I was in Yoruba land on my last visit to Nigeria and saw a whole bunch of folks with those scary looking marks on there faces, I thought those kinds of barbaric acts were banned a long time ago. Why in God's name would anyone in there right mind subject themselves to much mutiny?

You never see something yet! Na their culture; so lef am for them!

I realize it's the culture, but what are the markings for ?

When westerners do it, you say "some nice tattoos you got there "

If Africans do it, you go " You look scary ! Oh my God you must be a barbarian"

Has it ever crossed your mind that some people may consider circumcision, which is a part of your Igbo culture ( I am also Igbo) as Barbaric genital mutilation ?

I wander what you hope to achieve by posting this "your latest discovery" here. Are you guys not tired of all the
racial incitement and derogatory comments you have been making here ? Na waa for unu.

FACE:

When westerners do it, you say "some nice tattoos you got there "

If Africans do it, you go " You look scary ! Oh my God you must be a barbarian"

Has it ever crossed your mind that some people may consider circumcision, which is a part of your Igbo culture ( I am also Igbo) as Barbaric genital mutilation ?

I wander what you hope to achieve by posting this "your latest discovery" here. Are you guys not tired of all the
racial incitement and derogatory comments you have been making here ? Na waa for unu.

Biko don't compare the removal of a mans foreskin,a practice most Nigerians including Yorubas,Igbos,all Jews and many other people do to those deep eleven eleven ,ugly grooves on peoples faces.

That act ought to be banned,it is very cruel for a parent to subject a child to such scarifications in the name of culture.
That is no culture,that's pure stupidity and ignorance
As Ignorant and stupid as female genital mutilation carried out by some ignorant parents in the East,west and North of Naija

Tattoos don't even compare.
Most tattos are hidden by clothings but these ugly marks are on faces.

Some Igbos also have small scarifications at the temples,not cute but not very prominent.
Those thick Oyo type with 5 horizontal above 5 vertical ones are unforgivable in this day and age
They need to be made illegal,some adults have to live with the embarrasment of answering questions especially here in the states.

I met a physician the other day,a female with 2 long unsightly deep grooves on both cheeks.
Very preety and intelligent girl that has to live with her parents  dumb "cultural "decision.

@face, u're gettin' d whole thin' wrong? how can u compare tribal marks with tattos? we all know tribal marks are given to a child by his/her parents when d child is born. whoever heard of a parent gettin' their child a tattoo when they're born! tattoo is just a fashion thin' kids grow up to do. And circumcision ain't no igbo culture. it's done all over d world even here in d states in hospitals. My biology teacher told me that circumcision is even a good thin' when a child is born. if it's not done, it could have bad effects on a person. idk where u got it's an igbo culture from.

@poster, idk d significanace but i know it has to do with religious/health beliefs 'cause i know not all yorubas do that to their kids. it's kinda old-school now, though. They believe it protects smone from enemies, stuffs like dat which is superstitious. Even some yorubas make fun of other yorubas with tribal marks. i remember back in naija, dis girl was called "# 11" 'cause she had one on each cheek, lol.

@ Chigo and Babyo, you guys made some good points about tattoos and tribal marks. Tattoos are self inflicted while tribal marks are inflicted on innocent children who have no say in the matter. That was not the correct analogy.

Chiogo, male circumcision has been a part of Igbo culture for as long as Igbos can remember. They practiced it before the influence of Christianity. It may also be part of other people's cultures, but the point I was making was that the people who do not practice circumcision may view it as wicked and barbaric. Circumcision was in practice long before all the medical researches started saying that it may be good after all. May be similar researches on tribal marks may also come up with the merits of tribal marks. (Yeah right! I heard you say).

Babyo, since most people hide their tattoos, how then are you able to tell who has got a tattoo? Do they display badges instead recognising them as tattoo bearing people? The fact is that most tattoos are on full display for all to see. I have seen mask-like tattoos on people’s faces. I have seen people that look like chameleons with all the tattoos on their bodies.

