@ Pilgrim

I had initially ignored ur recurring question about the tiltles I posted for our blessed Lady because I was hoping u would go back and study them properly. I guess since u've done that and still have issues, the problem must need addressing. I'll repeat the list with explanations and I hope that though this is not the complete list of 6,000, u would be so kind as to apply the underlying theme to the list you have. Also, please note that my explanations are not exhaustive. I'll only open a thought process and pray that Holy Spirit enlightens you accordingly. U know, the Lord enlightens those he wills.

The many Titles of our blessed Mary:

Holy Mary - Mary is holy because God said so, because she is the only human being of the same flesh with Christ.
 
Holy Mother of God   - Mary has this title because she is the Mother of Christ, who has said he is one with God. By the way @ Pilgrim, do u also doubt the divinity of Jesus?
 
Holy Virgin of virgins   - Mary is first among virgins
 
Mother of Christ   - Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ
 
Mother of divine grace   - Jesus is divine grace personified. His presence in the womb of Mary made her 'full of grace'
 
Mother most pure   - Jesus Christ, being of God, cannot endure or exist within the slightest impurity. As such, God made our blessed Mother free from ALL impurity and sin to enable her carry the divinity in her womb
 
Mother most chaste   - Jesus Christ, being of God, cannot endure or exist within the slightest lack of chastity. As such, God made our blessed Mother free from ALL impurity and sin to enable her carry the divinity in her womb
 
Mother inviolate   - Our blessed Mother is pure and untouched by sin
 
Mother undefiled   - Our blessed Mother is not defiled by sin
 
Mother most amiable   - Our blessed Mother is kind, pleasant, in all things good natured and appealing to good souls
 
Mother most admirable   - Our blessed Mother possesses qualities that have endeared her even to God, to extent that she was most favoured by the Most High
 
Mother of good counsel   - Jesus himself is good counsel. Beyond that, our blessed Mary guides her children with divine wisdom (I hope u also know that Jesus is THE Divine Wisdom)
 
Mother of our Creator   - our Lady bears thsi title because Jesus is of one substance with God. This is a title which, of all others, we should have thought it impossible for any creature to possess. At first sight we might be tempted to say that it throws into confusion our primary ideas of the Creator and the creature, the Eternal and the temporal, the Self-subsisting and the dependent; and yet on further consideration we shall see that we cannot refuse the title to Mary without denying the Divine Incarnation -- that is, the great and fundamental truth of revelation, that God became man.
 
Mother of our Savior   - our blessed Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Jesus is our Savior
 
Virgin most prudent   - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most wise, ever careful and ever cautious. So full of divine discretion
 
Virgin most venerable - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most esteemed by God, honoured by all who know her (emphasis on the word 'know' pls) . It is a great history, a great character, a maturity of virtue, goodness, experience, that excite our reverence, and these are the qualities of our blessed Lady.
 
Virgin most renowned   - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most distinguished, she is celebrated by her Son, by all the angels and by all her children
 
Virgin most powerful   - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most powerful because of her sole position as Daughter of the Father, Mother of the Son and Spouse of the Holy Spirit
 
Virgin most merciful   - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most compassionate, gracious and forgiving.
 
Virgin most faithful   - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most devoted. So much so that at Jesus' death, when even his closest apostles denied him, she escourted all the way up calvary, stood through his crucifixion at the foot of the cross, and even received his death body in her arms
 
Mirror of justice   - our blessed Mary is the Mirror of sanctity, holiness, supernatural goodness
 
Seat of wisdom   - our blessed Mary has this title because the Son of God, who is also called in Scripture the Word and Wisdom of God, once dwelt in her, and then, after His birth of her, was carried in her arms and seated in her lap in His first years. Thus, being as it were, the human throne of Him who reigns in heaven
 
Cause of our joy   - When Jesus was born, the Angels sang 'Joy to the World'. We have that Joy because our blessed Mary said 'YES'
 
Spiritual vessel   - our blessed Mary is the vessel through which Jesus came to us physically, and still comes to us spiritually. When we have recourse to her, she leads us only to Jesus
 
Vessel of honor   - elect souls are called vessels of honour: of honour, because they are elect or chosen; and vessels, because, through the love of God, they are filled with God's heavenly and holy grace. How much more then is Mary a vessel of honour by reason of her having within her, not only the grace of God, but the very Son of God, formed as regards His flesh and blood out of her!
 
Singular vessel of devotion   - Great was teh devotion of the Blessed Virginto our Lord because she was His Mother, and because she had Him and all His sufferings actually before her eyes, and because she had the long intimacy of thirty years with Him, and because she was from her special sanctity so ineffably near to Him in spirit. When, then, He was mocked, bruised, scourged, and nailed to the Cross, she felt as keenly as if every indignity and torture inflicted on Him was struck at herself. She could have cried out in agony at every pang of His.
 
