I really wish that the igbos had succeeded in becoming the biafrans because they would have been better off that what is going on now. It's easy for many people who know nothing about the war to point fingers towards the igbos but without opening their eyes to see that nothing good has come out of that country ever since that war. I really believe that if the igbos had succeeded in separating themselves from Nigeria (becoming the biafrans), biafra today would have been far better than Nigeria. Take a look at the histroy and see what the so called leaders are doing to the country. I mean after what Banbangida did to the country, Obasanjo still had the guts to give him an award. For what? For beaning the biggest thief or what? Anyway I don't blame you blind people who don't see the ugly things their people are doing but only what the Igbo's are doing. Please people leaves us (the Igbos) alone. It is not our fault that we are the most ambitious and educated people in that country. Just maybe if you the non-igbos will swallow your pride and come to us, maybe just maybe we can teach you guys some stuff.

Wishy wishy wish. Keep on wishing.

RichyBlacK:

@Ono
You seem to place a lot of emphasis on crude oil, as if that's the holy grail of development. Look at this issue globally, Japan (not a crude oil heavy weight) has 13 times the GDP and 2.5 times the GDP per capita of Saudi Arabia (260.1 billion barrels of oil reserves - about 24% of the world's proven total petroleum reserves). Having crude oil does not guarantee that every child that falls sick will get adequate health care, or that the schools will be well funded, or that basic amenities like power, good roads, etc. will be available. Nigeria is a good case study; with all the crude oil we have, how has it made life better for the average Nigerian? Though natural resources played a role in the Biafran War, the main reason for the war was survival. I see the war as a statement of survival. War has ended, Igbos have learnt a lesson or two, and they are doing an excellent job in surviving.

Today, decades after the Biafran War, the people of the Niger Delta are (still) being dispossessed of the resources (that you attach inordinate value to). As far as I'm concerned this (the plundering) is atrocious, however, if the thinking of the present leaders of the Niger Delta is anything remotely close to yours (I make no claim on your background), then the problems of the ND region will only persist, unfortunately.

The problem with you guys is that you all like going out of context. The crux of this discussion, if I'm not wrong, is the Reasons for The Biafran War, which took place in the late 60s- early 70s. We're trying to get the reasons why Nigeria went to War with the Igbos at the time. We're not talking here about Igbos, Hausas or Yorubas potential as at today. Why don't you just face up to the issue on discourse and lets reason them out?

And I can say that, part of the reasons why you guys became so ''strong'' in every sphere of human ''endeavour'' is because you learnt quite a lot from that War. Nigeria did learn a lot too, though.

Donzman:

What the hell?. . .Biafra was fought because of oil? We have people replying this retard!

Na you be retard. Yeye man.

.

I must say, despite the fact that people fought for their survival, the Biafran war was originally instigated by and fought France and for Total Petroleum.

I'm really sorry to say this.

@Ono,
you said:

The problem with you guys is that you all like going out of context. The crux of this discussion, if I'm not wrong, is the Reasons for The Biafran War, which took place in the late 60s- early 70s. We're trying to get the reasons why Nigeria went to War with the Igbos at the time. We're not talking here about Igbos, Hausas or Yorubas potential as at today. Why don't you just face up to the issue on discourse and lets reason them out?

Either you are very p[oor student of history or you are just being mischievous. How could you say or any other person for that matter to say that the Nigerian Civil War was fought because of crude oil? THAT IS VERY VERY WARPED. Instead the foriegn governments that supported either Nigerian troops or the Biafran troops had motives behind it. Britain preferred Nigeria to be united so that she can maximise her neocolonialist policies. So was France. So try and read up and stop engaging in intellectual mastrubation.

Planner:

@Ono,
you said:

Either you are very p[oor student of history or you are just being mischievous. How could you say or any other person for that matter to say that the Nigerian Civil War was fought because of crude oil? THAT IS VERY VERY WARPED. Instead the foriegn governments that supported either Nigerian troops or the Biafran troops had motives behind it. Britain preferred Nigeria to be united so that she can maximise her neocolonialist policies. So was France. So try and read up and stop engaging in intellectual mastrubation.

