ChinenyeN:

This is where I think people start getting it wrong, especially when it comes to discussing Igbo dynamics. In my opinion, the question isn't even a good question to ask for several reasons.

1. Virtually all human spirituality is the same at its core.
2. The question gives way for people to make unstandardized assumptions as to what "Igbo" spirituality is.
3. The question seems to devoid spirituality of the cultural context that surrounds it.

Anyway, that is just so we understand each other, in terms of perspective. I don't view the distinction as being rooted in the aspects, but rather in the holistic outlook.

On to the question. One thing, at the core of my community's spirituality, that quickly comes to mind is that the spiritual concepts of arusi/alusi "deities" are not a part of my community's traditional spirituality. In place of arusi/alusi we have agwhu. Unlike arusi/alusi, agwhu do not represent supernatural forces/beings, but rather naturalistic elements, and they are not deified. Agwhu have a more ritualistic purpose and are not supernatural.

Another thing that comes to mind is that our spirituality traditionally lacks "eze". Prior to the mid-20th century, there were no "eze" in my community. Traditional spirituality, in our community, was devoid of "priests". Instead, the Onye nnwe ala (lineage head, also the possessor of ofo ukwu) officiated at the main spiritual rites of the community. By the mid-20th century (when "eze"-ship began to permeate into my community, as a rebranding of the warrant chief system), the Onye nnwe ala also came to be referred to as "Eze ofo" or "Eze muo", though Onye nnwe ala remains the preferred expression in my community.

There are more, but it becomes increasingly difficult to attempt to discuss each of these aspects of spirituality outside of their cultural contexts. Whole articles can be written about each one, because simply saying "we do this" or "we don't have that" often requires an explanation.

As for tracing history, the common tradition we share with communities in Mbaise (who we recognize ancestral kinship with and vice versa) traces our history back to creation, saying that our current locale is the same place that Chileke created our ancestors.

Ermmm...
What do you understand as Alusi or Arushi (that's how my people call it)?
I'll also like to know what your 'agwhu' is and how it works.
Arushi and agwu as I know it are similar though one cannot stand in or serve as a replacement for the other!
Arushi has a wider jurisdiction than agwu.
"Agwhu" as I know it is personal while arushi operates over a wider sphere.
Are there any group of people in Africa nay "Igbo" land that don't have arushi? The answer is no!

On the eze thingy, that's a non-issue.
That's the case in most of "Igbo" land.

Been modifying...

kwangi: Are there any group of people in Africa nay "Igbo" land that don't have arushi? The answer is no!

First things first, let's nip behavior like this in the bud. Please discontinue making statements like these. You're starting to sound a lot like Nri Priest. You're making assumptions about another's culture. Next, you may try to convince me that my community has "arushi". Before long, a potentially meaningful discussion will degenerate into useless back-and-forth. Understand that I'm not saying this to be rude. I'm just more interested in holding a discussion than I am in having an argument.

Anyway, back to the topic. As I stated earlier, there's nothing in my people's traditional spirituality that we call "arushi" (or any other variant thereof), but we have what we call "agwhu". In our traditional worldview, agwhu are neither spirits nor supernatural beings of any kind. Rather, agwhu are the personification of ideologies and/or naturalistic elements. Agwhu are never deified, simply personified, and the function they serve is ritualistic.

For example, a hunter who is very fond of hunting could carve a small twig, if he is so compelled, and call it "Ohia" to personify the connection he as a hunter feels to the forest. Or a lineage that is into fishing could carve their own small twig (or if they prefer, a large tree stump) as a monument or testament of their family's fishing legacy and call it whatever they want. These are agwhu, in our traditional worldview. These agwhu can be anything from respective to one individual to respective to an entire community (or entire communities). Each person, lineage or community, etc. will have their respective rites and rituals associated with their respective agwhu, but the agwhu themselves are never supernatural. They are never thought of or treated as divinities to be worshiped. That's how it is for us.

I don't know what "agwu" is for your people or what the distinction is between "arushi" and "agwu". You may just have to explain those two elements of your spirituality to me.

A similar concept exists in Aro culture because we too have agwu and arunsi. For example, if a family reveres an ancestral mask, the spirit of the mask would be known as arunsi, while the actual shrine (place) where the mask is located would be called ivu agwu (the face of a shrine).

^^laughing so hard at that chiding at the beginning of your post.


Anyway, agw(h)u means exactly the same thing where I come from.
Like I said, arushi and agwu are of the same nature but not the same in the sense that one cannot assume the responsibility of the other.
However, from MY understanding of agwu, it may, over time, 'grow' to become an arushi.
You are trying to use words like "supernatural, spirit, naturalistic..." to make these concepts look distinct, but they are not. At least not the way you painted the picture.
Trust me, if the idea of agwu exists in your community then arushi is right there with it!
Whether both concepts have been merged in your spirituality is what I'm gonna find out.
"The non-existence of arushi as you claim is impossible". Hold me to this statement!
I really need to discuss this your claim with another Ngwa person for better understanding.

odumchi: A similar concept exists in Aro culture because we too have agwu and arunsi. For example, if a family reveres an ancestral mask, the spirit of the mask would be known as arunsi, while the actual shrine (place) where the mask is located would be called ivu agwu (the face of a shrine).

Liked!

I wasn't chiding. I was expressing an honest opinion. Anyway, what I explained is the traditional understanding I grew up with, as it has been explained to me by people in my lineage. We don't use the term "arushi" etc. or have anything that we call "arushi" etc. in our traditional cosmology. We simply refer to spirits and divinities as "muo".

^okay.
I think we have an understanding.
You know, the reason I asked those questions in the first place was to blur that "distinction" thingy you are so passionate about.
Not trying to take anything away from your people's uniqueness as a group but to tell you that their is a connection which transcends mere living together or proximity.
Those Nri claims can be really annoying!
But it's my belief that Igbo history is not understood and the Nri gist is a misguided assertion by the British!

