this is something that has been bothering me for a while now
at the university i go to they have this gay/straight alliance club, i recently joined it because
i wanted to know why some people are gay, while there at one meeting yesterday, i got the time
to interact with this gay boy, who strongly believe that God made him gay, now he said it wasnt by choice
but something that he always knew he was, at the age of 10 he knew he was into the same sex, he never
was interested in playing with lil boys toys, but he prefered barbie dolls, walking in his mothers high heels, trying on
his moms clothes etc
the reason he believe God made him gay is because he has never in his life been interest in any boys stuff or females
but female stuff, make ups, putting on dresses, etc
i know some people are gay by choice , and they are some guys that people lable "oh hes gay" or he looks gay
because of their actions
just totally gay, that you cannot see them straight just completly feminine

If God surely made me and you straight-------men and women who enjoy the opposite sex, is it possible the same
God can make someone a lesbian or gay?

I don't think it's God's will for anyone to be gay, just 'my opinion'

God didn't make him gay. He's just sounding off his excuse for his sexual preference - and of all things it has to be God's handiwork?

No, God didn't make him gay. Just another flimsy excuse.

God did not make him gay! people should stop blaming God for their own actions, they will not have that priviledge on the last day and may God help them when they have to face God and tell Him that blue-faced lie.
How does he know he was never interested in boys stuff? just another lame excuse to justify his perfidy!

PLS, WHICH GOD IS THAT YOUR FRIEND TALKING ABOUT? anyway, he might have his own God sha o, so that might not be too far-fetched.

@free

i got the time to interact with this gay boy,

ive been laughing for the past 5minutes, i mean the way you put it, "this gay boy", hahahahahahA, twas as if you were whispering to somebody, this gay boy,

Let me tell you the problem with that "gay boy" you met:
The Bible tells me and everyone else who reads and believes/doesnt believe in it that GOD MADE MAN, MALE AND FEMALE(fullstop). shikena. Nothing before and after that, It might be someone else who created him. Think about it, gay people dont have any other excuses than all the ones you listed as put to you by that 'gay-boy'.

Number 2, pls, tell the boy about this wonderful country Nigeria. Invite him to come here and see wild animals. Tell him he'll see a lot of adventure and real-time wildlife. I hereby volunteer as his escort. Ill be wearing my tuxedo to make him look dignified when i meet him at the airport, and ill drive him to Ikeja to where he can be flogged with real koboko. I believe that after 3hrs, he'll become a MAN,

abi, be ko?

God says we should multiply and fill the earth how can this be fulfilled when some are practicing lesbianism and homosexualism i dont think God made him gay at allllllllll it's the world that made him gay he musnt say stuffs like that God might get angry

if there be such a god,pls GOD send him my way

In my opinion, your friend is actually telling the truth, he didn't decide to be physically attracted to men, in much the same way heterosexual men don't choose to be attracted to women, so in a sense he's claim that GOd made him gay is valid. It is also my opinion that the Bible doesn't condemn non-practising homosexuals, and in fact it is possible that marriage would cover the fornicating part.

The options I feel that could be open to him are, to become a celibate homosexual christian who believes "GOD hates gays", become a married christian homosexual, or deconvert from christianity and become a buddhist. I'm sure there are other options, but those were the ones I could think of.

kimba:

Number 2, please, tell the boy about this wonderful country Nigeria. Invite him to come here and see wild animals. Tell him he'll see a lot of adventure and real-time wildlife. I hereby volunteer as his escort. Ill be wearing my tuxedo to make him look dignified when i meet him at the airport, and ill drive him to Ikeja to where he can be flogged with real koboko. I believe that after 3hrs, he'll become a MAN,

Yes, because we all know there are no homosexuals in Africa, especially not Nigeria; and it is even more clear that excessive beatings will not only make a MAN (Grunt, Grunt) out of you, but it will also rid you of all traces of homosexual tendencies.

I kind of like white girls. If i see a white girl and a black/naija girl. I check out the white girls body. Like real check out, while i I give the black girl/naija a quick glance. unless its exceptional. Or if I am at a club. I head straight to the white girls. I can't help it. It's what I like.
Did God make me like white girls? maybe .
My point is that unless we understand where the gay boy is coming from we shouldn't judge harshly!.


personally i do not think God made anyone gay. I think satan/demons are involved. And it requires a desire to change from being gay to hetersexual, and prayers.

