Pifa: I've read through your comments in this thread. One question for you. Isn't an imperfect and badly designed, even "mediocre" hospital (to use your terminology) better than nothing at all?

Your criticisms seem very legit. But even mediocrity relative to the standards you are used to life represents a vast improvement in the life of your typical Lagosian.

Now, if you are saying that this facility is equivalent to having absolutely nothing at all, to giving birth in the village, then that is a different matter.

If you are arguing that this was a wasteful use of resources entirely, that too is a different matter.

Anyway, your posts were very interesting, at least to me.

ekt_bear:

Pifa: I've read through your comments in this thread. One question for you. Isn't an imperfect and badly designed, even "mediocre" hospital (to use your terminology) better than nothing at all?

Your criticisms seem very legit. But even mediocrity relative to the standards you are used to life represents a vast improvement in the life of your typical Lagosian.

Now, if you are saying that this facility is equivalent to having absolutely nothing at all, to giving birth in the village, then that is a different matter.

If you are arguing that this was a wasteful use of resources entirely, that too is a different matter.

Anyway, your posts were very interesting, at least to me.

Let them take a trip to Cuba and see what they call hospitals, with ancient equipments, yet Cubans enjoy some of the best health care in the world. It is not just about buildings.

WoW. . . . someone makes a propaganda movie . . . makes a claim in the movie, that claim is EXPANDED on by those who hear it, and then suddenly they suggest it is a FACT? 

Great

People die because they can't get healthcare, not because the can't get it in a fancy building. Period.

God Forbid any of these complainers have a ghastly accident and they are rushed to the so called Fashola Hospital - I hope they say " Please transfer me to the fancy building hospital in the UK or us "

^^^ uUm . . . . Many people already do just that . . .  consult reports that show that billions of bucks go abroad each year as a result of people shipping abroad for healthcare(not all MAJOR PROCEDURES), and a good portion of that is paid by the government.

So, you may want to try another angle to this --- here's an advice. Maybe instead of looking for ways to throw people under the bus, you actually make an attempt at understanding some of the arguments being made.

IMO, I honestly it's a sound move by the government, although like some others argued, I think these some of the hospitals lack innovation concepts when compared to ultra-modern hospitals today. IMO, if Lagos is to compete in the healthcare business, I think building hospitals isn't the issue, rather, addressing the issue of how healthcare system.

For someone who mentioned in the U.S., two hospitals that cost about $200 and $580million respectively, I thought in your previous argument, you stated the Nigeria was POOR, etc so why are you comparing the cost of these hospitals to that of LASG state budget?

You did not mention the disparities between these two entities; these hospitals are engaged in several Federal, State, and Corporate insurance programs, so definitely, $200million is nothing compared to LASG that is pretty much building it for FREE or least affordable. The cost of healthcare in the states vary across city to city and states to states, I pay about $42 every pay period for my PPOS plan, that's about $1,092 annually towards my health insurance ONLY, dental, vision, as well as other supplemental isn't included, so please STOP the comparison.

If LASG took $100million to build an ultra-modern complex for hospital, and asked that every patient of the hospital pay an average of $1,000 each, trust and believe, such hospital is more likely to have at least 50,000 to 200,000 patients visits annually. Multiply that number by a $1,000 each, that would give you how much a hospital earns. Like I said, building hospitals ISN'T the issue at least for me, but a clearly defined healthcare system is.

LOL,

See nice to see two women(Bootyme and Kobojunkie) debating on Political section.

The opinions expressed about this topic has just shown us why we are lagging behind other countries and may continue to do so. I am no apologist 4 fashola but i give kudos where kudos is due. We, especially those of us in the diaspora (hate that word )should be encouraging him and urging him to continue to do more, but instead some people are here knocking his efforts, unbelievable!!! There was somebody actually trying to compare governor Orji of Abia state to what Fash is doing, i mean c'mon that person needs to be placed in a padded cell!!!
Governor Fashola is working hard to transform Lagos with the limited resources and the complexity of the huge population he has to deal with. For me i say Governor Fash well done, you still have a long way to go but i urge you to continue trying to give the good people of Lagos your best. God Bless

Aigbofa:

Let them take a trip to Cuba and see what they call hospitals, with ancient equipments, yet Cubans enjoy some of the best health care in the world. It is not just about buildings.

