Antivirus92: I wouldn't like to disturb this thread as i have vowed not to involve myself in such thing again. I like the thread odumchi even though alot of lies and contraditions are in it. Pls odumchi, tell ignorant people like chinenye and abagworo to keep off the thread. To odumchi and most people here,you guys don't still know what "igbo" really means and that's why you keep making mistakes.

Antivirus92: I wouldn't like to disturb this thread as i have vowed not to involve myself in such thing again. I like the thread odumchi even though alot of lies and contraditions are in it. Pls odumchi, tell ignorant people like chinenye and abagworo to keep off the thread. To odumchi and most people here,you guys don't still know what "igbo" really means and that's why you keep making mistakes.

NRI PRIEST: Don't wanna ridicule your thread but you will do well if you title it "Culture of the Aro-Igbo". [b]This isn't Nri culture [/b]even though you tried to subtly add a bit of it to make it look like what its not. Dude,change the danm title because Aro isn't PURE Igbo!

Ojiofor:

Why must it be Nri culture the smallest village in Anambra state?Do you think we southern Igbos are fooled by your constant lies that Eri founded Igboland.

Ojiofor: Glad you said 99% of Anambra communties or does Anambra now equals to Igboland?for your information in my area of Igboland we don't know and do not have any kind of your so called Nri influence be it cultural or political.So you can keep your so called influence within Anambra.If I may ask you, what influence does Nri/Eri have on people of old Bende division?Enough of your spremacist propaganda.Funny' we should be grateful for giving us red cap,sorry my father didn't wear them neither did my forefathers and I am not wearing one cos we dont do ur Nze na Ozo stuff so there is ain't nothing to be grateful for.

Ojiofor: Glad you said 99% of Anambra communties or does Anambra now equals to Igboland?for your information in my area of Igboland we don't know and do not have any kind of your so called Nri influence be it cultural or political.So you can keep your so called influence within Anambra.If I may ask you, what influence does Nri/Eri have on people of old Bende division?Enough of your spremacist propaganda.Funny' we should be grateful for giving us red cap,sorry my father didn't wear them neither did my forefathers and I am not wearing one cos we dont do ur Nze na Ozo stuff so there is ain't nothing to be grateful for.

NRI PRIEST:

The four Igbo market days is an Nri invention,the Ufiejioku/Iwaji/Ili ji are all Nri inventions. You don't wear a red hat but people from Abia do and even in Anambra not everybody wears the red hat. There are Nri settlements in Delta,Enugu and even northern Imo. And please I'm not a SUPREMACIST ! I am just saying that you southern Igbo should recognize the greatness of Nri and the pride it has given the Igbo and respect her. Take Nri out of the Igbo nation and the Igbo is nearly left without culture. Nwata kwochaa aka osolu ogalanya lie ife!

ChinenyeN: I see. Thank you for taking the time to expand on what you meant. I appreciate it. I would though like to make some comments on a few of the things you mentioned. I like discussions like this.

1. This is all about perspective. Taking it from a cultural perspective (of which it rightly is), we will see that the concept of a supreme being is not the same as "Chukwu". To really understand this, we have to look at the history behind Chukwu. Looking at the history behind Chukwu shows us that Chukwu is not simply a concept of 'Supreme Cosmic Being', but a religious institution. And history shows us that this institution is not some pan-Igbo thing, but rather it is historically particular to the Aro people. Communities throughout Igbo area and beyond all tell the same tale of Aro's precolonial association with the institution of Chukwu (fully realized as Chukwu Abiama/Obiama). I have yet to come across an instance in which a community, with the historical Chukwu Abiama institution, does not associate it with the Aro. I would still credit Aro (and mainly the missionaries) with the spread of "Chukwu". The little research we have on the subject-matter has shown that there existed no historical "Chukwu" institution, within these respective communities, until the Chukwu Abiama institution. The idea and usage of "Chukwu" among mainstream Igbo though, can be effectively credited to missionaries.

2. My perspective on Amadioha is also along the same lines as Chukwu. That "Amadiora" exists within the northern Igbo culture zone does not make Amadioha a pan-Igbo institution. Just as with Chukwu, Amadioha is historically particular to a people, the Ozuzu of Etche. Until this very day, there exists only two legitimate Amadioha oracles, Amadioha of Ozuzu and Igwekala of Umunnoha (which is an offshoot of Amadioha of Ozuzu). Research into the subject has shown that Amadioha's beginnings and existence is rooted in the slave trade (similar to Chukwu Abiama). For Amadioha to exist as the "Amadiora" institution, in the northern Igbo cultural institution suggests a later adoption of the institution via cultural diffusion (similar to Chukwu Abiama).

So, Odumchi, from the way I understand it, if you examined both topics from a cultural perspective (as would be proper), I see no real reason to believe you said anything particularly incorrect.

