he should be made to account for his crimes ! That is how it works in a democracy

Why is it so hard for you to understand

YOU DON'T APPLY A LAW RETROACTIVELY: It is not done anywhere in the world.

You dont say, oh when you committed that crime , there was no law and that now we have a law, you should go.

Since there was no law that time, there was no crime; How could there be?

Why do you think there is statue of limitation?

Sagamite:

He is reetarded, he is a fooool, a moooron and a cretin!

- He is justifying the use of the army to kill people of the state when the army is meant for use for defence of the people from external threat.

- He is comparing the killings that occur in armed warfare between armed adversaries of different states to the murder of unarmed and defenceless civilians by the army of his/her own state.

- He is justifying killing of civilians without trial.

- He is advocating and justifying the killing of civilians by any individual that seizes power without mandate and ruling against the populace choice.

An utter CRETIN he is!!! His mentality is fcked up!

LOL

Damn! The way things are going I might have to swallow my pride and agree with you that we need to segregate our people by class and "cull" some undesirables.

But, no jare! I'll still hold out hope

Kilode?!:

NO! Wrong!

[s]Read Military law before you jump to such conclusions, a soldier is obligated to obey[/s]
Lawful/constitutional direct orders. The military is not a secret cult, it is a professional organisation with rules and codes.

AL-Mustapha, if he killed those Nigerina citizens without a trial and without a justification based on Military law (I bet he can't find any) will have to be killed too. I'm so sorry but, that was the job he signed for.

The same military that gave absolute power to Abacha so he can kill anybody as he likes ? Rubbish.
My point is clear.The guy should face justice for his crimes whether he was carrying out an order is never the point here.
A former Nazi soldier was imprisoned sometimes this year for his role in the extermination of jews;a mission of his boss HITLER !

Kilode?!:

We need to train our Military guys better or Maybe Al-Mustapha slept through his "direct orders and the law" lectures.  

NO!!!

We need to do a national assessment and take reeetards and morons like this justise to the woods and help them end it.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-376162.32.html#msg6956697

I am all for "Mercy Killings"!

phreakabit:

Its not like it was murder! Was it? He was only carrying out orders.

No sir, I'm sorry, it's murder, if it's unlawful and pre-meditated.

[b]Murder:[/b]the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

If he killed them, without any law to back up his actions, he should be tried and killed too.

As a gallant obedient Nigerian soldier, Al-Mustapha should gladly accept that fact and die with his head held high. LOL

Sagamite:



You are a sick moooron to call a killer a honourable man for not abandoning the machinery that makes him kill. You need to be shot as your brain is a waste.

Foool, is this the first time officials are deserting with their families?

Y[b]ou are a CRETIN for all the other rubbish you wrote above not even considering your comparison of murder to warfare![/b]

War is a phenomenon of organized violent conflict typified by[b] extreme aggression, societal disruption and adaptation, and high mortality[/b]. There is some debate about other characteristics, but in general there is agreement that war involves at least two organized groups, is a premeditated activity at least on the part of one side, and at least one of the groups uses violence against the other

Dont tell me that the Iraqi Army was organized, were they?

For your perusal, SAGAMITE:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0622/p01s01-usmi.html

Killing is Killing no matter what the reason.When people representing a government start wars they know people are going to get killed. But just like the murderer, "they don't care" about the victim. Don't sugar coat it, call it what it is and maybe we can stop it.

Kilode?!:

LOL

Damn! The way things are going I might have to swallow my pride and agree with you that we need to segregate our people by class and "cull" some undesirables.

But, no jare! I'll still hold out hope

You will be converted one day in the name of SANGO!  

~Bluetooth:

The same military that gave absolute power to Abacha so he can kill anybody as he likes ? Rubbish.
My point is clear.The guy should face justice for his crimes whether he was carrying out an order is never the point here.
A former Nazi soldier was imprisoned sometimes this year for his role in the extermination of jews;a mission of his boss HITLER !

Actually, I was trying to quote the poster you replied to. Sorry about the error, I modified the post.

Insert Quote
Quote from: phreakabit on Today at 08:05:45 PM
Its not like it was murder! Was it? He was only carrying out orders.

No sir, I'm sorry, it's murder, if it's unlawful and pre-meditated.

