Islam hates Women? - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland
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| Re: Islam hates Women? by vedaxcool(m): 5:30pm On May 04, 2011 |
vedaxcool: |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 3:04pm On May 05, 2011 |
Vedaxcooooooooooooooollll!!! My guy, how far? You have returned, I thought they had captured you in Pakistan with OBL and his crew (Joke)  You have surely been missed, Anyway, I posted this under another topic and wanted to see if you could shed some light on it: tbaba posted an excellent piece, and though I celebrated with the revelers screaming USA, USA I am currently reflecting on the news that OBL was not armed when he was killed by US Special Ops. Could they have arrested and tried him in a US Military or UN Human Rights Court with evidence against him presented to the whole world? Then could he have been handed capital punishment when the courts found him guilty. Yes that could have been a possibility. On the other had while reading the article that you posted I read the statement below: Even if a murderer is legitimately executed (qisas) by the State for his crimes, it is not in our religion to rejoice at such a death; therefore how much more so when the death was caused in this fashion? (By this I mean that I would have preferred a live capture and public trial – but then again, at this stage we do not know the circumstances of his death). Now I read up on Qisa and according to wiki I found this: Differences exist over whether equal retaliation can be applied to Muslims who have murdered unbelievers. In the hadith of Bukhari, Ash-Sha'bi narrates that Abu Juhaifa said that "no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever)".[8] Three of the four schools of Islamic jurisprudence thus expressly prohibit capital punishment for Muslims who have murdered unbelievers; only allowing the payment of blood money. For the Maliki and Hanbali schools of jurisprudence, the value of a non-Muslim's life is worth one-half the value of a Muslim's life; in the Shafi'i school, the lives of Jews and Christians are worth one-third of those of Muslims, and the lives of Zoroastrians are worth one-fifteenth.[9][10] The Hanafi school allows capital punishment for Muslims who have murdered unbelievers, citing a hadith wherein Muhammad ordered the execution of a Muslim who killed a dhimmi. Then I go to a muslim website: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=92261 First of all, you should know that a Muslim should not be killed for killing a belligerent non-Muslim according to the consensus of the scholars . According to the view of the majority of the scholars a Muslim should not be killed against a free non-Muslim under the Muslim rule. The evidence about this is the saying of the Prophet : "A Muslim should not be killed for killing a non-Muslim." [At-Tirmithi] Moreover, according to the view of the majority of the scholars the title (and rulings) “disbeliever” is applicable to a free non-Muslim under the Muslim rule. However, Abu Haneefah, and the scholars of his School of jurisprudence are of the view that a Muslim should be killed for killing a free non-Muslim under Muslim rule; their evidence is the two verses which the questioner mentioned. Nonetheless, the correct opinion is that of the majority of the scholars that is based on the above Prophetic narration, which is a direct proof related to the case of dispute. Allaah Knows best. I understood the whole eye for an eye concept but then got to the Muslims/Non Muslim treatment, This is the very reason why Islamic jurisprudence and ideology as a whole is flawed. I am appalled to notice that 3 of the 4 Islamic schools endorse Muslims not being given equitable punishment for Murder against Non Muslims ie they are NOT to be given capital punishment. This sort of philosophy is called institutional discrimination. Imagine if the courts in Nigeria stated that a certain group of people say Yoruba traditional religous practitioners should not be given a death penalty for killing a non Yoruba traditional religous practitioners. Or if Whites in America were not punished equitably to Mexicans Americans in America. Or Non muslims given preference to Muslims in the West? This is not justice. Islam degrades non muslims and really views them as sub human. Then you guys wonder why there are the like of OBL, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb, Al Shabab, Hamas discrimination and oppression is core to the doctrine and not a corruption of the faith and jurisprudence. It is my duty to expose it. Lastly, Muslims and Arabs are not the only people that have been exploited by another group of people, Europeans and their descendants exploited each other and conquered many nations around the world, enslaved Africans, nearly annihilated native Americans and fought each other. Arabs/Muslims fought wars, enslaved and exploited each other, Europeans, berbers, Africans and fought wars all over the world. The Japanese did the same. Africans conquered and enslaved each other. The same for Asians etc etc. Why is it that most of the world has moved on and trying to build a better humanity while Muslims including those in Northern Nigeria, Palestine, India, Somalia, Philipines, China, Russia, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt (and pretty much anywhere there is a significant amount of muslims) refuse to live in peace with their christian, jewish, hindu, buddist, atheist, communist, animist, polytheist, capitalist neighbors. My last question is not in reference to each individual Muslims but just a pattern that is very glaring. The Japanese and German have US troops on their land and their people were killed and even bombed with the Atomic bomb (Japan) but we dont see them angry or playing victim with the west or anybody for that matter. Thank you |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 10:42pm On May 05, 2011 |
divinereal:You are too much ! the more Iread about you the more I have belief that all hope isn't lost for our country & mankind. Someone willing to use God given common sense & ask critical questions. Unfortunately you'll get no response as these guys have been programmed not to question or reason. Well done man  |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 9:13pm On May 08, 2011 |