I guess you may also be able understand my reasoning for remaining passionate about my distinction.

What connection are you talking about? Do you mean cultural similarity?

^^Yeah... I totally get your reasons.
The connection? Yeah... "Cultural similarity"

Oh okay.

ChinenyeN: Oh okay.

This is laden...
What do you mean?

I think it is best we analyze Igbo culture and that way expose the differences and similarities from clan to clan. For example does the "Oha" title exist in Nri/Awka cultural zone in the past or was Nze n'ozo title an entire Igbo thing? Was it all Igbos that practised "Owu" or "Owumiri" masked dance? Was it all Igbos that had the "Ekpo"? Was the Ekpe an Igbowide thing? Was it all Igbo communities that observed the 4day market system? Were our naming patterns similar? What was the origin of "Nmanwu" and was it spread across the entire Igbo area?

Good questions!
Where I come from, we ain't got no nze n'ozo.

Abagworo: I think it is best we analyze Igbo culture and that way expose the differences and similarities from clan to clan. For example does the "Oha" title exist in Nri/Awka cultural zone in the past or was Nze n'ozo title an entire Igbo thing? Was it all Igbos that practised "Owu" or "Owumiri" masked dance? Was it all Igbos that had the "Ekpo"? Was the Ekpe an Igbowide thing? Was it all Igbo communities that observed the 4day market system? Were our naming patterns similar? What was the origin of "Nmanwu" and was it spread across the entire Igbo area?

Are there any people that don't have four market days?

odumchi: Are there any people that don't have four market days?

In the Lower Niger region, virtually all groups share a culture of eight "market days". Whether its an expansion of four days or just simply eight depends on the respective community.

In fact, the four/four-eight market day week culture seems pretty common throughout West Africa, from what I've seen.

ChinenyeN:
In the Lower Niger region, virtually all groups share a culture of eight "market days". Whether its an expansion of four days or just simply eight depends on the respective community.

In fact, the four/four-eight market day week culture seems pretty common throughout West Africa, from what I've seen.

In those areas, do the market days still go by: Eke, Orie/Oye, Afo/Awho/Avo, and Nkwo, or do they have completely different names?

Different names.

Since 2011? Na now mods wake up?

Anqry mode...continue drinkinq my palm wine,hw cn a 2011 make frontpaqe 2013.And same people qo complain say d country nor dey move forward...Smh

I LOVE Igbo culture, it's very original!

It's a pity that a lot of African culture is being lost.

Andre Uweh:
You are right. The Igbo culture has incorporated some aspects of Yoruba, Ijo and Bini cultures. Other cultures are incorporating Igbo ways of life in their own systems as well. For example, some Yoruba musicians now sing songs in Igbo or have a mixture of Igbo in their songs. Notable examples are D-Banj and Midnight crew ''Igwe'' songs.

[/color][color=#770077]....one thing I know very well,we may not have it all,but we borrow nothing from the hausa tribe.I would've loved a little bit of that.

OP ignores the fact that Igbos are highly tribalistic and xenophobic of other ethnic groups while they themselves spread to every corner of the world like locusts.

Some of those pictures have Igbos wearing Yoruba clothing. Igbos were bare chested men and women and probably only wore straws when the Europeans arrived in Nigeria.

wow this thread is as ancient as the Kingdom of Nri itself. .

[size=16pt]WHY ISNT ANYONE SHOWING THE REAL IGBO CLOTHES[/size]


THOSE CLOTHES ON THE 1ST PAGE ARE NOT REAL IGBO CLOTHES! THEY ARE JUST GENERAL AFRICAN CLOTHING.


THESE ARE [size=32pt]REAL [/size] IGBO CLOTHES AND TRAD. ATTIRE:







[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/band3.JPG[/img]

[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/nkporo12.JPG[/img]



[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/awka4.JPG[/img]



[img]http://yemitom.files./2012/05/igbo2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/ekpafia8.JPG[/img]

qhiwegh:

Some of those pictures have Igbos wearing Yoruba clothing. [size=32pt] Igbos were bare chested men and women and probably only wore straws when the Europeans arrived in Nigeria.
[/size]

EXACTLY! ITS FOR SHAME! THEY HAVE LOST THEIR ORIGINNAL CLOTHING SENSE! SEE HOW WE BOTH THOUGHT OF IT AT THE SAME TIME!

[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/asaga7.JPG[/img]

Omenani(Omenala) Ndigbo is varied just like the various dialects in Igboland. It's the misunderstanding or failure to recognise those varieties that fuels the culture of disunity in Igboland.

Andre Uweh:
You are right. The Igbo culture has incorporated some aspects of Yoruba, Ijo and Bini cultures. Other cultures are incorporating Igbo ways of life in their own systems as well. For example, some Yoruba musicians now sing songs in Igbo or have a mixture of Igbo in their songs. Notable examples are D-Banj and Midnight crew ''Igwe'' songs.

also some owere musicans garnish dia music with hausa language example owigiri,chima eke nd co all bongo musican.and it also. Suprising how ibos are gragualy adopting the normencleture ; nama to mean cow but meat as the actual meaning in hausa language

PAGAN 9JA:


EXACTLY! ITS FOR SHAME! THEY HAVE LOST THEIR ORIGINNAL CLOTHING SENSE! SEE HOW WE BOTH THOUGHT OF IT AT THE SAME TIME!

[img]http://mccoy.lib.siu.edu/jmccall/jones/igbo/asaga7.JPG[/img]

That is a case of an ancient people with dual personality;using each as situations warrant all geared toward painting an exaggerated history of the old easterners.

I read every single post, DAMN... What an interesting read