You're terribly ignorant and like I adviced you before, quit reading books about your culture, go down and experience it for yourself. I know an old customs clearing agent that lives in PH, he's an Ichie, mind you this man is OLD, he has none of those marks.

I already told you the marks you see on Igbos, they're often given when an individual is sick by native doctors. Other than that, I've seen nothing (and believe me, for my age, I've seen ALOT and definitely more than the person who wrote that article you posted! Maybe the "ichie" marks are isolated to some REMOTE Igbo community, doesn't make it something Igbos as a whole practiced.

You are such an embarrassment. Sometimes I like to pretend that you're from Togo or something. Is there any thread where you don't end up being the butt of the joke?

Pitiful.

TerraCotta:

She is .

Donzman always tries to use his own perspective & his own experience, as the sole determinant of every other person's reality. If you go through his posts, you will find the same pattern runs through most of them. (i.e. just because he hasn't seen something, means that 'thing,' is invalid). It doesn't matter if others have seen that thing, or experienced it. The chap writes & speaks as if his views are the only standard, which everyone must follow

It's because he's an arrogant slowpoke. He acts like he's 90 years old. It's hilarious that a mere boy in his early 20s is talking like he's been living in "Nigeria" for 300 years. _{Btw thanks for the compliment jare}

Reading his posts sometimes makes me want to gouge my eyes out. 

pele pele maa sukun mo

That's how you and your other ridiculous crew was going on about how you don't have naming ceramonies but christenings. Please tell me what exactly it is you guys did before Christianity came to Nigeria? Abi they didnt have childen around that time in your land? Were they waiting for the missionaries before they had children? or maybe you didnt name kids and rather just gave them a number to identify themselves?

You've yet to answer this question for me, Donzie

We did not have naming CEREMONIES, how is that hard to fanthom? You just assume everyone's culture has to be like yours?

I have little cousins who were NOT christened because their dad wasn't a christian, neither did they have any naming CEREMONY. Anyone who has lived in Lagos or Yorubaland knows what a naming ceremony is (when you want to go by a road and they ask you to divert, yes that is it).

When I was born, I got my name from parents, my grandma from both sides gave me names from a distance, there were no ceremonies, why is that hard for you to accept?. . .That others might be different?  You people are bewildering to say the least!

Donzman:

We did not have naming CEREMONIES, how is that hard to fanthom? You just assume everyone's culture has to be like yours?

I have little cousins who were NOT christened because their dad wasn't a christian, neither did they have any naming CEREMONY. Anyone who has lived in Lagos or Yorubaland knows what a naming ceremony is (when you want to go by a road and they ask you to divert, yes that is it).

When I was born, I got my name from parents, my grandma from both sides gave me names from a distance, there were no ceremonies, why is that hard for you to accept?. . .That others might be different? You people are bewildering to say the least!

TOH,stop asking questions when you already have your answers.
If in your imagination,Igbos had "naming ceremony" before the missionaries came,are the missionaries yet to arrive Yoruba land?
Why do you still have them? this question needs an answer!

we do not name our children in a ceremony.
It is not our culture.

Just like a celebration is done to commemorate a death at the demise of someone,women gather and dance and food is cooked to welcome a new baby.
We do not call it a naming ceremony.
Igbo had never had a culture where a baby is named at this ceremony both now or anytime in the past.
Why you choose to hammer at this topic and name it what it is not,in order to suit your purposes is what beats me.

If you see any Igbo person print cards and invite you to a naming ceremony,he is merely copying a culture that is not his.

Osu Caste In Igboland
By Jude Ossai

Gov. Chimaroke NnamaniGEOGRAPHICALLY, the Igbo people across the east of the River Niger occupy the forest belt area between the Cross River east of the Niger and Benin West of the Niger and between the Igala to the North and the Niger Delta region to the South. Professor Thurstan Shaw in his archaeological findings in Igbo-Ukwu, a town in the present Anambra State, revealed that some ancient Igbos settled in the area earlier than 9th century AD. This throws light on the origin of the Igbo people.


According to the late 20th century census, the population of Ndigbo stood at 27.1 million. The majority of Igbos are Christians, but some of them practise the indigenous traditional religion.The traditionalists believe in the earth goddess, deities and ancestral spirits and in a supreme being called Chukwu, Obasi, Chi (God). Just as the origin of the Igbos remains controversial among historians, the exact date the Osu caste system began in Igbo land is equally in dispute. In most indigenous Igbo communities, shrines where the family’s ancestral spirits resided and communed with the living, are maintained. This category of the deities is almost like institutions. The deities were attended to by highly respected priests and assistants who were engaged in serving the spiritual needs of visitors who come to commune with the shrines.


