divinereal:

It is impossible to debate rationally with Islamists (and all fundamentalist religous people) as they conitnuously use circular reasoning in their discourse.  Realize that you have displayed that you have not looked at your religion from an objective stand point and refuse to develop critical thinking abilities as it pertains to Islam. I beckon you to come into the modern world, base your morality and reason on 21st century value system and not 7th century tribal Arabia.

You talk of rational debate? when you tell lies to prove your points, I wonder if Islam is such an evil religion why would you need lies to prove such, look at how deluded you are, after I showed you that u were lying in misquoting the Qur'an and outright slanderous statement, you came back and still insist that u are objective aqnd rational, pls tell that to the dogs if there is any thing I have come to understand about Christians inNL that critize Islam is that they place their entire arguement on distorting what the Qur'an actually says, Just like Seyibrown, you are still insisting that the verse you quoted are right.I believe Pagans worshipping stones are more honest and have higher morals than u. As for living in the mordern world, I wonder whether the hypocrit in you accepts that Homosexuality is not sin, aborting babies is very ok, using Nuclear bombs on Hiroshima is very best war practices, Alcoholism is cool etc, what 21st morality are you talking about? When one talks to a christian they pretend to be rational, but at the end of the day, the foolery in them comes on top, such rationality include the believe that a man that claim to be a servant can be god, a man that eats, sleeps, drinks, use the rest room like them is god, a man who categorically claim not be good as only GOD is good, is god to them, I see how rational you are. Clap for yourself for being rational. With rationality like these it leaves little wonder why you have to result to lying to prove your point.

Again I leave you with the the Qur'an as translated by divinereal

divinereal:




The Quran:

Sura (37:22-23) “Those who "did wrong" will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved).”

the tranlation of the Qur'an by Yusuf Ali

22. "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped
23. "Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the [Fierce] Fire!

May God save us from thr lies of divinereal, know that all Liars shall perish.

Vedaxcool you assumed that I am Christian but you are misguided again. I am a humanist, secular in my views and a fierce skeptic of religion. As I alluded to in my earlier posts, I criticize ALL Religions especially the Abrahamic Religions because they are aggressive by nature and are currently doing a lot of damage in Nigerian society. You can see more of my posts on Christianity, traditional practices and mysticism in other discussions.

The ideology of Islam is not immune to criticism. From your point of view, Islam is a doctrine from the divine for all mankind. However, there are 1.5Billion Muslims in the world but in reality; it is only an ideology of a minority of the 6.7Billion people on earth. That is a mere 22% of the world population.  There are thousands of other religious doctrines that all make claims to the “truth”, the way and the light. This is not unique dogma. Think about it, they all cannot be right! But there is a strong possibility that they are all wrong.  I am not here to argue about whether 1 god, 3 gods or 10,000 gods is the way to go. If you make claims that your god/doctrine is “SUPREME” or the answer to the myriad of mankind’s problems then be prepared to debate on its doctrine. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


As for you assertions of my views pertaining to
1) Homosexuality:  This phenomenon occurs in nature in many animals (dolphins, bonobos, and giraffes) and amongst human beings from all countries and societies (including Muslims countries) from time in memorial.  Homosexuality is very prevalent in strict Muslim societies due to the separations of genders http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/5883-more-pakistani-teens-choosing-gay-and-lesbian-sex.

Science already has theories of socialization and evolution as a driver of such a phenomenon and proof of "gay" gene.  Though I am a heterosexual and not completely comfortable with some aspects of the gay lifestyles or agenda, my creed is live and let live. Under no circumstance should homosexuals receive capital punishment as Islam strictly doles out. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Islam
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/family-die-Imam/article-3100449-detail/article.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals


2) Abortion: I am for abortions and a woman’s right to choose especially in cases of rape, deformity of a fetus or if the mothers health is in danger. I do not support the use abortions as a means of contraception nor do I support late term abortions.

3) Nuclear weapons: I do not support the use of Nuclear Weapons and it’s a travesty that the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However, we must also note that Japan dragged the United States into 2nd World War by attacking Pearl Harbor. I support the current US/Russia Nuclear disarmament policy and the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Yes, Iran (or any other diabolical, messianic, theocratic state) should NEVER EVER get a nuke and if they continue their nuclear facilities should be eliminated.

4) Alcoholism: This is an addictive disease that is associated with abuse of alcohol. As a consumer of fine spirits, I am absolutely against prohibition of alcohol and believe that it should be an INDIVIDUAL choice not the government/religion. Moderate consumption of alcohol has been shown to have very positive effects on overall health
Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages (beer, wine or distilled spirits or liquor) are generally less likely to suffer hypertension or high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease, Alzheimer's disease and the common cold. Sensible drinking also appears to be beneficial in reducing or preventing Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages (beer, wine or distilled spirits or liquor) are generally less likely to suffer hypertension or high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease, Alzheimer's disease and the common cold. Sensible drinking also appears to be beneficial in reducing or preventing diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, bone fractures and osteoporosis, kidney stones, digestive ailments, stress and depression, poor cognition and memory, Parkinson's disease, hepatitis A, pancreatic cancer, macular degeneration (a major cause of blindness), angina pectoris, duodenal ulcer, erectile sysfunction, hearing loss, gallstones, liver disease and poor physical condition in elderly.
I would advocate several troubled Muslim youth join their contemporaries in the rest of the world to have a glass of wine from time to time, have fun with some girls, it beats taking trips to Yemen, to engage in global Jihad via bombs in underwear while on airplanes as our Muslim brother AbdulMutallab did.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0804c.shtml


Well, just wanted to share my thoughts…, don’t be threatened by knowledge or science. Utilize your critical thinking faculties, contemplate on ideas and come to your own conclusions based on scientific facts and not emotion, religion, a book or culture. Have a nice day!!!

divinereal:

Vedaxcool you assumed that I am Christian but you are misguided again. I am a humanist, secular in my views and a fierce skeptic of religion. As I alluded to in my earlier posts, I criticize ALL Religions especially the Abrahamic Religions because they are aggressive by nature and are currently doing a lot of damage in Nigerian society. You can see more of my posts on Christianity, traditional practices and mysticism in other discussions.

