ono:

I have tried, using available facts at my disposal, plus rational thinking to simulate the events in the country that led to the Biafran War. I have a reasonable match in the end. I have read books on the war. I have also read several articles written in the past on this war. And like you, Laudate, said earlier, Ojukwu has consistently maintained an ominous silence on the role he played to execute that war. So are many of his Igbo brethren who partook in the war. I wonder why they do not want to say anything. Could it be that they admit they were at fault? So far I have painted the picture of that war as I see it. If anyone has any disputable facts to present, let him/her do so without making snide remarks or making derogatory statements about me, my tribe and my people in the Delta.
Maybe you can take me back to those few occassions where had to quanta- argue, Did I budge in the end?

Ono,

You certainly cannot eat you cake and still have it.  

What a liar you are!! What book about the war have you read? You absolutely have read nothing!  For your information, Ojukwu and several other Igbo leaders have consistently told their story about the war.

Sure you haven't read "Because I am Involved" It solely the story about the war as seen by Dim Ojukwu.
Have you also read "Emeka" by Frederick Forsyth? It is a powerful moving story authorised by Ojukwu himself, written by the renowned author of The Day of the Jackal, Odessa File and Devils Alternative

Please always check your facts before cranking your leprosy infected fingers on your keyboard.

youngies:

Sure you haven't read "Because I am Involved" It solely the story about the war as seen by Dim Ojukwu.

You see, you were doing so well until you got to this point. Please on what page of that book, did Ojukwu talk about the war?? Ehn?? Tell us o!!

It is also worthy of note that the myth of Igbo coup became fashionable to 'justify' the July coup, which beyond doubt had no particular political philosophy but was extremely ethinical.

All those taking part, senior officers, junior officers and soldiers were northerners and all the victims were easterners, except Fajuyi the one Yoruba.

It is important to note, though, that most of the oil produced in Nigeria is from the non-Igbo Niger Delta

I know that ," most of the oil produced in Nigeria is from the non-Igbo Niger Delta" , statement is to make us non niger-deltas  to have it mind that your region produce most of the oil in this country and are lying outside southeast region. Point made.

Point noted

Prizm:

It is the height of folly for ANYONE (especially someone of Niger-Delta origin for instance) to waltz into a thread of this nature to deride and caricature the self-determination efforts of those who fought on Biafra's side. The more sensible approach, even if one has strong reasons for objecting to "Ojukwu's personal war", I think would have been to carefully study the facts, reach out to other Nigerians (Igbos included by the way), and build a broad grassroots movement to tackle visionless leadership in Nigeria.

I did not read through your post the last time thoroughly. I've just done that now, and I realise I'm dealing with another igbo man, who's feeling very bitter about that war. It's a normal thing to feel bitter about it. I indeed made some snide remarks about the war and igbo people. I made those statements because your brothers provoked me to do so. They kept on making a fool of themselves, casting aspersions on my person, people and tribes and calling them terrible names. I later apologised to the generality of Igbos on this forum for my unguarded utterances. What else would you have me do? This scenario of ours on this issue is much similar to what transpired in the Nigeria of 1966, between the parties involved before the war.

Prizm:

1) The actions of a few Igbo soldiers (plus one Yoruba man) in 1966 against the supposedly corrupt ruling establishment of the day cannot with due diligence be tagged an "Igbo orchestrated coup". The Igbo people were not consulted for this action; the perpetrators also did not claim to be acting in Igbo interest. They did what they felt would benefit Nigeria as a whole.

2) Before this action, the Igbo people did not have any particular need for a revolution because unlike today, the Igbo people were richly represented in every sphere and strata of government and the working class.

3) It is unconscionable and downright bizarre to commence a large scale extermination of fellow Nigerians (Igbos or people of south-southern origin) because of the actions of a few soldiers. That action served to illustrate that Nigeria was never one or united even if it was politically correct to claim so.

Folks can argue from now till tomorrow on what should have happened or not have, but really, its akin to crying over spilled milk. At this juncture, it behooves this present generation to draw some lessons from the mistakes of the past and then vow never to repeat those mistakes again. This is why it is remarkably sad that people who ought to be railing against the brigands in power (who have always executed their anti-people policies without facing negative consequences) are now mired in endless tribal baiting and infighting.