Mystical rose   - our blessed Mary is the choice, delicate, perfect flower of God's spiritual creation.
 
Tower of David   - A Tower in its simplest idea is a fabric for defence against enemies. She is called the Tower of David because she had so signally fulfilled the office of defending her childrem from the assaults and snares of the enemy. (I hope there no questions about Mary being a descendant of the House of David).
 
Tower of ivory   - our blessed Lady is called the Tower of Ivory, to suggest to us, by the brightness, purity, and exquisiteness of that material, how transcendent is the loveliness and the gentleness of the Mother of God.
 
House of gold   - WHY is she called a House? And why is she called Golden? Mary is called golden; because her graces, her virtues, her innocence, her purity, are of that transcendent brilliancy and dazzling perfection, so costly, so exquisite, that the angels cannot, so to say, keep their eyes off her any more than we could help gazing upon any great work of gold.  She is the house and the palace of the Great King, of God Himself. Our Lord, the Co-equal Son of God, once dwelt in her. He was her Guest; nay, more than a guest, for a guest comes into a house as well as leaves it. But our Lord was actually born in this holy house. He took His flesh and His blood from this house, from the flesh, from the veins of Mary.
 
Ark of the Covenant   - The Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament  contained the Law of the Old Covenant, while Our Lady conceived, carried in her womb for nine months, and gave birth to her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who established in His Person the New Covenant. Just as the New Covenant surpasses the Old, so the new Ark of the Covenant (Our Lady) is superior to the old. The old Ark contained the word of God inscribed on stone tablets, but the new Ark contained the Incarnate Word of God.
 
Gate of Heaven   - MARY is called the Gate of Heaven because it was through her that our Lord passed from heaven to earth.  
 
Morning star  -  it is Mary's prerogative to be the Morning Star, which heralds in the sun. She does not shine for herself, or from herself, but she is the reflection of her and our Redeemer, and she glorifies Him. When she appears in the darkness, we know that He is close at hand. He is Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
 
Health of the sick -  our blessed Mary brings health to the souls that are spiritually sick, to her children who are physically infirm, all through her intercession with the divine son.
 
Refuge of sinners -  our blessed Mary shields her children from judgement by obtaining mercy for them from her son. why should we wonder at hearing that Mary, the only spotless child of Adam's seed, has a transcendent influence with the God of grace? is it strange that the Mother should have power with the Son?
 
Comforter of the afflicted  - This is the secret of true consolation: those are able to comfort others who in their own case have been much tried, and have felt the need of consolation, and have received it. And this is why the Blessed Virgin is the comforter of the afflicted. And she especially can console us because she suffered more than mothers in general.
 
Help of Christians   - our glorious Queen high, has been the minister of countless services to the elect people of God upon earth, and to His Holy Church.
 
Queen of angels   - This title is directly connected with the Maternity of Mary, that is, with the coming upon her of the Holy Ghost at Nazareth after the Angel Gabriel's annunciation to her, and with the consequent birth of our Lord at Bethlehem. She, as the Mother of our Lord, comes nearer to Him than any angel; nearer even than the Seraphim who surround Him, and cry continually, "Holy, Holy, Holy."
 
Queen of patriarchs   - Mary's nobility is clearly explained in Matthew (1,17), and Luke (3,23-38), in outlining the three groups of fourteen generations from Abraham to Christ, describes Her as born of fourteen patriarchs, of fourteen kings, of fourteen leaders, describing the nobility of Her origin beginning with Adam and Eve, and terminating this genealogy with Christ. The  Blessed Virgin is the noblest Woman in the whole world according to the flesh.
 
Queen of prophets   - the Prophets were highly honored by both Jews and Gentiles on account of their holy lives, their many sufferings , their great zeal for the Law of God, and their miracles and prophecies. But above them all in honor and suffering is our blessed Mary, whom Isaias called the "prophetess" and "Virgin" and Mother of the Divine Redeemer
 
Queen of apostles   - This title represents Mary's mission to give Jesus to the world. Mary's queenship is a title of service. God the Father has entrusted the noblest service to her: to give Jesus to the world. It is same mission of the apostles, only that it is Mary who does it to perfection
 
Queen of martyrs   - What an overwhelming horror it must have been for the Blessed Mary to witness the Passion and the Crucifixion of her Son! it must be recollected that the pains of the soul may be as fierce as those of the body. Bad men who are now in hell are suffering only in their souls, for their bodies are still in the dust; yet how severe is that suffering! She is, indeed, Queen of all  those who were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

 
Queen of confessors   - our blessed Mary is the Queen of Confessors, that is, the saints who in the various positions and states of life persevered in the confession of the faith and in the practice of virtue, and who proved themselves to be true and faithful followers of Jesus, not by the death of martyrdom, but by a holy life. She is their Queen because she fulfilled most perfectly the duties of religion, of herr state in life, and of the love of her neighbor, and made the most excellent profession of Jesus Christ.
 