Yeah, I don't actually think that the American healthcare system is something to copy off of, to be honest.

Don't Cubans spend far less per capita on health care, yet have higher life expectancy and perform better on various other metrics?

Doesn't seem as if the US is spending its money very efficiently on this area.

We need more effective, and efficient solutions, not one-time pad kind of solutions, if we are serious about tackling ANY problem

Kobojunkie:

We need more effective, and efficient solutions, not one-time pad kind of solutions, if we are serious about tackling ANY problem

Were you interested in effective solutions when you inaccurately compared Lagos state with a population of 18 million and a budget of 2 billion dollars with Chicago, a fully developed city with just 2 million people and 7 billion dollars budget ?



Were you interested in effective solutions when you labeled this clinic substandard and still refused to define standard and substandard?


Were you interested in effective solutions when you ridiculed the same thing without providing any ideas, talk less solutions?


Were you interested in effective solutions when you mocked people for offering the same solutions that you were not interested in and all you wanted to do was troll around with your clownish emoticon and laughs like a silly circus clown?


Now because people ignored you childish and trollish acts, now all of a sudden you are interested in solutions.


That's why people don't you seriously, sometimes it's like you are bipolar and troubled, you really are better off with your clownish acts and your goofy laugh emoticon, at lease you'll be doing what you do best and what we know you for.

We need more effective, and efficient solutions, not one-time pad kind of solutions, if we are serious about tackling ANY problem

Kobojunkie:

We need more effective, and efficient solutions, not one-time pad kind of solutions, if we are serious about tackling ANY problem

Were you interested in effective solutions when you inaccurately compared Lagos state with a population of 18 million and a budget of 2 billion dollars with Chicago, a fully developed city with just 2 million people and 7 billion dollars budget ?



Were you interested in effective solutions when you labeled this clinic substandard and still refused to define standard and substandard?


Were you interested in effective solutions when you ridiculed the same thing without providing any ideas, talk less solutions?


Were you interested in effective solutions when you mocked people for offering the same solutions that you were not interested in and all you wanted to do was troll around with your clownish emoticon and laughs like a silly circus clown?


Now because people ignored you childish and trollish acts, all of a sudden you are interested in solutions.


That's why people don't take you seriously, sometimes it's like you are bipolar and troubled, you really are better off with your clownish acts and your goofy laugh emoticon, at lease you'll be doing what you do best and what we know you for.

Good Job Fashola!

For those with complaints, i think they simply lack awareness of what obtains on ground. The reality doesnt favour your grandiose proposition.

In a very recent reports, only 36% pregnant women have ACCESS to formal healthcare for delivery. It is of this reason that the Federal Govt has been trying to incorporate Traditional birth attendants to work in conjuction with the Primary health care hospitals. With 92.4% of Nigerians living on less than 2 USD daily, and 52,000 nigerian women die every year from pregnancy and childbirth issues. The worst in Afica, and second to india as the worst in the world.

The operational word is Access to healthcare. I think the picture i have seen denotes one thing, which is STANDARD. It might be a gold, silver or bronze standard. i know the facility is standard.

Let me correct some misrepresentations here;

Firstly,The assertion that Lagos has a population of 18million is ABSOLUTELY false.

Second,The Lagos state government do not declare the actual amount of money accrued to the state on a monthly basis,should they do so,Lagos would be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with states like IIlinois,Georgia,Boston et al and can afford to build world class hospitals such as the Emory University Teaching Hospital,Johns Hopkins,Princeton,Stanford and the likes whose costs someone put at 22Billion naira.

The major problem with Nigerian politicians is fiscal indiscipline;they claim to spend 100 naira on projects that actually cost less than 5naira. Find out how much they claim to spend on their "half bread is better than none" hospitals and see if it's not very close to the cost of the afforementioned world class hospitals.