Records show that about six centuries ago, there was increase in the growth of powerful deities that led to the need for more hands in working at the shrines. The “indigenous monks” upon learning the act to worship the gods were just and erroneously labeled Osu, Ume, or Ohu arusi (slave of the deities/gods or shrines). The relic of the indigenous religions of the Igbo people called Osu caste system varied in names. It is referred to as Achi-Ebo in Nzam in Onitsha while in Nsukka area, it is known as Oruma. It is also called Nwani or Ohualusi at Agwu area. These names – Osu, Ume, Ohu, Oru, Ohu Ume, Omoni(Okpu Aja)–have the same connotation in Igboland.


Saturday Tribune investigations revealed that those referred to by the names mentioned are regarded as sub-human beings, the unclean class, or slaves by the people who called themselves Diala (free born). In a paper presented to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) in August 2002 by one Victor Dike, titled: “Working globally against discrimination by work and descent”, he described the Osu caste system as a societal institution borne out of a primitive traditional belief system coloured by superstition and propagated by ignorance. The Osu, the author argued, is a people sacrificed to the gods in Igboland and they assist the high priest of the traditional religion to serve the deities or gods in their shrines.


There is another oral tale coloured by misconception, saying how a man who was chosen by a community was eventually picked to perform the task of serving the gods. The descendants of the man from that day inherited the status of Osu. Further checks show that many Igbo people, nowadays, shy away from discussing the obnoxious traditional belief largely due to the fact that the system has not only outlived its usefulness but is also uncivil. Indeed, the Osu caste system, which is a form of discrimination, has caused inter-communal clashes and wars between the Osu and the Diala in Igboland. For instance, the people of Umuode in Nkanu-East Local Government Area of Enugu State, who were said to be descendants of the Osu, are being treated as second class citizens.

Sadly enough, victims of the Osu caste system, even those at high places, appear to be helpless, as they have no legal recourse in Igboland. It was gathered that in Oruku community made up of three clans, namely, Umuode, Umuchiani and Onuogowu, the people of Umuode have limited social interaction with the rest of the community because of their ascribed Osu status. In fact, the system involves inequality of movement and choice of residence, inequality in the right of peaceful association, marriage and establishing a family. An incident that occurred at Oruku community in 1995 was barbaric enough to attract attention to the area as youths from two clans in the area that claimed to be freeborn disrupted the reception organized in honour of a world acclaimed professor of robotic engineering, Bath Nnaji, who flew into the country from United States to take up an exalted ministerial position as the Secretary of Science and Technology under the Chief Ernest Shonekon interim government.


Investigations revealed that the two villages at Oruku community do not inter-marry with people of Umuode. It was learnt that irrespective of Osu’s social status in the community, the local churches hardly appoint them to the positions of responsibility. A staff of the Federal Ministry of Information, Enugu who preferred anonymity told ST that the degree of ostracism is so high in Oruku that the state government had to build a separate area for the victims, adding that any person from freeborn villages that talks or greets a person from Umuode clan stands to pay a fine as much as N1,000.

To further highlight the savage practice of Osu caste system, the people of Umuode create their own market quite different from the Eke Oruku market, owned exclusively by Umuchiani and Onuogowo clans. Comrade Njoku Emeka, a law student at the University of Nigeria, Enugu Campus (UNEC) and founder of Change Initiative Agent, a non-governmental organization in Enugu, said “if we try to relate the issue pertaining to caste system to contemporary Nigeria, it seems as if it is drift or disparity between what the constitution says and peoples custom. “In Igboland, the Osu caste system has come to stay in the sense that it is silent. It operates within the sub-conscious of the people. It operates within the people willingly and it is not pronounced. You do not see it or touch it”


Citing an instance in Imo State , specifically in Isi Ala Mbano of the state, Emeka said “It is evident that they do not inter-marry even as they live together as neighbours. So, the worrisome aspect of it all is their conjugal rejection. Some go as far as claiming ownership over the Osus. It is common to hear of “Ndia bu ndi Osu anyi” meaning these are our own slaves. He disclosed that the freeborn see the Osus as property that should be owned, adding that the implication is that the people referred to as Osu in Igboland do not attain “Ezeship”, that is kingship, in some parts of Igboland.


Findings revealed that in Amufie village in Enugu Ezike, Enugu State, an Osu is not allowed to ascend the throne of an “Onyishi” a position kept sacred for the eldest man in the community. In Alor Agu community near Nsukka, also in Enugu State, a deity called “Adere’ is feared by the people as the god is said to be powerful. To appease the deity, “offending person or family offers animals including human beings to the gods” willingly. Three years ago, a woman evangelist (now deceased) took it as a task to destroy some shrines in Nsukka area with a view to putting to an end the worship of idols in the land. The lady, whose name was simply given as Ngozi Aro, reportedly died in the struggle.