Queen of virgins -  our blessed Mary is the Queen of Virgins because she was the first among all the daughters of Eve to make the Lord the solemn promise of perpetual chastity. Because by the splendor of her purity she far surpasses all the virgins that have ever lived or shall live in ages to come. Because she infuses love for chastity into the hearts of Christians.
 
Queen of all saints   - our blessed Mary is indeed, Queen of all who have suffered here on earth for Christ, and are now with him in Heaven. What an overwhelming horror it must have been for the Blessed Mary to witness the Passion and the Crucifixion of her Son! If our Lord Himself could not bear the prospect of what was before Him, and was covered in the thought of it with a bloody sweat, His soul thus acting upon His body, does not this show how great mental pain can be? Behold our blessed Mary as she stood under His Cross!
 
Queen conceived without Original Sin   - our blessed Mary from the first moment of her conception, possessed sanctifying grace, even the fullness of grace. If God Himself had announced from the beginning of the world that Mary was destined "to crush the head" of the infernal serpent, she could not have begun her life by being wounded herself by his poisonous bite and subject to his power. Jesus cannot endure sin in any form, and so could not have dwelt in a womb tainted by original sin.
 
Queen assumed into Heaven   - Mary was taken body and soul into heaven at the end of her life. Death and corruption are a result of original sin; but by her Immaculate Conception our blessed Mary is preserved from original sin and its effects. By her Assumption God honored her body that was always the temple in which He dwelt by grace. It was a gate through which the Son of God, the Divine Word, passed to earth and became Man. It was fitting that her holy and virginal body which gave flesh and blood to the God of all sanctity, the Victor over death, should never experience the corruption of the grave.
 
Queen of the most holy Rosary   - OUr Lady herself said " I am the Lady of the Rosary". Through it, we obtain blessings for soul and body, peace for the world, freedom for the Church, the conversion of sinners, and the salvation of our souls.
 
Queen of peace   - our blessed Mary bears this title because she gave us the Savior of the world, she brought Jesus, the King of Peace, into the world.  
 
Every second literally, of every day, for the last 2000 years, some one has been repeating the words of the Bible in some part of the world, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus",

How fortunate, that I have the Mother of my Lord speak on my behalf at all times!!!

, Indeed, it is bewildering that some professing Christians who claim to believe the Bible never call Mary blessed nor honor her who bore and raised God the Son in His human flesh.

I remain,
PROUDLY CATHOLIC!!  
Catholic For Life!!!!!!!!!!!  
Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!!!!

A few of your posts caught my attention just in passing:

soldee:

Queen conceived without Original Sin - our blessed Mary from the first moment of her conception, possessed sanctifying grace, even the fullness of grace. If God Himself had announced from the beginning of the world that Mary was destined "to crush the head" of the infernal serpent, she could not have begun her life by being wounded herself by his poisonous bite and subject to his power.

Jesus cannot endure sin in any form, and so could not have dwelt in a womb tainted by original sin.

So why do we have this ?:

Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Why did Mary go up for purification from her sins? You guys have refused to come up to the reality of the truth. You are just shying away and your heart is telling you so but you would rather defend fallacies!

See more:

Leviticus 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. Your holy mary was declared unclean by the same Word of God. She herself knew it and therefore had to go and purify herself.

They just push things down your throat and you swallow it? The bible declares that all have sinned (including Mary - Original Sin) (Rms. 3:23) and you come up with your own version of the bible (with the devil deceiving) saying that logically, Jesus could not have dwelt in anything unclean and could not have come through someone who had original sin. I know very soon one of you will come up and say your popes too never had original sin or Peter too never had!

soldee:
Queen assumed into Heaven - Mary was taken body and soul into heaven at the end of her life. Death and corruption are a result of original sin; but by her Immaculate Conception our blessed Mary is preserved from original sin and its effects. By her Assumption God honored her body that was always the temple in which He dwelt by grace. It was a gate through which the Son of God, the Divine Word, passed to earth and became Man. It was fitting that her holy and virginal body which gave flesh and blood to the God of all sanctity, the Victor over death, should never experience the corruption of the grave.

A doctrine in demonolgy. Need i say more? Assume I am deply worried. Assume for God? You will agree with me that you are not bible believing set of people. Your own form of religion goes outside the bible because you believe the traditions of your church equates or even surpasses the bible! Little wonder you people don't read the bible because some body has told you that you cannot depend on the bible. Well done.

soldee:

, Indeed, it is bewildering that some professing Christians who claim to believe the Bible never call Mary blessed nor honor her who bore and raised God the Son in His human flesh.

