midolian:
1/10

You no know , and you dey give pass Mark wey you no know.

seunmsg:
Christians pray to God through Jesus Christ and not to Jesus Christ.

Polytheists pray to their 3 deities,not the God and Father of Jesus Christ, Matthew 6:9 and John 20:17..

kramer:


Interesting reaponse. But I have a few thoughts

The big issue I have here is people who 'prayed to' Jesus. It was man who started that idea out of awe for Jesus and not because he gave that advice/command/impression. Same way people today sometimes worship their pastors and self-claimed MOG.

What you forget here is Jesus accepted from prayers to worship etc he could have rejected them if they weren't in order knowing presedence was set

Infact he delibrately asked Peter whom he thought he (Jesus) was.

This was Jesus trying to see if Peter could figure it out, when Peter called him son of God.

He (Jesus) applauded personally, this should be blasphemy if it wasn't in order

As you can see Jesus allowed people to figure things out themselves he doesn't need to tell them

Anyone worshipping his MOG etc is on his own because nothing of such in the Bible not even by the apostles Jesus gave powers to

When Jesus said 'Our Father' he was referring to a different being from himself, his Father, the same person he would always go up to the mountains to pray to. Again, it was man who developed the idea to pray to Jesus out of awe. And I believe it's because we humans have this fascination with things in the physical. It's the same reason we had/have idol worshippers because people need to see who to pray to.

No bro, you are missing it, the worship or praying to Jesus isn't because the people who did it where looking for physical representative to worship.

Jesus is God, he had all his powers which only God can, you can't be around your creator, the creator of the world and not be obliged to worship him (if you had an open heart to observe)

You must feel his presence so strong more like a 50kg (average human weight) tank of fuel coming in contact with a full oil rig.

It just knows the oil rig is it's endless source of existence

That's the thing about Jesus, human being have void, thirst for peace, insatiable desires but just been with Jesus your soul is satisfied, something only the creator can fill

Then you see nature obeying him, him raising the dead that is rotten

Common, you sef if your heart is open you would know wats up

A good example here is the Israelites, despite being delivered from Egypt and seeing God's miracles first hand they still went ahead an constructed an Idol so as to worship God. So you can imagine what they'd do with Jesus.

This is a different senario, Israelites constructed idol because they said Moses has been killed by his God in the mountain top

They actually never knew this God, to them it was Moses who brought him and now he was dead meaning no way to reach the God hence the idol

When Jesus was around he gave power to his disciples why didn't the Jews worship them too except just once when poisonous snake didn't harm Paul (that was even a pagan city)

Do not forget that the kind of worship etc that was given to Jesus was not from unrepentant pagans

It was by his followers who have been sticking with him, hearing his preachings, and had seen true Godship in Jesus

Infact for you to worship him it means he had been revealed to you and if he had been revealed to you it means you knew there was no other God outside him

Interestingly, I suppose it is for this reason why Islam particularly warns against creating an image in the likeness of their prophets. It's because people easily become obsessed with the messenger and not God himself.

Islam has no point, it actually calls Mohamed a mere prophet yet Mohamed is bigger than Allah doing mohamed illegal sex wishes

Sahih Bukhari 4788

I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires

if beans is poisoned in adamawa state does it makes the one in benue poisoned too

If actually no-one should worship a human, should it stop people from worshipping God when he appears in flesh

If i was in the time of Jesus and i get to know of how the mysterious shepherds came to worship him as a baby king, his birth by a virgin

His baptism and the loud voice of God validation, the dove, his miracle of raising the dead after 4days, his ability to forgive sins, his messages of righteousness to God, etc

All i need is to search the Torah at the time and i would get all the pieces that this special man was prophesied as God that was to come

It's not about finding an image to attach to but who he is

Ddokie:
It appears Reno is Jehovah Witness"ish".

Na only dem dey read bible like that - from right to left.

You can't pray to Jesus but you can pray to a judge in a court. Ndi okpo.

There isn't any need to join issues with these ones or any other person throwing up controversial arguments aimed at showcasing their independence in the study of scripture.



Truth is that if we concentrated on the good that we all have come to accept and shun controversies that end up tearing down without building up, the world would have been a much better place.



They read bible from right to left (meaning they start on the right path, but pride ends up taking them to the wrong destination).

Na which main school you attend ?
Is a magistrate judge your God?

What does your comments says about Jesus Christ speaking to you @ Matthew 6:9 & John 20:17?