Historical records also have it that late Nnamdi Azikiwe fought vehemently against the Osu caste system as he told members of the defunct Eastern House of Assembly on March 20, 1956 that, “it is devilish and most uncharitable to brand any human being with a label of inferiority, due to the accidents of history”. While seconding the motion for the second reading of the abolition of the Osu caste system, the late Owelle of Onitsha noted, “The objects and reasons for the bill are humanitarian and altruistic.” According to Zik, “The bill seeks to abolish the Osu system and its allied practices including the Oru or Ohu system, to prescribe punishment for their continued practice, and to remove certain social disabilities caused by the enforcement of the Osu and its allied system.

“I will not join in the encouragement of a system of society where one stratum can superciliously claim to be descended from the best brain and would therefore consign the others to a scrap heap of their own invention and ostracize them socially”, he added. But, why has Osu caste system continued to exist in Igboland despite the fact that it was abolished by the Zik government? Are the proponents of the Osu caste ignorant of the Abolition of Slavery Act of 1806 and the Magna Carta of 1215? To non-Igbos, the story that an Igbo stock is treated as a social pariah in Igboland sounds strange, particularly in the 21st century. Even during the late Dr Sam Mbakwe government in Imo State, the civilian regime of Nigeria Peoples Party ( NPP) banned the Osu caste system but the law did not prevent the existence of the savage custom.

Defiant as some could be, a spinster from Enugu State, who simply gave her name as Nkechi, said she would never marry an Osu even at gun point, stressing that she preferred remaining single to living with an Osu as husband and wife. “I do not care if I remain single all my life instead of me marrying an Osu. I cannot stand the humiliation in my village. No matter how wealthy an Osu could be, I will not marry him. It is an abomination in my village to go out with Osu as friends, how much more to talk of going to the altar with him”, she stated. As a matter of fact, eastern government at various times in the past had tried to use legislation and sometimes, coercion, to abolish the Osu caste system. Apart from the Mbakwe regime, late Air Commodore Emeka Omeruah while serving as the military governor of old Anambra State moved against the Efuru deities in Ukehe in Igbo-etiti Local Government Area, destroying the shrines with bulldozer.

But the irony of it all is that the people referred to as Osu flourish in business and politics to the extent that some of them occupy exalted positions in government as governors, commissioners and permanent secretaries, to mention but a few. Interestingly, in Arochukwu, the traditional base of the slave merchants of the old, the issue of Osu caste system is not well pronounced as both the Amadis (freeborn) and the non-Amadis (settlers) inter-marry and live together. Mr. Chris Oji, a journalist, said that Aros, however, only allow Amadis to be in-charge of their ancestral deity at Arochukwu known as “Ibinukpabi” otherwise called “Long juju” by the white man.

According to Oji, the Aros during the slave trade went into the evil forest at Arochukwu to “liberate” the Osus who were thrown away to die for alleged capital offence. They were subsequently sold into slavery. “ The intelligent ones were sent back to their communities and planted as surrogates to serve the interest of the Aros, especially in slave trading. Today, the Aros are scattered all over the eastern states and even beyond the Igbo enclave”, he added. ST learnt that many traditional rulers in Igbo land also shy away from discussing openly the issue of Osu caste system as they regard it as a matter that could create disaffection in their domains.

A paramount ruler in Enugu-Ezike, Igwe Simeon Itodo, who did not talk much on the caste system, told ST that Osu system should be rejected and cast to the dust bin of history as all men are equal before God. Barrister Celestine Abugu, a law teacher at the University of Abuja, wondered why wherever issues of segregation around the world are discussed at international level, the Osu caste system in Igboland is never mentioned. Abugu who hails from Amachalla, Enugu-Ezike in Igbo-eze Local Government Area of Enugu State, described the Osu caste system as not only dehumanizing but outdated and should be discarded by every right thinking member of the society.

Will the indigenous traditionalists allow the Osu caste system give room to a civilized way of life? The Igbo traditional beliefs, no doubt, have some positive influence on the culture and social lives of the people, but, the truth is that Ndigbo needs a rebirth in this millennium.

I remember growing up in Igboland,my mom's women group of our hometown meeting will decide on a day to pay a visit to a new mom.
They'll buy gifts,show up in their uniform,dance,pray,eat stock fish,Ugba and yam peppersoup.
This is a purely women affair,no invited guests besides the women group.
Perhaps this is what TOH and her friends want to laud over us as a naming ceremony,it is not,it is purely a visitation.
No names were ever given here, not now,not anytime in the past.

I also remember my grandmother and great aunts in the village on hearing that a baby was born into the family,break out into some perculiar songs and dance,rub white native chalk (Nzu) on their necks and chest.
I have never heard of them attending a naming ceremony
To visit a new mother ,yes,to witness a baby named,nada.

;d ;d ;d

I dont know why anybody should have contribute to this thread because all parts of Nigeria has one or more type of tribal marks including the Igbos and Hausas. So why all the fuss?

back to the topic.
Significance was cultural but it is child abuse,thank God there are now laws against it.

champredd:

I don't know why anybody should have contribute to this thread because all parts of Nigeria has one or more type of tribal marks including the Igbos and Hausas. So why all the fuss?

please post pictures of Igbo,Ibibio,Ijaw,anang and efik tribal marks for all to see.
And I don't mean this in a bad way.
A picture they say,is worth a thousand words.

Ala – the earth-goddess, the spirit of fertility (of man and the productivity of the land).

Igwe – the sky-god. This god was not appealed to for rain however, that was the full-time profession of the rain-makers, Igbo tribesmen who were thought to be able to call and dismiss rain.

Imo miri – the spirit of the river. The Igbo believe that a big river has a spiritual aspect; it is forbidden to fish in such deified rivers.

Mbatuku– the spirit of wealth.

Agwo – a spirit envious of other’s wealth, always in need of servitors.

Aha njuku or Ifejioku – the yam spirit.

Ikoro – the drum spirit.

Ekwu – the hearth spirit, which is woman’s domestic spirit.

@FACE,

I did not make any u-turn on my stand on the topic, and I will appreciate if you can point out where I was in support of the topic.
For the sake of clarity, I only conceded that the tattoo analogy was not a suitable one regarding facial marks, but I still stand on my view that the topic will only breed more and more animosity here.
Modifying the heading of the topic would remove any ambiguity as to the real motive of the poster as the Yorubas are not the only group practicing facial scarification in Nigeria.
The manner in which facial scarification is inflicted on infants without their consent is no different from the circumcision of babies “when they are still latched on their momma’s bosom”. Both practices are either cultural or religious and there are people who practice neither.
Those who view circumcision as wicked and barbaric may view your approval of circumcision as primitive. When you point fingers at someone else, you have at the least, three of your own fingers pointing back at you.
Since you agree so much with the topic, can you tell me what will be the useful outcome of discussing the sudden realisation that “ Yorubas still give tribal marks to themselves”?
Regarding those that have tattoos in very prominent areas of their bodies; you are not in a position to classify them as freaks. You have to avoid stereotyping other people without getting to know them on personal levels.
Although most tattoos could be concealed, anybody you can identify as tattoo bearing would have had the tattoo on display at that time for all to see. You can only identify something that needs visual identification by seeing it. To confirm that someone has a tattoo, you have to see it.
Back to the message I tried to covey with my initial response. We all have our prides and also have our flaws. We also have our individual and cultural differences. There is no point in deliberately rubbing the perceived flaws of other people in their faces just because you are aware of them. Issues can be discussed constructively without resorting to any form of prejudice designed to humiliate and hurt other people’s prides.
“Though young men throw stones at frogs in sports, the frogs do not die in sports but in earnest”.

I couldn't agree more with your persuasuion. And by the way, those who think 'circumcision' isn't mutilation just because it is acceptable to a lot more people are just turning logic on its head. In both cases of tribal marks and circumcision, physical harm is done to a child without his/her consent.
And just like tribal marks in Nigeria, circumcision is becoming less popular in Europe and America. German hospitals don't even offer the services anymore and they consider it babaric for anyone to circumcise their kids. In the U.S., insurance companies are weighing the option of paying for circumcision becuase of the aversion to it by a section of the public. These I know as facts!

Na only yoruba get the tribal marks for nigeria abi why you single them out?wetn happen to other tribes wey get tribal marks,we love our tribal marks so biko leave us alone abi we complain to you.If you have anythn against the yorubas just say it or shut your trap.

TayoD:

@FACE,
I couldn't agree more with your persuasuion. And by the way, those who think 'circumcision' isn't mutilation just because it is acceptable to a lot more people are just turning logic on its head. In both cases of tribal marks and circumcision, physical harm is done to a child without his/her consent.
And just like tribal marks in Nigeria, circumcision is becoming less popular in Europe and America. German hospitals don't even offer the services anymore and they consider it babaric for anyone to circumcise their kids. In the US., insurance companies are weighing the option of paying for circumcision becuase of the aversion to it by a section of the public. These I know as facts!

Tayod,does circumcision of a male child harm him physically?
is it very necessary to circumcise?


Are you by your argument saying those facial scarifications should not be condemned?

and why are you using Germany as a yardstick in your circumcision argument.
They have also legalised gay marriage and criminalised good old spanking,should we?

Prominent Hausas e.g IBB, Abacha, go check their pics

Igbos typically put their marks at the side of their eyes.

Mohadana, this is not the 'osu' thread. Neither is it a thread for discussing pre-colonial traditional religion. So please stop diverting attention from the topic.

More info. on giving names to Igbo babies can be gotten from this journal:

Names and naming: Instances from the ORU-IGBO by Sabine Jell-Bahlsen
Journal of Dialectical Anthropology
Publisher: Springer Netherlands
ISSN : 0304-4092 (Print) 1573-0786 (Online)
Issue: Volume 13, Number 2 / June, 1988

laudate:

More info. on giving names to Igbo babies can be gotten from this journal:

Names and naming: Instances from the ORU-IGBO by Sabine Jell-Bahlsen
Journal of Dialectical Anthropology
Publisher: Springer Netherlands
ISSN : 0304-4092 (Print) 1573-0786 (Online)
Issue: Volume 13, Number 2 / June, 1988

and of what significance is this one here?
mgbo laudate?

I think it looks good. but like tatoos, it should be a decision made by the person. I dont like it when parents decide to do it to kids. My mom has one that is barely visible, she got it herself when she was sixteen.

it's inherited from BABA NLA BABA WON, so no dey laugh them

n-guage:

I think it looks good. but like tatoos, it should be a decision made by the person. I don't like it when parents decide to do it to kids. My mom has one that is barely visible, she got it herself when she was sixteen.

you call this good?
what is bad then?

if they are barely visible,why did she get them?@ n-guage
for what purpose?
It's like getting a barely visible tattoo,why bother when it can barely be seen?

lol, this topic still exists. What is it i hear folks sayin'? pls, I've never seen any other tribe with marks on their faces. Not that anythin' is wrong with it but stick to the issue. Only yoruba pple have tribal marks.

@babyosisi,

Tayod,does circumcision of a male child harm him physically?

Of course it harms the baby. You needed to see my two boys screaming and crying when they were circumcised, and they were only a few days old. Infact my younger son was just a day old when we had him circumcised.

Is it very necessary to circumcise?

No it's not just as it is not necessary to have tribal marks. The jews circumcise their kids based on a religious tradition, while other people including yorubas use tribal marks for verious traditonal reasons.

Are you by your argument saying those facial scarifications should not be condemned?

What harm has been done by the marks? I have no tribal marks but I was circumcised. Either way, my consent was not sought and neither decision has turned my world upside down.

@Chiogo,

Only yoruba people have tribal marks.

How ignorant can one be?

Some northerners have designs on their faces,I have seen some Igbos with 2 small marks at the temples from native healers  but no other group has  the deep "groovy" scars like the baba agba I posted above.
It is not so common anymore on children,than God.

TayoD:

@babyosisi,
Of course it harms the baby. You needed to see my two boys screaming and crying when they were circumcised, and they were only a few days old. Infact my younger son was just a day old when we had him circumcised.
No it's not just as it is not necessary to have tribal marks. The jews circumcise their kids based on a religious tradition, while other people including yorubas use tribal marks for verious traditonal reasons.
What harm has been done by the marks? I have no tribal marks but I was circumcised. Either way, my consent was not sought and neither decision has turned my world upside down.

I'm sure they also cry when they are given a bath,have you stopped bathing them?
Crying is a part of human nature.

How would you feel if you had a face like the baba above?
would you wish you never had them?

TayoD:

@Chiogo,
How ignorant can one be?

lmao, u too, hon.am just sayin' what i know. ok, maybe other tribes but not igbos.
So, u guys know it hurts a child, yet u do it. I once read this book where two yoruba couples got married. The husband's family were bent on givin' d child a tribal mark. The bride resented this sayin' that she doesn't want her daughter's "pretty face to be scarred" and that pple wld make fun of her when she's grown. Her husband wasn't in support of the tribal mark but he had to obey his family. At the end of the day, d baby was given the tribal mark and she started convulsing and died. so, it does have side effects. Like i said earlier, it's now old-school but it'd be crazy to see anyone still doin' it to their  babies.

As far as i am concerned, Its like a tatoo. It use to be a fashionable thing.  Tatoos are stupid to those who dont like it, and it is cool with those who like it.
It is all personal.
''If white man do am, all of una go dey shine eye''