So it is now a sin becaue i have refused to swallow the doctrins of demons. Show me from your bible (i dont mind the ones preserved exclusively for catholics) where any of the apostles said "Ave Maria" of Honour to Mary. So if i dont say that, i am not a true christian abi? Please show me the gospel or epistle of whoever where it was declard any of the founders of the early church did that. I am waiting!

soldee, this title is one of the dearest to me:

Seat of wisdom - our blessed Mary has this title because the Son of God, who is also called in Scripture the Word and Wisdom of God, once dwelt in her, and then, after His birth of her, was carried in her arms and seated in her lap in His first years. Thus, being as it were, the human throne of Him who reigns in heaven

don't waste your time with these pple just like i advised ebos all you will get is

So it is now a sin becaue i have refused to swallow the doctrins of demons. Show me from your bible (i don't mind the ones preserved exclusively for catholics) where any of the apostles said "Ave Maria" of Honour to Mary. So if i don't say that, i am not a true christian abi? Please show me the gospel or epistle of whoever where it was declard any of the founders of the early church did that. I am waiting!

and this

So why do we have this ?:

Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Why did Mary go up for purification from her sins? You guys have refused to come up to the reality of the truth. You are just shying away and your heart is telling you so but you would rather defend fallacies!

See more:

Leviticus 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. Your holy mary was declared unclean by the same Word of God. She herself knew it and therefore had to go and purify herself.

They just push things down your throat and you swallow it? The bible declares that all have sinned (including Mary - Original Sin) (Rms. 3:23) and you come up with your own version of the bible (with the devil deceiving) saying that logically, Jesus could not have dwelt in anything unclean and could not have come through someone who had original sin. I know very soon one of you will come up and say your popes too never had original sin or Peter too never had!


Quote from: soldee
Queen assumed into Heaven - Mary was taken body and soul into heaven at the end of her life. Death and corruption are a result of original sin; but by her Immaculate Conception our blessed Mary is preserved from original sin and its effects. By her Assumption God honored her body that was always the temple in which He dwelt by grace. It was a gate through which the Son of God, the Divine Word, passed to earth and became Man. It was fitting that her holy and virginal body which gave flesh and blood to the God of all sanctity, the Victor over death, should never experience the corruption of the grave.


A doctrine in demonolgy. Need i say more? Assume I am deply worried. Assume for God? You will agree with me that you are not bible believing set of people. Your own form of religion goes outside the bible because you believe the traditions of your church equates or even surpasses the bible! Little wonder you people don't read the bible because some body has told you that you cannot depend on the bible. Well done.

just "ignorance" as someone said earlier.

Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis, Amen.

@pilgrim

there are rosary for
the sacred heart of Jesus,
Precious Blood
Divine Mercy
and lots more

if u take time to hear this prayers, u wont have to ask most of the questions u asked



@ all catholics


Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!!!!!

May will get all we ask in faith as we collectively pray during this month of " October Devotin". . . . . .

In Jesus Name , Amen!


im really proud of u all, may the good Lord continue to give us the wisdom to serve him in truth and faith

viee:

@pilgrim

there are rosary for
the sacred heart of Jesus,
Precious Blood
Divine Mercy
and lots more

if u take time to hear this prayers, u wont have to ask most of the questions u asked



@ all catholics


Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!!!!!

May will get all we ask in faith as we collectively pray during this month of " October Devotin". . . . . .

In Jesus Name , Amen!


im really proud of u all, may the good Lord continue to give us the wisdom to serve him in truth and faith

abi o. please pray a rosary for a special intention i have abeg my sister.

Keep the faith alive.

soldee:

Holy Mother of God - Mary has this title because she is the Mother of Christ, who has said he is one with God. By the way @ Pilgrim, do u also doubt the divinity of Jesus?

You would have said she was the earthly mother of Christ and nothing more. If Christ said he is on with God, why did you not say that sh is also the moth of Almighty God?

soldee:
Mother of Christ - Mary is the earthly Mother of Jesus Christ

I inserted that word earthly [/b]so that you can still be within control. Sh has since ceased being the 'mother' of Jesus because as Jesus said, in the Kingdom of heaven in which we pressupose that they both her now, there is no marriage, nor conjugal relationships and the likes. So in "heaven", she would ot carry the appellation of "Mother of God".

soldee:
[b]Mother most chaste - Jesus Christ, being of God, cannot endure or exist within the slightest lack of chastity. As such, God made our blessed Mother free from ALL impurity and sin to enable her carry the divinity in her womb

By this erring assumption, you have called God a liar! You have nullified the effect of His Words where he said that "All have sinned" So the work of Christ on the cross does not affect Mary abi? Another heretic doctrine!

soldee:
Virgin most prudent - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most wise, ever careful and ever cautious. So full of divine discretion

Mary told you herself abi? You talk as if it was Mary who chose God instead of the other way round (_{shakes head})

soldee:
Virgin most renowned - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most distinguished, she is celebrated by her Son, by all the angels and by all her children.