Mikecold:

If you as a human being does not believe in Trinity then you are a joke to yourself

You don't believe because God can't be three even though he created humans in his own likeness (replica) of three

You still can't grab how you are three in one as a human being yet appear to be one seamlessly?

Can you tell me why science is yet to bring dead bodies to life?

According to science all dead bodies are lifeless because something happened to their internal organs (weakned, shut)

So how difficult is it to replace perphas a heart, kidney, or some biotech gadget insert blood, oxygen and get the dead bodies back to life

Oops, I forgot they have been trying that but ended up disappointed with an obvious conclusion that life is not air in itself.

Life is a spirit when taken out is beyond man's effort.

Does this mean that man has been living all his life with Atleast two entities yet keep asking how the God who created him and said man is in his likeness can exist in more than one entity

Have you ever asked yourself why man's life on earth can not do without water?

What's the big deal about water sef because even a baby born today would thirst for it with his soul.

So don't you get chills to know the purest thing you can't do without contains H20 (Two hyrogen, one oxygen =3)

If you wish i can give you countless narration where Jesus referred to him self as the water of life

So what's the big deal about water on earth?

It's God's signature of his Trinity and man's inability to exist without his Trinity.

Yaweh is a God of symbolism, water is H20

Oxygen is on its own in water (this is Yaweh) yet exist with two hydrogen (Jesus, Holy spirit) and they do same job

Jesus Christ is the water for the spirit that also needs spiritual water




Food for thought

Why should we believe the man made scam birthed at nicene?

khia:


This is just illogical bable. God is the beginning and the end, all knowing, he created man whom he loved only to close his heart and ears to them is ridiculous. When God created man and women he knew the atrocities they would create before he even created them. It makes no sense to create what you know you will not hear.

This is why I see the bible as contradictive and the reason for the contradiction is man (Catholicism) adding and taking away from the scriptures.

Actually if you are Muslim i hope you know Quran adopts all the stories in the Bible at least they claim it to the old testament

Catholics adding and taking away scripture, they didn't take the scripture I have maybe yours they took

That aside, God created man in perfection and gave him the distinct power of making his own decisions

God wasn't creating bots but something in his image and it was so perfect he came down every time to commune with man

Who brought man down?

It was Satan not God

Tohsynetita1:
I dont know why we argue on things that arent making us grow spiritually, i think things that can cause sin should be the bone of contetion.
If jesus is God; Have i sinned by the statement?
And if i say Jesus is not God, have i sinned? Once we've not sinned, i dont think their should be room for this wasteful discussion.

It is serious big big oooo!
Your belief or unbelief is tied to your salvation, John 3:16,36, John 17:3 & John 20:17,30-31.

HedwigesMaduro:
Which means when you ask you friend for something, you're praying to your friend. So, praying to a man is accepted. Your logic.

The man is correct! We forget that a prayer is a collection of our asks, our seeks, and our knocks... only in our case, we are used to thinking it only has to do with God.

When Jesus Christ was on earth with His disciples, they asked Him for all they needed and He answered them. He introduced them to asking the Father when He was no longer with, but He never forbade them from asking Him.

Jesus Christ is the one who is our Master- the one we worship(submit to and obey). So should a servant not ask His master for that which he has need of simply because he is afraid of some man-made doctrine?

Perfectbeing:
Why then did Stephen prayed directly to Jesus to receive his spirit as he was being stoned?

Stephen did NOT pray to Jesus.
Or you mean that Paul prayed to Ceasar, for his use of the same word "I APPEAL".

freshboi88:


First question to u is tell me what u believe in respect to the divinity of Christ ? And then tell why u think trinity is not scriptural.

"Divinity is the state of being a god."
According to the Dictionaries.
Divine meaning A god.
(Screenshots evidences)

@ John 1:1, many Bibles reads accurately.
"The word is a god"/"the word is divine"
JWs are very correct!

The Trinity is NOT scriptural.

kramer:
Interestingly, I suppose it is for this reason why Islam particularly warns against creating an image in the likeness of their prophets. It's because people easily become obsessed with the messenger and not God himself.

Here's just a few differences between Jesus Christ and Islam:

1. Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law is the one you are to bow to in worship .I.e. submit to and obey.

2. Jesus Christ, the Law in the Kingdom of God is Master over you

3. Jesus Christ lives inside of each and everyone who belongs to Him. He is not just the messenger but also the message itself.

4. Jesus Christ is the Shepherd/Teacher/ Authority over those who belong to Him

5. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life which you claim to have and as a result are able to reach God by it.