Thanks congoshine, I guess you are right. No response. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by azharuddin: 1:55am On May 09, 2011 |
"Verily never will Allah change a condition of a people until they change what is within their souls." [Ra'd 13:11] You are not sincere in seeking the truth, you guys just wanna argue. : ) HasbunAllahu wa ni'amal wakeel HasbunAllahu wa ni'amal wakeel HasbunAllahu wa ni'amal wakeel |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 7:08pm On May 09, 2011 |
May 23, 2006 Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom released a report analyzing a set of Saudi Ministry of Education textbooks in use during the current academic year in Islamic studies courses for elementary and secondary students. The textbooks promote an ideology of hatred toward people, including Muslims, who do not subscribe to the Wahhabi sect of Islam. Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom released a report analyzing a set of Saudi Ministry of Education textbooks in use during the current academic year in Islamic studies courses for elementary and secondary students. The textbooks promote an ideology of hatred toward people, including Muslims, who do not subscribe to the Wahhabi sect of Islam. The report, entitled Saudi Arabia's Curriculum of Intolerance, was prepared by Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom in cooperation with the Institute for Gulf Affairs. Freedom House analyzed a set of 12 current Saudi Ministry of Education religion textbooks, used in the current academic year in Saudi Arabia (and in Saudi run schools outside the Kingdom). These texts were collected by the Washington-based Institute for Gulf Affairs from teachers, administrators and families with children in Saudi schools. Freedom House had them translated by two, independent Arabic speakers. "What is being taught today in Saudi public school textbooks about how Muslims should relate to other religious communities will poison the minds of a new generation of Saudis," said Nina Shea, Director of the Center for Religious Freedom and principal author of the report. "Whatever changes have been made in the Saudi educational system, clearly more needs to be done." The report's findings contradict claims made repeatedly by senior Saudi government spokesmen that they have thoroughly revised their educational materials. Over a year ago, Saudi embassy spokesman Adel al-Jubeir stated: "We have reviewed our educational curriculums. We have removed materials that are inciteful or intolerant towards people of other faiths." The new Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Turki al-Faisal, while on a nation-wide speaking tour earlier this year, asserted: "We eliminated what might be perceived as intolerance from old textbooks that were in our system." Just last week, on May 18, the Saudi Foreign Minister, Prince Saud Al-Faisal stated that "…the whole system of education is being transformed from top to bottom. Textbooks are only one of the steps that have been taken by Saudi Arabia." However, the report shows that these textbooks: [b]Condemn and denigrate the majority of Sunni Muslims who do not follow the Wahhabi understanding of Islam, and call them deviants and descendants of polytheists. Condemn and denigrate Shiite and Sufi Muslims' beliefs and practices as heretical and call them "polytheists;" Command Muslims to "hate" Christians, Jews, "polytheists" and other "unbelievers," including non-Wahhabi Muslims, though, incongruously, not to treat them "unjustly"; Teach the infamous forgeries, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, as historical fact; Teach other conspiracy theories accusing Freemasons, Lions Clubs and Rotary Clubs of plotting to undermine Muslims; Teach that "Jews and the Christians are enemies of the [Muslim] believers" and that "the clash" between the two realms is perpetual; Instruct students not to "greet," "befriend," "imitate," "show loyalty to," "be courteous to," or "respect" non-believers; Assert that the spread of Islam through jihad is a "religious duty;" Instruct that "fighting between Muslims and Jews" will continue until Judgment Day, and that the Muslims are promised victory over the Jews in the end; Include a map of the Middle East that labels Israel within its pre-1967 borders as "Palestine: occupied 1948." [/b] The Wahhabi sect of Islam is the foundation of the Saudi state's political ideology, and at the core of its educational curriculum. According to the Saudi embassy in Washington, the Saudi public school system has 25,000 schools, educating some 5 million students. Saudi Arabia also runs academies in 19 world capitals, including one outside Washington in Alexandria, Virginia, that use some of these same religious texts. Moreover, Saudi Arabia also distributes its religion texts around the world to some Islamic schools and madrassas that it does not directly operate. Given the closed nature of Saudi society, the Center has not undertaken a comprehensive review of the entire Saudi educational reform effort. The report was undertaken in response to concerns over whether the Saudi government has removed intolerant passages from its textbooks, and it urges the U.S. government to raise at the highest levels the continued teaching of hate and intolerance within Saudi Arabia. Full Report: http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/special_report/48.pdf |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 7:23pm On May 09, 2011 |