Oh! Angels have left God to start celebrating Mary (ABSOLUTE DEMONOLOGY!!!). Ar you sure you have not edited that script from "worshipped by her Son?"

soldee:
Virgin most powerful - Of all virgins, our blessed Virgin is most powerful because of her sole position as Daughter of the Father, Mother of the Son and Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Holy spirit don get wifey!

I beg i don tire jare.

@gozizi,

gozizi:

@ Pilgrim, and your appropriately named pal, @ Infidel I bid you peace.

I see another very lame and typically Catholic hypocrisy at play here. With seething parochialism, you're pretending a Roman Catholic "love" which would wish non-Catholics were doomed while at the same time bidding them 'peace'. That's why I asked you to go back and carefully study the verse you have quoted twice already; and if you've no clues what you're about here, save the rest and don't let others mistake you for what you didn't plan out to exhibit of yourself.

All the same, 'peace' to you.

I inserted that word earthly so that you can still be within control. Sh has since ceased being the 'mother' of Jesus because as Jesus said, in the Kingdom of heaven in which we pressupose that they both her now, there is no marriage, nor conjugal relationships and the likes. So in "heaven", she would ot carry the appellation of "Mother of God".

so when your "earthly" mother dies, she ceases to be your mother shey?

@Carlosein and viee,

Actually, I've been following the developments of this thread all day as I busied myself in the office. Initially, I was teasing myself that I was done for good with this thread; but there are just a few things that you guys keep posting that invite a rounded rejoinder from me. Make I yan, . . . or make I let una pass with the same misconceptions endlessly presented as 'truth' here?

I asked only one basic question here which I haven't read any Catholic answers addressing it. My question is "WHY"? Why has the Catholic Church taken divine titles belonging only to God and ascribed them to Mary? Una never answer that question yet, and you guys keep sweating rank-xerox the same tired and weathered excuses you can harvest from the net?

Lol. . . perhaps I should just continue to watch the frantic drama going on here; or try to address one or two in summary to keep you guys busily scratching yours heads.

No vex - I'm not being funny or derogatory. If anyone of you read me so, I apologise upfront. Can we discuss - or do I keep my fingers crossed yet again for you guys?

- - - -

And for those who keep making vain repetitions as a way out of the saga here, behave. I'm seriously warning una - and una know una selves. Behave. If you no dey hear word, don't blame me for wetin you go read next O! I don talk am: behave yourselves. You no get wetin to talk, jeje pass on.

Shalom.

Carlosein:

so when your "earthly" mother dies, she ceases to be your mother shey?

Do you "pray to" your 'earthly mother'?

@soldee,

soldee:

I had initially ignored your recurring question about the tiltles I posted for our blessed Lady because I was hoping u would go back and study them properly. I guess since u've done that and still have issues, the problem must need addressing. I'll repeat the list with explanations and I hope that though this is not the complete list of 6,000, u would be so kind as to apply the underlying theme to the list you have. Also, please note that my explanations are not exhaustive. I'll only open a thought process and pray that Holy Spirit enlightens you accordingly. You know, the Lord enlightens those he wills.

Many thanks for attempting to provide answers to the simple questions I presented. There was only one basic question I asked among others: "WHY has the Catholic Church taken the divine titles of God and ascribed them to Mary?" The basic question is "WHY?"; but you have only managed to skirt round that question and reproduced the same illogically otiose excuses you harvested from others.

Further, having failed to give me the reason as to "why" Catholics ascribe divine titles of God to Mary, the one thing that I'd have expected of you was to present your answers from the Bible - just so we understand that Catholics who make the same excuses are actually careful to hold their assumptions in light of God's WORD.

Now, let me sift through these excuses and offer a few pointers as to how and why they have no basis in God's WORD.

soldee:

Holy Mary - Mary is holy because God said so, because she is the only human being of the same flesh with Christ.

I've already demonstrated the fallacy in that assumption to show that the Catholic Church has tried to twist God's WORD into making God out to have said something He never did. I asked you and our dear Catholic friends to please quote the precise verse where God made that statement; but none of you have quoted that verse, for the simple reason that you can' find any such text in the Bible. It is not as if only Mary is 'holy', because that is what the Catholic Church wants people to believe. The only thing that keeps recurring here is the statement that Catholics have made up to make it sound like "God said so"; and yet you guys cannot show where He ever said so.