6. He is the King you will continue to serve for all of eternity

So, if you think bowing to God's Law is akin to idolatry, you are inthe wrong religion.

Mikecold:
what Christ was doing with the Lord's prayer was to prepare the minds of the Jews at that time to have an understanding of God as their father

Remember before now even Jews dared not go into the temple unless the high priest that still had his limits.

Keep in mind Christ was not yet crucified so how could he have possibly tell the Jews to pray in his name when he hadn't paid the price for them to access him in prayer

Mind you they could pray to him, desire him to do things for them which he could do because he was on earth with them, but anything regarding prayer in closet they couldn't call him name because he hadn't gotten a liscence

So essentially he was preparing them for a new kind of relationship with God not really about the prayer per say

When his work was finished it means the Jesus who was already prayed to on earth when he was around can also be prayed to in heaven

The Jews already knew that God Yahweh was their heavenly Father & God.
They didn't learn that from Jesus initially.

Ephesians 3:14-15, Paul,the apostle who had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ disagrees with your claim.

Kobojunkie:
John 15 vs 1 - 14, will clear it up for you. When you ask Jesus Christ for a thing, it amounts to praying to Him.

John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, is your claim the teaching Jesus received from his God and Father?

Janosky:

John 15:15 & Matthew 6:9, is your claim the teaching Jesus received from his God and Father?

I would rather enter a discussion on this or any other topic with the one you call GB over you than with you.
So let me know his social media handle so I can engage him when I am able.

Kobojunkie:
The man is correct! We forget that a prayer is a collection of our asks, our seeks, and our knocks... only in our case, we are used to thinking it only has to do with God.

When Jesus Christ was on earth with His disciples, they asked Him for all they needed and He answered them. He introduced them to asking the Father when He was no longer with, but He never forbade them from asking Him.

Jesus Christ is the one who is our Master- the one we worship(submit to and obey). So should a servant not ask His master for that which he has need of simply because he is afraid of some man-made doctrine?

I'm not contending with his postulation. I'm contending with his logic.

Perfectbeing:
Yet he received their prayers like he did Steven's.

Also also Jesus himself didn't ask any body NOT to pray to Him

John 15:15, Matthew 6:9, John 7:16.
What was the teaching Jesus received from his God and Father?
Ephesians 3:14-15, what is the teaching Paul received from Jesus?

Kobojunkie:
I would rather enter a discussion on this or any other topic with the one you call GB over you than with you.
So let me know his social media handle so I can engage him when I am able.

Is John 15:15,Matt 6:9 & Ephesians 3:14-15, the words of JWs?
I can see you have a problem with the words of Jesus Christ you claim he is your master.
Just continue DECEIVING yourself

Mikecold:


What you forget here is Jesus accepted from prayers to worship etc he could have rejected them if they weren't in order knowing presedence was set

Infact he delibrately asked Peter whom he thought he (Jesus) was.

This was Jesus trying to see if Peter could figure it out, when Peter called him son of God.

He (Jesus) applauded personally, this should be blasphemy if it wasn't in order

As you can see Jesus allowed people to figure things out themselves he doesn't need to tell them

Anyone worshipping his MOG etc is on his own because nothing of such in the Bible not even by the apostles Jesus gave powers to



No bro, you are missing it, the worship or praying to Jesus isn't because the people who did it where looking for physical representative to worship.

Jesus is God, he had all his powers which only God can, you can't be around your creator, the creator of the world and not be obliged to worship him (if you had an open heart to observe)

You must feel his presence so strong more like a 50kg (average human weight) tank of fuel coming in contact with a full oil rig.

It just knows the oil rig is it's endless source of existence

That's the thing about Jesus, human being have void, thirst for peace, insatiable desires but just been with Jesus your soul is satisfied, something only the creator can fill

Then you see nature obeying him, him raising the dead that is rotten

Common, you sef if your heart is open you would know wats up



This is a different senario, Israelites constructed idol because they said Moses has been killed by his God in the mountain top

They actually never knew this God, to them it was Moses who brought him and now he was dead meaning no way to reach the God hence the idol

When Jesus was around he gave power to his disciples why didn't the Jews worship them too except just once when poisonous snake didn't harm Paul (that was even a pagan city)

Do not forget that the kind of worship etc that was given to Jesus was not from unrepentant pagans

It was by his followers who have been sticking with him, hearing his preachings, and had seen true Godship in Jesus

Infact for you to worship him it means he had been revealed to you and if he had been revealed to you it means you knew there was no other God outside him