See, there's no need for mudslinging here. I do not know you from Adams. This forum merely enables people to hide behind a computer and type whatever they like. And when knowledgeable people talk - as it is in this political section of the forum (not all the time though) I expect the utmost sense of responsiblity, decorum, respect and clarity. You need to bring yourself to that level, so that we can both reason together. And if my terms are too much for you to bare, please try someone else.

You never said anything about Frenchmen and their armies until now. You brought this up, cause Denex said something about it.

Whatever addition there is to the Nigerian Civil War (Biafran War), the truth is that the Igbos in particular, created the fertile ground for that war to thrive. It's possible you guys went into some form of alliance with France (Ojukwu being the arrow head at the time), with the intention of sharing the proceeds from crude sales from the delta. And since the Igbos generally lost out, that deal came out bad.

Ono

Someone thinks you are a bad student of history, I dont think so. I think you are plane misguided and stupid. Sometimes I wonder if you are a 5 year old kid. Some people gave Your forefathers other people's properties which they aquired through hard work in exchange for your so-called birthright (oil). 47years latter you dont control your oil, you have sold most of those properties out of hunger, yet you have no peace in your hometown.

Instead of regretting your forefathers cowardice and mortgaging your future just for peanuts which accounts for the crisis in your region today you come here typing loads of rubbish.

If Nigeria decides to have a debate today for local control of resources in the NASS, the Igbo senators will be the first to vote for it.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself that 47years after your fathers betrayed you, you are betraying yourself.

McKren:

Ono

Someone thinks you are a bad student of history, I don't think so. I think you are plane misguided and stupid. Sometimes I wonder if you are a 5 year old kid. Some people gave Your forefathers other people's properties which they aquired through hard work in exchange for your so-called birthright (oil). 47years latter you don't control your oil, you have sold most of those properties out of hunger, yet you have no peace in your hometown.

Instead of regretting your forefathers cowardice and mortgaging your future just for peanuts which accounts for the crisis in your region today you come here typing loads of rubbish.

If Nigeria decides to have a debate today for local control of resources in the NASS, the Igbo senators will be the first to vote for it.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself that 47years after your fathers betrayed you, you are betraying yourself.

I have said it, at least on this thread, that we're not discussing Niger Delta here. There are several other threads you can latch up to and say whatever you like there.

Anyways, true, our forefathers sold their birthright. No doubt about that. But your forefathers, led you to a needless war, where you lost out woefully, with millions of your people killed like cockroaches and rats. But for the intervention of well meaning countries and individuals alike, your type and generation would not be here talking today. You probably would have been killed with your parents, while you're still in his prick or womb.

You come here to tell the world that you fought for dignity, pride and other bullcrap, when we all know that it's your forefather's greed to amass wealth that does not belong to them to themselves that led to a war that would have resulted to the complete annihilation of your ethnic group.

Today, your type cannot become the president of this country. All of your efforts continue leading you backwards in the scheme of things. You're even regarded as third-class citizens. Now tell me, what could be worst than this?


Sincere apologie to my good Igbo friends, but I need to put this McKren where he belongs - in the trash can.

ono:

I have said it, at least on this thread, that we're not discussing Niger Delta here. There are several other threads you can latch up to and say whatever you like there.

Anyways, true, our forefathers sold their birthright. No doubt about that. But your forefathers, led you to a needless war, where you lost out woefully, with millions of your people killed like cockroaches and rats. But for the intervention of well meaning countries and individuals alike, your type and generation would not be here talking today. You probably would have been killed with your parents, while you're still in his prick or womb.

You come here to tell the world that you fought for dignity, pride and other bullcrap, when we all know that it's your forefather's greed to amass wealth that does not belong to them to themselves that led to a war that would have resulted to the complete annihilation of your ethnic group.

Today, your type cannot become the president of this country. All of your efforts continue leading you backwards in the scheme of things. You're even regarded as third-class citizens. Now tell me, what could be worst than this?


Sincere apologie to my good Igbo friends, but I need to put this McKren where he belongs - in the trash can.

Great he is honest enough to admit his fathers sold his birthright, mine stood for my right,   in case you don't know the answer to the question when you go home ask someone who should be more informed to advice you who should be ashamed of their past.