@soldee,

Besides, here are two things [(a) and (b)] for you to reflect on:

soldee:

Holy Mary - Mary is holy because God said so

(a) If Mary was 'holy' because "God said so", then every Christian is 'holy' because God said so as well. Even though you don't have a verse for your assumptions, we can still find clear texts for the fact that God has called every believer 'holy' in His sight -

#1 - He made us holy in His sight (1 Cor. 6:11)
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ
once for all." (Heb. 10:10)
- - - -

#2 - He called us holy before Him in love (1 Cor. 3:17)
"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider
the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb. 3:1)
- - - -

#3 - He enjoins us to be holy in our walk (2 Cor. 7:1)
"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves
from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thes. 4:7)

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"
(Heb. 12:14)

"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation"
(1 Pet. 1:15)
- - - -

# 4 - He preserves us in holiness all our days (Eph. 5:26)
"That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word"
- - - -

#5 - He enables us to bear fruit unto holiness (Rom. 6:22)
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

Did you get the gist? The Bible clearly says that the Temple of God is HOLY - and the glorious news is that WE ARE that Temple in whom God dwells by His Spirit!

Perhaps, you should realize that if Catholics see Mary's body as 'holy', so also God's WORD encourages us to see our bodies as 'holy' before Him: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. " (Rom. 12:1).

@soldee,

soldee:

Holy Mary - Mary is holy because God said so, because she is the only human being of the same flesh with Christ.

(b) Now, if again you assume that Mary is the only human being of the same flesh with Christ, then you're effectively saying that neither Mary nor Christ were actually "human". How so? For two simple reasons:

#1 - every person that ever lived - including Mary - are all of the same flesh
            (Acts 17:26 - God "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell
on all the face of the earth"

#2 - to say that Mary was "the only human being" of the same flesh with Christ is to
            effectively say that Christ was not human and might as well have had another kind of
'humanity' that was not ours!

The implication of the assumption you have made is clear: if Mary's humanity was not the same as ours, then Christ would not then have been able to share in our own humanity! And if that were the case, then Christ came to save "only Mary", since she was the "only person" of the same flesh with Christ! Consequently, Christ would not have been able to save any other person apart from Mary; because Scripture declares that He came in the same flesh of those whom He had come to save! This Roman Catholic ideology that Mary is 'the only person with the same flesh with Christ' is immediately and effectively debunked by Scripture itself, which bears witness of the fact that Christ came to share in OUR humanity; see --

Heb. 2:14
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death
He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

Heb. 2:16
"For verily He took not on him the nature of angels; but He took on Him
the seed of Abraham."

Heb. 2:17
"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren,
that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people."

Heb. 2:11
"For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren"

pilgrim.1:

@Carlosein and viee,

Actually, I've been following the developments of this thread all day as I busied myself in the office. Initially, I was teasing myself that I was done for good with this thread; but there are just a few things that you guys keep posting that invite a rounded rejoinder from me. Make I yan, . . . or make I let una pass with the same misconceptions endlessly presented as 'truth' here?

I asked only one basic question here which I haven't read any Catholic answers addressing it. My question is "WHY"? Why has the Catholic Church taken divine titles belonging only to God and ascribed them to Mary? Una never answer that question yet, and you guys keep sweating rank-xerox the same tired and weathered excuses you can harvest from the net?

Lol. . . perhaps I should just continue to watch the frantic drama going on here; or try to address one or two in summary to keep you guys busily scratching yours heads.

No vex - I'm not being funny or derogatory. If anyone of you read me so, I apologise upfront. Can we discuss - or do I keep my fingers crossed yet again for you guys?

- - - -

And for those who keep making vain repetitions as a way out of the saga here, behave. I'm seriously warning una - and una know una selves. Behave. If you no dey hear word, don't blame me for wetin you go read next O! I don talk am: behave yourselves. You no get wetin to talk, jeje pass on.

Shalom.

@pilgrim
looks to me you have been looking for an excuse to "download", why don't you just go ahead and do so.

Carlosein:

@pilgrim
looks to me you have been looking for an excuse to "download", why don't you just go ahead and do so.

I have NOT been looking for any excuses. The whole caterwauls you guys keep posting here is pitiable - you've severally done so; smart up and patiently read my rejoinders.

Cheers.

@soldee,

Not only so, but rather than saying that Mary was 'the only human being of the same flesh with Christ', on the contrary we find again and again in other verses that Christ came in to share in OUR own humanity! Now if Mary was "holy", how does God's WORD describe the body in which Christ came? Check this out:

#1 - Christ came in the liness of SINFUL flesh!
Rom. 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh"
Question - was Mary in "the likness of sinful flesh"?