Islam has no point, if beans is poisoned in adamawa state does it makes the one in benue poisoned too

If actually no-one should worship a human, should it stop people from worshipping God when he appears in flesh

If i was in the time of Jesus and i get to know of how the mysterious shepherds came to worship him as a baby king, his birth by a virgin

His baptism and the loud voice of God validation, the dove, his miracle of raising the dead after 4days, his ability to forgive sins, his messages of righteousness to God, etc

All i need is to search the Torah at the time and i would get all the pieces that this special man was prophesied as God that was to come

It's not about finding an image to attach to but who he is

Jesus never admonished them you say but then he never outrightly encouraged it either.. it's not recorded anywhere. In fact, he instead referred to God as another being several times, that is, my Father, Our Father and I believe that is what we should try to adhere to where there isn't a clear narrative.

I'm firmly of the belief that Jesus is not God but the son of God. That he had powers doesn't support the fact that he is God. All other prophets also performed miracles too via God. And if I recall, we (as Sons of God) are also able to perform miracles too.

The story about Moses is exactly the point I'm making, human instinct is based on associating the spiritual with the physical. The only way these poor Israelites felt they could reach God was through a physical thing or being, and that's the same with most other religions today including Christianity where God is associated with Jesus. It's human nature.

By the way, followers are the most likely to get things wrong. If you have a chat with a fervent RCCG church goer, he'll tell you that pastor Adeboye is his 'Daddy' and can do no wrong, despite the fact that he's just a mere man. Same with worshippers of TB Joshua and the controversial Oyakihlome. They will bow down and kiss the feet of these men forgetting that they are just Messengers. I believe this is exactly what happened to Jesus and what led the Jews to resent him even more.

Still on his his disciples / followers. Two things that have always struck me are the cases of Peter and Thomas. They both followed Jesus from early on and saw his amazing miracles including the raising of the dead and casting of demons right? Then why would Peter deny him three times? Especially if he knew Jesus was God the maker of all things. Why would Thomas doubt Jesus's resurrection as if such was impossible to God even though it had been done before with Lazarus? Do you not think it's because they knew Jesus was a messenger and not God.

Kobojunkie:
Here's just a few differences between Jesus Christ and Islam:

1. Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law is the one you are to bow to in worship .I.e. submit to and obey.

2. Jesus Christ, the Law in the Kingdom of God is Master over you

3. Jesus Christ lives inside of each and everyone who belongs to Him. He is not just the messenger but also the message itself.

4. Jesus Christ is the Shepherd/Teacher/ Authority over those who belong to Him

5. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life which you claim to have and as a result are able to reach God by it.

6. He is the King you will continue to serve for all of eternity

So, if you think bowing to God's Law is akin to idolatry, you are inthe wrong religion.

Thanks for the clarification here. Quite interesting indeed.

Did Jesus say all of these things? Or did man decide these things after his death? I'm particularly interested in point 6. References to the relevant Bible verses would be most appreciated.

kramer:


Thanks for the clarification here. Quite interesting indeed.

Did Jesus say all of these things? Or did man decide these things after his death? I'm particularly interested in point 6. References to the relevant Bible verses would be most appreciated.

For point 6 - See Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

These are all stated in the Gospels for anyone who is interested to learn from.

oranget:
Which kind wahala be dis one now?
Since prayer is the communication between man and his God, and according to the Bible, Jesus is fully God and fully man, He is also the second person in Trinity. Then why should praying to him be wrong.
This Daddy Freezer always finding excuses to justify his unbelief.

Which kind confusion be this? Jesus is fully God? The same God that created his mother Mary. The confusion is real

Janosky:

Do you understand Jesus instructions to you @ Matthew 6:9?

Yes I do, but in Mark 2, Jesus told a man, "your sins are forgiven you". Now, why would he say that when only God can forgive. If you can understand this, then I don't think you will argue anymore.

Graciafun:



Which kind confusion be this? Jesus is fully God? The same God that created his mother Mary. The confusion is real

"I and the father are one", "...and the word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
Does it ring any bell? This isn't confusion, rather you are the one who needs to calm down and understand.

Kobojunkie:
For point 6 - See Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

These are all stated in the Gospels for anyone who is interested to learn from.

Thanks for that. I actually read the verses but didn't see where it said we should serve Jesus for all eternity

I did, however, notice that he referred to God as "my father" Matthew 25:34

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

kramer:


Thanks for the clarification here. Quite interesting indeed.

Did Jesus say all of these things? Or did man decide these things after his death? I'm particularly interested in point 6. References to the relevant Bible verses would be most appreciated.