The facial scarification culture may be out of tune with modern times, but that does not mean that it should be classified as "stupid and no culture" I believe that the culture of tribal marks is fast fading as more and more people get less cultural.

I still believe that there was no point in posting this topic as it would only serve to exacerbate the ethnic animosity that already exists here.

FACE:

@ Chigo and Babyo, you guys made some good points about tattoos and tribal marks. Tattoos are self inflicted while tribal marks are inflicted on innocent children who have no say in the matter. That was not the correct analogy.

Chiogo, male circumcision has been a part of Igbo culture for as long as Igbos can remember. They practiced it before the influence of Christianity. It may also be part of other people's cultures, but the point I was making was that the people who do not practice circumcision may view it as wicked and barbaric. Circumcision was in practice long before all the medical researches started saying that it may be good after all. May be similar researches on tribal marks may also come up with the merits of tribal marks. (Yeah right! I heard you say).

Babyo, since most people hide their tattoos, how then are you able to tell who has got a tattoo? Do they display badges instead recognising them as tattoo bearing people? The fact is that most tattoos are on full display for all to see. I have seen mask-like tattoos on people’s faces. I have seen people that look like chameleons with all the tattoos on their bodies.

The facial scarification culture may be out of tune with modern times, but that does not mean that it should be classified as "stupid and no culture" I believe that the culture of tribal marks is fast fading as more and more people get less cultural.

I still believe that there was no point in posting this topic as it would only serve to exacerbate the ethnic animosity that already exists here.

I don't know where you live,truth is that most tattoos can be covered by clothing,most are small and are not the first thing you see when you see the individual.
Many athletes,actors and many professionals here have tattoos but in work clothes,they disappear.
Those chameleons you talk about are bikers,tattoo artists and freaks.

You agreed to the main issue earlier and then did a 180.
It is illegal to give a tattoo to a minor,here in the states.
Most people with these unsightly facial scarifications in Naija get them when they are still latched on their momma's bossom.
That is a huge difference,they didn't ask for such a barbaric identity feature.
It ought to be banned.

The people you saw, why didnt you ask them?

Either way if you really want to learn and not just looking for a way to yarn dust. The former main intention was to show where a person was from in "Yoruba Land" hence the various types of tribal marks considering we were known according to the land and not just the similarity in language.

anyway I dont think it's that common anymore, I hope not anyway though you might find some "conc" traditionalist here and there.

I don't know where you live,truth is that most tattoos can be covered by clothing,most are small and are not the first thing you see when you see the individual.
Many athletes,actors and many professionals here have tattoos but in work clothes,they disappear.
Those chameleons you talk about are bikers, tattoo artists and freaks.

You agreed to the main issue earlier and then did a 180.
It is illegal to give a tattoo to a minor, here in the states.
Most people with these unsightly facial scarifications in Naija get them when they are still latched on their momma's bossom.
That is a huge difference, they didn't ask for such a barbaric identity feature.
It ought to be banned.

Babyosisi.

I did not make any u-turn on my stand on the topic, and I will appreciate if you can point out where I was in support of the topic.

For the sake of clarity, I only conceded that the tattoo analogy was not a suitable one regarding facial marks, but I still stand on my view that the topic will only breed more and more animosity here.

Modifying the heading of the topic would remove any ambiguity as to the real motive of the poster as the Yorubas are not the only group practicing facial scarification in Nigeria.

The manner in which facial scarification is inflicted on infants without their consent is no different from the circumcision of babies “when they are still latched on their momma’s bosom”. Both practices are either cultural or religious and there are people who practice neither.

Those who view circumcision as wicked and barbaric may view your approval of circumcision as primitive. When you point fingers at someone else, you have at the least, three of your own fingers pointing back at you.

Since you agree so much with the topic, can you tell me what will be the useful outcome of discussing the sudden realisation that “ Yorubas still give tribal marks to themselves”?