#2 - Christ came in the likeness of MEN!
Php. 2:7 - "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form
of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"
Question: did Mary have a different kind of 'likeness' from all men (human beings)?

Infact, we should heed the inspired warning of the apostle John with regards to people trying to confuse the fact that Christ came "in flesh" -- "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2 John 1:7). Such people have the grand notion that Christ's Humanity was so esoteric that He could not have come 'in the flesh' - and that is precisely what the "Holy Mary" appellation suggests, that: "because she is the only human being of the same flesh with Christ".

From all that you might read from the foregoing, let me ask you soldee:

# (a) where does God say that Mary was the only human being of the same flesh with Christ?

# (b) was Mary's humanity different from every other person's humanity?

# (c) since the Bible states that Christ came in "the likeness of sinful flesh" (Rom. 8:3),
would you soldee be willing to acknowledge also that Mary was in the likeness of "sinful flesh"?

# (d) if Mary was in the likeness of "sinful flesh", how come Catholicism describes her as
'Mother Inviolate', or 'Mother Undefiled'? as if she never experienced 'sin' in any measure?

Please, my dear soldee, I gratefully acknowledge your efforts to provide answers to the basic question I asked earlier. As you can see, even though that question still remains unanswered, I've here taken only one of the Catholic titles for Mary and demonstrated how fallacious it is in the light of Scripture. Two things now: (a) as earlier, do I answer you point by point? and (b) would you rather take the time to either provide an answer to the original question I asked, or at least demonstrate that the reply I gave above is gravely mistaken according to God's WORD?

Many blessings.

Carlosein:

so when your "earthly" mother dies, she ceases to be your mother shey?

bros consider this scenario;
Two friends (and thier parents) die. The two friends go to heaven. However, one friend's parents end up in hell and the other's parents in heaven.
Can we then call the one whose parents end up in hell an orphan in heaven? (considering that he no longer has 'parents'?)

_{i don tire for this thread}

@ricadelide,

I no fit laff again! These guys no go just simply grow up!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis, Amen.

ricadelide:

bros consider this scenario;
Two friends (and their parents) die. The two friends go to heaven. However, one friend's parents end up in hell and the other's parents in heaven.
Can we then call the one whose parents end up in hell an orphan in heaven? (considering that he no longer has 'parents'?)

_{i don tire for this thread}

Rica,

See ehn. These guys don drink otumopo! Dem don brainwash dem sote dem bin forget dia name begin call demsef pope
The most knowledgeable of them will soon come and tell you another doctrine supporting consaguinity in heaven you will see.

Holy Mary, Our Hope, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for Us, Amen.

Enjoy.

Carlosein:

Holy Mary, Our Hope, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for Us, Amen.

Jesus My hope, you are the Wisdom of God, please pray for me. Amen.

tbay89:

IF You DONT BELIEVE HONOURING MARY IS RIGHT THEN GO AND HIT YOUR HEAD AGAINTS THE WALL, OR GO AND TELL THAT TO YOUR VILLAGE OBA.

BETTER STILL, TELL DEVIL, MAYBE HE WILL BAN CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR YOU

.

Welcome the true papist! Why do i need to tell the devil when your leadership is in partnrship with him. They are pals!

tbay89:

IF You DONT BELIEVE HONOURING MARY IS RIGHT THEN GO AND HIT YOUR HEAD AGAINTS THE WALL, OR GO AND TELL THAT TO YOUR VILLAGE OBA.

BETTER STILL, TELL DEVIL, MAYBE HE WILL BAN CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR YOU

.

Hello tbay89,

Nobody is asking that the Catholic 'Church' shoul be banned. Often times I read that (and the other one: 'we are here to stay') as limp and desperate defeatist mentality, and I hope you didn't enter this discussion already sounding really defeatist.

Does the Catholic Church really have anything to present from God's WORD for most of her pratices? That is the core concern here - and if Catholics feel they have, let's read them. We are not here as 'religious police' against the Catholic Church; but the claim that many Catholics make that the RCC is the only true Church originally founded by Jesus Christ needs to be examined. Jesus said, "f ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15) - and we are open to learn which one of the explicit commandments of Christ the RCC seeks to keep.

Which one? Make your pick from the following and honestly answer to yourself whether or not the RCC is keeping God's commandments:

             * the RCC doctrine of Mariolatry

             * the RCC doctrine of making molten images for worship - bowing down to them, etc

             * the RCC doctrine of "praying to" Mary

             * the RCC doctrine of taking God's divine titles and ascribing them to Mary

. . . "and many other things there be, which they have received to hold" (Mark 7:4 & 8 ).

