Kobojunkie:
Of course God is the Father - there is no changing that at all.

And if you do not see how the King, Jesus Christ, being judge and decider as far as our eternity is concerned implies he rules over our eternity then its ok too.

That's not what the scriptures says but your interpretation.

khia:
That's not what the scriptures says but your interpretation.

My interpretation? Interesting!.

So how about you tell us when it is that our relationship with Jesus Christ as our King/Master/Leader/Authority/Shepherd is slated to come to an end then?

When do we seize to be bound to the New Covenant Law that is Jesus Christ?

oranget:

I suppose you believe in the fairy tale of "Big Bang theory", but you are finding it difficult to believe this "fairy tale". You, my friend are the gullible one here.

You should wait until he tells you he believes in the big bang theory before you call him gullible. Js

freshboi88:


The only begotten son who can forgive sin, who can do whatever Jehovah can do, who Jehovah glorifies, who is all knowing...u don't have sense

Jesus the Christ taught his disciples the Lord's Prayer so they would know how to pray to Yah not himself.

khia:


Yes, and God knew Satan whom he created and what he was capable of when he made man so to say that God has turned his back on man forever like he did Satan and will not hear his pleads unless he speaks through Jesus is absurd.

If you're reading the King's James version your bible has been taken from and do not contain the full books.

I'm not Muslim.

lol, am literally laughing over here.

Now put on your thinking cap this time without a pre sentiment attached

I believe you watch movies of those who went into time then twist something and it affects the destinies of someone or others.

If God is God should he go into people's destinies and be toying with it without their consent?

If you ask many people they would tell you they love to perish and go to hell as a choice

If God wanted to be toying with people's future then he would make humans his boys programmed for one thing

So long as he gave them freewill to choose their left from right, he must allow such to the end.

This is called Justice, Fairness, Equity, anything other than this makes him corrupt and even me myself would question why he lost his character that makes him God.

God knew Satan and what he is capable of, ofcourse but they were his angels from creation and Satan only became Satan because he wanted to be his own god.

Another clear proof God didn't create angels as bots, he created them with choice of freewill

I don't even know how the world or heaven would be if everything was just bots programmed to glorify God

It would have been boring and showcase God as one afraid of his shadow

Today humans and angels that are on God's side do so from their conviction


Meanwhile, you need to stick with one argument at a time instead of running about things you can't substanciate as regard Bible verses

Kobojunkie:
My interpretation? Interesting!.

So how about you tell us when it is that our relationship with Jesus Christ as our King/Master/Leader/Authority/Shepherd is slated to come to an end then?

When do we seize to be bound to the New Covenant Law that is Jesus Christ?

Say the Lord's Prayer right now that Jesus taught you to pray, OUR FATHER who art in heaven. That is who you are to pray/communicate with and no other, without any intercessions. If you want Yah to hear your prayers just pray with your heart not just repeating words.

khia:


Jesus the Christ taught his disciples the Lord's Prayer so they would know how to pray to Yah not himself.

Acts 7: 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Who did Stephen pray to ? Answer this question using scripture before you and heal yourself of the lie and delusion you have been taught by children of satan.....but if u refuse to see the truth in front of u then u have also made yourself lying filthy son or daughter of satan deceiving people with your perversed doctrine from the pit of hell

khia:

Say the Lord's Prayer right now that Jesus taught you to pray, OUR FATHER who art in heaven. That is who you are to pray/communicate with and no other, without any intercessions. If you want Yah to hear your prayers just pray with your heart not just repeating words.

How does this answer the question I asked you?

You claimed that my suggesting that the relationship we have with Jesus Christ is an eternal one is simply my interpretation and I ask you to tell me instead when you believe the relationship is slated to end then since you don't think that what we have is an eternal union.

When does Jesus Christ reign as King, the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God end?

When do we seize to be His servants and He our master?