Will be back to address those bullet points.

So, a Niger Deltan like you cannot coherently make a single valid point. You have asked Hausas to come and help you, what of Yorubas, invite them too. You think people are blinded by extreme ethnic nonsense that you display here.

And you are surprised that a lot of Igbos are defending the Igbos, well with your own hands you wrote that the Igbos were proud because a lot of them were brilliant and doing well then as if that is enough excuse for the hatred you are displaying.

Facts don't lie and many have been presented here. Purge yourself of the hatred and do something positive with your life.

The average Igboman now sees those famous pictures of the sons of fishermen with machine guns looking all crazy and wanting to kidnap anything that moves.
Let's see how the drama unfolds.
This time we'll watch from afar and supply food when needed.

babyosisi:

The average Igboman now sees those famous pictures of the sons of fishermen with machine guns looking all crazy and wanting to kidnap anything that moves.
Let's see how the drama unfolds.
This time we'll watch from afar and supply food when needed.

What is wrong with being the son of a fisherman?? Fishing, is an honest endeavour. Please do not talk about fishing, in the same breath as kidnapping. We all know kidnapping is evil. No one is condoning it. Am only wondering why you had to link something as despicable as 'kidnapping,' with 'fishing.' Since when has it become a crime to be the "son of a fisherman??" 

Well, for people like madam babyosisi, who loves looking down on fishermen, please look down on me o! My grandfather padlled canoe from my village all the way to Lagos in the early 70s, just after the Civil War. It was his fish trade that helped him all the way to Lagos, where he found shelter and set up a business to train my father.

We in the delta are very much wiser than before. And indeed, we've learnt a lot from the mistakes of the Igbos. An ant will not look an elephant in the face and call him a fool. He sure knows the dire consequences. We will employ better means to fight for our own self-determination - the ones Igbos fought for the wrong way and lost several millions of able bodied men and women in their prime.

I am the grandson of a fisherman, and am proud to be one.

We will employ better means to fight for our own self-determination - the ones Igbos fought for the wrong way and lost several millions of able bodied men and women in their prime

You are very correct. We fought the wrong way, while "genius" niger-deltans are doing theirs in the civillised way by kidnapping foreigners, terrorising innocent people (Debam and De well cults groups), kidnapping children. raping women. I think the igbo people should have employed such tactics.

Well Ono, you should earnestly be ashamed of yourself. Tell me my friend is it a better way for self-determination?

Well the war sure had a toll on your people. That's why your leaders lost every inch of sense and decorum; they resorted to joining forces with the evil beings at Okija and other shrines - for proper enlightenment on the civilised way of making hard-earned money through ritual killings.

Don't get me started, you idiot.

Well the war sure had a toll on your people. That's why your leaders lost every inch of sense and decorum; they resorted to joining forces with the evil beings at Okija and other shrines - for proper enlightenment on the civilised way of making hard-earned money through ritual killings.

That is not the issue. We igbo people used the uncivilised method and lost and you people are using the civilised ways and winning.

Don't get me started, you idiot.

That is pretty strong language for someone from the ethnic group with a very "strong sense of decorum".

Planner:

That is not the issue. We igbo people used the uncivilised method and lost and you people are using the civilised ways and winning.

That is pretty strong language for someone from the ethnic group with a very "strong sense of decorum".

Oh! so you now agree that your people lost that war - using uncivilised means. My dear, that's the best word I've heard from you today. You do not want to know how we're winning our wars on all fronts.

I see I used something touchy this time. Sawrie lad, you pulled too hard on my tail. Please be careful next time.

Oh!, so you now agree that your people lost that war - using uncivilised means. My dear, that's the best word I've heard from you today. You do not want to know how we're winning our wars on all fronts.

I see I used something touchy this time. Sawrie lad, you pulled too hard on my tail. Please be careful next time.

You reason like a child. How old are you? So you actually believed that you people are using the "civilised ways" by way of kidnapping and all that.

Friend try and read in-between the lines.

Planner:

You reason like a child. How old are you? So you actually believed that you people are using the "civilised ways" by way of kidnapping and all that.