Well, I for one believe him, "the gay boy". To make a long story short: I was raised in the Nigerian community like many/most of you. I had never interacted w/ anyone who was opening gay before and in high school when ppl would spread rumors I always just assumed that it was ideal gossip and paid no attention, so in my own mind, I didn't know anyone gay. But in college I many gay friends. At first I tried to (& succeeded) at "forgetting" about their gayness so that I could be friends w/ them. Then I had 1 particular close gay friend (also a man) who told me basically what "the gay boy" told you. He had liked boy toys, in fact he like all toys, but he was always, always, always, attracted to other boys. That same semester I had my first openly gay professor. He was awesome! I'm talking as a professor here. I took several Anthropology courses w/ him. (This has nothing to do w/ it but whatever.) I also began reading James Baldwin. If you've never read anything of his, please, don't walk, run. He's a fabulous WRITER. One of his masterpieces, Just Above My Head, has a homosexual protagonist. I won't say anything about this novel b/c I cannot do it justice; Google it or something.

Anyhow, the sum of these experiences (the humanity and sensitivity along w/ my friendship) helped me form some of my opinions which is basically that GOD made everyone. And just as I have always been attracted to the opposite sex some ppl have always been attracted to the same sex & I think that GOD has a hand in this.

Of course, everyone is free to disagree w/ me. I just wanted to express myself.

we have loads and loads of gay men here in nigeria and africa unless u r new to the continent

KAG:

so in a sense he's claim that GOd made him gay is valid. It is also my opinion that the Bible doesn't condemn non-practising homosexuals

Really? And what God is that you're talking about?

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" Lev.20:13.

It is hilarious to read of the notion of "non-practising homosexuals" - what does it take to be a practising homosexual? Bottom line: anyone excusing his homosexual preference as God's handiwork is lying through his or her teeth. At best, they are welcome to claim and blame any other 'God' as responsible for their profession - but they definitely would not be referring to the same God who speaks in such texts in the Bible as Lev.20:13. The question of 'this gay boy' deconverting from christianity is stretching the story a bit too far - there's nothing in the original post to suggest that he was a Christian. In black and white in Genesis, God created the first humans male and female and called them 'Adam and Eve' - not Adam and Steve. The Bible does not encourage fornication, so I don't agree with you that "it is possible that marriage would cover the fornicating part."

@ pearldrops,

we have loads and loads of gay men here in nigeria and africa unless you're new to the continent

Are you serious, perhaps there might be, but not pronounced as the case may be, as in someone saying that hes been feeling gay since he was 10. I wonder what kind of family would have accomodated such a person in this nigeria,

Anyway, if youre serious about the loads of gay men in nigeria, pls tell me more, are they hiding coz ive not seen any. I once lived in a country where u can see them gay men putting on makeup etc, wearing minis in public(dont ask me where), ofcourse, thats extreme but u never know, Nigerians usually like outshining the rest of the world.

pls tell me more,

choice.A:

Really? And what God is that you're talking about?

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" Lev.20:13.

GOD = christian God (once again thanks christians for hijacking the word, the English language salutes you). That's the maosiac law, remember "Christ came to save us from the law", or something like that. Those laws in essenec don't apply anymore.

It is hilarious to read of the notion of "non-practising homosexuals" - what does it take to be a practising homosexual?

Sexual relations.

Bottom line: anyone excusing his homosexual preference as God's handiwork is lying through his or her teeth. At best, they are welcome to claim and blame any other 'God' as responsible for their profession - but they definitely would not be referring to the same God who speaks in such texts in the Bible as Lev.20:13.

Lying is perhaps too strong. If he truly believes that all things were planned by GOD, and he clearly believes that his sexual preference, like many heterosexuals, was not a conscious choice, then it is plausible and logical to believe GOD made him gay.

The question of 'this gay boy' deconverting from christianity is stretching the story a bit too far - there's nothing in the original post to suggest that he was a Christian.

He says "God", the name used colloquailly by christians to mean their God, made him gay, it isn't a stretch to imagine he is a christian. Also, there are many homosexual christians, so that advice applies to them too.

In black and white in Genesis, God created the first humans male and female and called them 'Adam and Eve' - not Adam and Steve. The Bible does not encourage fornication, so I don't agree with you that "it is possible that marriage would cover the fornicating part."