Could you simply share with us WHY these things have entered the Catholic Church in direct contravention of God's WORD?

Cheers.

Carlosein:

Holy Mary, Our Hope, Seat of Wisdom, Pray for Us, Amen.

Who is the HOPE of the Christian - MARY or JESUS?

Look into God's WORD and see for yourself:

        * "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour,
         and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope"  (1 Tim. 1:1)

        * "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery
         among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"  (Col. 1:27)

Even the apostle Peter [whom the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) erroneously calls the 'first Pope'] said himself:

       * "Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory;
         that your faith and hope might be in God. " (1 Pet. 1:21)

Catholic friends, make una examine una hearts carefully. Who is your HOPE - is it Mary or Jesus Christ?

WHY has the Catholic Church taken the divine titles of God and Christ and ascribed them to Mary?

pilgrim.1:


WHY has the Catholic Church taken the divine titles of God and Christ and ascribed them to Mary?

Because in order to legitimise their demonic doctrines of the Mary in kweshun who is not the mother of my Lord Jesus Christ but some invention of the papacy), tried to put a stamp of legitimacy of the babylonian doctrines :

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

Saint of the Day

Sts. Cosmas and Damian (d. 303?)


Nothing is known of their lives except that they suffered martyrdom in Syria during the persecution of Diocletian.

A church erected on the site of their burial place was enlarged by the emperor Justinian. Devotion to the two saints spread rapidly in both East and West. A famous basilica was erected in their honor in Constantinople. Their names were placed in the canon of the Mass, probably in the sixth century.

Legend says that they were twin brothers born in Arabia, who became skilled doctors. They were among those who are venerated in the East as the "moneyless ones" because they did not charge a fee for their services. It was impossible that such prominent persons would escape unnoticed in time of persecution: They were arrested and beheaded.

Quote

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been purchased at a price. Therefore glorify God in your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

Heretic of the Day

Pope Honorius I (died October 12, 638)

Honorius, according to the Liber Pontificalis, came from Campania and was the son of the consul Petronius. He became pope on October 27, 625, two days after the death of his predecessor, Boniface V.

Honorius favoured Monothelitism; a formula proposed by the Byzantine emperor Heraclius, with the design of bringing about a reconciliation between the Monophysites and the Catholics. Monothelitism bore that Christ had accomplished His work of redemption by one manifestation of his will as the God-man. To this end, Honorius "sent his deacon Gaios" to a synod in Cyprus, hosted by archbishop Arkadios II and with additional representatives from Patriarch Sergius I of Constantinople.

More than forty years after his death, Honorius was anathematized by name along with the Monothelites by the Third Council of Constantinople (First Trullan) in 680. The anathema read, after mentioning the chief Monothelites, "and with them Honorius, who was Prelate of Rome, as having followed them in all things".

Furthermore, the Acts of the Thirteenth Session of the Council state, "And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to [Patriarch] Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines." The Sixteenth Session adds: "To Theodore of Pharan, the heretic, anathema! To Sergius, the heretic, anathema! To Cyrus, the heretic, anathema! To Honorius, the heretic, anathema! To Pyrrhus, the heretic, anathema!"

This condemnation was subsequently confirmed by Leo II (a fact disputed by such persons as Cesare Baronio and Bellarmine,[1] but which has since become commonly accepted) in the form, "and also Honorius, who did not attempt to sanctify this Apostolic Church with the teaching of Apostolic tradition, but by profane treachery permitted its purity to be polluted" (quotations from the Catholic Encyclopedia).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Honorius_I


Quote: "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." (Revelation 6:13)

Rekindle In Me  

O Breath of the Father, rekindle in me the spark of love that you placed in me when I was baptized and confirmed. Replenish in me your holy gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and fear of the Lord so that I might better serve all in holiness all my days.  Amen


from Saint Paul: Called to Conversion

Oby1:

Rekindle In Me

O Breath of the Father, rekindle in me the spark of love that you placed in me when I was baptized and confirmed. Replenish in me your holy gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and fear of the Lord so that I might better serve all in holiness all my days. Amen


from Saint Paul: Called to Conversion

We do hope that Catholics will not someday mistake "Breath of the Father" to be another divine title for Mary!

@ Pilgrim,
the Breath of the Father is the Holy Spirit, the same Holy Spirit that came upon our blessed Mother, with whom she 'conceived' of our Lord Jesus. She is the Spouse of teh Holy Spirit.

@ cgift,
Note the above, that 'conception' is a result of 'co-operation' between two entities. In conceiving Jesus, it was 'co-operation' between the Holy Spirit and our blessed Mary. Our Mother said 'YES' and she was conceived of the Holy Spirit. What Divine Relationship!

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary