oh shoot! my bad!

i apologiz. i was seeing double. dont be offended abeg!

oh shoot! my bad!

i apologize. i was seeing double. dont be offended abeg!    

lol. No problem o!

@spikecylinder

well, i can now see your bases for arguing and thats exactly what i had to establish before goin any further
It doesnt make sense telling a blind man - "see the river is blue"  

And for the records, am not in the position to justify your religion/belief. But just be sure of the God you believe in

@ spike

i feel stupid but thanks anyway

@Rolly,no sweat o!We're friends now arent we?

Hey Rolly, everyone makes mistakes - and I don't think you should feel __ ! U're d best!  

Lioness,what exactly have you seen and what are you saying?

@ choice and spike

Geez! dont make me blush too much    thanks tho  

well, lets just say, everyone is different with different lifestyles and belief system

Are you just realising that?
You should realise that each and every time you tackle someone else's beliefs, you would always hit a stone wall.

spikedcylinder:

Are you just realising that?
You should realise that each and every time you tackle someone else's beliefs, you would always hit a stone wall

Hey spike, don't take it that far - no one's attacking your belief; she was curious, and if you didn't state your belief system from the onset, you don't need to be so up in arms. I noticed that when people talk about 'God' they don't necessarily are thinking of the Christian deity - and that's what I've always maintained. Your statement that certain chapeters in the Bible were other people's opinions and that God doesn't have a 'so called son' could be taken as the same thing you sulk about: tackling someone's else's beliefs.

@spike

Its funny you should say "someone's belief". YOU AINT GAT ONE SWEETHEART.
That was why i withdrew from the argument and started asking questions.
Now that i know that you really have no belief, why should i waste my time continuing

ok people, people!!! lets keep our beliefs to ourselves abeg. we are all entitled to it. we may have questions and all but all the same we just came here to answer a question. i think we have done that . so please lets not argue. i made the mistake but please, people abeg

I don't have a belief?really?you would say that because, ?

When i said something about chapters in the bible and the divinity of Jesus,i was not attacking anyone's beliefe,i was just stating WHAT I DONT believe in.Simple.

spikedcylinder:

When i said something about chapters in the bible and the divinity of Jesus,i was not attacking anyone's beliefe,i was just stating WHAT I DONT believe in.Simple.

You don't believe God has a Son is not the same as "that so called son is divine". How would you feel if I referred to your belief as a 'so called' religion in fair exchange? You could state something without attempting to slur the beliefs that are different from yours.

Anyway, could we just move on and leave this petty issue behind us?

Yes please,lets move on.

phew!!! great. so what now?

we all get to shake our butts!

choice.A:

The fact that you're trying to interpret the Bible as a non-Christian is forgiveable,

Okay? I don't see what that has to do with anything, especially as the Bible is not a book that is indecipherable (is that even a word?) by non-christians. What's more, many christians, both homosexual and heterosexual, agree with my premise.

but that still does not carry the point that homosexuality is an OK lifestyle from the Christian point of view. If you read Romans in the Bible, you'll see that God was not focusing merely on "the Roman heterosexuals" but on everyone in every place engaged in the practice condemned in Rom.1:27. The scope of Romans is "for obedience to the faith among all nations" - (Rom.1:5); and when God says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (ch.3:23), you certainly would not suppose that was limited to just the "Roman sinners", would you?

Actually, it is more evident that he is addressing the Romans specifically, especially if you take verses 7-15 into consideration. Reading in the context it was written in, shows that Paul was preaching against the practise of Roman heterosexuals who dabbled in lustful homosexual practises which were unnatural to them, and that preaching could be applied to moden day heterosexuals too, but he is no way condemning homosexuality. Also, in Romans 3:23, just like in the firts chapter, Paul is telling the Romans, they, like all humans, are born sinners. What he was stating applied to the Romans, but we in modern times can read it and realise that according to Paul, all men are sinners.