What I meant by marriage covering the fornicating part was, if he is the type that worries about fornication, he can now get married, ergo he won't be fornicating with his partner. Hurray for same sex marriages. By the way the Adam and Eve story is mythical, and yes many christians accept and believe that.

kimba:

@ pearldrops,

Are you serious, perhaps there might be, but not pronounced as the case may be, as in someone saying that hes been feeling gay since he was 10. I wonder what kind of family would have accomodated such a person in this nigeria,

Anyway, if youre serious about the loads of gay men in nigeria, please tell me more, are they hiding because ive not seen any. I once lived in a country where u can see them gay men putting on makeup etc, wearing minis in public(don't ask me where), ofcourse, thats extreme but u never know, Nigerians usually like outshining the rest of the world.

please tell me more,

Maybe you need to update your gaydar . I keed

God ke? If you like to take it in the ass you like to take it in the ass ni yen,  psh

KAG,

Your response is simply hilarious. In stating that "GOD = christian God " you assume that the English name/word 'God' must have been hijacked by Christians. So much for misrepresenting facts. So, anyone who talks about God today must necessarily be referring to the Christian God? - if you could only sell that story to the Hindus who see their religion as predating Christianity, and still talk about 'God' without necessarily referring to the Christian deity.

I don't know if you've been reading another book, but I find it no where stated in the Bible that Christ came to save us from the mosaic law. The two things indicated in the Bible in this context are that (a) Christ came to save us from our sins (Matt.1:21 and I Tim.1:15), and (b) Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes (Rom.10:4). That Christ is the end of the Law does not mean that we are no longer obliged to live in righteousness as the Law stipulates - for what is an abomination in the OT does not suddenly become a licence for lasciviousness in the NT. "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [Rom 7:12]. Just because Leviticus is under the OT economy does not justify or relax the implications of homosexuality in the NT dealings of God with man. Let me reference this with a few quotes -

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." [Rom.1:27, KJV]; "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [I Cor.6:9-10, ESV].


Just because someone believes just about anything does not establish a case for his or her adventure. I have heard some very silly things in just the same strain of thought. If people reason that "all things were planned by God" and the many stupid things they do under the sun are not a conscious choice of theirs, it still doesn't change the fact that they're lying. And that is precisely why we challenge such hypocrisy and ask that they point out the verses in the Bible that justify their homosexual preferences as the handiwork of the Christian God. At best, they could talk about the million and one gods out there and I as a Christian would not lose sleep over that.

KAG:

By the way the Adam and Eve story is mythical, and yes many christians accept and believe that.

KAG,

Did you say that 'the Adam and Eve story is mythical?' You want proof? Don't make me laugh. Just go to your bedroom, take off your clothes, bend down, and look at your middle region. What do you see? If you're married, ask your husband (or boyfriend) to do the same. If you both have the same 'thing' as Steve, then Eve didn't exist and she's only a myth! Yes, then I would be one of those so-called miss-road 'Christians' who would believe that when God made Adam and Eve as male and female, it was all a myth.

Don't bet on it, 4get_me. You never could be so sure about who is married to who. I don't mean any harm, and definitely not taking a swipe at KAG, but there are lots of couples who are homosexuals/straight who believe that the Christian God is to be blamed for the choices they make. That is the very notion I'm challenging.

choice.A:

KAG,

Your response is simply hilarious. In stating that "GOD = christian God " you assume that the English name/word 'God' must have been hijacked by Christians. So much for misrepresenting facts. So, anyone who talks about God today must necessarily be referring to the Christian God? - if you could only sell that story to the Hindus who see their religion as predating Christianity, and still talk about 'God' without necessarily referring to the Christian deity.

I fear you misunderstood me, in many parts of the world where christian evangelists have spread the christian doctrine (amongst other things), the christian God is often referred to simply as GOD. "I prayed to GOD last night", , "GOD made me all that I am today", "GOD created the universe", etc. Hindus on the other hand don't refer to their God(s) as GOD, they say Brahma (sp?), Ganesh, etc. What's even more telling about the usage of GOD for the christian deity, is the fact that many from other religions, call the christian deity GOD too.

I don't know if you've been reading another book, but I find it no where stated in the Bible that Christ came to save us from the mosaic law. The two things indicated in the Bible in this context are that (a) Christ came to save us from our sins (Matt.1:21 and I Tim.1:15), and (b) Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes (Rom.10:4). That Christ is the end of the Law does not mean that we are no longer obliged to live in righteousness as the Law stipulates - for what is an abomination in the OT does not suddenly become a licence for lasciviousness in the NT. "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [Rom 7:12]. Just because Leviticus is under the OT economy does not justify or relax the implications of homosexuality in the NT dealings of God with man. Let me reference this with a few quotes -

Gal 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law", Gal 5:18, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." The very fact that christians do neither practise "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth", nor do they bother to keep the Sabbath day free from any work, shows that the Mosiac laws have been superceded. It is pehaps telling that Jesus who had nothing to say about homosexuality, preached love and commitment.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." [Rom.1:27, KJV]; "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [I Cor.6:9-10, ESV].