Murder:the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

If he killed them, without any law to back up his actions, he should be tried and killed too.

As a gallant obedient Nigerian soldier, Al-Mustapha should gladly accept that fact and die with his head held high. LOL

Too bad you see it that way. IMO, let the living live, while the dead RIP. I think he is a honorable man, for carrying out his orders! You would have done the same, had it been you.

@ justice
I think you should consider changing you username from justice to STUPIDITY because you are plain stupid.

Sagamite:

You will be converted one day in the name of SANGO!

Hahaha, No way! I still believe the 401 Irunmoles are with me on this one!

justise:

War is a phenomenon of organized violent conflict typified by[b] extreme aggression, societal disruption and adaptation, and high mortality[/b]. There is some debate about other characteristics, but in general there is agreement that war involves at least two organized groups, is a premeditated activity at least on the part of one side, and at least one of the groups uses violence against the other

Dont tell me that the Iraqi Army was organized, were they?

For your perusal, SAGAMITE:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0622/p01s01-usmi.html

Killing is Killing no matter what the reason.When people representing a government start wars they know people are going to get killed. But just like the murderer, "they don't care" about the victim. Don't sugar coat it, call it what it is and maybe we can stop it.

STFU!!!

Who are you trying to impress with some iconoclastic, maverick and controversial's ideological debate you probably quoted from somewhere!

The Iraqi army is not organised? You are reetarded! But they are a national army OF a functional state WITH weapons, divisions and unified hierarchy! How much more organised does it get?

Foool, you will even equate ra.ping a woman and strangling her to be the same as warfare.

justise:

Why is it so hard for you to understand

YOU DON'T APPLY A LAW RETROACTIVELY: It is not done anywhere in the world.

You dont say, oh when you committed that crime , there was no law and that now we have a law, you should go.

Since there was no law that time, there was no crime; How could there be?

Why do you think there is statue of limitation?

A military government is an illegal government. Whatever crime they commit under such regime could be treated retrospectively including all the killings done. Those killings were etra-judicially perpetrated; All the participants should be brought to book under a democratic dispensation. That was what happened to all the plauers in the ethnic cleasing in the former czekh, remember bosnia and kossovo. Do you also remember Saddam Hussein and all his henchmen?

phreakabit:

Too bad you see it that way. IMO, let the living live, while the dead RIP. I think he is a honorable man, for carrying out his orders! You would have done the same, had it been you.

No vex sir! I did not create the law. Mustapha signed up for the Military, not me, he should have weighed the consequences better, I'm confident he did.

He signed up to die defending Nigerians so I'm sure it will be a pleasure for him to face the firing squad if convicted by Nigerian Law

BTW, most of the honourable military men I know died defending their people not Killing them.

Let's make Al-Mustapha Honourable!

the only thing I still remember is that TWO WRONGS can not make a right. Almustapha erred by being the guy who POINTS AND KILLS, FG too by being unable to pin him down after 11yrs. Though justice delayed is justice denied but justice should not just be done but must be seen to be done (na so lawyers for court talkam). Now beyond his own fundamental right to freedom, can the families of those he is accused of POINTING AND KILLING, see this as justice?

I ask again DOES TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT?

Dr Know:


A military government is an illegal government. Whatever crime they commit under such regime could be treated retrospectively including all the killings done. Those killings were etra-judicially perpetrated; All the participants should be brought to book under a democratic dispensation. That was what happened to all the plauers in the ethnic cleasing in the former czekh, remember bosnia and kossovo. Do you also remember Saddam Hussein and all his henchmen?

Those ones were documented and had laws in the book when those crimes were committed, unlike Nigeria

Either ways, the goons on NL would have us believe that he was guilty for the attempted murder on Olorogun's life, well, he we are, he has just been cleared by a COMPETENT COURT OF LAW.

And i am sure, he would also be cleared of any wrong doings in the killings of Kudirat.

BTW, shouldnt you geniuses be worried about the whereabout of Sgt. Rogers and the korean trained killer squad, rather than spend time spewing balderdash on the person of an innocent former public office holder? No?

I did not want to go here. But, I think this hate of Mustapha, is ethnically motivated. Am I wrong?