Friend try and read in-between the lines.

C'mon, go and sleep, can't you see it's too late to discuss with elders? I will send those Ikwerre youths (your kith and kins in the Portharcourt, formenting trouble) to come and lull you to sleep. Anyways, they (Ikwerres) have said they don't want to have anything to do with you people. Who will I send to lull you to sleep now?

C'mon, go and sleep, can't you see it's too late to discuss with elders? I will send those Ikwerre youths (your kith and kins in the Portharcourt, formenting trouble) to come and lull you to sleep. Anyways, they (Ikwerres) have said they don't want to have anything to do with you people. Who will I send to lull you to sleep now?

Why are you still awake?

ono:

We in the delta are very much wiser than before. And indeed, we've learnt a lot from the mistakes of the Igbos. An ant will not look an elephant in the face and call him a fool. He sure knows the dire consequences. We will employ better means to fight for our own self-determination - the ones Igbos fought for the wrong way and lost several millions of able bodied men and women in their prime.

Yes, many Igbos lost their lives in that war (a point you've relentlessly hinged on), but remember this: humans come and go, they go through death and come through birth. After forty years, the number of surviving offspring from those Igbos that survived the war is definitely more than those lost during the war, and arguably more than the present day population of any single non-Igbo ethnic group in the entire Niger-Delta. In the numbers game, the Igbos win despite the huge toll of the war on their population.

ono:

Well the war sure had a toll on your people. That's why your leaders lost every inch of sense and decorum; they resorted to joining forces with the evil beings at Okija and other shrines - for proper enlightenment on the civilised way of making hard-earned money through ritual killings.

Don't get me started, you idiot.

And I actually thought this Ono had some intellect - you believe in ritual killings, to the point of referring to it in a discourse? The barbaric act of ritual killings is practiced in many parts of Nigeria, including the Non-Igbo Niger Delta (NIND). Any assumption that it is restricted to the Igbos is foolhardy.

ono:

C'mon, go and sleep, can't you see it's too late to discuss with elders? I will send those Ikwerre youths (your kith and kins in the Portharcourt, formenting trouble) to come and lull you to sleep. Anyways, they (Ikwerres) have said they don't want to have anything to do with you people. Who will I send to lull you to sleep now?

@Ono, since you're a Wikipedia fan (I'm a fan too ) go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikwere_language. The Ikwerre language is no less a dialect of Igbo than say the Idemili dialect.

The statement in bold is probably based on your interaction with people who have chosen a political agenda. The Ikwerres are Igbos. See http://p221.ezboard.com/fnigeriadiscussionsfrm2.showMessageRange?topicID=410.topic&start=1&stop=20.

An Ikwerre saying he is not Igbo is like Michael Jackson saying he is not black.

ono:

I did not read through your post the last time thoroughly. I've just done that now, and I realise I'm dealing with another igbo man, who's feeling very bitter about that war. It's a normal thing to feel bitter about it. I indeed made some snide remarks about the war and igbo people. I made those statements because your brothers provoked me to do so. They kept on making a fool of themselves, casting aspersions on my person, people and tribes and calling them terrible names. I later apologised to the generality of Igbos on this forum for my unguarded utterances. What else would you have me do? This scenario of ours on this issue is much similar to what transpired in the Nigeria of 1966, between the parties involved before the war.

Will be back to address those bullet points.

Are you still going to address those bullet points, or should I give you more time to fight your perceived enemies? And if you could be so kind, could you expatiate on the highlighted part of your post?