Regarding those that have tattoos in very prominent areas of their bodies; you are not in a position to classify them as freaks. You have to avoid stereotyping other people without getting to know them on personal levels.

Although most tattoos could be concealed, anybody you can identify as tattoo bearing would have had the tattoo on display at that time for all to see. You can only identify something that needs visual identification by seeing it. To confirm that someone has a tattoo, you have to see it.

Back to the message I tried to covey with my initial response. We all have our prides and also have our flaws. We also have our individual and cultural differences. There is no point in deliberately rubbing the perceived flaws of other people in their faces just because you are aware of them. Issues can be discussed constructively without resorting to any form of prejudice designed to humiliate and hurt other people’s prides.

“Though young men throw stones at frogs in sports, the frogs do not die in sports but in earnest”.

FACE:


Babyosisi.

I did not make any u-turn on my stand on the topic, and I will appreciate if you can point out where I was in support of the topic.

For the sake of clarity, I only conceded that the tattoo analogy was not a suitable one regarding facial marks, but I still stand on my view that the topic will only breed more and more animosity here.

Modifying the heading of the topic would remove any ambiguity as to the real motive of the poster as the Yorubas are not the only group practicing facial scarification in Nigeria.

The manner in which facial scarification is inflicted on infants without their consent is no different from the circumcision of babies “when they are still latched on their momma’s bosom”. Both practices are either cultural or religious and there are people who practice neither.

Those who view circumcision as wicked and barbaric may view your approval of circumcision as primitive. When you point fingers at someone else, you have at the least, three of your own fingers pointing back at you.

Since you agree so much with the topic, can you tell me what will be the useful outcome of discussing the sudden realisation that “ Yorubas still give tribal marks to themselves”?

Regarding those that have tattoos in very prominent areas of their bodies; you are not in a position to classify them as freaks. You have to avoid stereotyping other people without getting to know them on personal levels.
Although most tattoos could be concealed, anybody you can identify as tattoo bearing would have had the tattoo on display at that time for all to see. You can only identify something that needs visual identification by seeing it. To confirm that someone has a tattoo, you have to see it.

Back to the message I tried to covey with my initial response. We all have our prides and also have our flaws. We also have our individual and cultural differences. There is no point in deliberately rubbing the perceived flaws of other people in their faces just because you are aware of them. Issues can be discussed constructively without resorting to any form of prejudice designed to humiliate and hurt other people’s prides.

“Though young men throw stones at frogs in sports, the frogs do not die in sports but in earnest”.

undeserving of a response

ThiefOfHearts:

anyway I don't think it's that common anymore, I hope not anyway though you might find some "conc" traditionalist here and there.

More info. on this subject has been reproduced below:

Tell, Nigeria:

Attahiru Bafarawa, Sokoto State governor, needs little introduction. Aside from his status and attainments in life, one other thing that stands him out is his gobirci, his facial or tribal marks. Usually cut in an uneven style, the prominent craft, similar to an artwork, is an exclusive preserve of the people of Bagobiri, Isah Local Government where Bafarawa’s father is district head.

For Titi Olu-Akinremi, a school teacher in Lagos, nothing is more revealing than the pele (six tribal marks) on her face. Though she lives in Lagos, it is easy to decipher that she is not ‘a daughter of the soil’. A native of Iseyin, Oyo State, the pele on her face is peculiar only to children from the royal family in the town. “It is believed that they wouldn’t want to make the mistake of making a bastard an oba (king), and the easiest way that you can use to distinguish a child of the royal family is by looking  at their faces. "I can understand why my family had it done on me,” Olu-Akinremi said.

In Lokoja, Kogi State, Hussein Abdul, a commercial motorcyclist, is easily lost in the midst of his kinsmen. With eight tribal marks — four on each cheek — Abdul, like most people of his ethnic group, has this unique identity and is comfortable with it. But, whenever he travels out of his community, Abdul is usually the butt of jokes. And the funny thing is that the marks appear like a cat’s whiskers. Interestingly, Abdul insists he is proud of elili, his variety of the tribal marks among the Igala, an ethnic group in the state. “There is nothing to be ashamed of. This is the mark given to every first child of my family. If you don’t have it, then you are a bastard; it is even unthinkable not to have it,” Abdul told the magazine.

Unlike Olu-Akinremi, Naimot Adegbesan, a mother of two, has just two tiny horizontal tribal marks on her face. They are barely noticeable, but Adegbesan who lives in Ibadan, Oyo State, loathes the marks. “I wonder who asked my parents to give me the marks. Even though people say it fits me, my husband, I just can’t come to terms with it,” she told TELL.

While Abdul and Olu-Akinremi proudly wear their marks, Adegbesan, like thousands of other Nigerians, daily curses the ‘misfortune’ of it. This probably is largely as a result of the ridicule people with tribal marks experience daily. Tribal marks, a kind of practice associated with fratricidal wars in ancient times, were used to distinguish members of particular communities. But it has since been adopted as a kind of beautification and identification for different groups and classes of people.

Though a widespread practice all over the world, Nigeria has a rich background in tribal marks or scarification such that, of the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria, only a few blacklist the practice. Interestingly, people with tribal marks are not restricted to a particular economic stratum in the society. They are real people presiding over boardroom meetings, members of the presidential cabinet, banks, mechanic villages and motor parks, among others. Respected Nigerians with tribal marks include President Olusegun Obasanjo, Richard Akinjide, lawyer and Senior Advocate of Nigeria, SAN, Mamman Magoro and Sani Sami, both retired generals. While some have faded with age, some are still bold and just screaming off the face of the hosts.

From the Igala to the Itsekiri, Tiv, Kanuri, Yoruba, Nupe and the Bini (ethnic tribes in Nigeria), tribal marks are an ingrained practice carried out for different reasons. Investigations by the magazine reveal that while there are special designs meant only for the first child of the family, there are some meant exclusively for children from royal families. Yet, there are amazing stories of children who are marked by two fathers because of the contention of the paternity. In this case, the dispute would be ‘settled’ with each ‘father’ putting his family mark on either cheek of the child.

In the North, particularly among the Fulani ethnic group, there is the bille and the chika Baki. Aside from Bagobiri, gobirci is also common among the Argungu and Magoro people of Kebbi State. Like the Bafarawa royal house, the Fakai people in Zuru Emirate council adorn gobirci. Kanberi are between 10 and 11 horizontal marks done exclusively for the Kontagora Emirate council, Niger State. 
But among the ethnic groups noted for tribal marks in Nigeria, the Yoruba, perhaps, stand out most. These marks include pele, gombo, abaja, keke, ture and so on. The abaja is three or four horizontal lines on each cheek, depending on the town in question. The pele is three vertical lines on each cheek, while ture is six on each cheek — three long vertical lines and three short vertical lines. The gombo is, perhaps, the most complicated — four long vertical lines drawn almost from the scalp and curved into four perpendicular lines on each cheek. This type, the magazine gathers, is more common in Oyo State.  For the Ondo, in Ondo State, it is one long vertical line on either cheek.

TELL learnt that almost each city or town in the South-west has a replica of the type of tribal marks from the next town. In their book, Awon Asa ati Orisa Ile Yoruba, Olu Daramola and A. Jeje write that though some towns in the South-west have the same types of tribal marks, the marks are different and can be easily distinguished. 

For instance, the facial mark, pele, of the people of Ila-Orangun, Osun State, is a bit wider than that of Abeokuta. So also is the gombo of the Egba, from Abeokuta, Ogun State, a bit shorter in length from those originating from Oyo town in Oyo State. The pele of the Ijebu, in Ogun State, is shorter and different from that of the Ekiti which is one vertical line on each cheek. The variety of the abaja of the Egba, Ogun State is also different from the usual type. It has three vertical lines sitting on the usual horizontal lines.