Ojiofor: If I may ask you, what influence does Nri/Eri have on people of old Bende division?Enough of your spremacist propaganda.Funny' we should be grateful for giving us red cap,sorry my father didn't wear them neither did my forefathers and I am not wearing one cos we dont do ur Nze na Ozo stuff so there is ain't nothing to be grateful for.

NRI PRIEST:
You don't wear a red hat but people from Abia

Abagworo: The truth is that Nri influence was restricted to Northern Imo State and much of Anambra and Enugu. Aro influence covered Igboland and beyond. I've taken out time to study Igbo and I'm still studying them. Like I've always maintained, the Igbo is an amalgamation of many peoples that lived independently in the past and have no definite universal culture that covers the entire Igbo. Things like Oparan, Ada, Oha, Ali, Ofo l'ogu and Chi are the major markers. The importance of Nshi people in their culture area is not in doubt but their relevance ends in there culture zone. Why is it difficult for them to understand? People from Nri culture zone cannot understand 80% of other Igbo languages.

Ojiofor:

You can claim whatever,I won't be giving Nri any special respect than other Igbo communities...my forefathers probably never knew Nri existed and they don't own you any gratitude.So just keep it there ok.Every Igbo culture must be tagged Nri according to you to be accepted as Igbo culture. that is a fat lie.

Odenigbo Aroli: And did I hear somebody say something like Ofor na Ogu,Chi and Okpala.....ahahahaha...wow. Well,I am not surprise. Arent you the same cat that said Onicha are Isu migrants. I wonder when ARo discovered these markers....15,16,17 or 18century? You are a pathetic LOSER! Even Umuoji has been using offor na ogu,knows the concept of Chi,Okpala and Ada before the ibibbio ans Aro war.talk more of the most ancient Nri towns like Aguleri,Umuleri and Agukwu. Abeg shift your focuse to Ekpe,Okonko,Nsibidi and Ukpabi. They even borrowed some of these from their neigbhors. Nri bu nkpologwu Ndigbo!

[b]The Oka people believe, up to this day, that in all Igbo land they are the most ancient nation, and that no other nation surpasses them in antiquity. They believe that others took the names of their gods from them, as well as the names of the days of their week-Eke, Oye, Avbo and Nkwo. Whether their claims can be made out, is for future researchers to settle. Suffice it to say that Oka as a town is very long in history. When the Onitshas came, the Okas were there. When the Nris came they were there…


Ethnographically, and historically, the town of Aguleri is made up of three major quarters of distinct origins. They include in the order of seniority; Ivite, Ikenga, which constitutes the villages of Igbezunu and Umunkete and Ugwu na Adegbe, also known as Enugwu and Ezi villages. Here, the Okpu Village of Ivite quarters represents the aboriginal or what we earlier defined as the primary settlers and this Ivite claims that they were already there when Eri and other groups came to join them. Eri, definitely an Igala warrior, is said to have founded the present Igbezunu village of Ikenga quarters while the other half, Umunkete was founded by the followers of Onoja Oboni, another Igala warrior who invaded Aguleri many years after Eri. Similarly, the Umuezeora kindred claims to have migrated from what they referred to as Idu-Ime which translated could mean the old Bini kingdom.[/b]

Odenigbo Aroli:

You see what happens when you disrespect your father is you get disciplined and discipline can come in different forms. Just because i am an Nri decendant doesnt mean you owe me gratitude but we must learn how to humble ourselves and accept the truth. Do you know that Yoruba didnt have anything like days of the week,months of the year like Igbo do. Without Nri your forefathers will just be like these Yorubas. Benin kingdom used Nri week days and the Ikenga deity was worshipped by both Uhrobo,Bini,Aro and Igala. Swallow your pride and at least pay homage to Nri. All these your fellow southern Igbo who are here running their fingers has used Nri as a beacon of pride whenever they are ridiculled by tribalists from other tribe how would they now come and tried to neglet nor denigrate her. Imagine telling an Igbo history and begins with Aro masqurade. It brings shame to Igboland because Aro has a bad reputation and is not really known for their deep history nor their cultural flamboyance

Abagworo:

You keep repeating the bolded. Onitsha believe they are rooted in Benin and not Isu so stop the crap. We only erroneously referred to all of the North of us as Isuama in the past. Nri came to Anambra in the 1600s almost the same time Arochukwu was founded in Ibom. Igboukwu is not Nri and no artifact has been found in Nri. Igboukwu people are autochtonous like most other people around them like Awka. Nri came from Igala and were given land by the autochtonous people. It is a betrayal of trust for you to turn around and claim that you founded their land and culture. Aguleri in itself also has its own share of Bini elements like some other Igbos.

Ojiofor:

The truth as told by Nri people eh kwa,until you prove your claims with scientific evidence that Nri gave Ndigbo week days and Ikenga...BTW,is Eri Jewish or Igala origin?I had your Eze saying Eri was son of Gad...

Odenigbo Aroli: Now Eri is an Igala warrior? Dude,forget about Anambra history and worry about your people because you are beginning to upset me and i dont wanna curse you. How can Awka prove that they are the most ancient? One word is synonymous with most Anambra groups and that is "Ifite"/"Ivite". Anambra is homogeneous,except for a tiny igala group in the north. One thing about Anambra is that all the towns share same deity. Ogwugwu and Ikenga. Yes the Nri met an Igbo group named Adama on arrival but they were absorbed and dominated by the more powerful Nri culture. Stop trying to claim Anambra groups because we are very different. And the Ogboli Eke of Onicha is Nri and so is 80% of Anioma. Dude,leave Anambra alone and try and trace your lineage because like you said we are different in origin. I dont know where tha hell you guys originated from but we are not the same.

Abagworo:

Stop using Anambra here to raise unnecessary sentiments because Anambra is a very recent political creation and has been re-arranged severally. Abakaliki was once in Anambra State and so was Enugu. So if Orashi State is created and Ihiala/Onitsha/Ogbaru is removed then another Anambra will emerge. The truth is that the Awka received Nri and not the other way round.

The Awka people believe, up to this day, that in all
Igbo land they are the most ancient nation, and
that no other nation surpasses them in antiquity.
They believe that others took the names of their
gods from them, as well as the names of the days
of their week-Eke, Oye, Avbo and Nkwo. Whether
their claims can be made out, is for future
researchers to settle. Suffice it to say that Oka as
a town is very long in history. When the Onitshas
came, the Okas were there. When the Nris came
they were there…


Ethnographically, and historically, the town of
Aguleri is made up of three major quarters of
distinct origins. They include in the order of
seniority; Ivite, Ikenga, which constitutes the
villages of Igbezunu and Umunkete and Ugwu na
Adegbe, also known as Enugwu and Ezi villages.
Here, the Okpu Village of Ivite quarters
represents the aboriginal or what we earlier
defined as the primary settlers and this Ivite
claims that they were already there when Eri and
other groups came to join them. Eri, definitely an
Igala warrior, is said to have founded the present
Igbezunu village of Ikenga quarters while the
other half, Umunkete was founded by the
followers of Onoja Oboni, another Igala warrior
who invaded Aguleri many years after Eri.
Similarly, the Umuezeora kindred claims to have
migrated from what they referred to as Idu-Ime
which translated could mean the old Bini
kingdom.


Writing as far back as 1955, the Aguleri-born M.C.M. Idigo settled this matter of Igala home-base of Eri thus:
The Aguleri people originated from Igara and migrated to their present abode about three or four centuries ago. The leader Eri, a warrior, took his people on a war expedition, and after long travel and many fights, established his camp at Eri-aka, near odanduli stream, a place which lies between Ifite and Igbezunu Aguleri. Eri, with his solders, went out regularly from his settlement to Urada, Nnadi and other surrounding towns on war raids and captured many of the inhabitants. These were the Ibo-speaking people and by mixing with them and inter-marriage, the immigrants adopted the language.

odumchi: Nice response, Chinenye. I'll get back to you very soon.



Omara omaragbaa, ndaa aga I mere? O dila ezi anya nza m nusoro mkpotu gi.

odumchi:

You're right. The Delphic "Chukwu Abiama" is intrinsically related to Aro, so therefore "Chukwu" came to be associated with Aro through Aro dealings and Ibini Ukpabi. When we Aro desire to refer to God as an all-knowing prophetic being who, as chief arbitrator of all conflicts, holds all the knowledge in the universe, we call Him "Chukwu". When we choose to describe his more remote and estranged characteristics, we refer to him as "Obasi". What I've realized is that although Chi Ukwu is not exactly an Aro brainchild, in the centuries prior to the missionaries, it was used to refer to the case-settling deity that was believed to reside at Arochukwu.

Let's imagine a scenario. Let's say you and I were farmers who lived in the Ngwa zone sometime in the mid 19th century, and for several years, we have been disputing a particular stretch of land. Now, I then threaten to take our case to "Chukwu" in Arochukwu. Once I mention "Chukwu", you understand that I am making reference to the Aro deity in particular even though our own people's supreme god, Chiokike/Chileke, is also recognized chi ukwu. In other words, in the various culture zones, there are various chi ukwu, but in Aro there is only one Chukwu. I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

And thanks for the clearup on Amadioha. What I'd like to know now are the exact means through which Amadioha and the whole concept of amadi and ohu/oru reached areas of the north that are supposedly under Nri cultural influence.