The ideology of Islam is not immune to criticism. From your point of view, Islam is a doctrine from the divine for all mankind. However, there are 1.5Billion Muslims in the world but in reality; it is only an ideology of a minority of the 6.7Billion people on earth. That is a mere 22% of the world population.  There are thousands of other religious doctrines that all make claims to the “truth”, the way and the light. This is not unique dogma. Think about it, they all cannot be right! But there is a strong possibility that they are all wrong.  I am not here to argue about whether 1 god, 3 gods or 10,000 gods is the way to go. If you make claims that your god/doctrine is “SUPREME” or the answer to the myriad of mankind’s problems then be prepared to debate on its doctrine. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

h h

vedaxcool:

[size=22pt]You talk of rational debate? when you tell lies to prove your points, I wonder if Islam is such an evil religion why would you need lies to prove such, look at how deluded you are, after I showed you that u were lying in misquoting the Qur'an and outright slanderous statement, you came back and still insist that u are objective aqnd rational, pls tell that to the dogs[/size]

Keep Swagging your Lies,I can see Lying is part of your 21st Century Morality. I keep asking why would u need to lie to prove your point? It seems because you prefer spewing garbage that you read some pace else with out trying to even confirm the truthfulness of the evidence they bring, but because you have never used your so called rationality to understand what you are reading, that is why you are tell lies that only suit the dullards of Pre-Noah-an Era to hear. And Just as you have the right to criticize Islam we also have the right to question the forged evidence you use. Your talk of science does not make you immune from Criticism, instead it exposes your pseudo - intelligence that apparently failed you in even checking your evidence before claiming to have Proven "Rationally" the point you are espousing, Sweetnecta did indicated that all Your Additional statements in brackets when quoting the Qur'an Hardly figured in the Qur'an instead your Humanist lies made you twist the words of the Qur'an to suit what you are proving. To this ends I ask what have you gained by farting out lies to prove a pre-Conceive notion, knowledge, accolades from your god father wole soyinka? Praise from you Pseodu -intelligent co Humanist? The reason why people like you are bereft of guidance is because you are even false to your own selves. When you need to Lie next time make sure it something other people cannot verify, instead of using the name of science to gain credibility and Passing yourself as an Rational person, Indeed you can be termed Rational ONly in the bear parlours, as for your messed up Morals, Spew that Garbage to Wole not me.

Again I leave you with the the Qur'an as translated by divinereal

divinereal:




The Quran:

Sura (37:22-23) “Those who "did wrong" will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved).”

the tranlation of the Qur'an by Yusuf Ali

22. "Bring ye up", it shall be said, "The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped
23. "Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the [Fierce] Fire!

Indeed Who is more wicked than a person who invents a lie about ALLAH?

Lol, your ad hominem attacks are quite infantile. Dude no be fight with all this BOLD lettering. You are allowed to criticize my posts, I have no problem with that. The scientific method includes peer reviewing, lol

Back to our discourse:

Quranic rules are differentiated by sex, with men seemingly given greater rights and responsibilities. You cannot continue to use semantics or "classical" arabic to explain away what is self evident in your "holy" books and Islamic culture. There are innumerable verses that are abhorent and misogynist.  In an earlier post I posted 2 discussions by Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hersi that debated on women status in Islam.

Wife Beatings

Quran verse 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
 

Lastly, I think Wole Soyinka as well as Tai Solarin were great leaders from Nigeria. Im not ashamed to have them as role models and dicuss religion over a beer with them




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9cAa6SP79M&NR=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6bFR4_Ppk8

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6,9 or 12, i dont think u know the growth rate of people of the middle east. a 6 year old female may be believed to b more dan that. do you know how tall and big people were in the times of prophets, people like pharoah etc. before you write or quote any thing search for knowledge to help u know whether what u quote is sensible or not.


all this u are quoting may seem strange to you but u just have to believe its the truth. islam is the only religion that explains everything about the world and the hereafter in the best way. other religions like christianity and jewish as we all know are full of errors. the bible for example is a book that has got too many errors because it was written by men without any inspiration, even the bible scholars seem confused. sit down, reason well and go thru the quran and have a feeling of Gods words from it, there is no intermediary in islam just like oda religions have e.g. jesus, buddhaetc islam brings you to God himself and not thru anybody, accept islam today if u want to succeed in the grave and on the day of ressurection,

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6,9 or 12, i dont think u know the growth rate of people of the middle east. a 6 year old female may be believed to b more dan that. do you know how tall and big people were in the times of prophets, people like pharoah etc. before you write or quote any thing search for knowledge to help u know whether what u quote is sensible or not.


all this u are quoting may seem strange to you but u just have to believe its the truth. islam is the only religion that explains everything about the world and the hereafter in the best way. other religions like christianity and jewish as we all know are full of errors. the bible for example is a book that has got too many errors because it was written by men without any inspiration, even the bible scholars seem confused. sit down, reason well and go thru the quran and have a feeling of Gods words from it, there is no intermediary in islam just like oda religions have e.g. jesus, buddhaetc islam brings you to God himself and not thru anybody, accept islam today if u want to succeed in the grave and on the day of ressurection,

@Divinereal: « #67 on: Yesterday at 09:01:47 PM »
[Quote]Lol, your ad hominem attacks are quite infantile. Dude no be fight with all this BOLD lettering. You are allowed to criticize my posts, I have no problem with that. The scientific method includes peer reviewing, lol

Back to our discourse:

Quranic rules are differentiated by sex, with men seemingly given greater rights and responsibilities. You cannot continue to use semantics or "classical" arabic to explain away what is self evident in your "holy" books and Islamic culture. There are innumerable verses that are abhorent and misogynist. [b]In an earlier post I posted 2 discussions by Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hersi that debated on women status in Islam.[/b]If Quran differentiates any aspect of life by gender, tell me in your humanist and or community experience the world over, who is always the person in overall charge of the family; Father or Mother, as a general rule?

Quranic verses can be looked at in two view points; when it was first revealed with its at that moment in time applications, and the other is the generation of those who read it (in our case, 2011). In 2011 who is generally having the upper hand in the family structure; Father or Mother?

Who in your life; your father or your mother, and in your marital relationship, you or your wife? How about the cases of your friends and neighbors? Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hersi are speaking about Arabs in the generic sense. Regardless, Islam is different from Arabs, and Islam is different from Muslims.



[Quote]Wife Beatings

Quran verse 4:34
Men are in charge of women[b] by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other[/b] and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.[/Quote]As I read your piece, my mind went to Mel Gibson, who beat his russian model girl friend who is his baby's mother senselessly. Am sure he didnt get senseless beating quality from Quran, but maybe from "passion of the christ".

If he had read the Quran, he would have first believed and marry a believing woman as wife who shall bear for him baby/babies from the said legal marriage. The woman would have known that there is one captain steering the boat, and Gibson would be spending to maintain her. And a woman who is righteous and suffers no wants will be obedient to Allah, by being a devoted mate of her husband, who is equally devoted to her as mate.

She would naturally guard her sexuality away from men who will not mind sneaking a peak or wishing that they snatch it away from the husband. A wife who after all the above from the husband is arrogant, have received Mercy of Allah when the husband advises her, because most men who have no God consciousness will put her light out, the moment they get upset based on their being the "man". Advise is enough and should affect the heart of a sincere receiver.

