Amor4ce,

Oh trust me, I know! I wasn't cutting back in my response to you, I piggybacked on your comment. You said the right thing!

[img]http://1.bp..com/_9yNjJXtCrA8/S5nPLQZ0miI/AAAAAAAAAQk/e45Ujc09w5U/s1600/A+Large+Perspective+Picture+of+a+Second-floor+Parlor+in+the+New+Yoshiwara,+Looking+Toward+the+Embankment%E2%80%9D+by+Okumura+Masanobu,+circa+1745.jpg[/img]
http://guity-novin..com/2010/03/history-of-graphic-design-african-art.html

Yoruba civilization started in Ife and trickled outwards towards the North of the continent; those who keep referring to Afro-Asia are misinformed because during the infancy stages of the Ife empire, Asia was without habitats. There was simply no communities in these areas during these times; the period depicts the era whereby even ancient Egypt hadn't been created.

Negro_Ntns:
Yoruba was a civilization that predated Ife. Many of you are thinking Yoruba started in Ife. No, Yoruba settled in Ife! It's civilization became an old world order that had to yield for a new one to begin, the clash resulted in the exodus out of AfroAsia. Ifa could not have lasted as long it has in the course of human timeline in which it could easily have been wiped out with everything else that were successfully erased from our consciousness unless there was some divine intervention to preserve it for humanity. It is not an act of Yoruba prowess or know-how that Ifa has remained a world knowledge. Similarly, all these antiques of our past glory will find their own voice to re-establish the severed connection. It will take a white man telling it before you all come into agreement and nod your heads to these truths.

Please, you are completely off the mark; Yoruba civilization is Ife civilization and vice-versa; NO influence occurred outside of the Yoruba kingdom. Mainly because there was no other communities to influence or be influenced by outside of the Western Africa area. Every shred of evidence states this to be the case.

Furthermore, archeologist and anthropologist all agree Ife and its indigenous communities predates anything outside of the African continent.

Therefore, your story of exodus is unrealistic and simply could NOT have happened.

Expand your reasonig my friend. Ile-Ife could have been the recreation in Nigeria of a pre-existed one in the East.

Birmingham, Alabama is a recreation for the one in England. Cambridge, Massachussetts is a recreation, Kentucky is a recreation.

In fact, Lagos in Nigeria is a recreation for the one in Portugal.

the akassa in southsouth was also named for an akassa somewhere in morocco which was an old portuguese fort.

Effurun - Ephron?
Orisha - Orissa (in India)?

Amujale, isn't snow mentioned in the Ifa literary corpus? If so, how come?

Negro_Ntns:

Expand your reasonig my friend.  Ile-Ife could have been the recreation in Nigeria of a pre-existed one in the East. 

Birmingham, Alabama is a recreation for the one in England.  Cambridge, Massachussetts is a recreation, Kentucky is a recreation. 

In fact, Lagos in Nigeria is a recreation for the one in Portugal.

tpia@:

the akassa in southsouth was also named for an akassa somewhere in morocco which was an old portuguese fort.

amor4ce:

Effurun - Ephron?
Orisha -  Orissa (in India)?

Amujale, isn't snow mentioned in the Ifa literary corpus? If so, how come?

All the above observations are obviously founded however, the accurate connection is often misconstrued to a great extent.

Its simple, which community do you think existed first:

The Asian contraption of Ile-Ife or the Nigerian Canon?

Birmingham Alabama or the English Canon?

Akassa Morrocco or the comunity in the Nigerian Canon

India or Ile-Ife in Nigeria?

The answers to all the above is pretty obvious to both disciplines of anthropology and archaeology.

Furthermore, the Corpus does indeed make mention of ice and snow, however it is my understanding that the majority of the reference was to the ice caps and or ice bergs. Even the specific reference to snow is in line with the acknowledgement of the diversity in Earth's climate and rather than contradict, goes a long way to validate the common knowledge that suggest human existence originates in the African continent.

Not getting your point but the akassa in nigeria (founded around the 17th century perhaps) was preceded by the akassa in morocco.

Lagos portugal preceded lagos nigeria.

tpia@:

Not getting your point but the akassa in nigeria (founded around the 17th century perhaps) was preceded by the akassa in morocco.

Lagos portugal preceded lagos nigeria.

what i mean is a simple truth; the communities of Ile-Ife like many of its relative Nigerian counterparts were in existence hundred of thousands of years before anything out of either Europe or Asia.

This is to say that people of Eko had been thriving as a community thousands of years before the country of Portugal ever existed.

Humanity began in Africa and continued to populate the rest of the world.

Anonymous,

That's a beautiful piece. I wonder how many of these arts are held in museums and private collections by people who have no clue of their values or the meaning in them. Europeans should stop whining about 419 scammers that empty their banks. . . . . they looted our arts ad cultural artifacts and are still adamant on holding onto it.

We are not denying that humans emerged from Africa. What we are however contesting is that the Yoruba migrated from the region of the Levant or thereabout to this part of West Africa. If you still refuse to acknowledge that, what then would you say about the migration of the Lemba and the Ijebu peoples?

Has it not been mentioned in the recent past that the present Ile-Ife isn't the original one? perhaps the eight

Can you provide us with a list of Ile-Ife kings and/or notable residents since 4,000BC?

The first city in the world is said to be Eridu in the land of the Sumerians; where was Ile-Ife then?

Can you explain the reason for the name of the town called Oke Eri? What is the major achievement associated with Sungbo (Eredo)?

Negro_Ntns:

Anonymous,

That's a beautiful piece. I wonder how many of these arts are held in museums and private collections by people who have no clue of their values or the meaning in them. Europeans should stop whining about 419 scammers that empty their banks. . . . . they looted our arts ad cultural artifacts and are still adamant on holding onto it.

What if the artworks were deliberately mislabeled?

anonymous6:


http://www.roccointeriors.com.au/phpdocs/product_detail.php?id=77&product_category=decorative&product_subcategory=african

The thingy in front looks like a lighthouse.

Negro_Ntns:

Anonymous,

That's a beautiful piece. I wonder how many of these arts are held in museums and private collections by people who have no clue of their values or the meaning in them. Europeans should stop whining about 419 scammers that empty their banks. . . . . they looted our arts ad cultural artifacts and are still adamant on holding onto it.

I agree, I just don't get it why they won't return those art sculptures back to Nigeria; it doesn't belong to the british

tpia@:

The thingy in front looks like a lighthouse.

LOL

I think we need to take a leaf from Brazil's book; taking the thieves to court.

We are to summon all the museums that hold all our artefacts to the world court.

However, there's strong evidence to suggest that many of us are NOT bothered about where these iconic works end-up.

Brazil and Chile spent a great deal of time, intellect and money in a bid to aquire their long lost and confiscated artefacts.

Eventhough, the majority of re-possession was awarded by the world court, those that had been detached from state institutions were offered amounts that simply couldnt be refused.

Amujale:

I think we need to take a leaf from Brazil's book; taking the thieves to court.

We are to summon all the museums that hold all our artefacts to the world court.

However, there's strong evidence to suggest that many of us are NOT bothered about where these iconic works end-up.

Brazil and Chile spent a great deal of time, intellect and money in a bid to aquire their long lost and confiscated artefacts.

Eventhough, the majority of re-possession was awarded by the world court, those that had been detached from state institutions were offered amounts that simply couldnt be refused.

 

I never knew Brazil had some Ife bronze sculpture's, I thought it was just England. Nigeria has some of the bronze sculptures though but it is owned by ife only but I do agree with you some Nigerians are not bothered by some Ife sculptures being owned in other parts of the world.

Why is Chile even keeping these sculptures?, they have no connection to Yoruba's

@Anoymous6, Brazil and Chile launched a legal campaign to recover their own local artifacts and NOT those coming out of Nigeria.

Amujale:

@Anoymous6, Brazil and Chile launched a legal campaign to recover their own local artifacts and NOT those coming out of Nigeria. 

oh ok, thanks for the info I wasn't aware about that

The thingy in front looks like a lighthouse.

It is, but of a different kind!

The invention of the lighthouse might have taken root from Ife art, who kows?

There was a book photograph posted by TC of a partly ruined structure with the subject sitting on a high chair and the foot rested on a stool.

I want you all to take a good look at that elaborate installation, does it not look like a toilet seat? There is a pipe routed in-between the subject's legs going up in a curled line and the other end of it is coupled to the seat pillar forming what look like a drainage system. Is that right or did I see too much into it?

amor4ce:

We are not denying that humans emerged from Africa. What we are however contesting is that the Yoruba migrated from the region of the Levant or thereabout to this part of West Africa. If you still refuse to acknowledge that, what then would you say about the migration of the Lemba and the Ijebu peoples?

Has it not been mentioned in the recent past that the present Ile-Ife isn't the original one? perhaps the eight

Can you provide us with a list of Ile-Ife kings and/or notable residents since 4,000BC?

The first city in the world is said to be Eridu in the land of the Sumerians; where was Ile-Ife then?

Can you explain the reason for the name of the town called Oke Eri? What is the major achievement associated with Sungbo (Eredo)?

I'm not going to go into the semantics of either Lemba or Mobalufon's connection with the Ijebu's but will say this; there's more to Semitics than meets the Unclad eye (would like for you to make an Africanism research into this area); the notion that Obanta migrated from Wadai is as accurate as the supposed migration of Odua from Mecca, both are just simply impossible; out-rightly inaccurate and completely unfit for purpose.

Obanita couldn't have migrated from Egypt because the ancient Egyptian community didn't even exist during the time depicted. Prior to the first Egyptian Dynastic period, most of the communities in the Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid communities were already established civilizations and or authorities.

In a sense, we are talking of periods that depict the times before records began; and the chronology of the Ooni's is known to a particular percentage of accuracy because history makes mention of those that are of greater significance. More importantly, the dates that are matched against the kings of Ife are completely and utterly inaccurate.

When Oranmiyan was King of Ile-Ife, ancient Egypt wasn't even a dream in the mind of mankind never-mind an after thought. The argument is which part of the South of the Sahara first came into existence, Ethiopia?, Nigeria?, Chad?, Ghana?, Niger? e.t.c take your pick


Eridu is the earliest city in mesopotamia, and mesopotamia was born out of the Ubaid period (6500 to 3800 BCE); lets put this into its proper perspective, the Pre-dynastic periods of ancient Egypt begins in periods 9500 BCE and we already aware that the communities of Southern Nigeria and elsewhere not only predates this but were among those that provided influence towards the making and building of the nation.

Therefore, the entire lists of cities in the regions of the Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid communities predate Eridu in years that would amount to hundreds of thousands of years. The fact that much of the literary proof has been destroyed, stolen and or confiscated doesn't mean we still cannot prove this beyond reasonable doubt.

We have so much material, evidence and or proof that points towards these simple truths. Many myths have been disproved, debunked and proved wrong with regards to African history and most had to do with the commentary of Eurocentric and Asiatic writers.

We have a chronology of flow in human personnel moving from Africa towards Asia, Europe and Americas during periods that depict an era whereby the only ethnicity on the entire planet were that of black Africans. We are able to prove that Arabs came out of Africa; the period they were supposed to have migrated; their ethnicity at the time and their state of mind and much more. . .

We are also aware of the science of genetics that supports the idea that the black genes is more or less point zero; a yard stick to every other human genetic make-up. Are aware of the periods whereby Africans inhabitted the area we know to be Europe and much more. . .

[flash=500,500]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbd4REmzzNU[/flash]

Amujale:


I'm not going to go into the semantics of either Lemba or Mobalufon's connection with the Ijebu's but will say this; there's more to Semitics than meets the Unclad eye (would like for you to make an Afrocentric research into this area); the notion that Obanta migrated from Wadai is as accurate as the supposed migration of Odua from Mecca, both are just simply impossible; out-rightly inaccurate and completely unfit for purpose.

Obanita couldn't have migrated from Egypt because the ancient Egyptian community didn't even exist during the time depicted. Prior to the first Egyptian Dynastic period, most of the communities in the Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid communities were already established civilizations and or authorities.

In a sense, we are talking of periods that depict the times before records began; and the chronology of the Ooni's is known to a particular percentage of accuracy because history makes mention of those that are of greater significance. More importantly, the dates that are matched against the kings of Ife are completely and utterly inaccurate.

When Oranmiyan was King of Ile-Ife, ancient Egypt wasn't even a dream in the mind of mankind never-mind an after thought. The argument is which part of the South of the Sahara first came into existence, Ethiopia?, Nigeria?, Chad?, Ghana?, Niger? e.t.c take your pick


Eridu is the earliest city in mesopotamia, and mesopotamia was born out of the Ubaid period (6500 to 3800 BCE); lets put this into its proper perspective, the Pre-dynastic periods of ancient Egypt begins in periods 9500 BCE and we already aware that the communities of Southern Nigeria and elsewhere not only predates this but were among those that provided influence towards the making and building of the nation.

Therefore, the entire lists of cities in the regions of the Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid communities predate Eridu in years that would amount to hundreds of thousands of years. The fact that much of the literary proof has been destroyed, stolen and or confiscated doesn't mean we still cannot prove this beyond reasonable doubt.

We have so much material, evidence and or proof that points towards these simple truths. Many myths have been disproved, debunked and proved wrong with regards to African history and most had to do with the commentary of Eurocentric and Asiatic writers.

We have a chronology of flow in human personnel moving from Africa towards Asia, Europe and Americas during periods that depict an era whereby the only ethnicity on the entire planet were that of black Africans. We are able to prove that Arabs came out of Africa; the period they were supposed to have migrated; their ethnicity at the time and their state of mind and much more. . .

We are also aware of the science of genetics that supports the idea that the black genes is more or less point zero; a yard stick to every other human genetic make-up. Are aware of the periods whereby Africans inhabitted the area we know to be Europe and much more. . .

Would you care to let us know how you arrived at the impossibility of the migration?
Can you provide us with a list of Ile-Ife kings and/or notable residents since 4,000BC?
Are you saying that Ife has had only 50 Oonis (Kings) since 9500 BCE?
Are you saying that what the people of Eredo believe about Sungbo is impossible, that the queen did not return to that site with all her people (Yoruba?)?
Yoruba oral history includes the account of an extraordinary flood - What would have happened to human settlements and their locations before, during and after the flood?

i'm trying to see if the crown insignia were modelled after any known lighthouse [eg the one at pharos which lasted until the 14th century], or minarets but so far cant really find anything.

and wondering why the medallions are situated at the base, instead of the top.

the insignia could also represent a flame perhaps.

Depends on which was invented first, the crown isignia or the lighthouse, will determine which was a copy of the other. You can find that out for us ad share.

In visual arts you can call that a medallion but in custom rituals that's a sun disk. As an integral part of the lighthouse . . . . .hold on, now I'm talking like you! Let me re-phrase.

The upright object is symbolic of life. Life as an infinite and life as a finite. You were right in saying it looks like a lighthouse, it is actually a torch or a candle with a flame sitting at the crest of it. Then the shaft of the torch/candle has a rope or chain wound round it. Let me breakdown the parts and talk about each: flame, chain, disk.

Flame - at the creation of life an energy is produced. That energy is the fire element. The fire of creation is infinite, it never ends but the life produced by it is itself finite. It is an attribute of GOD as the all powerful infinite source of a powerless and dependent life. In that flame, it also symbolizes that we are one with GOD.

Chain - there are two chains - invincible chains - connected with the human form. This is the one at the crown chakra. It is a communication tunnell between the individual and the human consciousness. No one of us can touch GOD or talk to him directly. But in order to have contact with GOD we must go through the human consciousness, we must pass through this tunnel. What is in the tunnel? Several gates of consciousness. Each level of cosciousness is a test of character and enlightenement. Each successive gate is harder to pass through than the one before it. The person that gets through the sixth gate has already mastered the ego and he is one with humanity. He has mastered pain ad sorrow and nothing in this life bothers or pertubs him/her. He/she has knowledge where none else can reach. This interpretation is in many verses of Ifa.

Disk - the solar system. The bio-rhythym is controlled by the solar system. Living in harmony with the natural rhythym of nature prolongs health and life aand completes the manifestation of man as a dominant being over nature. There is actually many cults built on this oe knowledge alone. Also farming, fishing, hunting, cultural festivals, and may other social activities of makind is built on the balace of the solar system. Calculation of time as well as seasons and the cycle of reproduction, both i humans ad aimals is all dependent o the solar system.

in visual arts you can call that a medallion but in custom rituals that's a sun disk

true.

could be a sun disk or the concentric circles/ripples made by a drop of water.

eg

this is definitely a sun disk:

[img]http://img.thenigerianvoice.com/thumb.aspx?img=XGltYWdlc1xjb250ZW50XGZqYTRkcG8wMHdfb2xva3VuLnBuZ3wyMjB8MTEvOC8yMDEx[/img]



and compare with this design of a dish from 14th or 15th century moor-influenced spain:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustreware

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Moresque_ware

Obanita couldn't have migrated from Egypt because the ancient Egyptian community didn't even exist during the time depicted. Prior to the first Egyptian Dynastic period, most of the communities in the Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid communities were already established civilizations and or authorities.

In a sense, we are talking of periods that depict the times before records began

it wasnt that far back.

the fatimid dynasty in egypt might be worth looking into but the info on wiki is a bit hard to follow.

the circles or layers of each disk are approximately 7 or 8 in number.

not sure what that means but it seems 8 was an important number used in calculating ancient measurements.