The Center for Religious Freedom of Freedom House, in cooperation with the Institute for Gulf Affairs, has examined passages of books prepared for students from grades 1 through 12, focusing primarily on the treatment of religions other than the Saudi state’s Wahabbi sect of Islam. The material found in these books reveals that the Saudi government continues to propagate an ideology of hate toward the “unbeliever,” which includes Christians, Jews, Shiites, Sufis, Sunni Muslims who do not follow Wahhabi doctrine, Hindus, atheists and others. This report’s objective is both to inform and spur debate over whether adequate reforms have been implemented in the Saudi government’s educational system, and to urge greater efforts in the future. Given the closed nature of the Saudi society, there has been a dearth of opportunities for a full and comprehensive examination of the “reformed” educational system. We do not know with certainty what is taught on a daily basis in the Saudi schools. What we know is what these textbooks contain. We also know that whatever is being taught today in Saudi public school textbooks about Muslims and their relations with other religions and cultures will influence a new generation of Saudis, as well as growing numbers of Muslims throughout the world who are receiving instruction from these texts. As we know too well, the problem of bigotry, incitement to violence and propagation of intolerance is not a problem only faced by Saudi Arabia. Historically, governments of various extremist ideologies, both religious and secular, have tried to portray those outside their belief systems as inferior or infidels. Recent events, whether in Darfur, Kosovo or Rwanda, have shown the human costs of such ideologies of hate. In the globalized world in which we find ourselves today, we all have a stake in what other peoples’ children, as well as our own, are taught. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 7:36pm On May 09, 2011 |
Saudi Arabia is also seeking to influence Islamic education, particularly in the 85 percent of the Muslim world that is Sunni. Abdurrahman Wahid, the former president of Indonesia and an Islamic scholar who has headed the world’s largest Muslim organization, Nahdlatal Ulama, observed that due to oil wealth “[i]n recent decades, 17 Wahhabi/Salafi ideology has made substantial inroads throughout the Muslim world.”44 According to some estimates, [b]Saudi Arabia has spent $75 billion in the last quarter century supporting this propaganda, roughly three times more a year than the Soviet Union did during the height of the Cold War.[/b]45 Saudi Ministry of Education textbooks for Islamic studies are also used in the international network of schools directly supervised by the Saudi state. A brochure from the Saudi Islamic Academy in Alexandria, Virginia, states: “The curriculum of the Arabic Language, Islamic Studies, and Arabic Social Studies and Civics is based on the Curriculum of the Saudi Ministry of Education. Other curricula such as Science, Math, Social Studies, English and Computer Science are similar to programs of study offered by the Fairfax County Schools in Virginia.”46 Saudi religious studies textbooks have also been found in some Islamic schools and madrassas throughout the world that are not directly operated by the Saudi government. The Report of the 9/11 Commission observed that worldwide “even in affluent countries, Saudi-funded Wahhabi schools are often the only Islamic schools” available47 Thus, what is being taught today in Saudi public school textbooks about Muslims and how they should understand their proper posture toward other religions and cultures may not simply influence a new generation of Saudis, but also those Muslims around the world who rely on the Saudi government’s claim that its instructions on Islam are authoritative. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 7:41pm On May 09, 2011 |
The descriptions of the “other” – Muslim “deviants,” “polytheists,” and “infidels” – in these Islamic studies textbooks for the current academic year do not comport with the picture of “moderation and tolerance” presented by the Saudi ambassador to Washington and other Saudi officials. These books continue to reflect a curriculum that inculcates religious hatred toward those who do not follow Wahhabi teachings. When the current school year ends, thousands more will graduate from Saudi public schools steeped in the belief that those of differing religious faiths are morally inferior and even evil. Their texts will have taught them that peaceful coexistence with so-called “infidels” is unattainable and that violence to spread Islam is not only permissible, but an obligation. The history of other wars and conflicts should remind us that education can be used to promote hatred, division, and hostility. Particularly in light of the Saudi desire to play a pivotal role in world Islam, Saudi educational policies should be a source of real concern for the United States and other democratic governments. Education is at the core of the prospects for sustained progress towards freedom and democracy in the region. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden understands this well. In his April 23, 2006 audiotape, he railed against those who would “interfere with school curricula.” A failure by Saudi Arabia to thoroughly reform its educational system will directly undermine U.S. foreign policy goals of encouraging moderation and democratic progress within the Islamic world. Clearly, more information is needed. The State Department should provide more detailed information through its publicly available reports about the use and contents of Islamic studies textbooks of Saudi Arabia’s public school curriculum. The U.S. government also needs to add its voice to those who are speaking out against intolerance. At the highest levels, it should raise the contents of bigotry and intolerance in educational materials with Saudi Arabia. It should support those within the country who speak up on behalf of Saudi Arabia’s repressed non-Wahhabi Muslim minorities and non-Muslims residing in the Kingdom. As a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and a Member State of the United Nations, Saudi Arabia is obliged to uphold tolerance and respect pluralism and religious freedom. As a strategic ally of the United States, it should put an immediate end to the propagation of hatred and religiously based justifications for hostility and violence in its public school educational materials, textbooks, and curriculum. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 8:25pm On May 10, 2011 |
@divinereal and congoshine; [Quote]Lastly, Muslims and Arabs are not the only people that have been exploited by another group of people, Europeans and their descendants exploited each other and conquered many nations around the world, enslaved Africans, nearly annihilated native Americans and fought each other. Arabs/Muslims fought wars, enslaved and exploited each other, Europeans, berbers, Africans and fought wars all over the world. The Japanese did the same. Africans conquered and enslaved each other. The same for Asians etc etc. Why is it that most of the world has moved on and trying to build a better humanity while Muslims including those in Northern Nigeria, Palestine, India, Somalia, Philipines, China, Russia, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt (and pretty much anywhere there is a significant amount of muslims) refuse to live in peace with their christian, jewish, hindu, buddist, atheist, communist, animist, polytheist, capitalist neighbors. My last question is not in reference to each individual Muslims but just a pattern that is very glaring. The Japanese and German have US troops on their land and their people were killed and even bombed with the Atomic bomb (Japan) but we dont see them angry or playing victim with the west or anybody for that matter. Thank you[/Quote]are you guys for real, or are you playing the ostrich head in the sand? Allah says in the Quran that if He does not check people with another people [less evil or whose evil is not like the evil of the people to be checked [eg. straight checking homosexual]], evil [that particular evil if you will] will overrun the earth [accepted as good and not what it is; evil]. it is Islam and the cryout of muslims in general that shame so many in their conscience to contrive and dont go along with the evil masses, or act as the unmovable barrier against evil. islamic struggle of the afghan mujahhiddin[s] led to the collapse of USSR, a thing that USA and the west/nato could not do in the cold war era. carter and reagan regimes praised and supported the muslims, knowing that USSR was doomed in the hands of the muslims. reagan did not say 'tear down this wall' until USSR was a shadow of her former self. mark you it is the west and always the west that is afraid od the unity of muslims world; there is oau, nato, eecu, nafta, but a mere kalifah office to unite muslims every group have stood against it. my question to you is why is this? the muslims were the people who help the coptics of egypt against rome. she was the one that liberated jews and christians of europe in iberia penisula against king rudreguez and his sect of christian supporters. let me just say that europe renaissance stood on the back of what islam brought. in recent history, england overlords in india pretended as if they were muslims when they created rift between the muslims and the majority hindus by killing sacred cows in the sight of the hindus, but far away that they can escape so that they are not caught and the truth is known. england created lawrence of arabia to topple the ottoman turks kalifa by exciting the arabs to revolt. no one wants anyone to convert by force, considering that if the heart is not converted, the tongue is insincere. but it is this type of conversion that spanish inquisition is all about! and just because japan and germany lay down to die does not mean this is the correct position, especially when the american founding fathers shouted 'give me liberty [freedom that is inert from God] or give me death'. no one wishes to be oppressed. i may not like the method employed in the muslim struggle, but i will not say struggle is not a fact that must come to play. it is the tactics that must be changed, however to meet islam guideline of fair due process of struggle. instead of you guys condemning oppression, you are blaming the victims. you may advice that the victim practice justice, but blaming them you must not, if you are sincere. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 10:51pm On May 10, 2011 |
"are you guys for real, or are you playing the ostrich head in the sand? Allah says in the Quran that if He does not check people with another people [less evil or whose evil is not like the evil of the people to be checked [eg. straight checking homosexual]], evil [that particular evil if you will] will overrun the earth [accepted as good and not what it is; evil]." Your world view is so warped dude! So God/Allah/Supreme being needs people to do his dirty work? Are you kidding me? The creator of the universe needs lowly humans to "check" people. This is so unfortunate. The more I hear from these fanatics the more I lose hope in humanity. "it is Islam and the cryout of Muslims in general that shame so many in their conscience to contrive and don't go along with the evil masses, or act as the unmovable barrier against evil. Islamic struggle of the afghan mujahhiddin[s] led to the collapse of USSR, a thing that USA and the west/nato could not do in the cold war era. carter and reagan regimes praised and supported the Muslims, knowing that USSR was doomed in the hands of the Muslims. reagan did not say 'tear down this wall' until USSR was a shadow of her former self." You are right the West supported Muslims in Afghanistan but that was not the single event that brought the USSR to her knees. It was a multitude of factors and the Muslims fighting in Afghanistan were fighting a proxy war [b]for the US/West as well as several other proxy wars around the globe and a declining economic system.[/b] "mark you it is the west and always the west that is afraid od the unity of Muslims world; there is oau, nato, eecu, nafta, but a mere kalifah office to unite Muslims every group have stood against it. my question to you is why is this?" More delusional verbiage, is any country or group of nation states banning the Arab League or Organization of Islamic Countries  It is your delusional world view that makes you feel insecure and that the world is out to get you. Nobody is oppressing Mulsims but Muslims themselves. Understand that most organizations, groups and nation states are looking out for their self interests. So do Nigerians, Americans, Saudi's, South Africans, British, Brazilians etc etc"the Muslims were the people who help the coptics of Egypt against Rome. she was the one that liberated Jews and Christians of Europe in Iberia peninsula against king rudreguez and his sect of christian supporters. let me just say that Europe renaissance stood on the back of what islam brought." The Muslims in Egypt are also oppressing the Copts in Egypt today. Muslims in the Arabian peninsula exterminated, drove into exile, forcefully converted or killed majority of christian, Jewish, polytheist population in the middle east and North Africa. Lest we forget Medina itself was a JEWISH city known as Yathrib. As for the Iberian Peninsula Muslims were the aggressors and expansionists and were trying to expand their empire into Europe but were dealt a lethal blow by Charles the Hammer and his grandson Charlemagne who decisively stopped the Muslims path for continental domination. The Osmans took the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire which was christian and and made it into the Ottoman Empire and change the Hagia Sophia to a mosque while renaming Constantinople Istanbul. "in recent history, england overlords in india pretended as if they were Muslims when they created rift between the Muslims and the majority hindus by killing sacred cows in the sight of the hindus, but far away that they can escape so that they are not caught and the truth is known. " Need I highlight the carnage and slaughter that Umayyad Caliphates brought to the Indian Subcontinent? "and just because japan and germany lay down to die does not mean this is the correct position, especially when the american founding fathers shouted 'give me liberty [freedom that is inert from God] or give me death'. no one wishes to be oppressed. i may not like the method employed in the muslim struggle, but i will not say struggle is not a fact that must come to play. it is the tactics that must be changed, however to meet islam guideline of fair due process of struggle." Using the human development indicators as measurement of the success of a nation state, Japan and Germany are more successful nations than all the Muslims nations put together. These 2 nations behemouth $9Trillion + economies are probably larger than the entire muslim world put together 5 fold. "instead of you guys condemning oppression, you are blaming the victims. you may advice that the victim practice justice, but blaming them you must not, if you are sincere." [b]See that's the problem the "us vs them" victim mentality. Yes I agree with you that the West has committed atrocious acts in the past and possibly currently as well. However, the Muslim and Arab world have done the same and much worse. I don't dislike Muslims as they are human beings but I critique principles of the Islamic ideology/doctrine that are unreasonable and irrational in a modern world. I do the same with other articles of faith and ideologies. My point is that Muslims need to stop viewing the world through a religious lens only. Islam is NOT under attack. Most Muslim nations are friends with the West . They are in bed together (Saudi and the west). The west defended Kuwait when a fellow muslim country Iraq invaded them. The west and the rest of the world supported Alassane Ouattara a Muslim in Ivory Coast when he won the presidential election. Sent aid to Pakistan when floods ravaged the country in 2010. Supported Pakistan during the cold war while the USSR supported India. I can go on for days. So stop with the one sided narrative of the evils the west or Jews or polytheist or communists did to Muslims. Empires, countries that held the Islamic flame have committed heinous acts that weren't noble as well. All countries the world over have a dark side. It is the evolution of human culture and society. So move past this myopic world view of in group/ out group. This is a global and integrated world were we all have a contribution to make to world peace and development.[/b] |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 2:11am On May 11, 2011 |
^^^^^^^^^^^ the voice of an insincere disputant. i am speaking about islam, you are speaking about those who say they are muslim nations. when person or group claims islam, you look at their core outlook. if it is different from islamic injunction, you point out their flaws to them. the ruling are Quran and Sunnah, the reason we know that almajiris are far from being Almuhajirun [ra]. iraq of sadaam hussaine invaded kuwait in 1990 not without the knowledge of bush senior who was the vp during the time the same iraq was killing iran, with funds from iran/contra affairs that reagan did not remember what he was doing in a particular day, indirectly pleading 5th. while i do not say that there are no evils done by muslims. indvidually or nations, none of it can christianity or judaism show us a clean hand from. if wealth is equal to morality, then america is the most moral country on earth, regardless of the federal deficit. it is in america that we have people claiming to be god[s]. and some extreme immorality like homosexuality, etc are not uncommon. please dont bring up your humanist agenda over here when you do not even understand the instinct of humanity. you cant argue away your false good nature when you reject divine guidance. this is the reason you think that their is no reason what so ever that human society may morally 'stop' evil in my 'a group checking another' expression. whats the purpose of life? why are you here? |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 8:14am On May 11, 2011 |
Sweetnecta:Lol !! Rather than admit that Islam has a serious internal problem,you blame it on the 'all powerful kafirs '  The whole world knows there's a problem. Many moderate muslims recognise there's a problem with Islam,violence and blood shedding. On nairaland the doubters would rather blame some amorphous and ambiguous 3rd party Imagine "Bush Snr gave Saddam the go-ahed to invade Kuwait" Mr Joker ! |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 12:27pm On May 11, 2011 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ he doesn't know tat bit of information about bush snr. how about the support of reagan/bush snr for iraq against iran who kept yanks as hostages for over 400 days? have you heard about gobanifah ever? you know this iran/contra affairs [gate] was what got attorney general casey out of nyc in big soup. have you ever heard of oliver north, and the others in that group of shadow operation? kaka ka fi enukan ba ole wi, won nso fun oninkan pe ibi ti o gbe nkan e si o dara. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 9:54am On May 12, 2011 |
Sweetnecta:E wo gan gan l'owe yen bawi. Admit it you're completely blinded by your beliefs. Well, this is Islamic thread not American thread. No one is saying America is good . I personally have a grudge against them because they have supported corrupt leaders in my country. My point is -Human beings are generally EVIL. Americans,Christians,Muslims,black ,white etc. However,typical muslim 'victim ' ideology from conspiracy theorists like you - can never see anything wrong with muslims - no its always the kafirs that control everything. When Saddam gassed his muslim country men,women & children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack) - its must be America , when he fought against Shia Iran for 7 years and over 1 million people died - it must be the Americans. He invaded Kuwait because he said it was part of Iraq until the 19th century,surely America is at fault. When I pray you will a muslim like saddamever be at fault ?? |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 6:21pm On May 12, 2011 |
This is the problem: funny thing is this goes on wherever there are muslims, including Nothern Nigeria, This mentality is wrong and needs to be exposed, http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/11/afghanistan.madrassa/ Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- The Muslim call to prayer echoes through a poor neighborhood, stirring the faithful. Men shuffle into a tiny mud-and-straw-brick mosque nestled among houses down a dirt lane. And they bring their sons, clutching tattered copies of the Quran, for lessons in hate at a religious school in Kabul, Afghanistan's capital. Outside, day is just breaking. Inside, the boys' heads are bowed. Some clutch prayer beads, as they recite the verses of their holy book. Slowly the boys fall into a trance-like rhythm, rocking ever harder back and forth. Over and over they will do this, hour after hour. "There is no God but Allah," they chant. It is a scene repeated day after day, as it has for centuries. The boys are following a path set by their fathers and their fathers before them. For many this is their whole world, a world of God and family. The men, after a time, peel away to whatever work they have in a country that has been crippled by war and poverty. The boys remain. Their numbers swell and fill the tiny mosque that now becomes a madrassa -- a religious school. Their imam -- or teacher -- arrives. A short man with a long beard and piercing gaze, he soon has the boys in his sway. He points and scolds, urging the boys to chant ever louder. Some begin to beat their chests with fierce devotion. In this way, the imam says the boys will come to memorize the Quran until they can repeat the verses by heart. "A child is like a tree, it will give fruit. When children come to see me I train them the right way," he tells me. That way is the way of strict sharia law. Girls are banned from their school. They tell me women should be behind doors at home. For them to go outside without a veil, they say, is filthy. The boys are all open, forthright and sure of themselves and their faith. The imam is an approachable man with a gentle smile and soft handshake. It is typical of such hard-line madrassas -- schools that gave birth to the Taliban have often been a breeding ground for suicide bombers and continue to flourish today. The message of faith and God is mixed with a hatred of anything outside their own world. The boys have been raised on a steady diet of anti-western propaganda. They are taught to fear outsiders and reject anything but the strict teachings of Islam. In this world the United States and NATO forces have spent a decade trying to battle militant insurgency and to win hearts and minds. Part of this mission is to steer impressionable young Muslim minds from the teachings of extremism, but here in this madrassa there is a compelling argument that the mission has failed. Do you like the United States I ask? There is a resounding "No!" Do you want them to leave? "Yes!" they yell. "We want our country to be peaceful. They are the devil." One boy adds: "The Americans are making the Taliban and Afghans fight each other and then they watch. When they see us fighting, Americans are happy." It's a message they get straight from their teacher, the imam himself. "God says we can never be friends with unbelievers. What do they know of our religion? We can never be friends," he says. These boys and their fathers before them have known little but war. There is no doubt they would fight for Islam. Afghan authorities feared they were being trained to do just that. Earlier this year, weapons, explosive devices and suicide bomber jackets were uncovered inside. The previous imam is now in prison, linked to a Pakistani Taliban network. The current imam refuses to believe it and says his predecessor should be released. The boys also stand by their previous teacher. To them it is all an American conspiracy. Influenced by whispers, half-truths, suspicion and fear, they spin stories that sound fanciful -- yet what matters is they believe it. "They kidnap mullahs and take them far away. I have seen on television Americans putting needles into the chests of people and pulling out the other. That's what they are doing to mullahs," one boy says. With lessons over for the day, the boys fall into the dusty streets. Soon they are playing with a toy gun. They race headlong at our camera pretend firing and making machine gun sounds. In this way they could be boys in any neighborhood anywhere in the world. Except here war is no game. These boys, at such a young age, already have an enemy: the United States. Tomorrow at dawn they will be back to that same mosque to hear how God is on their side. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 8:37pm On May 12, 2011 |
One thing I'm sure is that the more determined they are about fighting us,we are much more determined to defeat them. And good will always overcome evil ! (Insha Allah ) |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 9:35pm On May 12, 2011 |
@congoshine « #174 on: Today at 09:54:54 AM » [Quote] E wo gan gan l'owe yen bawi. Admit it you're completely blinded by your beliefs.[/Quote]is it because bush snr didn't know or sanctioned it forward [maybe] his one world order agenda, that the 'owe' is talking to me? and i'm blinded by my beliefs because i spoke the truth about bush snr, while you say below that you have a grudge with america for your own reason. who is at fault here? [Quote]Well, this is Islamic thread not American thread. No one is saying America is good . I personally have a grudge against them because they have supported corrupt leaders in my country. My point is -Human beings are generally EVIL. Americans,Christians,Muslims,black ,white etc.[/Quote]if you know humans are generally evil, what prevents you from not as evil as the 'human beings in general'? are you saying that your lack of Abrahamiic religion is responsible dealing by your instinct, alone without any religious code to make it robust in your heart? it is the abrahamic religion that guides those of us who are in it helps us not to be 'instinctive' in our affairs, though inspite of that evil of 'human being' will raise its ugly head. if we imagine that those evil people in abrahamic religion do not have that religion that they follow, i assure you that their degree of evil will be much worse than what you complain about, today. of course i do not recommend any evil, but i must let you know that inspite of religion, people still give in to evil. you who is 'irreligious' will be a better person with less evil if you adopt islam among the three, even if you think you are a non evil person right now. your goodness will be much higher. [Quote]However,typical muslim 'victim ' ideology from conspiracy theorists like you - can never see anything wrong with muslims - no its always the kafirs that control everything.[/Quote]i never played the victim card. there are things wrong with muslims; we abandon a good part of islam. even you say that i am a disbeliever [kafir] in your irreligious dogma. [Quote]When Saddam gassed his muslim country men,women & children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack) - its must be America , when he fought against Shia Iran for 7 years and over 1 million people died - it must be the Americans.[/Quote]was reagan presidency not a factor in the reason the un was not able to condemn iraq on the use chemical? [Quote]He invaded Kuwait because he said it was part of Iraq until the 19th century,surely America is at fault. When I pray you will a muslim like saddamever be at fault ??[/Quote] www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4911reality.htm - Cached - Similar APR 16 - 30, 2004 VOL. 2 ISSUE 8 WHAT ACTUALLY LED TO 9/11 Most Americans Simply Don’t Know The Facts: That George Bush Told Saddam It Would Be Ok To Invade Kuwait, Leading To Gulf War I, Which Turned Osama Against Us, Which Led To 9/11 and Gulf War II – And No, This Is Not A Joke And Yes, It Is Documented by Samuel A. Stanson |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 12:41am On May 13, 2011 |
Well, this is Islamic thread not American thread. No one is saying America is good . I personally have a grudge against them because they have supported corrupt leaders in my country. I don't proscribe to the assertion that humans are inherently "evil" or "good" for that matter. We make choices and these choices impact ourseleves as individuals and those around us negatively or positively. There are some people that make very bad choices and those that make better choices. We are a product of nature and nuture, socialized by our society resulting in our current world views. The core of Islam is rotten, I do not even see Mohammed as a very moral person, he started wars, married several women including a 6 year old, encouraged and instituionalized bigotry, killed off several tribes that didnt buy his agenda and even "slept"(read:<aped) with a Jewish woman the same day after he slaughtered the males in her entire tribe including her father and brothers.
These megolomaniac "gods" of the Middle East (Allah/Yaweh) reflect the people/societies of that era. The core problem is with Islamic ideology. I have little reservations with the spiritual part of Islam, prayer, charity, etc but the political and legal framework are tyrannical, mysogonist, barbaric, oppressive and woefully oudated. Though i believe in the equality of human beings a group of pple or an ideology that get their inspiration from countries like Afganistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not the kind of pple I intend to get my morality from, my forefathers were much more moral and rational and will take that path before I follow some middle eastern desert religion. If the ideology is so relevant explain to me why any of these religous books do not address real time issues of the modern world and post modern world? Why do you always have to explain things away and try rationalize things? Islam needs to evolve its strategy like christianity did give up attempting to conquer the world and just deal with its adherents as a personal religion. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 5:21pm On May 13, 2011 |
The point I ws making is not that human beings 'are inherently evil' ! My point some human beings are evil ,and these evil ones cut across race,tribe religion or sexual orientation .Claiming the US is responsible for all the problems of the muslim world is just plain fallacy , or positing that a 'few' muslims have 'departed from true Islam' is another rather pitiful hogwash. Its like claiming that islam somehow confers 'goodness' on every adherent,which errant nonesense. Open your mind my friend !  |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by divinereal: 9:53pm On May 13, 2011 |