If we were'nt living in a more civilized and global world the thieves you are arming to kidnap people for ransom would have been crushed like the thieves they are.

You have no shame that is why you come here to type trash.

My type can not be Nigerian President, who says am interested ?? What will I do with it?? If that is your dream for not learning from the failures of your fathers it is not mine. I believe in equity and fairness not cowardice.

When increment in derivation was debated in the NASS, the South-East senators where the closest allies to those of South-South, when Onshore-offshore dichotomy was debated it was same, in the run up to the last election the likes of Iwuanyawu and loads of South-East politicians were front line supporters of South-South Presidency yet you are not satisfied.

Your pass times is to abuse the same people who support your course regardless of betrayals from your forefathers.

You talk crap about oil, we are self sufficient. We have oil and loads of other resources to depend on. You will plot and blackmail the Igbos for another 47years yet you will not achieve anything.

Shameless fool, your heroes have turned from armed robbers to peadophiles yet you come here to talk. They kidnap even their own toddlers when they lack money. Who knows a better definition of greed and desperation.

McKren:

Shameless fool, your heroes have turned from armed robbers to peadophiles yet you come here to talk. They kidnap even their own toddlers when they lack money. Who knows a better definition of greed and desperation[/b].

LOL!!!

I will not reply you (Mckren) on this issue again. I am not known for making rash comments on this forum, and whoever I have offended by my last post should please accept my sincere apologies. It's just a forum, air your views. Live and lets live.

Ono

You directly have my appologies if only you realise that we are partners in wishing a better tomorrow for southerners and Nigerians. Stop hating the Igbos, we have oil too and their is no way we will chase yours.

Appologies man but grow up that is all I ask of you.

ono:

I have said it, at least on this thread, that we're not discussing Niger Delta here. There are several other threads you can latch up to and say whatever you like there.

Anyways, true, our forefathers sold their birthright. No doubt about that. But your forefathers, led you to a needless war, where you lost out woefully, with millions of your people killed like cockroaches and rats. But for the intervention of well meaning countries and individuals alike, your type and generation would not be here talking today. You probably would have been killed with your parents, while you're still in his prick or womb.

You come here to tell the world that you fought for dignity, pride and other bullcrap, when we all know that it's your forefather's greed to amass wealth that does not belong to them to themselves that led to a war that would have resulted to the complete annihilation of your ethnic group.

Today, your type cannot become the president of this country. All of your efforts continue leading you backwards in the scheme of things. You're even regarded as third-class citizens. Now tell me, what could be worst than this?


Sincere apologie to my good Igbo friends, but I need to put this McKren where he belongs - in the trash can.

Ono, this post shows that deep in your heart, the thought of all the innocent people (including women and children) that were killed during Biafran War, gives you immense pleasure, that you're saddened that all the Igbos were not killed, that the Igbos were not wiped out. It also points to you being maximally satisfied at the continued marginalization of the Igbos in Nigeria. Very sad!

I recall when Ken Saro-Wiwa was on trial under Abacha. I was always speaking on his behalf and greatly saddened that Abacha finally executed him. I believed his struggle was just. Then, some of my friends, especially the Igbos, did not share my sympathy towards Ken-Saro-Wiwa, and said he deserved what was coming to him (he hadn't been killed then). I always argued passionately that two wrongs don't make a right, that irrespective of what he did in the past, he deserved a fair trial.

Now, after seeing the post by Ono, I'm beginning to think whether I should reconsider my views - maybe executing Ken Saro-Wiwa was fine; maybe the leveling of Odi was fine; maybe the continual rape of the resources of the Niger-Delta is okay; maybe the militants should continue their exploits in the ND area so as to give the government reasons to annihilate more villages like Odi.

The above post by Ono, unfortunately, brings to the fore the negative sentiments that some Nigerians have of the Igbos.

May God forgive Ono for tacitly advancing genocide, for championing inequality and oppression, and for laughing at the dead!

RichyBlacK:

Ono, this post shows that deep in your heart, the thought of all the innocent people (including women and children) that were killed during Biafran War, gives you immense pleasure, that you're saddened that all the Igbos were not killed, that the Igbos were not wiped out. It also points to you being maximally satisfied at the continued marginalization of the Igbos in Nigeria. Very sad!