Allah then says if she is still not changing, then dont have sex with her, when men are the ones that crave and demand it more. this is a self sacrificing effort to bring back balance in the relationship, while your striking him is the last bit, based on your quote. Is it strike, and how hard is striking, if you know? The reality is that there is more to just saying striking, while tapping is more like it, and in actuality it is light tap, since the messenger (AS) never even tried that and what Prophet Job (AS) the only one who did it at all was informed to light tap.[/quote]

The funny claim that Islam is a misogynist religion, is not only laughable but points to the fact that people that often make that claim are simply brain washed and have thrown thinking to the dogs here is how misogynist Islam is:

Women in Islam played an important role in the foundations of many Islamic educational institutions, such as Fatima al-Fihri's founding of the University of Al Karaouine in 859. This continued through to the Ayyubid dynasty in the 12th and 13th centuries, when 160 mosques and madrasahs were established in Damascus, 26 of which were funded by women through the Waqf (charitable trust or trust law) system. Half of all the royal patrons for these institutions were also women.[17] According to the Sunni scholar Ibn Asakir in the 12th century, there were opportunities for female education in the medieval Islamic world, writing that women could study, earn ijazahs (academic degrees), and qualify as scholars and teachers. This was especially the case for learned and scholarly families, who wanted to ensure the highest possible education for both their sons and daughters.[18] Ibn Asakir had himself studied under 80 different female teachers in his time. Female education in the Islamic world was inspired by Muhammad's wives: Khadijah, a successful businesswoman, and Aisha, a renowned hadith scholar and military leader. According to a hadith attributed to Muhammad, he praised the women of Medina because of their desire for religious knowledge:[19] "How splendid were the women of the ansar; shame did not prevent them from becoming learned in the faith."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_rights_of_women_in_history

The following are again "MISOGYNIST" SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET OF ISLAM PBUH:

Paradise is at the feet of mothers.

A man once asked the Prophet to whom he should show the most kindness. The Prophet replied: "Your mother, next your mother, next your mother, and then your father." (Sunan of Abu-Dawood) -----> iMAGINE THE RESPECT mUSLIMS ARE SUPPOSE TO ACCORD TO THEIR MUM IS THREE TIMES THAT OF THEIR FATHER. YET the hodes of Liars and hypocrits still insist Islam is a misogynist religion, I ask is this a lie beyound Logical explanations?

A man once consulted the Prophet Muhammad about taking part in a military campaign. The Prophet asked the man if his mother was still living. When told that she was alive, the Prophet said: "(Then) stay with her, for Paradise is at her feet." (Al-Tirmidhi)Ibn Majah, Sunan, Hadith no. 2771)

he Prophet said: "God has forbidden for you to be undutiful to your mothers." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

"A Muslim must not hate his wife, and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, let him be pleased with one that is good"

"The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is."
"Fear God in respect of women."
The world and all things in the world are precious but the most precious thing in the world is a virtuous woman."
etc

"A Muslim must not hate his wife; and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, then let him be pleased with another that is good."

But their Ignorance makes them say a great falsehood.

The widow shall not be married until she is consulted, and the virgin shall not be married until her consent is obtained.


The Qur'an also says:
And among His signs is this, that He has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect. (30:21)

"And revere the wombs that bore you, for God is ever watchful over you." (4:1)
They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them. (2:187)
Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight. (43:70)
[16:97] Anyone who works righteousness, male or female, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense (on the Day of Judgment) for their righteous works.
etc
In Islam men and women are paid equally in terms of their good deeds. Yet they say it is misogynist.
But we have to asked whether these people who accuse Islam of being Misogynist are being any rational with their accusation? I have come to note that these kind of people have forsaken independent thinking and have simply become full time regurgitation of ideas they do not even know or understand, this was exactly how I arued with an atheist who pretended to be rational yet all his claims fell on plain suppositions and conjecture, yet they claim to be rational using 21st century morals, I DEY LAUGH at their morals, which seems irreconcilably with truth and honesty. Their pretense to being rational is not only laughable but very comical indeed , With this you have to wonder what is happening, this are people that suppose to use their intellect to guide themselves yet you find them being very lazy in every field of common sense. I do pity indivivdauls who do not take time to ponder, The Qur'an says: Do they not consider the Qur'an with care had it been from any otheer than ALLAH it would have therein inconsistencies, this is the Qur'an calling the Ignorant regurgitators to think, ponder . . .

I promise this is my last post on this topic but had to share:
This is from an Islamic website smh

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/33597



Is it permissible for a man to force his wife or slave to have intercourse if she refuses?.


Praise be to Allaah.   

The woman does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her, so long as that will not harm her or keep her from doing an obligatory duty.

Al-Bukhaari (3237) and Muslim (1436) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)  said: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.”
If she refuses with no excuse, she is disobeying and is being defiant (nushooz), and he is no longer obliged to spend on her and clothe her.

The husband should admonish her and remind her of the punishment of Allaah, and forsake her in her bed. He also has the right to hit her, in a manner that does not cause injury. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked what a husband should do if his wife refuses him when he asks for intimacy.

He replied:

It is not permissible for her to rebel against him or to withhold herself from him, rather if she refuses him and persists in doing so, he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury, and she is not entitled to spending or a share of his time [in the case of plural marriage].” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/279.

And he was asked about a man who has a wife who is rebellious and refuses intimacy – does she forfeit the right to maintenance and clothing, and what should she do?

He replied:

She forfeits her right to maintenance and clothing if she does not let him be intimate with her. He has the right to hit her if she persists in being defiant. It is not permissible for her to refuse intimacy if he asks for that, rather she is disobeying Allaah and His Messenger (by refusing). In al-Saheeh it says: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, the One Who is in heaven will be angry with her until morning comes.”

From Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/278. The hadeeth was narrated by Muslim, 1736.

So the wife should be admonished first, and warned against defiance (nushooz) and of the anger of Allaah and the curse of the angels. If she does not respond, then the husband should forsake her in her bed, and if she does not respond to that, then he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury. If none of these steps are effective, then he may stop spending on her maintenance and clothing, and he has the right to divorce her or to allow her to separate from him by khula’ in return for some financial settlement, such as giving up the mahr.

Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah. And Allaah knows best.

So slavery is still acceptable in Islam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQJ8Rbgiox4

I can't believe what this world is turning into. Meanwhile, some people can be very good in article writing.

vedaxcool:
The funny claim that Islam is a misogynist religion, is not only laughable but points to the fact that people that often make that claim are simply brain washed and have thrown thinking to the dogs here is how misogynist Islam is:

Women in Islam played an important role in the foundations of many Islamic educational institutions, such as Fatima al-Fihri's founding of the University of Al Karaouine in 859. This continued through to the Ayyubid dynasty in the 12th and 13th centuries, when 160 mosques and madrasahs were established in Damascus, 26 of which were funded by women through the Waqf (charitable trust or trust law) system. Half of all the royal patrons for these institutions were also women.[17] According to the Sunni scholar Ibn Asakir in the 12th century, there were opportunities for female education in the medieval Islamic world, writing that women could study, earn ijazahs (academic degrees), and qualify as scholars and teachers. This was especially the case for learned and scholarly families, who wanted to ensure the highest possible education for both their sons and daughters.[18] Ibn Asakir had himself studied under 80 different female teachers in his time. Female education in the Islamic world was inspired by Muhammad's wives: Khadijah, a successful businesswoman, and Aisha, a renowned hadith scholar and military leader. According to a hadith attributed to Muhammad, he praised the women of Medina because of their desire for religious knowledge:[19] "How splendid were the women of the ansar; shame did not prevent them from becoming learned in the faith."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_rights_of_women_in_history

The following are again "MISOGYNIST" SAYINGS OF THE PROPHET OF ISLAM PBUH:

Paradise is at the feet of mothers.