Congoshine, you are the man!!! Thanks for expatiating on your views, I get it, I will make it a point to continue to challenge these religious fanatics and open their minds. The funny thing about Islam is the way majority of Muslims are taught to believe the doctrine is "Perfect" and when you punch holes in the ideology, culture etc they run in circles, some get angry etc, Christians will accept that their bielief system may not make sense and hop on the "well it works for me" and "god is a mystery" or even better yet "I have faith". But as for me I am not propagating any worldview or ideology, just ripping apart these charades that people call religions. As BLACK AFRICANS 1,000 of miles from the Middle East its a shame these useless religions have such a grip on our people. NIGERIAN's NEED TO WAKE UP!! |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 10:23pm On May 13, 2011 |
We are absolutely on the same page .It think its better one admits he doesn't fully understand many things in life but 'it works for him/her' than trying to cast every otehr person as 'kafir' and bad while you and your fellow 'believers' are perfect. Im also keen to encourage people to learn more about their culture,language & history and not spend all the time trying to understand and absorb arabic language ,culture,religion and inter-tribal politics. Lets hope some will get the message. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 2:33am On May 14, 2011 |
bad message. its like an epidemic. it kills the soul though the body looks fine. i'm wearing 9ja style of clothing. i'm thinking you are in your jeans and sweat shirt. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by chakula: 5:54pm On May 19, 2011 |
are YOU insane or what? what's relate this picture to this thread better off your presence wasn't appreciated carry your wahala go jor. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by miftaudeen(m): 9:54am On May 20, 2011 |
some pple will never see the truth cos ALLAH had blind their inner eye,blocked their earing. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 4:19pm On May 20, 2011 |
miftaudeen:Allah wants them to know the truth ,yet blinds them & blocks their (h)earing ?  Think about it again & tell me if it makes sense to you. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by azharuddin: 4:31pm On May 20, 2011 |
They long to extinguish Allah’s light (Islam) with their mouths, but Allah will surely perfect His light— however hateful (it may be) to the unbelievers. [Quran 61:8] |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by miftaudeen(m): 7:56pm On May 20, 2011 |
it makes sense,cos u see d truth & disbelieve in it.i will advice u 2 go & read d two books(alqur'an & d bible)carefully |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 9:26pm On May 20, 2011 |
@Congoshine; « #185 on: Today at 04:19:57 PM » [Quote]Quote from: miftaudeen on Today at 09:54:20 AM some pple will never see the truth cos ALLAH had blind their inner eye,blocked their hearing. Allah wants them to know the truth ,yet blinds them & blocks their (h)earing ? Undecided Think about it again & tell me if it makes sense to you. Smiley[/Quote]Merciful extends His Mercy to cover everyone that wants it. If the whole of mankind wants it, it be sufficient to cover everyone. Allah has provided in mankind an instinct to recognize truth and falsehood, right and wrong. This instinct is the base of our free will to choose guidance or misguidance. an 'one' who decided by the allure of misguidance when it glitters to reject absolute truth has done so, becoming deaf and blind and hardhearted to truth. this after they have heard, seen the people on the truth. Allah is just by withdrawing his Mercy from them. He deals with them in just manner by allowing them to continue in their blind rage. If they die in this condition, they can only blame themselves when Justice is metered on them in a just manner. however while they are on earth, me included, the Mercy of Allah is open to everyone while He withholds His Justice. you congoshine have heard from the muslims. you have read many a similitude. The Quran is there for you as a guidance. You will have no excuse. |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 1:23pm On May 21, 2011 |
Sweetnecta:Okay explain it better,please I beg you  Allah created good & bad(or evil). He(Allah) is good and wants all human beings to be good. He created human beings and gave them the choice to choose between good & evil. Then those that choose this 'evil' that Allah created Himself,will be punished severely Please let me know if this makes any sense to you. Wake up Africans & free yourselves !! |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by Sweetnecta: 3:29pm On May 21, 2011 |
^^^^^ whats wrong with in the free will that you are given allows you to know the truth and to know the evil? the choice is yours as your choice destination of paradise or hell is. simple example that you maybe able to relate to; your teacher provides a written material for you which he gave you a lecture in. he says that you can pass the quiz and get rewarded by going to higher class. if you fail you actually be punished by demoting you to a lower class and no one will repeat the class and no one will remain in the class of the level you are tested. paradise is the promotion, hell is the demotion, while earth is the classroom and the test is the book of guidance. if you fail because of your own free will to not study, who is at fault; your teacher, your classmate who study and pass and get promoted, the classroom, or you who didn't care to listen to any truth and instruct there failed terribly? |
| Re: Islam hates Women? by congoshine(m): 6:25pm On May 21, 2011 |
Sweetnecta:So why did Allah set up this elaborate soap opera ? If Almighty Allah needed people to punish or reward,why this blockbuster film invoving free will,hell,paradise ,72 virgins etc ? : And how come Allah is so misunderstod ? Some blow up themselves for him,some shave their pubic hair because he wants it like that. Yet natural disasters,disease , poverty, NYSC beheadings etc all these horrible things happen to Allah's people?? Is this part of the script? |
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