I recall when Ken Saro-Wiwa was on trial under Abacha. I was always speaking on his behalf and greatly saddened that Abacha finally executed him. I believed his struggle was just. Then, some of my friends, especially the Igbos, did not share my sympathy towards Ken-Saro-Wiwa, and said he deserved what was coming to him (he hadn't been killed then). I always argued passionately that two wrongs don't make a right, that irrespective of what he did in the past, he deserved a fair trial.

Now, after seeing the post by Ono, I'm beginning to think whether I should reconsider my views - maybe executing Ken Saro-Wiwa was fine; maybe the leveling of Odi was fine; maybe the continual rape of the resources of the Niger-Delta is okay; maybe the militants should continue their exploits in the ND area so as to give the government reasons to annihilate more villages like Odi.

The above post by Ono, unfortunately, brings to the fore the negative sentiments that some Nigerians have of the Igbos.

May God forgive Ono for tacitly advancing genocide, for championing inequality and oppression, and for laughing at the dead!

Well written, i have been reading all his(ono)post in many threads and it is very clear that he is an Igbo hater. I have no sympathy for KSW after what him and Issac Borrow did to the Igbos during and after the war. Sometimes i feel that what is happening in ND today is just nemesis,because what goes around comes around. Despite all the support they gave to Northerners and the conficication of Igbo properties in Rivers state, today the northerners are not listerning to their plight and he is fullish enough to castigate the Igbos who fought to librate them from the tentacles of the oppressor. If as at today he and his people can't still see what Ojukwu and the Igbos saw 3 decades ago i do not think they will ever see it again which will make their suffring perpetual. That is not my wish but they need to grow up and see things as men and not children.

@Ono,

You stated have stated that The nigeria civil war was fought becuase of Oil. Why don't educate us on facts and figures to elaborate you statement. Who knows you may be one of the Gowon's Lieutenants.


And the last post was very correct. I too have NO PITY WHATSOEVER for Ken Saro Wiwa. Afterall his house in Rivers state was fomerly owned by an igbo man who knowing that he will never get back his property committed suicide.

Well, I love Ibos. My mom and our first born (who is half-caste) speak Igbo fluently. But it saddens me there are people like Ojukwu who put the Ibos in past, present and future jeopardy and he still hasn't told them the truth.

During the merger of Total Fina Elf in the 90's, the expatriates in Nigeria held meetings with the top Nigerian Management staff and urged them to voted against a merger with Total because of their ruthless means of achieving ends. My elder sister was in this meeting. They were shown old slides and video clips of meetings between Total and the French Government on how to topple Shell and the British Government out of Nigeria. Using any means necessary including sponsoring a secession.

They showed slides pictures and video clips of meetings with Ojukwu.

They showed swiss and french mercenaries being trained and sent to Biafra as AID workers.

The Ibos fought with a clear conscience, but I tell you, this war was concocted in far away France and Ojukwu was a partner and the primary aim of the sponsors of this war was OIL. The primary aim of their agent Odimegwu Ojukwu was to become president for life of his own little oil rich nation, Biafra. Millions of innocent people died on both sides without knowing what they were fighting for.

Ojukwu should tell the truth before he dies so that people will now start knowing the real reason WHY. Till he does, he will continue to collapse in the presence of God.

God bless Nigeria!

denex:

Ojukwu should tell the truth before he dies so that people will now start knowing the real reason WHY. Till he does, he will continue to collapse in the presence of God.

WOW

@Denex,

I wish to state categorically that Total, France and co cannot be the reason for the war even though in any conflict there will be sponsors, sympathizers, thieves, arms dealers etc that will want to benefit from either side.

Trying to reduce the issue of the Biafran war to what France and Total wanted is certainly unfortunate and to me remains one of those lines those that hate Igbos always push forward to make themselves feel cool.

On Saro Wiwa, what can we say but that nemesis came knocking. When he was made a commissioner at age 26, went to school in Enugu (CIC) and UNN with the Eastern Region money and yet championed the abandoned property campaign even when Igbos did not lose their properties in Yoruba land, I believe that one must pay for his actions whether right or wrong and he was not an exception.