See here: http://www.christianlesbians.com/articles/biblehomosexuality.php?id=000012, for an indepth article into why they don't apply.

Just because someone believes just about anything does not establish a case for his or her adventure. I have heard some very silly things in just the same strain of thought. If people reason that "all things were planned by God" and the many stupid things they do under the sun are not a conscious choice of theirs, it still doesn't change the fact that they're lying. And that is precisely why we challenge such hypocrisy and ask that they point out the verses in the Bible that justify their homosexual preferences as the handiwork of the Christian God. At best, they could talk about the million and one gods out there and I as a Christian would not lose sleep over that.

The point is, are most of our sexual orientations concious choices? Do homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex anymore than heterosexuals choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? The young man, like many homosexuals, claims he never made a concious choice to be attracted to the same sex; if that is the case, and it is evident to me that it doesn't seem to be a conscious choice, then they could make an argument that they were "created" that way by GOD (if they are christians).

4get_me:

KAG,

Did you say that 'the Adam and Eve story is mythical?' You want proof? Don't make me laugh. Just go to your bedroom, take off your clothes, bend down, and look at your middle region. What do you see? If you're married, ask your husband (or boyfriend) to do the same. If you both have the same 'thing' as Steve, then Eve didn't exist and she's only a myth! Yes, then I would be one of those so-called miss-road 'Christians' who would believe that when God made Adam and Eve as male and female, it was all a myth.

The fact that there are distinguishing traits between men and women is not the myth, the story itself is the myth. The Icarus tale is a myth, but that doesn't mean the Sun doesn't exist.

KAG:

I fear you misunderstood me, in many parts of the world where christian evangelists have spread the christian doctrine (amongst other things), the christian God is often referred to simply as GOD. "I prayed to GOD last night", , "GOD made me all that I am today", "GOD created the universe", etc. Hindus on the other hand don't refer to their God(s) as GOD, they say Brahma (sp?), Ganesh, etc. What's even more telling about the usage of GOD for the christian deity, is the fact that many from other religions, call the christian deity GOD too.

I have met many people from other religions who speak of 'God' as the deity of their religion - and not even one of them would readily think first and foremost of the Christian God when you mention 'God' to them. For example, in religious discussions with some of my friends of the Bahá'i faith, the moment I mention 'God' to them, they readily think of the deity they worship in their religion. Although its history is recent, Bahá'i believe quite a few things about God that sound 'Christian', but that is not to mean that just because they also call Him 'God' in English, therefore it is the Christian God that they are speaking of. The one thing a Bahá'i sharply disagrees with the Christian about God is that "God cannot become incarnate in a human being." [You may find this link helpful: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/bahai/beliefs/god.shtml]. I'd say you're inaccurate in representing this view that anyone mentioning 'God' must be speaking of the Christian deity by default; and if that's what you'll still try to drive around, it would only mean you're forcing this idea without any justification. Incidentally, when my Bahá'i friends leave me offlines (Yahoo IMs), they say just the same things as you mentioned in your reply - "I prayed to GOD last night", "GOD made me all that I am today", "GOD created the universe" - and for all that, none of them ever was referring to the Christian deity!

To be fair, I went to the site you offered in your last reply - and I was shocked to find it confirmed my suspicion. On the one hand, as far as I'm concerned, the writer did not discuss the Biblical position of immoral sexual activities as is clearly stated in Lev.20:13 - it doesn't matter to me whatever translations he or she was reading. Okay, they don't read 'homosexual' prior to 1946, but 'effeminate' was the hush word? So, what were the writer(s) trying to sell - that 'effeminate' persons were heirs of the Kingdom of God whereas 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says 'No'? Let's be honest with ourselves. The truth is, homosexuality is listed as a sexual sin in God's eyes, and it does not matter who else feels it's right. Go figure - even the word 'catamites' (a boy who has a sexual relationship with a man) is not disconnected from this practice; although the author, in quoting Daniel Helminiak, wants us to believe that homosexuality was not an issue as far back as 347-407 A.D. What these gentlemen should realise is that Leviticus 20:13 was penned long before then, and even the New Testament did not countenance such sexual vice. Let me put it simply: in sexual relations, "man + man = homosexuality" - and that is what Rom.1:27 clearly states ('men with men working that which is unseemly'). In the list of verses given in the article on the website, I wonder how it is that the author just did not see the Rom.1:27 text - and by all means shied away from it.