Seun, temperatures r rising so may u shld suspend dis thread 4 a while. Fact is dat there is no inevtable war. No matter wat anybody may want 2 say. It's so unfortuante dat we had 2 experience d war. Was not born at d time (thank goodness 4 dat) my mum was quite young n my dad fought in dat war as a young NMS student, forced 2 go back home n join d Biafran war a war he probably didn't believe in. He can testify dat even if Biafra had survived, there wld still have been alot of problems because dey faced many problems even amongst dem soldiers. My mum lost three years of school n 4 long after d war my dad had 2 wait 4 his wounds 2 heal b4 he could join his collegues. Needless 2 say, he lost alot of years. He still has d horrible scars on his legs 2 show 4 his escapades n take it 4rm someone whose been there, d igbos r still marginalised in d Nigerian Army (no hard feelings) So my point is dis. Everyone involved in dat war has their tragic tales. Let's see 40yrs as time 4 us to heal n stop flinging accusations back n forth it's 4 d best. Fact is d igbos r still marginalised but we shld begin 2 look ahead n make sure dat we dont allow situations dat can b controlled 2 escalate 2 wars

ono:

Well, for people like madam babyosisi, who loves looking down on fishermen, please look down on me o! My grandfather padlled canoe from my village all the way to Lagos in the early 70s, just after the Civil War. It was his fish trade that helped him all the way to Lagos, where he found shelter and set up a business to train my father. . . . .

I am the grandson of a fisherman, and am proud to be one.

May God bless all fishermen, dead or alive, who are earning a living through the honest business of fishing!!

Mandora:

Everyone involved in that war has their tragic tales. Let's see 40yrs as time 4 us to heal n stop flinging accusations back n forth it's 4 d best. Fact is d igbos r still marginalised but we shld begin 2 look ahead n make sure that we don't allow situations that can b controlled 2 escalate 2 wars

Well said!!!

Laudate

I dont think Babyosisi was looking down on fishermen, after all the former President of Nigeria is a farmer. She was only pointing out that the Children of Fishermen have left the legitimate bussiness of their fathers for Kidnapping for money.

Go read her comment again.

Ofcourse they know Babayosisi wasn't talking down on fishermen, they just want to draw her out.

McKren:

Laudate

I don't think Babyosisi was looking down on fishermen, after all the former President of Nigeria is a farmer. She was only pointing out that the Children of Fishermen have left the legitimate bussiness of their fathers for Kidnapping for money.

Go read her comment again.

I have read her comment. And I still can't see anything different in it.  What does the fact that the former President of Nigeria is a farmer, have to do with her statement??

youngies:

Ofcourse they know Babayosisi wasn't talking down on fishermen, they just want to draw her out.

Oh?? Draw her out, for what reason?? Please go through that comment she made again, especially the bit referring to the "sons of fishermen " and you will see condescension dripping from her remarks.

Obasanjo is a farmer, his sons are sons-of-farmer.

I was only using that to prove to you that there is nothing derogatory in refering to people who their forefathers were predominantly fishermen as sons-of-fishermen.

You, Laudate, are the one misconcieving the term as an abuse because in our society fishermen are not generally so rich. In a society where fishing or farming thrives people are happy to be identified with what their farthers do.

So, sons-of-fishermen or sons-of-farmers or sons-of-traders is no abuse.

Laudate,
You see, these people have been ''programmed'' to defend what's theirs, even when the person is at fault. You better don't waste precious time answering them.

The main point has been made: The Igbos lost the Biafran War because they did not exhaust all other possible means of averting the War, and why was that? Answer: They employed the crudest possible means at resolving ordinary misunderstanding at the time. They allowed themselves to be blinded by[b] pride, greed, shortsightedness[/b], and I-know-it-all attitude towards the issues at stake. Point Blank.

I know the above will draw another thunderous condemnation from the Igbos. But I have developed thick skin for their unguarded utterances. It's in their blood.

@McKren,

Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. I know exactly what babyosisi meant, and it wasn't the slightest bit complimentary.

She has used the term in a derogatory manner on other threads. It was overlooked, because the person to whom she addressed her comments, at that time had stepped out of line.  

But now, it has become a favourite one-liner she keeps using to put down folks from the Niger-Delta, irrespective of their stand on any topic under discussion.

I don't blame you for seeing nothing wrong in her description, especially since she linked it with machine guns and kidnapping, in the same breath.

Laudate

I did not say her statement might not sound abbusive to someone, I only said sons-of-fishermen in itself is not derogatory.

Whether the rest of her statement is derogatory depends on who is reading it.

Like you rightly pointed out, you definition of her intent was based on prejudice and your previous encounters with her.

There is nothing like trying to defend the indefensible, the question is,

Is fishing the historical culture and means of livelihood of people of that region? yes it is.
If they are, is it wrong or derogatory to call them sons of fishermen ? no it is not.
Like ONO pointed out even his own grand-dad was a fisherman.
Is it derogatory to call someone son-of-fisherman or son-of-farmer, it is not in common knowledge to do so.


Are the children of fishermen of yesteryears carring guns now and kidnapping people? that is the fact, while that satement could be derogatory it is happening in our society everyday.

You Laudate did not counter that or accuse her of abusing the act of Kidnapping. You were claiming she is looking down on fishermen which the statement by babyosisi did not suggest.


For the records this is what she said

The average Igboman now sees those famous pictures of the sons of fishermen with machine guns looking all crazy and wanting to kidnap anything that moves.
Let's see how the drama unfolds.
This time we'll watch from afar and supply food when needed.

@topic

Guys, are we not missing a good opportunity to objectively and academically reflect on Biafra?

What lesson were learnt, and what lessons were missed?

Instead of spewing anti-igbo, anti-Niger delta, anti-Yoruba, or anti-Hausa sentiments on the pages of this thread, can we use this medium to recapitulate historical facts as a means of preventing another "biafran" concept anywhere in Nigeria again.

The facts are that within every tribe, we have sub-tribes who often compete amongst themselves. Within the former Eastern Nigeria, and before the discovery of oil, the Efiks, the Ijaws, etc were a minority to the Igbos.

However, they managed to get along. The Yorubas also had their own problems with the Binis, and the Edo- a situation that gave rise to the Mid-Western region.

The Hausas and the Fulanis of the North had their own minority populations in the Benue/plateau areas.

The discovery of oil coupled with the civil war brought the Eastern Nigeria tribal agitations to an unprecedented level.

By simple laws of proximity, the Efiks and the Ijaws remain closer cousins of the Igbos than do Hausa/Fulani in Sokoto or Kano, and the Yoruba in Lagos or Ibadan.

With the creation of core Igbo state like the East-central state, the agitation moved towards the Owerri/Mbaise group vs. the Onitsha/Awka group--- the dichotomy went on, and on.

It also went on in other parts of the nation, even in Calabar, I recall the Obudu group agitating against the Ikot Ekpene/Uyo group.

My point?

Agitation is natural, even among 2 brothers, but the naija situation is worsened by the defective federal sysytem where everybody is gunning for a ltd federal fund.

Unlike other places where the federal govt is maintained by funds from different regions, naija funds flow from top down and not from bottom up.

The funds which ironically comes mostly from the Niger delta.

Igbos in Aba, or Enugu are more likely to be affected a huge environmental disaster in the delta than say an Hausa man living in Kano or Sokoto.

So, can we come back to the lessons of Biafra without insulting each other?

ordinary misunderstanding at the time. They allowed themselves to be blinded by pride, greed, shortsightedness, and I-know-it-all attitude towards the issues at stake. Point Blank.

So to your "civilised" niger-delta behaviour the murder of close to 100,00 igbos in the north is an "ordinary misunderstanding? I have being trying  not to see you a stupid person. I have been trying believe me.

So Ono, tell me  what has the niger-delta gained by supporting the nigerian troops during the war? Mind you so many of the niger-delta people was also killed during the war and yet you people felt nothing for your brethen.

Well, I am  thinking, Is it because minorities are usually lowly members of any society that they usually see themselves as nothing viz blinds support to the people that killed them.

You see Igbo people are naturally ahead of the niger-delta people in fields of human endeavor. Probably that is what is making you people very very unhappy. I am an igbo person and Iam very very proud of my heritage.

Igbo people will continue till the end of time to defend what is theirs. So if you insist of being igbo basher we would not let you rest.

Mind you Ken Saro Wiwa was once like you and he ended up dead. So was Harry Marshall.

Happy reply.

@naijaking1,

That was a nice post. The Nigerian civil war was a great tragedy not only to the igbos but also to the country.

But you must know that it is still a very sensitive issue among the igbo people becuase even though on paper there were not suppose to be victor or vanquished ( how strange!)
we know who won and who lost.

The niger-delta people gained one thing: seizing igbo people's properties withthe support of the government.