Ojukwu gave Saro Wiwa a very good response when Saro Wiwa came to address the Ohaneze concerning the Ogoni problems in Presidential Hotel Enugu. Ojukwu told him" My friend Ken, what you are seeing now is what I saw a quarter century and ago and I remember too well the stand you took at that time".

So let the dead bury the dead.

Considering the fact that the Igbos were given 20 pounds (that is if you were lucky to provide your passbook after 3 years of war) to begin life afresh and today they can hold their own in every sphere of life, only envy and jealousy will make people try all they can to twist anything concerning the war, a war that the whole world knows about but some would rather have us believe that France and Total initiated the war, very unfortunate.

Just a quick rejoinder - What does the south-south have to do with the Igbos? The civil war wouldn't have happened if Ojukwu had seceeded with the Igbos. But he seceeded with the new oil producing Niger Delta, and other "minorities" in the south-south. That was was over OIL. Otherwise, biafra would be a republic to this day (i.e. -just the Igbo areas, no cross river, no rivers, no oil)

Banderas:

Just a quick rejoinder - What does the south-south have to do with the Igbos? The civil war wouldn't have happened if Ojukwu had seceeded with the Igbos. But he seceeded with the new oil producing Niger Delta, and other "minorities" in the south-south. That was was over OIL. Otherwise, biafra would be a republic to this day (i.e. -just the Igbo areas, no cross river, no rivers, no oil)

The good thing about a public forum is that it will give you all the time in the world to expose your level of ignorance.

Ojukwu was to the Eastern Region as a whole what the governor of say Rivers is to Rivers state today.

So, your warped sense of reasoning is like saying that the governor cannot do something in the state because some people do not like him or he is not from their ethnic group.

Purge yourself of the hate before it consumes you. Thank God for a forum like this one, never knew people still refuse to engage their brains before putting their mouths into gear.

Interesting! I don't know how to comment on this. Have u read the book 'The Biafra Story' by Fredrick Forsythe? I found it quite intriguing

At the begining of tis thread Angel101 made the above comment, to be honest I did not know about Fredrick Forsythe but right now I have ordered his book from Amazon. The fact that BBC sacked their own staff for telling the truth goes on to justify some of the things we know.

I urge people to at least look up this name in wikipedia. 

Denex if all you want to believe is Ojukwu was all about his connection to Total and France, I should also expect you should fairly believe that Gowon was all about Shell and Britain.

McKren:


Denex if all you want to believe is Ojukwu was all about his connection to Total and France, I should also expect you should fairly believe that Gowon was all about Shell and Britain.

True

Afam,

I'm really sorry to tell you this, but the secession of southern Nigeria from the grips of the British. SCOA (Societe Commerciales de l'Afrique de l'Ouest), TOTAL, Peugeot were the countries in the forefront of charging the French government to use any means necessary to get them a share of the Nigerian market because while colonial French Africa was very large, it was also largely unprofitable.

But it was after oil was discovered in Southern Nigeria around Independence that Total spearheaded to support for a recession of Southern Nigeria.

All along, what the French companies wanted was to be allowed to enter any part of Nigeria to do business without British harassment and biased taxing. But with the discovery of Oil, they decided they wanted Southern Nigeria! Especially Total. It was since 1960 that France started plotting the secession of Southern Nigeria till they found the right man to use. Ojukwu's proposal at Aburi was scripted by France. War had been declared in a boardroom in France more than five years before Ojukwu learnt about it before the Aburi Accord was thought of, before the confederacy scam was thought of.

The Ibos fought for their freedom yes! To prevent total annihilation. But do they know that Ojukwu, Total and France with its colonies put them in Jeopardy to fight for their lives?

It is just too bad.

Afam, take your hatred elsewhere, and learn to speak with respect. I'm from the south-south, and I assure you, we didn't view Ojukwu with any form of admiration. The south-south was heavily marginalised in the biafra of Ojukwu's mind.

Your choice of words in your response to an innocous and even-tempered post shows us where the bitterness lies. as you said, this is a public forum. This is also governed by rules of mutual respect and fairplay. Keep your anger aside, and let us argue this like mature people.

Denex

At the time of the internal ranglings (electoral and census fraud, killing of Igbos in the North) who between North and South first pushed for the division of Nigeria?