Kobojunkie Number 1 is NOT Scriptural.

Matthew 4:10, did his God Command anybody to worship Jesus?

Revelation 3:12,21 who is the God Jesus is worshipping?
Verse 21, who is Jesus Father in the spiritual realm?

You should get the sense to understand that in the spiritual realm, Revelation 3:12 & Matthew 4:10 poses serious issues to Trinitarian TWIST of Hebrews 1:6.
Hebrews 1:6, Catholic Jerusalem Bible says God directed you " Pay homage to Jesus". .

You pay homage to your king, to your parents.
Homage is NOT worship.

kramer:


Thanks for that. I actually read the verses but didn't see where it said we should serve Jesus for all eternity

I did, however, notice that he referred to God as "my father" Matthew 25:34

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Be like the Bereans. Very commendable.

kramer:

Thanks for that. I actually read the verses but didn't see where it said we should serve Jesus for all eternity

I did, however, notice that he referred to God as "my father" Matthew 25:34

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Of course God is the Father - there is no changing that at all.

And if you do not see how the King, Jesus Christ, being judge and decider as far as our eternity is concerned implies he rules over our eternity then its ok too.

oranget:

"I and the father are one", "...and the word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
Does it ring any bell? This isn't confusion, rather you are the one who needs to calm down and understand.

John 17:23 "the disciples are one just as I & the Father are one".
1 Corinthians 3:6-8 "Paul and Apollos are one".

Have you calm down and understand that?

John 1:1 Greek interlinear word for word Screenshot.
Do you see that the Greek John 1:1 is NOT reflected in your English Bible?
If you are still in doubt, cross check Jesus statements @ John 14:1, John 20:17 & John 17:3 Greek lexicon, is Jesus ho theos- "the God"?

Jesus spoke Revelation 3:5,12 .
Why does your God Almighty have a Father & his God in heaven?
Why does his God Almighty not have a God or Father?

Janosky:

John 17:23 "the disciples are one just as I & the Father are one".
1 Corinthians 3:6-8 "Paul and Apollos are one".

Have you calm down and understand that?

John 1:1 Greek interlinear word for word Screenshot.
Do you see that the Greek John 1:1 is NOT reflected in your English Bible?
If you are still in doubt, cross check Jesus statements @ John 14:1, John 20:17 & John 17:3 Greek lexicon, is Jesus ho theos- "the God"?

Jesus spoke Revelation 3:5,12 .
Why does your God Almighty have a Father & his God in heaven?
Why does his God Almighty not have a God or Father?

Where did you see this adulterated Greek version of the Bible. "Towards the God", what a translation!

Janosky:

"Divinity is the state of being a god."
According to the Dictionaries.
Divine meaning A god.
(Screenshots evidences)

@ John 1:1, many Bibles reads accurately.
"The word is a god"/"the word is divine"
JWs are very correct!

The Trinity is NOT scriptural.

Hahahaha....Hold on Mr. Jehovah Witness, in the face of light your deceit and evil is nothing. son of perdition.

One verse renders your lies useless

John 5:23 so that everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.

How do u honor the Jehovah (The Father) as a JW ?

When u answer that question, now answer this

Do u also accord Jesus that same level of honor as Jehovah has commanded u to in John 5:23

The answer to this will cure your lies because I know Jehovah is not in the business of idolatry

Mikecold:
Actually if you are Muslim i hope you know Quran adopts all the stories in the Bible at least they claim it to the old testament

Catholics adding and taking away scripture, they didn't take the scripture I have maybe yours they took

That aside, God created man in perfection and gave him the distinct power of making his own decisions

God wasn't creating bots but something in his image and it was so perfect he came down every time to commune with man

Who brought man down?

It was Satan not God

Yes, and God knew Satan whom he created and what he was capable of when he made man so to say that God has turned his back on man forever like he did Satan and will not hear his pleads unless he speaks through Jesus is absurd.

If you're reading the King's James version your bible has been taken from and do not contain the full books.

I'm not Muslim.

Janosky:

The Jews already knew that God Yahweh was their heavenly Father & God.
They didn't learn that from Jesus initially.

Ephesians 3:14-15, Paul,the apostle who had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ disagrees with your claim.

How does the Ephesians verse indicate your assumption?

Last time I checked Paul came after the father era was established

If Jews knew Yaweh to be a father how come none could enter or see the holies of holies of their father

How come the veil covering it had to be torn for all to see and enter when Jesus was on the cross