A man once asked the Prophet to whom he should show the most kindness. The Prophet replied: "Your mother, next your mother, next your mother, and then your father." (Sunan of Abu-Dawood) -----> iMAGINE THE RESPECT mUSLIMS ARE SUPPOSE TO ACCORD TO THEIR MUM IS THREE TIMES THAT OF THEIR FATHER. YET the hodes of Liars and hypocrits still insist Islam is a misogynist religion, I ask is this a lie beyound Logical explanations?

A man once consulted the Prophet Muhammad about taking part in a military campaign. The Prophet asked the man if his mother was still living. When told that she was alive, the Prophet said: "(Then) stay with her, for Paradise is at her feet." (Al-Tirmidhi)Ibn Majah, Sunan, Hadith no. 2771)

he Prophet said: "God has forbidden for you to be undutiful to your mothers." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

"A Muslim must not hate his wife, and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, let him be pleased with one that is good"

"The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is."
"Fear God in respect of women."
The world and all things in the world are precious but the most precious thing in the world is a virtuous woman."
etc

"A Muslim must not hate his wife; and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, then let him be pleased with another that is good."

But their Ignorance makes them say a great falsehood.

The widow shall not be married until she is consulted, and the virgin shall not be married until her consent is obtained.


The Qur'an also says:
And among His signs is this, that He has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect. (30:21)

"And revere the wombs that bore you, for God is ever watchful over you." (4:1)
They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them. (2:187)
Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight. (43:70)
[16:97] Anyone who works righteousness, male or female, while believing, we will surely grant them a happy life in this world, and we will surely pay them their full recompense (on the Day of Judgment) for their righteous works.
etc
In Islam men and women are paid equally in terms of their good deeds. Yet they say it is misogynist.
But we have to asked whether these people who accuse Islam of being Misogynist are being any rational with their accusation? I have come to note that these kind of people have forsaken independent thinking and have simply become full time regurgitation of ideas they do not even know or understand, this was exactly how I arued with an atheist who pretended to be rational yet all his claims fell on plain suppositions and conjecture, yet they claim to be rational using 21st century morals, I DEY LAUGH at their morals, which seems irreconcilably with truth and honesty. Their pretense to being rational is not only laughable but very comical indeed , With this you have to wonder what is happening, this are people that suppose to use their intellect to guide themselves yet you find them being very lazy in every field of common sense. I do pity indivivdauls who do not take time to ponder, The Qur'an says: Do they not consider the Qur'an with care had it been from any otheer than ALLAH it would have therein inconsistencies, this is the Qur'an calling the Ignorant regurgitators to think, ponder . . .

It is not permissible for her to rebel against him or to withhold herself from him, rather if she refuses him and persists in doing so, he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury, and she is not entitled to spending or a share of his time [in the case of plural marriage].” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/279



Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah

divinereal:

I promise this is my last post on this topic but had to share

Again he allowed His 21st centuru "Morals" Prevail by telling a lie in quick succession, he goes agin and puts another post

divinereal:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQJ8Rbgiox4

With this kind of Morals it won't take long before he tells another lie.

On the Issue of wife beating, this is the Prophet's "verdict" on it

When interpreting a verse we have to take in consideration the Hadith of Holy Prophet (PBUH). He said; "Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, (in that case) chastise them in a way that leaves no mark (i.e. not severe). Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner." (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 2137)

This shows it is more of a psychological thing then a physical one and the purpose is only to maintain the chastity and mutual love and affection of the spouses.

So I "lied" about posting another blog, stone me, put a fatwa on my head,  (Joke, cheer up man!).

I never stated that the Quran had only immoral misogynist topics from a female perspective as most popular and mythical stories have both morality and immorality that can't be derived from the readings, writings or storyline. However, the clear contradiction in verses pertaining to women, and at best, the laissez-faire attitude of the Quran and Bible towards slavery is strong evidence of their fallibility.

You guys are moving the post again conveniently ignoring the 2nd to the last post from a Muslim website that clearly states that a husband can sleep with his wife whenever he pleases (provided she is healthy) and condones sleeping with ones SLAVES!! Where’s the morality there? It only makes sense when you look through the lens of Islam as a sanctified 7th century Arabic culture at best Islam cannibalized Arabian culture of the era. The many gods of pre Islamic Arabia where wiped out by the Mohammed (possibly a mythical figure) while most traditions of the era remained the same. Even the name Allah is from that the era of polytheism in Arabia, the Kaaba housed the multiple gods of Arabia. What is shocking is that Africans who had their own mythical legends and stories have now been totally brainwashed (admittedly not over night) by an Arabian myth and moral code.  I mean take the topic of covering women or women lowering their gaze? What makes you think that covering women up is pious? Why the thought that men are beings that cannot control their sexual appetites and thoughts? How does this edict relate to tribal societies where the people go naked or are barely covered in remote parts of Africa and South America?  How would you justify stoning an adulterer, or a homosexual, Apostate, dhimmitude or genocide because people have different beliefs from you or cutting off a person’s hand because they stole a goat for crying out loud? Really is it that serious? A god that cant/or refuses to stop wars, hurricanes, famine, tsunamis and other more important issues but cares about who a person sleeps with, what they eat (pork) or demands that we violently sacrifice an animal (halaal) as long as we pray over it with the head facing Mecca (even though there are more humane methods to sacrifice an animal) its ok? Come on people!!
Please I am not condoning adultery but I think death by stoning for the guilty is a bit excessive. 

Let me highlight the fact that these issues are not only related to Islam but all monotheistic religions. So I am not attacking Muslims, Christians or Jews but the very doctrines and theology that they believe in. The morality of these Middle Eastern religions is built on a house of cards.  I don’t know the answer to a lot of humanities problems.

Lastly, it is very interesting how this topic was moved to the Nairaland forum for Muslims!!! I am taking note it was originally just in the religion forum.  Administrators are you moving topics around to generate more traffic?

divinereal:

So I "lied" about posting another blog, stone me, put a fatwa on my head,  (Joke, cheer up man!).

Yeah Lying makes you smile, the jikes on you though, funny thing is your still lying by posting here guess your 21st century morals is deeply rooted in telling lies. , Just as you re - translate the Qur'an to make it say what you want to, my Fatwa(wich means Judgment but the Ignoramus in you think otherwise) on you is "You are a certified Liar who lies repeatedly, pls change for the better.

divinereal:

I never stated that the Quran had only immoral misogynist topics from a female perspective as most popular and mythical stories have both morality and immorality that can't be derived from the readings, writings or storyline. However, the clear contradiction in verses pertaining to women, and at best, the laissez-faire attitude of the Quran and Bible towards slavery is strong evidence of their fallibility.

Despite showing you verses of the Qur'an and hadith that clearly shows that Islam is not misogynist, you prefer repeating yourself like my broken CD player, man I am loving it , could hardly make sense of the rest of the stuff you wrote.

divinereal:

You guys are moving the post again conveniently ignoring the 2nd to the last post from a Muslim website that clearly states that a husband can sleep with his wife whenever he pleases (provided she is healthy) and condones sleeping with ones SLAVES!! Where’s the morality there?

Yawns, since I have given you the prophet words on it I see no sense is quoting a scholar's interpretation of the issue, feel free to keep repeating your self. But I wonder where is the morality in sleeping with a prostitute? where is the morality in adultery? but I guess it is a waste asking you since to you because Giraffe's practice homosexuality , then humans with all our higher intelligence should follow suit(follow animals) or didn't you say:

divinereal:


1) Homosexuality: This phenomenon occurs in nature in many animals (dolphins, bonobos, and giraffes) and amongst human beings from all countries and societies (including Muslims countries) from time in memorial. Homosexuality is very prevalent in strict Muslim societies due to the separations of genders http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/5883-more-pakistani-teens-choosing-gay-and-lesbian-sex.

Man you can follow the bonobos and dolphines for all I care, it only shows how rational and logical you are, Lol!

divinereal:

It only makes sense when you look through the lens of Islam as a sanctified 7th century Arabic culture at best Islam cannibalized Arabian culture of the era. The many gods of pre Islamic Arabia where wiped out by the Mohammed (possibly a mythical figure) while most traditions of the era remained the same.

HEhehehe, is some one high or what, so many of the idiotic cultures the pre - islamic Arabs Practice were refuted, like the habit of burying daughters aive, Islam forbade such practice, the arabs love to have binges, Islam put a stop tyo that, the arabs were superstitious people, the advent of Islam put an end to that, so many evil practices of the arabs did Islam end But can a man with a queer logic that pretends to be rational ever be more sensible, do you expect him to be any wiser in thinking before making statements that utterly false? I do laugh in Germanica to this queer logics.

divinereal:

Even the name Allah is from that the era of polytheism in Arabia, the Kaaba housed the multiple gods of Arabia.

so?

divinereal:

What is shocking is that Africans who had their own mythical legends and stories have now been totally brainwashed (admittedly not over night) by an Arabian myth and moral code.  I mean take the topic of covering women or women lowering their gaze? What makes you think that covering women up is pious?

If you are Ignorant of something learn to ask questions instead of behaving like Wole who usually thinks he knows all.

divinereal:

Why the thought that men are beings that cannot control their sexual appetites and thoughts? How does this edict relate to tribal societies where the people go unclothed or are barely covered in remote parts of Africa and South America?  How would you justify stoning an adulterer, or a homosexual, Apostate, dhimmitude or genocide because people have different beliefs from you or cutting off a person’s hand because they stole a goat for crying out loud?
Really is it that serious? A god that cant/or refuses to stop wars, hurricanes, famine, tsunamis and other more important issues but cares about who a person sleeps with, what they eat (pork) or demands that we violently sacrifice an animal (halaal) as long as we pray over it with the head facing Mecca (even though there are more humane methods to sacrifice an animal) its ok? Come on people!!
Please I am not condoning adultery but I think death by stoning for the guilty is a bit excessive. 

Let me highlight the fact that these issues are not only related to Islam but all monotheistic religions. So I am not attacking Muslims, Christians or Jews but the very doctrines and theology that they believe in. The morality of these Middle Eastern religions is built on a house of cards.  I don’t know the answer to a lot of humanities problems.

if you can't stick to the topic( because your futile points have been waved asside, then you can keep ranting, I will limit myself to the topic, keep twisting and turning. Looks who is actually moving the goal post, truly like i said earlier you are simply a regurgitator of ideas you do not even understand.


Lastly, it is very interesting how this topic was moved to the Nairaland forum for Muslims!!! I am taking note it was originally just in the religion forum.  Administrators are you moving topics around to generate more traffic?

[quote][/quote]

Then go complain to the moderators instead of taking note alone.

Very interesting.

There's something called re-inforcement theory : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_Theory

I think most muslims (and indeed christians) confirm this.

Rather than say ,honestly this thing is in the Koran,I don't agree with it & I can't explain ,it. We try to look for someway of confirming what is not explainable.

Why must we take the Koran for its word in some cases, read it in context in another or use a hadith to clarify it in a few others ?

Simply keep quiet or admit you don't agree with that verse of scripture. Don't try to argue in circles.

Same goes for christians too. . . .

illusion2:

Very interesting.

There's something called re-inforcement theory : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_Theory

I think most muslims (and indeed christians) confirm this.

Rather than say ,honestly this thing is in the Koran,I don't agree with it & I can't explain ,it. We try to look for someway of confirming what is not explainable.

Why must we take the Koran for its word in some cases, read it in context in another or use a hadith to clarify it in a few others ?

Simply keep quiet or admit you don't agree with that verse of scripture. Don't try to argue in circles.

Same goes for christians too. . . .

Hehehe, look who is talking, It is your guy divinereal that has spent the entire thread repeating himself over and over again, Again your grand ignorance has left you looking like a homo Giraffe(No insult inteneded) as anybody with common sense should have first asked about the Islamic methodology instead of saying reinforcement theory, In Islam the Qur'an said muslims should follow the words of the prophet PBUH, which are the hadith, if you want people to agree with you, then bring intelligable points, not reinforcement theory , maybe you want us to hail you for the theory, me no sabi, but the koko of the matter is Islam cleary respects women, from all the verses i have given I believe it is clearly beyound reinforcement theory tactics of yours, only a bigot like divine-un-real can continue defending the indefesible, again only a bigot like divineunreal will pretend that the verses I quoted do not refute his misogynist lies, but I guess you prefer us accepting anything and simple shut up when we read lies , pls Hitler died a long time ago, and this is the internet we have every right to refute what we know to be lies, and this is one problem I have with people like you and divineunreal, when they are shown the truth they become blind . May ALLAH mercy un-blind you amin.; And like I said when you do not know something simply ask a question instead of pretending to know all.

Truth has come falsehood have fled.

vedaxcool:

Hehehe, look who is talking, It is your guy divinereal that has spent the entire thread repeating himself over and over again, Again your grand ignorance has left you looking like a homo Giraffe(No insult inteneded) as anybody with common sense should have first asked about the Islamic methodology instead of saying reinforcement theory, In Islam the Qur'an said muslims should follow the words of the prophet PBUH, which are the hadith, if you want people to agree with you, then bring intelligable points, not reinforcement theory , maybe you want us to hail you for the theory, me no sabi, but the koko of the matter is Islam cleary respects women, from all the verses i have given I believe it is clearly beyound reinforcement theory tactics of yours, only a bigot like divine-un-real can continue defending the indefesible, again only a bigot like divineunreal will pretend that the verses I quoted do not refute his misogynist lies, but I guess you prefer us accepting anything and simple shut up when we read lies , pls Hitler died a long time ago, and this is the internet we have every right to refute what we know to be lies, and this is one problem I have with people like you and divineunreal, when they are shown the truth they become blind . May ALLAH mercy un-blind you amin.; And like I said when you do not know something simply ask a question instead of pretending to know all.

Truth has come falsehood have fled.

Haba. Once people can't match you on an intellectual level,they resort to cheap insults.

I won't join you on this as the easiest thing would be to insult you back & then you do same & it goes on ,while the real subject under discourse will be avoided.

Learn from tbaba1234,LagosBoy etc- dismember arguments by offering something superior not decending to gutter level, okay?

vedaxcool:

In Islam the Qur'an said muslims should follow the words of the prophet PBUH, which are the hadith

Can someone please explain this ?

^^^^^

its a waste replying you.

Yeah Lying makes you smile, the jikes on you though, funny thing is your still lying by posting here guess your 21st century morals is deeply rooted in telling lies. , Just as you re - translate the Qur'an to make it say what you want to, my Fatwa(wich means Judgment but the Ignoramus in you think otherwise) on you is "You are a certified Liar who lies repeatedly, pls change for the better.

Ad hominem attacks once again.
Per the lies, I wonder what your thoughts are on “Taqiyya”?
Replace “Fatwa” with “judgment” and my statement is still robust!



Despite showing you verses of the Qur'an and hadith that clearly shows that Islam is not misogynist, you prefer repeating yourself like my broken CD player, man I am loving it , could hardly make sense of the rest of the stuff you wrote.
You provided some verses with positive views on women and I provided some with very negative views at best it shows contradictions in this purported holy book.



Yawns, since I have given you the prophet words on it I see no sense is quoting a scholar's interpretation of the issue, feel free to keep repeating your self. But I wonder where is the morality in sleeping with a love-peddler? where is the morality in adultery?

I take the consequentialist point of view on punishment. Does the ends justify the means? I assert unequivocally that stoning or advocating stoning anybody to death in 2011 is barbaric.  I do not advocate adultery as there are negative effects to a family and society however, I believe in human redemption, many marriages survive infidelity. Adultery can be punished in a civil manner by divorce, punitive financial arrangements and at worst jail time but definitely not stoning!!!
Before you throw stones when you live in a glass house, Mohammed and Muslims contributed to a myriad of sexualized culture over the years: Harems, Sexual Slavery, Institutionalizing Pedophilia (where today an abominable Nigerian senator marries an Egyptian minor and claims it is his religious right!!!), Polygamy, temporary marriages (Nikah mut‘ah), Inbreeding (marrying of cousins, even though it is scientifically proven to be detrimental to offspring) etc etc.  These are not unique to Islam or Islamic culture but the negation of cultural evolution attributable to a “divine” ideology that is unbendable is the quandary.


but I guess it is a waste asking you since to you because Giraffe's practice homosexuality , then humans with all our higher intelligence should follow suit(follow animals) or didn't you say:
Quote from: divinereal on January 21, 2011, 05:38 PM
1)   Homosexuality:  This phenomenon occurs in nature in many animals (dolphins, bonobos, and giraffes) and amongst human beings from all countries and societies (including Muslims countries) from time in memorial.  Homosexuality is very prevalent in strict Muslim societies due to the separations of genders http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/5883-more-pakistani-teens-choosing-gay-and-lesbian-sex.
Man you can follow the bonobos and dolphines for all I care, it only shows how rational and logical you are, Lol!    

You failed to get the crux of my argument. I am not following animals, however, if it is proven that a trait such as homosexuality is found in many animals, a plethora of disparate human cultures and scientifically there may even be a “gay” gene, then one needs to reassess their views on this observable natural occurring fact.  Life forms come in different shapes and sizes, many of us come in different shades, varying intellect, physical prowess and quirks, a spectrum of humanity that can only be explained by evolution. Such a phenomenom as homosexuality should be studied and understood not relegated to stoning. Now if you take the point of view of a religionist, then you will need to pose the question Why would any god make gays or for that matter children with physical disabilities?

HEhehehe, is some one high or what, so many of the idiotic cultures the pre - islamic Arabs Practice were refuted, like the habit of burying daughters aive, Islam forbade such practice, the arabs love to have binges, Islam put a stop tyo that, the arabs were superstitious people, the advent of Islam put an end to that, so many evil practices of the arabs did Islam end  But can a man with a queer logic that pretends to be rational ever be more sensible, do you expect him to be any wiser in thinking before making statements that utterly false? I do laugh in Germanica to this queer logics.

Most ignorant people remain superstitious. Islam and Islamic culture is replete with Arabian superstitions including Jinn’s (absolutely ridiculous), Evil Eye (Muslim 5427), Spells (Muslim 5428) Witchcraft & Sorcery, Yawning being of the devil (Bukhari 73:245). Women today in Islamic countries are arrested and prosecuted for black magic. Not unique to just Muslim societies as many African countries have similar problems which I detest just as vehemently. The biggest superstition is that believers need to travel to Mecca and circle a meteorite seven times.  A practice appropriated from the Arab pagans from preislamic Arabia. From the idols worshipped by the pagans at Mecca in Muhammad's time, guess which stone was allowed to remain? The black rock that was holy to his Quraish tribe. Quite a sinister lad this Mohammed guy!


if you can't stick to the topic( because your futile points have been waved asside, then you can keep ranting, I will limit myself to the topic, keep twisting and turning. Looks who is actually moving the goal post, truly like i said earlier you are simply a regurgitator of ideas you do not even understand.

I am not moving the goal post, I am stating my argument quite lucidly and responding to your statements. I guess I expect much more perfection from a divine being versus the glaring imperfections in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic theology.


Per your reference to you calling me a bigot, its a ruse and extremely defensive. I identify myself first and foremost as a human being and have more in common with you than you would acknowledge.  Critiquing the doctrine and theology of belief systems including is not bigoted.

divinereal:

Yeah Lying makes you smile, the jikes on you though, funny thing is your still lying by posting here guess your 21st century morals is deeply rooted in telling lies. , Just as you re - translate the Qur'an to make it say what you want to, my Fatwa(wich means Judgment but the Ignoramus in you think otherwise) on you is "You are a certified Liar who lies repeatedly, pls change for the better.

Ad hominem attacks once again.
Per the lies, I wonder what your thoughts are on “Taqiyya”?
Replace “Fatwa” with “judgment” and my statement is still robust!

It is very funny how you think lies you tell do no count in this discussion, you label them personal attacks I say this are clear truths, that you prefer hiding behind the word adhominem, pls, I think it is very much Justify to label you a dilettante.

divinereal:

Despite showing you verses of the Qur'an and hadith that clearly shows that Islam is not misogynist, you prefer repeating yourself like my broken CD player, man I am loving it , could hardly make sense of the rest of the stuff you wrote.
You provided some verses with positive views on women and I provided some with very negative views at best it shows contradictions in this purported holy book.

Atleast you are showing signs of honesty, initailly you appeared blind to strong rebuttal, now you label them positive views, Heheh , a misogynist religion indeed, when you could only point to what? a few verses that you deliberately you re-translated, man I am really laughing at you u Logics indeed, becuase you have spent more time re- translating things so that they suit your pre - concieved notions, man you are being too "rational" don't you think?

divinereal:

Yawns, since I have given you the prophet words on it I see no sense is quoting a scholar's interpretation of the issue, feel free to keep repeating your self. But I wonder where is the morality in sleeping with a love-peddler? where is the morality in adultery?

I take the consequentialist point of view on punishment. Does the means justify the end? I assert unequivocally that stoning or advocating stoning anybody to death in 2011 is barbaric.  I do not advocate adultery as there are negative effects to a family and society however, I believe in human redemption, many marriages survive infidelity. Adultery can be punished in a civil manner by divorce, punitive financial arrangements and at worst jail time but definitely not stoning!!!

Before you throw stones when you live in a glass house, Mohammed and Muslims contributed to a myriad of sexualized culture over the years: Harems, Sexual Slavery, Institutionalizing Pedophilia (where today an abominable Nigerian senator marries an Egyptian minor and claims it is his religious right!!!), Polygamy, temporary marriages (Nikah mut‘ah), Inbreeding (marrying of cousins, even though it is scientifically proven to be detrimental to offspring) etc etc.  These are not unique to Islam or Islamic culture but the negation of cultural evolution attributable to a “divine” ideology that is unbendable is the quandary.

Yawns! keep your hypocritical points of views to yourself,as the severity of any punishment is rather subjective, and I am not for that, and usually the process of convicting someone for adultry is usually very difficult - there is need for 3 witnesses, as for your other claims man you are simply reguritating what other think, and Like I said it only makes you more of a dilettante than someone that uses his brain, on Pedophilia, you are barely using your upstairs in thinking;watch this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03KSSl0qayg

divinereal:

On inbreeding, I guess to you the word likely means certainly, as the claims of scientist are that marriages between cousins increases the likelihood of reccessive genes disorder, well that is saying increased probability, and as a scientist said '"Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny. Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity. There is no scientific grounding for it." , so you can hang on that, we know how rational you are.

On temporary marriage it is very much forbiden in Islam, thouh some sects pratice such.

divinereal:

but I guess it is a waste asking you since to you because Giraffe's practice homosexuality , then humans with all our higher intelligence should follow suit(follow animals) or didn't you say:
Quote from: divinereal on January 21, 2011, 05:38 PM
1) Homosexuality: This phenomenon occurs in nature in many animals (dolphins, bonobos, and giraffes) and amongst human beings from all countries and societies (including Muslims countries) from time in memorial. Homosexuality is very prevalent in strict Muslim societies due to the separations of genders http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/5883-more-pakistani-teens-choosing-gay-and-lesbian-sex.
Man you can follow the bonobos and dolphines for all I care, it only shows how rational and logical you are, Lol!

You failed to get the crux of my argument. I am not following animals, however, if it is proven that a trait such as homosexuality is found in many animals, a plethora of disparate human cultures and scientifically there may even be a “gay” gene, then one needs to reassess their views on this observable natural occurring fact. Life forms come in different shapes and sizes, many of us come in different shades, varying intellect, physical prowess and quirks, a spectrum of humanity that can only be explained by evolution. Such a phenomenom as homosexuality should be studied and understood not relegated to stoning. Now if you take the point of view of a religionist, then you will need to pose the question Why would any god make gays or for that matter children with physical disabilities?

i can only say, 'Man you can follow the bonobos and dolphines for all I care, it only shows how rational and logical you are, Lol!, being a gay is by choice not by nature, unless u mean to call them freeks and natures mistakes, well I wonder how that will settle with your humanist bosses?

Read the consequence of following bonobos, 'http://www.conservapedia.com/Gay_bowel_syndrome'
http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html

divinereal:

HEhehehe, is some one high or what, so many of the idiotic cultures the pre - islamic Arabs Practice were refuted, like the habit of burying daughters aive, Islam forbade such practice, the arabs love to have binges, Islam put a stop tyo that, the arabs were superstitious people, the advent of Islam put an end to that, so many evil practices of the arabs did Islam end But can a man with a queer logic that pretends to be rational ever be more sensible, do you expect him to be any wiser in thinking before making statements that utterly false? I do laugh in Germanica to this queer logics.

Most ignorant people remain superstitious. Islam and Islamic culture is replete with Arabian superstitions including Jinn’s (absolutely ridiculous), Evil Eye (Muslim 5427), Spells (Muslim 5428) Witchcraft & Sorcery, Yawning being of the devil (Bukhari 73:245). Women today in Islamic countries are arrested and prosecuted for black magic. Not unique to just Muslim societies as many African countries have similar problems which I detest just as vehemently. The biggest superstition is that believers need to travel to Mecca and circle a meteorite seven times. A practice appropriated from the Arab pagans from preislamic Arabia. From the idols worshipped by the pagans at Mecca in Muhammad's time, guess which stone was allowed to remain? The black rock that was holy to his Quraish tribe. Quite a sinister lad this Mohammed guy!

Yawns, I did not know pilgrimage has become superstition, it is indeed a pity how low you are sinking to fanatically support your point of view. You can't simply keep to the topic because all u have been sayiing is just a ruse.

divinereal:

if you can't stick to the topic( because your futile points have been waved asside, then you can keep ranting, I will limit myself to the topic, keep twisting and turning. Looks who is actually moving the goal post, truly like i said earlier you are simply a regurgitator of ideas you do not even understand.

I am not moving the goal post, I am stating my argument quite lucidly and responding to your statements. I guess I expect much more perfection from a divine being versus the glaring imperfections in the Judeo-Christian and Islamic theology.

Replying things I never said, Keep deluding yourself.

divinereal:

Per your reference to you calling me a bigot, its a ruse and extremely defensive. I identify myself first and foremost as a human being and have more in common with you than you would acknowledge. Critiquing the doctrine and theology of belief systems including is not bigoted.

Your Bigotry stems from the fact that you are furiously restating an assertion that has been replied, you deliberately mis-translated the Qur'an in other to win bumble bee points , that the ideas you espouse appear to be ideas you hardly understand, rather they are ideas that u only know how to epeat rather than explain, you Bigotry is simply futile, towards a direction that has no promise, wasn't it your guy illustion that said we should just shut up and accept your rehersed critique? Man you only leave me laughing, I DEY LUAUGh

None so blind
:
1. The fact that the Op stated this thread based on the actions of some individual, to which we ask are they reflecting the Islamic way? this simple question the Op serially failed to answer.

2. Muslims must be Judged based on the values of Islam not the other way round yet we see individuals basing their entire critique on the acts of some mulims.