Denex there is no point reading a doctored history and thinking you know it all. If you wanna know some of the things that would have happened then just immagine how the cartoon of Prophet Mohamed in far away Denmark will lead to death of Nigerians, immagine how a teacher will be murdered onprovoked by her own students, immagine how disagreements between Isreal and Palestine would cause civil unrest in Nigeria then you will begin to understand what may have happened.


Ojukwu was fighting for oil, the Gowons and Danjumas were not yet they owned Nigeria's oil wells for so long.

I thought we would have been able to use facts on ground to decipher the truth.

@McKren

yes Gowon was for Shell, Britain and even Russia. But Shell and Britain and Gowon did not have to instigate and start a civil war in order to benefit from the Crude Oil in the Niger-Delta.

denex:

@McKren

yes Gowon was for Shell, Britain and even Russia. But Shell and Britain and Gowon did not have to instigate and start a civil war in order to benefit from the Crude Oil in the Niger-Delta.

I dont think I need to remind you that regardless of the evil machinations of the hawks, a large part of present day Niger-Delta are Igbo speaking.

The question is, Let us say hypothetically that the war was all about oil. If I have your stuff and yet lord over you and bully you. Is it down to you or me to protest?

@McKren

I am not here to argue that the Ibos are bad. That I hate them. No.

So please do not institute a mini Oputa Panel for me here. Don't ask me questions that are not intended to point out errors that I've made, but to tie me into a different rumble. I came here to correct people's mistakes not to draw in new lines of argument.

Majority of the people of the Niger-Delta were not and have never been Ibos. I am originally from the Niger-Delta and I definitely am not Ibo-Speaking.

are there no Igbos in Niger-Delta?

There is no point starting what you cant finish

From your posts it looks as if you are from Edo State, Old Bendel State which was as it were then in the old Mid-Western region. Kaduna Nzeogwu who led the coup was from your then region.

Most of you people have been fed with lies on who to blame, yet oil well in our zone are owned by the same people who you call your friends.

I am complete Igbo. There is no better definition of Niger-Delta than that given in NDDC as shown in its list of Member States.
As well as being complete Igbo, I am also Niger-Deltan.

They said to us they want One Nigeria, owned our oil and never used it to develop Nigeria. They have not even used it to develop the North they come from let alone Nigeria.

We will continue to put people like you who refuse to apply reason and see the truth on the right track.

Quote from: McKren on Today at 09:44:52 AM

Denex if all you want to believe is Ojukwu was all about his connection to Total and France, I should also expect you should fairly believe that Gowon was all about Shell and Britain.


True

@ angel101 an execellent analogy. So it is up to denex to answer it.  

If the Biafrans (ex) fought because of oil and the south south prevented them from achieving their aim, me thinks that the region should have been adequatley compesated Abi.

Anyway like all thing controversial this issue will forever be controversial between those  igbos and non-igbos.

Anybody who still subscribe to the notion that the war was fought dolely because of oil is lying to himself.  Yes the Britain , france, Egypt, cameroun, Haiti, Ivory coast that supported either the nigerian side or the biafran side did it becuase various reasons, but that has not made a fact that the war was fought based on their reasons.

The Ibos fought with a clear conscience, but I tell you, this war was concocted in far away France and Ojukwu was a partner and the primary aim of the sponsors of this war was OIL. The primary aim of their agent Odimegwu Ojukwu was to become president for life of his own little oil rich nation, Biafra. Millions of innocent people died on both sides without knowing what they were fighting for

that is not true. The war was never concocted in far away france. Rather it was far away Britain that the war was hatched in coincidence.  After the war Why did the nigerian government compensated  Britain by giving Shell large swathe of the oil rich areas of the Nigeria Delta?

Majority of the people of the Niger-Delta were not and have never been Ibos. I am originally from the Niger-Delta and I definitely am not Ibo-Speaking.  

Guy, you dey very correct o.  Majority are not as you stated but some are.  At leat you are indirectly saying that.


There are some igbo speaking people in Delta, Rivers and Cross-rivers state just like there are some yoruba speaking people in Kwara, Edo, Delta and kogi state. these has not made them non-yorubas becuase they geographically live outside the south-western part of the country.