It has to end for Jesus Christ to not be the eternal King , Law, Master, Shepherd over those of us who belong to Him. So when does this union we have with Jesus Christ end?

kramer:


Jesus never admonished them you say but then he never outrightly encouraged it either.. it's not recorded anywhere. In fact, he instead referred to God as another being several times, that is, my Father, Our Father and I believe that is what we should try to adhere to where there isn't a clear narrative.

I'm firmly of the belief that Jesus is not God but the son of God. That he had powers doesn't support the fact that he is God. All other prophets also performed miracles too via God. And if I recall, we (as Sons of God) are also able to perform miracles too.

The story about Moses is exactly the point I'm making, human instinct is based on associating the spiritual with the physical. The only way these poor Israelites felt they could reach God was through a physical thing or being, and that's the same with most other religions today including Christianity where God is associated with Jesus. It's human nature.

By the way, followers are the most likely to get things wrong. If you have a chat with a fervent RCCG church goer, he'll tell you that pastor Adeboye is his 'Daddy' and can do no wrong, despite the fact that he's just a mere man. Same with worshippers of TB Joshua and the controversial Oyakihlome. They will bow down and kiss the feet of these men forgetting that they are just Messengers. I believe this is exactly what happened to Jesus and what led the Jews to resent him even more.

Still on his his disciples / followers. Two things that have always struck me are the cases of Peter and Thomas. They both followed Jesus from early on and saw his amazing miracles including the raising of the dead and casting of demons right? Then why would Peter deny him three times? Especially if he knew Jesus was God the maker of all things. Why would Thomas doubt Jesus's resurrection as if such was impossible to God even though it had been done before with Lazarus? Do you not think it's because they knew Jesus was a messenger and not God.

I would have taken time to educate you but let me drop this which is from God himself narrated by Paul

Hebrews 1:6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

If God himself that owns worship can tell his angels to worship Jesus, who are you not to?

Btw it is extremely shallow of you to compare Jesus to prophets when he was I AM that created them

John 8:58

Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM

Hope you see why you shouldn't skip Sunday school

I am just here to read comments...thank God I don't worship a God my ancestors never knew.....

Make dem no go vex for me...

khia:


Jesus the Christ taught his disciples the Lord's Prayer so they would know how to pray to Yah not himself.

can you explain this for verse for us

Hebrews 1:6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”




Hebrew 1:8

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God will last for ever and ever

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Mikecold:
I would have taken time to educate you but let me drop this which is from God himself narrated by Paul

Hebrews 1:6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

If God himself that owns worship can tell his angels to worship Jesus, who are you not to?

Btw it is extremely shallow of you to compare Jesus to prophets when he was I AM that created them

John 8:58

Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM

Hope you see why you shouldn't skip Sunday school

Lol, your passive agressive jabs weren't necessary brother .

Just because Angels were asked to worship Jesus doesn't mean WE are expected to do so too. If I remember correctly, Angels and humans serve different purposes to God. We are made in HIS image and are basically sons of God, little wonder why a certain Angel got jealous and was determined to cause man's downfall. If I may refer to the Quran, it is even mentioned that Angels were instructed to bow down to Adam too.

Also, I note how you failed to address my last paragraph concerning Peter and Thomas. Your insight here would be appreciated if you're still up for it, but please let's be civil

kramer:


Lol, your passive agressive jabs weren't necessary brother .

Just because Angels were asked to worship Jesus doesn't mean WE are expected to do so too. If I remember correctly, Angels and humans serve different purposes to God. We are made in HIS image and are basically sons of God, little wonder why a certain Angel got jealous and was determined to cause man's downfall. If I may refer to the Quran, it is even mentioned that Angels were instructed to bow down to Adam too.