KAG:

The point is, are most of our sexual orientations concious choices? Do homosexuals choose to be attracted to the same sex anymore than heterosexuals choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? The young man, like many homosexuals, claims he never made a concious choice to be attracted to the same sex; if that is the case, and it is evident to me that it doesn't seem to be a conscious choice, then they could make an argument that they were "created" that way by GOD (if they are christians).

Please. I offer again that the young man could not have been referring to the Christian God. There's just a simple way to look at it: God speaks through the Bible about the way He created us, and states in clear terms that His design in sex was not homsexual, else we would not find Lev.20:13 (OT) and Rom.1:27 (NT) in our Bibles. Think about it for a moment: if He sees these acts as both 'abominable' (OT) and 'unseemly' (NT), why would He want to create people this way and then later punish them for what was not borne out of their conscious choices? It is alright for someone to make a claim that God created him or her in a certain way, but if we look in the Bible (speaking as a Christian now) and find that He did not create them that way, who would be lying?

KAG:

Gal 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law", Gal 5:18, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." The very fact that christians do neither practise "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth", nor do they bother to keep the Sabbath day free from any work, shows that the Mosiac laws have been superceded. It is pehaps telling that Jesus who had nothing to say about homosexuality, preached love and commitment.

It is true that Jesus preached love and commitment - but just what do these terms mean if one still parades a lifestyle that the Bible openly discountenances? Your reasoning here does not make a strong point. If Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality, does that in itself make it an OK lifestyle? Again, it is also true that Jesus had nothing to say about abortion; but does that make abortion a happy-clappy thing to pursue? Just because Jesus seemed to have said nothing about one issue or another does not justify an act in itself. "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." [Gal. 5:18]. My question then is, who would really be claiming they are led of the Spirit if they were holding a lifestyle that Rom.1:27 does not approve of?

Anyone could claim just about anything - but if they were referring to the Christian God as responsible for their preferred lifestyles while excusing themselves as not consciously choosing to do so, I'd call their bluff and challenge their lies by asking they point out their beliefs or convictions from the Bible itself.

winks

@ choice.A

If the "young man in question" was referring to a Christian God or another God, what does it matter?

How does this change your opinion?

I've heard people make the same statement as the "young man in question" and they were explicitly referring to a Christian God, so how does this change anything?

I'm just wondering b/c I no longer understand the focus of this discussion.

is that god near or far?

Posted by: choice.A
Please. I offer again that the young man could not have been referring to the Christian God. There's just a simple way to look at it: God speaks through the Bible about the way He created us, and states in clear terms that His design in sex was not homsexual, else we would not find Lev.20:13 (OT) and Rom.1:27 (NT) in our Bibles. Think about it for a moment: if He sees these acts as both 'abominable' (OT) and 'unseemly' (NT), why would He want to create people this way and then later punish them for what was not borne out of their conscious choices? It is alright for someone to make a claim that God created him or her in a certain way, but if we look in the Bible (speaking as a Christian now) and find that He did not create them that way, who would be lying?

So you're saying that if this gay man is a christian he certainly doesnt believe in the same 'God' as you because he is gay?

If you havent walked a mile in someone's shoes, don't judge them.
Gays are as much humans as non-gays. And God loves us all.

I don't think God made anyone Gay otherwise He wldnt have had Lev.20:13 in his word.
There are folks who decided by choice to be gay {am not even talking about those because they just got the nuts in their head downside up}
But for those gay folks who cldnt help it, its like someone trying so hard to quit a bad habit and its just not going away. I think these people need a strong self will to fight it out.
It makes no sense to say that u were created that way just because u cldnt conquer that habit.


A serial killer should then say God created him to kill innocent people abi

How on earth do people get to say stuff like this?
Lioness,how can you make two completely opposite statements in one post?That really baffles me!You say you wont judge someone unless you've walked a mile in their shoes and yet you compare a gay person to a serial killer?
FOR BLEEDING SAKES,BEING GAY IS NOT A BAD HABIT!

@ Spikecylinder,

Dont be in a haste aight. There are no comparism whatsoever.
In summary I said:
Dont judge Gays
Some gays actually tried to stop being gay {because they see it as bad & not right} but they cldnt
Its like someone trying to stop a bad habit and s/he cant.
Gays shouldnt say God made them so otherwise even the serial killer would say the same.


WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND??

Why cant gays say God made them that way?Are you saying someone else made them?