Lagos state has the wherewithal to financially compete with every state of the US if only Uncle Fash and Tinubu will be honest to declare how much the state really makes

Olalekan 0:

Let me correct some misrepresentations here;

Firstly,The assertion that Lagos has a population of 18million is ABSOLUTELY false.

Second,The Lagos state government do not declare the actual amount of money accrued to the state on a monthly basis,should they do so,Lagos would be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with states like IIlinois,Georgia,Boston et al and can afford to build world class hospitals such as the Emory University Teaching Hospital,Johns Hopkins,Princeton,Stanford and the likes whose costs someone put at 22Billion naira.

The major problem with Nigerian politicians is fiscal indiscipline;they claim to spend 100 naira on projects that actually cost less than 5naira. Find out how much they claim to spend on their "half bread is better than none" hospitals and see if it's not very close to the cost of the afforementioned world class hospitals.

Lagos state has the wherewithal to financially compete with every state of the US if only Uncle Fash and Tinubu will be honest to declare how much the state really makes

are you saying it is less?

The population of the state of Lagos is far less than 18million and y'all gotta desist from drawing comparisons between Lagos and Rivers States health care system cos that's a no go area.

Rivers state has an excellent health-care system that overwhelmingly supercedes what obtains in Lagos.

In P.H and it's environs;Choba,Buguma,Etche,Abonima,Ahoda and co,diagnosis,drugs and treatments are ABSOLUTELY FREE right from the rein of Odili unlike Lagos hospitals where you pay for even the air you breath

I know Team Fashola would claim that Rivers receive mamoth amount of money but sometimes they forget that Rivers States source of revenue comes solely from Fed.Govt allocations,they do not heavily tax their citizens like fashola does in Lagos,hence they make virtually nothing in IGR

In the light of this,when you sum up Lagos state's allocation from the F.G and the amount of money they make from Personal income tax,companies income tax,capital gains tax,education tax,Capital transfer tax,signboard and advertisement tax,tenement rates,Value added tax,lotteries,gaming and casino taxes as well as business premises taxes,you find out that they make more money monthly than any other state of the federation,u

Olalekan 0:

The population of the state of Lagos is far less than 18million and y'all gotta desist from drawing comparisons between Lagos and Rivers States health care system cos that's a no go area.

Rivers state has an excellent health-care system that overwhelmingly supercedes what obtains in Lagos.

In P.H and it's environs;Choba,Buguma,Etche,Abonima,Ahoda and co,diagnosis,drugs and treatments are ABSOLUTELY FREE right from the rein of Odili unlike Lagos hospitals where you pay for even the air you breath

I know Team Fashola would claim that Rivers receive mamoth amount of money but sometimes they forget that Rivers States source of revenue comes solely from Fed.Govt allocations,they do not heavily tax their citizens like fashola does in Lagos,hence they make virtually nothing in IGR

In the light of this,when you sum up Lagos state's allocation from the F.G and the amount of money they make from Personal income tax,companies income tax,capital gains tax,education tax,Capital transfer tax,signboard and advertisement tax,tenement rates,Value added tax,lotteries,gaming and casino taxes as well as business premises taxes,you find out that they make more money monthly than any other state of the federation,u

Please bless us with the proper and accurate census of Lagos sate

What's the exact amount Lagos state generates?

In what way is Rivers health care system better than Lagos state? How did you arrived at this and what data did you used?

Please show us the maternal health centers and hospitals in Rivers?

We know everything boils down to your annual budget and Rivers with just a population of 5 million people posts higher budgets than Lagos state so let's not muddle up facts.

Even with all their money and lower population, Rivers is still behind Lagos.

I know you are going to dance around and refuse to answer the question  simply because you are spewing the same rubbish that you know you know are lies that you can not back up with any credible fact, but try prove me wrong by answering.

Olalekan 0:

The population of the state of Lagos is far less than 18million and y'all gotta desist from drawing comparisons between Lagos and Rivers States health care system cos that's a no go area.

Rivers state has an excellent health-care system that overwhelmingly supercedes what obtains in Lagos.

I suspect you may be right given Amaechi also put up structures like this in Rivers. I do believe the successful completion and implementation of the Karibi Whyte project will propel Rivers even further ahead, however I do wonder how one goes about measuring the health-care system in any state as is.

Olalekan 0:

Let me correct some misrepresentations here;

Firstly,The assertion that Lagos has a population of 18million is ABSOLUTELY false.

Hmm, well that's what the correct census says, however, I've always had my doubt although I strongly believe Lagos has a lot of residents.

Olalekan 0:

Let me correct some misrepresentations here;

Firstly,The assertion that Lagos has a population of 18million is ABSOLUTELY false.

Second,The Lagos state government do not declare the actual amount of money accrued to the state on a monthly basis,should they do so,Lagos would be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with states like IIlinois,Georgia,Boston et al and can afford to build world class hospitals such as the Emory University Teaching Hospital,Johns Hopkins,Princeton,Stanford and the likes whose costs someone put at 22Billion naira.

They do not declare the actual amount of money accrued to the state monthly? Huh? If they don't declare their revenues, how then do they report their financial stats to the office of statistics? If they do not report it, won't that be "fraudulent accounting" or better yet, in violation of the Government Accounting Standards Board Reporting? When they go to the financial market to seek funds, if they under-report their earnings (Revenue), and overstate expense, isn't that a crime under the law? At least for instance under U.S. laws, that's a violation of the Securities and Exchange Commission policies. Therefore are you suggesting that Lagos is involved in this activities? Please, clear this up because this is WRONG notion you quoted up there. For the record, they cannot stand shoulder to shoulder with NONE of the states you have listed.

Olalekan 0:


The major problem with Nigerian politicians is fiscal indiscipline;they claim to spend 100 naira on projects that actually cost less than 5naira. Find out how much they claim to spend on their "half bread is better than none" hospitals and see if it's not very close to the cost of the afforementioned world class hospitals.

Lagos state has the wherewithal to financially compete with every state of the US if only Uncle Fash and Tinubu will be honest to declare how much the state really makes

Dude, as for this part, I laugh in Swahili. Lagos has the funds to financially compete with every state of the U.S., hmmm I can't laugh enough. Though I have to agree on the fiscal indiscipline but claiming they can compete based on vague assumptions is just mere obviously assumptions. What is the basis of assumption? Pretty much all states collect Sales taxes on pretty much EVERYTHING, when you go to purchase milk or bread in Lagos, are you charged sales tax? Every service you use has taxes, you have income taxes, Auto taxes (used for road maintenance etc), properties taxes (individual, commercial et al), there are TONS of taxes which states govt derive here that LAGOS is far from reaching and you're here saying they can compete. Taxes is just one of different ways state governments generate revenues.

Dude, unless there's a proper system in place, LAGOS is far away from competing financially with so many states in the U.S.

Leave The Karibi White hospital out of this,that's a topic for another day cos it's a landmark project which when completed cannot be compared to any medical facility in sub-saharan Africa.

Rivers State,particularly P.H is a place that i know like the back of my hands just as i do Lagos and i can authoritatively tell without bias and prejudice that their munincipal hospitals are better equiped and funded than the ones in Lagos

Rivers state and the south-south as a whole is one region i'll advice every patriotic Nigerian to visit before errorneously adjudging Fashola as the best there is

Public health care system is ABSOLUTELY FREE in Rivers and as a matter of fact,the states private hospitals and SCHOOLS are now seriously struggling as a result of their inability to measure up with the adequately-funded and managed government hospital and schools,parents are now withdrawing their kids from private schools to enrol in public schools.

I do not currently have in my possession,pictorial evidences but should anyone think am lieing or exagerating,then i suggest he/she goes there to witness it first hand. I guess people are turning a blind eye at the Amechi's stellar performance because he's a member of the PDP,If he joins the ACN today people would begin to realise how articulate and resourceful he's been all along

lol.

Puff puff pass, Olalekan.

Don't keep that good ish you've been smoking all to yourself

Olalekan 0:

Leave The Karibi White hospital out of this,that's a topic for another day cos it's a landmark project which when completed cannot be compared to any medical facility in sub-saharan Africa.

Rivers State,particularly P.H is a place that i know like the back of my hands just as i do Lagos and i can authoritatively tell without bias and prejudice that their munincipal hospitals are better equiped and funded than the ones in Lagos

Rivers state and the south-south as a whole is one region i'll advice every patriotic Nigerian to visit before errorneously adjudging Fashola as the best there is

Public health care system is ABSOLUTELY FREE in Rivers and as a matter of fact,the states private hospitals and SCHOOLS are now seriously struggling as a result of their inability to measure up with the adequately-funded and managed government hospital and schools,parents are now withdrawing their kids from private schools to enrol in public schools.

I do not currently have in my possession,pictorial evidences but should anyone think am lieing or exagerating,then i suggest he/she goes there to witness it first hand. I guess people are turning a blind eye at the Amechi's stellar performance because he's a member of the PDP,If he joins the ACN today people would begin to realise how articulate and resourceful he's been all along

I realy feel like slapping myself for taking you seriously,

@manny4life, so you think the ACTUAL amount accrued to Lagos on a monthly basis is what Fashola states?

Are you saying Lagos and all other nigerian states do not falsify their books in connivance of the regulatory bodies?What about the alleged 2B Tinubu collects every month,what about the land they allocated to themselves? What about the 7B financial impropriety hanging on Speaker Ikuforiji's neck? What about Fashola's outrageous salary and emoluments? Have you ever head the cost of any one of their white elephant projects?

Did you not hear about the situation in Osun where the state's commissioner for finance stated the amount of money the state has in the bank and then the governor went on air to claim that the commissioner was incorrect and that the state does not actually have
anything close to that amount?

Olalekan 0:

@manny4life, so you think the ACTUAL amount accrued to Lagos on a monthly basis is what Fashola states?

Are you saying Lagos and all other nigerian states do not falsify their books in connivance of the regulatory bodies?What about the alleged 2B Tinubu collects every month,what about the land they allocated to themselves? What about the 7B financial impropriety hanging on Speaker Ikuforiji's neck? What about Fashola's outrageous salary and emoluments? Have you ever head the cost of any one of their white elephant projects?

Did you not hear about the situation in Osun where the state's commissioner for finance stated the amount of money the state has in the bank and then the governor went on air to claim that the commissioner was incorrect and that the state does not actually have
anything close to that amount?

Rumors is cheap and anybody is capable of formulating rumors, stick to credible and documented facts. Thank you.

Olalekan 0:

@manny4life, so you think the ACTUAL amount accrued to Lagos on a monthly basis is what Fashola states?

Dude, I'm a numbers guy, I deal with FACTS and NOT assumptions only with an exception to "Forecasting" which is used in different fields; Math, Finance, Geography, etc.  I cannot simply assume without facts incorrect data, so YES, in as long as Fashola went to the capital markets to borrow, trust and believe there are financial analyst / forensic auditors who their job is to scrutinize financial statement and trace any aspect of fraud from the government and come up with recommendation. Now, I'm not arguing that the state cannot divide it's revenues how it wants, in fact, they may receive X amount of revenues annually and may decide to give 1/10 of X to whosoever and write it off as good will, that is acceptable, what I'm arguing is the reporting --- understating and overstating of numbers.

Olalekan 0:


Are you saying Lagos and all other nigerian states do not falsify their books in connivance of the regulatory bodies?What about the alleged 2B Tinubu collects every month,what about the land they allocated to themselves? What about the 7B financial impropriety hanging on Speaker Ikuforiji's neck? What about Fashola's outrageous salary and emoluments? Have you ever head the cost of any one of their white elephant projects?

No doubt that they don't connive with regulatory bodies, unfortunately, regulatory bodies DO NOT fund them, do they? Regulatory bodies, thought they are stakeholders, are not directly affected by adverse results from their decisions. Now, Nigerians states can and may in fact may be falsifying records, yeah, they might, but the moment you go up for financing, trust and believe, someone WILL definitely fish you out. No capital lender wants to borrow LASG $100million without the due financial investigation first.

I don't know about the 2Billion naira about Tinubu, I don't speculate news I'm not certain off, although if that's the case, I believe that LASG is writing it off as "commission" based on services provided by Tinubu company which is acceptable under any accounting reporting standards as long the "stakeholders" are ok with it. Stakeholders including Lagos residents, all institutions involved as well. As for the lands, I don't know about that so it's hard for me to comment on it. However, if it's part of Assets of the LASG, simple, they simply write it off. All they simply do is sell it to themselves for 1/20th of the value, so if the land cost N10million each, they sell it to themselves for N500,000 each.

There's no accounting that says you cannot write off bad assets, and even if they want to further decide not to pay the 500,000 themselves, LASG can guarantee the loans on the hope for repayment on a short period of time say 1 year, you and I clearly know they won't pay up, so LASG writes it off as "uncollected bad debts". Trust me, there are million ways to do clean fraud in accounting, you just need a forensic analyst to check for fraud.

Again, all of these can be done cleanly through accounting, all these are part of the accounting and finance, what I'm disputing is the external reporting process.

Olalekan 0:


Did you not hear about the situation in Osun where the state's commissioner for finance stated the amount of money the state has in the bank and then the governor went on air to claim that the commissioner was incorrect and that the state does not actually have
anything close to that amount?

Dude, I think you're confused between account entries/process and account reporting (per GASB). Finance commissioner can and may wish to say anything he chose so does the governor, bottom line is that, money in the bank (asset) is somewhat part of reporting, although the entries have to be made first. To be honest, I don't see how all these correlate, The two might have a dispute as to what's left in the account, it does not change the fact that Accounting reporting unfortunately has nothing to do with what's in the bank. Due to fluctuation of cash activit in the bank, it's really not advisable to use money in the bank to decide how fraud is going on, I mean, isn't that why we have statement of cash flows?

Olalekan 0:

Leave The Karibi White hospital out of this,that's a topic for another day cos it's a landmark project which when completed cannot be compared to any medical facility in sub-saharan Africa.

Rivers State,particularly P.H is a place that i know like the back of my hands just as i do Lagos and i can authoritatively tell without bias and prejudice that their munincipal hospitals are better equiped and funded than the ones in Lagos

Rivers state and the south-south as a whole is one region i'll advice every patriotic Nigerian to visit before errorneously adjudging Fashola as the best there is

Public health care system is ABSOLUTELY FREE in Rivers and as a matter of fact,the states private hospitals and SCHOOLS are now seriously struggling as a result of their inability to measure up with the adequately-funded and managed government hospital and schools,parents are now withdrawing their kids from private schools to enrol in public schools.

I do not currently have in my possession,pictorial evidences but should anyone think am lieing or exagerating,then i suggest he/she goes there to witness it first hand. I guess people are turning a blind eye at the Amechi's stellar performance because he's a member of the PDP,If he joins the ACN today people would begin to realise how articulate and resourceful he's been all along

You are probably right about the statement that if he moved to ACN, he would have some of the leeches on him, proclaiming him a god of some kind but there ought to be a better way to judge the situation than by mere word of mouth.

I mentioned the Karibi Whyte project as a project of that calibre, a solid project that not only addresses current needs but ensures to help build healthcare in Lagos, and possibly much of Nigeria, is what I expected from Lagos state after we were told that Tinubu spent 8 years planning what he wanted for Lagos and he 'imposed' fashola on the state so he could carry out the work. . . . yep, some actually explain it that way.

Like I said, I do suspect healthcare in places like Rivers state, and some of the surrounding areas rival that in Lagos, only I am not quite sure I can definitively proclaim them better than Lagos in the way you have. And I probably would not suggest that simply visiting said states would be all the evidence one needs as I know quite well how possible it is to have glorified structures just so we can shout from the roof tops that the governor has done something.

@manny4life,The very next time you're contributing to any thread on this forum kindly take into cognizance the fact that this is NIGERIA and not the U.S where there's little or no room for fraud

Second,since you feel all allegations of financial misconduct trailing all Lagos state officials are mere rumours and word of mouth,then the same argument and logic applies to Akala,Daniel,Bankole,Orji,Igbinedion,Alams,Anenih,Ciroma,Soludo,Atiku ,Iyabo Obasanjo,Lucky Igbinedion et al