However, civilisation and globalisation have reduced the popularity of tribal marks. Notwithstanding the reasons and tradition attached to it then, it is apparent that it is ‘light-outs’ for the practice. For example, some of the respondents with facial marks who spoke with the magazine swore that they would never think of giving facial marks to their children. etc. . . .
Additional report by HARUNA SALAMI

http://www.tellng.com/news/articles/070208-6/news/bob_marks.html

The point being made here, is that different ethnic groups across Nigeria also have indigenes who carry different types of tribal marks.

Two, the practice is fading fast and falling rapidly into disuse;

Three, the tribal marks were mainly used as a means of identification in the past;

Four, the population of those who place such marks on their children has declined a great deal, and the practice, as said before, is no longer common;

Five, it hasn't been a major disadvantage to those who carry it. It hasn't stopped many of them from vying for public office, as can be seen from the list of those mentioned above.

Six, if it bothers anyone who has them, plastic surgery is the last resort for getting them removed.

Seven, those who are bothered about seeing people carrying various forms of tribal marks, need to be reminded that they don't have to look at them. Turn your face away, if it offends you so much!

@FACE,

You made your points eloquently and I see what you mean. It all depends on the perspective of the person, viewing the practice.

babyosisi:

Biko don't compare the removal of a mans foreskin,a practice most Nigerians including Yorubas,Igbos,all Jews and many other people do to those deep eleven eleven ,ugly grooves on peoples faces.

That act ought to be banned,it is very cruel for a parent to subject a child to such scarifications in the name of culture.
That is no culture,that's pure stupidity and ignorance
As Ignorant and stupid as female genital mutilation carried out by some ignorant parents in the East,west and North of Naija

Tattoos don't even compare.
Most tattos are hidden by clothings but these ugly marks are on faces.

Some Igbos also have small scarifications at the temples,not cute but not very prominent.
Those thick Oyo type with 5 horizontal above 5 vertical ones are unforgivable in this day and age
They need to be made illegal,some adults have to live with the embarrasment of answering questions especially here in the states.

WORD!!! I agree 100%!!
Plus, you can NEVER compare tatoos with tribals marks or whatever it's called. First of all, most people who have tatoos do it voluntarily and are usually older before they get. many even get it because they think it's fashionable. these kids that grow up to be adults get these scars not by their own will, but by their parents on decisions. These kids have to go through all that pain just to get unsightly scars which con only be removed or reduced through cosmetic surgery. and who knows if they'll like their appearance when they get older?
IT'S NOT THE SAME PERIOD!!!!
Circumcision and tribal marks are also incomparable. It's not the same!!!! sure, circumcision can be done for religious purposes but it is also done for sanitary reasons too. It is not abnormal or shocking to see a circumcised person is it? if a child was born with a tumor (non-malignant), should the parents allow the child to grow up with it and eventually let the child decide whether s/he wants to get it removed or not?
IT'S NOT THE SAME PERIOD!!!

female circumsion is for sanitary purposes?


anyway what was wrong with Face;s post that is so 'unworthy of a response"


lol funny how people were quick to be annoyed by the osu thread yet the same people are taking such pleasure in this one. Irony.

hunnie, i wasn't talking about female circumcision

Some Nigerian culture practice it either way, how is that not worse than tribal marks?

I was in Yoruba land on my last visit to Nigeria and saw a whole bunch of folks with those scary looking marks on there faces, I thought those kinds of barbaric acts were banned a long time ago. Why in God's name would anyone in there right mind subject themselves to much mutiny?

Barbaric acts?How is that for hyperbole? Sneaky way to take pot shots at Yorubas. .ehn?

What's d mutiny all about? It's 4 identification. And it's proudly Yoruba so y y'all making a non issue out of an issue?
You can as well ask d whites y they subject themselves to the stupid pain of d tattoo

oh so it wasnt just obvious to me and the rest of the forum, Iman?

ThiefOfHearts:

oh so it wasnt just obvious to me and the rest of the forum, Iman?

Its just like the Osu threads.People start threads ostensibly to discuss certain cultural practices of other ethnic groups when the true motive is sardonicism.

ThiefOfHearts:

Some Nigerian culture practice it either way, how is that not worse than tribal marks?

do you mean practice female circumcision? because, i believe i have clearly said i'm not talking about female circumcision. but if your point is to start comparing other "barbaric" acts, then also include stoning people to death and every other thing mentionable. this is not about every other practice, the topic of the thread is tribal marks.  i have made my point, it's plain and simple.

in the end, i don't really care. i'm not yoruba and no one in my family is so i don't have to worry about me or any of my loved ones being subjected to such practices. i've said how i feel about it. it won't change the yoruba "culture". the Yoruba's have chosen to upheld a practice i that they believe in I guess. that's their own thing. i still think it's not right for kids to be put through such agony.

I don't know much about those tribal marks, if anyone has a pic of those marks can they post it for us to see please.

ghettochyk:

.

in the end, i don't really care. i'm not yoruba and no one in my family is so i don't have to worry about me or any of my loved ones being subjected to such practices.

and no one in my family has to go through the agony of "osu-ness", what exactly is the point of this conversation?

someone asked for the significance of the tribal marks, no one cares about what you people think of it


and before you all start crying that osu issues isnt as rampant in Igboland anymore, neither is tribal marks so please spare me.

Iman is right about the intentions of people in this thread, I wish you guys knew you werent fooling anyone.

It is very cowardly of ghettochyk to consider the act 'barbaric'. Afterall, Nigerians are a people, the people have cultures, and the cultures share their beliefs. Some from these cultures (usually yorubas) consider tribal marks to be significant of something(s) (I'll try to find out the "thing(s)" very soon), and until you've done some research to establish your conclusion, in no way should you come out and spit such crap about barbarism. The act itself is most certainly not meant to cause harm(in the cases I know of), and is not performed solely for cruelsome reasons.

ThiefOfHearts:

and no one in my family has to go through the agony of "osu-ness", what exactly is the point of this conversation?

someone asked for the signifance of the tribal marks, no one cares about what you people think of it


and before you all start crying that osu issues isnt as rampant in Igboland anymore, neither is tribal marks so please spare me.

Iman is right about the intentions of people in this thread, I wish you guys knew you werent fooling anyone.

good for you and your family. I can't write a book on Osu but do you even know what Osu is?
I and others have stated what we think about tribal marks and if you don't like it, hit the roof. and sorry to break it to you, but you really don't know as much as you think you do dearie. osu is a little group of people in Igboland. You're born one. you can't label a non-osu an Osu, however, anyone in yorubaland can be VOLUNTARILY defaced with horrible scars becos of culture.

Sometimes I just hate coming to NL, someone started a thread about the significance of the tribal marks and the thread as completely gone off topic.


Still waiting for pictures.

Thiefofhearts, please refrain from further addressing a narrow-minded soul like ghettochyk. Her username speaks volumes about her ignorance.
Actually, do continue discussing with her, otherwise she'd further perpetuate this nonsensical jargon about yoruba tribal marks.

proverbial:

It is very cowardly of ghettochyk to consider the act 'barbaric'.

first of all, you don't know me and it aint goin get you nowhere to act like you do.

2nd off, do you know the meaning od the word "cowardly"? if so, you'd know that you're using it out of context.

just in case you don't know, and i'm sure you don't, a coward is a person who shows fear. what have written dat displays fear?

ghettochyk:

. You're born one. you can't label a non-osu an Osu,

I guess that makes it all better eh?

Lmao  

You guys are mere jesters. Thanks for the laugh.  

Freewilly:

Sometimes I just hate coming to Nairaland, someone started a thread about the significance of the tribal marks and the thread as completely gone off topic.
Still waiting for pictures.

free, watz good?. ok, i'll see if i can find any for you. i saw it for the first time a few years ago when i travelled through lagos.