3. The Mere fact that Divinereal mis-translated and even added words to the qur'an that do even figure shows the sustained failure of the critics to bring evidence in the most rational and acceptable manner.

4. The mere facts that a lot of women in the Libral west are accepting Islam points to the facts that Islam is very much women friendly.

5.The sayings of the Prophet and Qur'anic verses points to the fact that Islam views on women are very much one based on respect.

6.For the mere fact that divinereal mainliy relies on materiel critical of Islam have exposed the deep seated harted that lies within him against Islam, yet if he ws to be any rational he would have first understand Islam from a Muslim perspective before Jubilating that he has proven Islam 'Faliability"

7.Again the fact that divinereal has spent most time regurgtating and repeating what he had said earlier makes his entire case very amusing.

8.The Fact that Prophet Muhammad treated women right during his live time points to the fact that Islam is women friendly and Muslims must learn to follow his way, as The Prophet showed great tolerance towards his wife, Most men these says do not have a minute quantity of the prophet patience in dealing with women.

9 The rights of women increased astronomically with the advent of Islam, this points to the fact that Islam has nothing against women.

10. Islam gave women the right to inherit during a time when inheritance by women ws not condoled, even divinereal masters in the west only gave women the right to inherit around the 16-17century.

Lovely topic,lets keep it civil,please.

I know many really good muslims ,so we shouldn't generalise.

Also different people have different interpretations of the holy texts.

I have a few comments however :

vedaxcool:

The mere facts that a lot of women in the Libral west are accepting Islam points to the facts that Islam is very much women friendly.

The mere fact that a great number of teenagers are taking up smoking means cigarettes are largely good 

vedaxcool:

Islam gave women the right to inherit during a time when inheritance by women ws not condoled, even divinereal masters in the west only gave women the right to inherit around the 16-17century.

When did 'west' become a religion ? 

hymen:



I have a few comments however :
The mere fact that a great number of teenagers are taking up smoking means cigarettes are largely good

Lol! , You are quite funny, as smoking and what we are discussing are two worlds apart, as it is very evident that if a Libral woman, one that has enjoined consideratble freedom can turn to Islam, then we can conclude that despite these women experience they are willing to turn to Islam which according to divinereal, hates them, one would expect that a libral woman will simply turn her back to it, but the reverse is the case. this points to the fact that Islam is not anti women, your use of smoking is a rather poor comparison don't you think?

hymen:

When did 'west' become a religion ?

Feel free to replace west with Christianity, as the west has its' own values and cultures, the point remains that Islam was centurys ahead of them.

Do spell checking next time.

Your analysis is quite porous my dear. Women convert for many reasons. I have posted a thread on 'Love Jihad ' before https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-419370.0.html

In addition ,some may do it to rebel or find solace when it seems their world is coming apart.

Just like many muslims also convert to christianity or atheism. You can never conclude the reasoning behind people's personal choices.

Its just like the popular statement 'there are 1.5 billion muslims' in the world

It means absolutely nothing. We have over 2 billion hindus and buddhists (idol worshippers),so does that mean anything.

The fastest growing religion in the world is atheism .

^^^^^When Hymen converts, hopefully this year, since she doesnt come across as someone arrogant or hard at heart, I will be eager to read her reason for "reversion". It will be a delightful experience for her and my prayer is that she tastes it and get hooked on it.

May Allah not make her the likes of Abu Lahab, who despite knowing the truth ignored it. May Allah not bring the like of Abu Jahal into her life, being a barrier for her not entering Islam. Amin.

The best in your life is yet to come, and it shall know it when it arrives as you enter Islam, enjoining what is good and forbidding evil.

Enter Islam completely and abhor the ways of the evil one for he is indeed an open enemy to you.

Sweetnecta:

^^^^^When Hymen converts, hopefully this year, since she doesnt come across as someone arrogant or hard at heart, I will be eager to read her reason for "reversion". It will be a delightful experience for her and my prayer is that she tastes it and get hooked on it.

May Allah not make her the likes of Abu Lahab, who despite knowing the truth ignored it. May Allah not bring the like of Abu Jahal into her life, being a barrier for her not entering Islam. Amin.

The best in your life is yet to come, and it shall know it when it arrives as you enter Islam, enjoining what is good and forbidding evil.

Enter Islam completely and abhor the ways of the evil one for he is indeed an open enemy to you.

Which 'evil one' ?


Are u saying all non-muslims worship the devil

hymen:

Which 'evil one' ?


Are u saying all non-muslims worship the devil

He quoted a verse of the Quran and the verse applies to Muslim as well if not mainly Muslims. So relax as he isn't saying all non muslms are evil people. The verse actually translates as "enter into Islam wholeheartedly and avoid the ways of the shaiytan for he is an open enemy to you". The verse is very useful when it comes to Muslims worshiping ifa by deifying orunmila and when their attention is brought to it rather thanbe humble and ask questions they become arrogant and go on the offensive.

Hymen, you really need to look into liberal women in west turning heir backs on liberalism and acceptin Islam. I live in the west and I have come into contact with many of them. 90% of them is never due to marriage and there are loads of them in London looking for muslim husbands. The common denominator is they all find truth in islam and they revert when they can no longer decieve themselves or supress the truth that has entered their heart subconsciously.

A good example would lauryn booth, Cheryl Blair sister, another one is Yvonne Ridley and so many other women top of heir careers whose hearts were arrested by the light of Islam. I pray that light never eludes your heart as you are a wonderful person .

Hello LB ,
Thanks for your email.

I get your point. However you must realise many ,many muslims convert to christianity and other religions as well.

I personally know 2 saudi christian women,although they are still recorded as muslims because Saudi govt doesn't recognise conversions and all saudis are supposed to be muslims .

If Islam (or muslim majority countries) permitted people to come out openly about their conversions you would see many going the other way as well.

Lauren is hardly a good example my dear,reading between the lines ,she probably converted to get some sympathy from the oil shiekhs converted in September declared bankruptcy in Dec ). People have different personal problems we can never explain,though they may come out to say things to make others feel good.

Booth appeared at the Islam Channel's Global Peace and Unity event on October 23, 2010, dressed in loose clothing and with a hijab, declaring: "My name is Lauren Booth, and I am a Muslim".She explained that she converted to Islam in mid-September, 2010, after her visit to the Shia Fatima al-Masumeh Shrine, sister of eighth Shia Imam Ali Al Rida in Qom, Iran.

Personal bankruptcy In December 2010, Booth filed for bankruptcy. Among other things, her ­insolvency means she will have ­difficulty using a credit card, she cannot be a company director for up to 15 years, cannot run a ­company, is forbidden to stand as an MP, and there may even be problems over her bank account.One of her creditors is her half-sister, Cherie Blair.

And yvonne was kidnapped by the Taliban

Ever heard of the 'Stockholm Syndrome' ??

This is not to say people will not convert for reasons of piety (or perceived piety). The point Im making is that we should not automatically attribute the conversion of previously godless people to Islam as a sign that Islam is good or bad for women.

People accept faiths based on personal conviction and circumstances.