Also, I note how you failed to address my last paragraph concerning Peter and Thomas. Your insight here would be appreciated if you're still up for it, but please let's be civil

lol, what aggressive jabs

Please don't shift goal post o, you embarrassed yourself

I am a Christian so we are not at war

Hebrew 1:8

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God will last for ever and ever

My friend there is nothing like just because in scriptures o, they are all detailed ordinances of God

It's not for you to say "just because", by the way why don't you have being Bible passages to support your argument


The bolded is a scripture of Yaweh also calling Jesus God, so which Just because do you want to use again

I didn't see the Peter Thomas, I would reply it

Btw the angels bowing down to Adam is false, Quran is a fallacy that just twisted the Hebrew 1:6 verse to represent Adam when it was actually Jesus who was given authority over angels

How can Adam possibly be bowed to by angels , when humans too can't now to angels

They are almost the same spiritual beings, it would be tantamount to God doing idolatry with his creations

It only makes sense they now to his first begotten from the dead

Kobojunkie:
How does this answer the question I asked you?

You claimed that my suggesting that the relationship we have with Jesus Christ is an eternal one is simply my interpretation and I ask you to tell me instead when you believe the relationship is slated to end then since you don't think that what we have is an eternal union.

When does Jesus Christ reign as King, the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God end?

When do we seize to be His servants and He our master?

It has to end for Jesus Christ to not be the eternal King , Law, Master, Shepherd over those of us who belong to Him. So when does this union we have with Jesus Christ end?

To make it short, Yeshua was a great prophet.

khia:


To make it short, Yeshua was a great prophet.

To you muslims he was prophet

khia:
To make it short, Yeshua was a great prophet.

Was? Oh, I see!

Mikecold:
can you explain this for verse for us

Hebrews 1:6

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”






Hebrew 1:8

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God will last for ever and ever

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

.
1. We are not Yah's Angels.

2. You are talking about Yah's first born not Yeshua the Prophet.

Kobojunkie:
Was? Oh, I see!

Finally!

Mikecold:
lol, what aggressive jabs

Please don't shift goal post o, you embarrassed yourself

I am a Christian so we are not at war

Hebrew 1:8

But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God will last for ever and ever

Embarrassed myself how? You're the one who said we should worship Jesus because Angels did .. Anyway I wasn't seeing this as a competition but as two people trying to come to an understanding.

My questions remains unanswered concerning Peter and Thomas

Mikecold:
To you muslims he was prophet

I'm not a Muslim, I am of no religion which is man made, I believe in the Most High on a spiritual level and I am not an atheist.

khia:
.
1. We are not Yah's Angels.

2. You are talking about Yah's first born not Yeshua the Prophet.

lol you stucked now abi

But same Yaweh gave Jesus authority in heaven and the earth

If the higher creatures are worshipping him then what stops the lesser earth he was given same authority

khia:


I'm not a Muslim, I am of no religion which is man made, I believe in the Most High and I am not an atheist.

Yea, that's what all Muslims say

If you don't want to belief in Jesus then debate as athiest

If you want to debate about Bible Jesus then you must debate him as the son of God

If you want to debate him as a prophet then that's the Muslim leopard spot that would never change

Just pick one instead of talking from both sides of the mouth

Mikecold:
lol you stucked now abi

But same Yaweh gave Jesus authority in heaven and the earth

If the higher creatures are worshipping him then what stops the lesser earth he was given same authority

Do the Old testament say these things or Jesus the prophet followers?

khia:


Do the Old testament say these things?

Goal post shifting already?

Bible is Bible we are debating Jesus the Christian son of God

So whether it's the new or old testament that says it is not the issue

It's in the Bible unless you are a Muslim who have issues with Christian new testament

kramer:

Embarrassed myself how? You're the one who said we should worship Jesus because Angels did .. Anyway I wasn't seeing this as a competition but as two people trying to come to an understanding.

My questions remains unanswered concerning Peter and Thomas

Worship means to serve, to obey!. When you submit to and obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, you worship Him as the one who is Master over you, the one who is God's eternal Law in the Kingdom of God.

Mikecold:
Yea, that's what all Muslims say

If you don't want to belief in Jesus then debate as athiest

If you want to debate about Bible Jesus then you must debate him as the son of God

If you want to debate him as a prophet then that's the Muslim leopard spot that would never change

Just pick one instead of talking from both sides of the mouth

Now that you believe you are the wise prophet who can prophesize that I am a Muslim when I tell you I am not and have no reason to lie to a nobody about a religion that I have no connections with, this discussion is over. Continue with your false prophesizing.

kramer:
Still on his his disciples / followers. Two things that have always struck me are the cases of Peter and Thomas. They both followed Jesus from early on and saw his amazing miracles including the raising of the dead and casting of demons right? Then why would Peter deny him three times? Especially if he knew Jesus was God the maker of all things. Why would Thomas doubt Jesus's resurrection as if such was impossible to God even though it had been done before with Lazarus? Do you not think it's because they knew Jesus was a messenger and not God.

This is akin to asking why did Adam disobey God.

Kobojunkie:
How does this answer the question I asked you?

You claimed that my suggesting that the relationship we have with Jesus Christ is an eternal one is simply my interpretation and I ask you to tell me instead when you believe the relationship is slated to end then since you don't think that what we have is an eternal union.

When does Jesus Christ reign as King, the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God end?

When do we seize to be His servants and He our master?

It has to end for Jesus Christ to not be the eternal King , Law, Master, Shepherd over those of us who belong to Him. So when does this union we have with Jesus Christ end?

I have only ONE master, ONE lord and savior and he is the ONE and ONLY Yah. There's nothing more to be said on this discussion, that confession clears it all

khia:

I have only ONE master, ONE lord and savior and he is the ONE and ONLY Yah. There's nothing more to be said on this discussion, that confession clears it all

This discussion is about Jesus Christ, God's very own New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God.
So, if you are unable to approach questions asked of Him, then it is OK to remove yourself from this.

Kobojunkie:
This is akin to asking why did Adam disobey God.

Lol come on these are two different things now.

Firstly, Eve was tempted and lied to. She was naive and didn't know any better. Same with Adam, he was basically misled by Eve. Mind you, this was probably the first time ever that lies and deceit would happen in Eden.

As for Peter and Thomas. These men weren't tempted, they just didn't believe he was God. How else would you explain their predicament?

kramer:


Embarrassed myself how? You're the one who said we should worship Jesus because Angels did .. Anyway I wasn't seeing this as a competition but as two people trying to come to an understanding.

My questions remains unanswered concerning Peter and Thomas

About your Thomas and Peter question

To begin if you are a Christian as you claim you must see Jesus as son of God or a God in the Godhead

I believe this is a settled issue of what makes christianity and to start bringing the talk of messenger/prophet is just a cowardice narrative by Muslims and not christians

Peter you talked about has had his long history of lack of faith even when Jesus was around

He saw Jesus walking on the sea, he asked Jesus to bid him to come too, Jesus asked him to come and then Peter was walking with Jesus on water until the cares of life more or less taking his eyes off the presence of God to consider the size of the sea

That was when he started sinking instantly, does that mean he didn't believe in Jesus?

He believed everything he said about Jesus so much he he felt just a command to come into sea would make him walk on sea

So Jesus is not responsible for how much faith a person should have, Paul who wasn't with Jesus did more than those with him

The moment Peter took eyes off the focus Jesus told him just like at the sea he couldn't help himself but deny Jesus etc as the magnitude of the world had taken centre stage, none of the miracles etc could be remembered again

The same thing is the summary of Thomas

They had little faith, the thought of Jesus coming back to life seemed impossible to them not because they didn't know Jesus said he would, and Jesus himself raised many dead to life.

How would you even blame such people when even as Jesus gave them blank cheque to do any miracles in his name they still struggled to believe in their own self

kramer:

Lol come on these are two different things now.

Firstly, Eve was tempted and lied to. She was naive and didn't know any better. Same with Adam, he was basically misled by Eve. Mind you, this was probably the first time ever that lies and deceit would happen in Eden.

As for Peter and Thomas. These men weren't tempted, they just didn't believe he was God. How else would you explain their predicament?

So, Peter was not tempted? Andrew was not tempted? Is this a joke of some sort?

You think sin can happen without temptation? What do you really think temptation is? And does temptation even provide justification for any sin?

I am curious to know!.