So, let me ask: does the love of Christ pass the bill for promoting what the Mosaic Law forbids? I don't think so. The ten commandments are part of the Mosaic Law; by the same reasoning that we are not under the Mosaic Law, does that mean it is okay for anyone today to kill, steal, commit adultery, and bear false witness against one's neighbour? (Exo.20:13-16). The fact that Christ came preaching grace and love does not mean that the implications and significance of the Law is thrown overboard wholesale.

Of course, it is not right to steal etc, but we don't need the mosaic laws to know that, because Jesus surmised the ten commandments in Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The mosaic laws and commandments were not thrown overboard, but superceded by he who preached, "turn the other cheek", as opposed to the mosaic "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth".

Your opinion. But putting words in Christ's mouth does not help the argument.

Aye, it is what i assume he would have believed though.

Good to note that homosexuals were around in Jesus' time. But just because He apparently did not say anything on the issue does not mean that He gave His consent. Leviticus is part of Jesus' assertion in Matt.4:4 - "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." He definitely shamed those who felt that God's Word could be relaxed just to suit people's appetites for whatever they chose (Matt.15:1-9). Anyone carefully studying Jesus' teaching would know what to do with Lev.20:13 - would Jesus have nullified that warning simply because He came to preach love?

Once again, Leviticus' take on homosexuals, is as applicable as the decrees on menstruating women, garments made of two different materials, and the many more laws that only applied in the Mosaic era.

No Christian would be justified in stating that God made them gay or homosexual - Eccl.7:29 refutes that notion: "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions."

How does that verse refute the notion of God creating a human with a sexual attraction to the same sex?

I apologise for my strong verbiage in calling their bluff as straight lies. But I still maintain that people choosing to be gay or homosexuals or whatever does not mean that God made them so - from the Christian point of view. Nowhere is that thought sustained in the Bible as far as 'man + man = homosexuality' is a discountenanced lifestyle in God's eyes.

What about people that don't choose to be gay, they know they are gay, believe it's a sin, and thereafter have to spend their lives in celibacy. They can't have relationships that involve the kind of love and companionship their heterosexual counterparts enjoy. What about them? Can they claim GOD made them gay?

BIBLE:
But one of you will say to me: “If this is so, how can God find fault with anyone? For who can resist God's will?” But who are you, my friend, to answer God back? A clay pot does not ask the man who made it: “Why did you make me like this?” After all, the man who makes the pot has the right to use the clay as he wishes, and to make two pots from one lump of clay, one for special occasions and one for ordinary use. And the same is true of what God has done (Rom 9:19-22).

ME:
It s amazing how we borrow ideas from allover to support our own point of view or our belief system without even thinking it through. Please people, for once lets think out of the box. Forget silly statements like, God created Adam and Eve not Steve and root your arguments in substance.

As for me, I dont know if God made this boy GAY or not but what does it really matter. Gay people are here to stay whether you like it or not, whether God made them or not, whether they are sick or not, whether they are genetically disposed to be gay or not, whether it is by choice or not, whether they were molested or not, whether they are black or white, hausa or Ibo e.t.c. Everyone's case may be quite different. Therefore, Judge not and you shall not be judged. For judgement is for God alone.

We should learn to tolerate that which we don't like or approve of bc this is planet earth and everyone is different. If you cannot tolerate other peoples lifestyle, then may be you are the one that has a problem. This planet is not created just for one person or a group of people with special qualities.

But I know one thing, on the last day (for those of us who believe on judgement day) the truth shall be revealed. And I bet you, there might be Gay people allowed into God's presence before me and you. Dont be suprised when that happens. Those who have ear, let them listen.



BIBLE:
“O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand, Shall the potter be esteemed as clay; that the thing made should say of him that made it, ‘He made me not’; or the thing formed say of him that formed it, ‘He hath no understanding’?” (Isaiah 64:8; 29:16).

i dont think i want to impose my beliefs int other people, but i think he was saying that he was born gay and if he believes in God then that means God made him gay. me i believe u can be born gay, science have said it has some thing to do with your hormones and chromosomes and an imbalance can generate a third sex(hermaphrodites). but really everyone is made different and the extent to ones gayness ( if thats a word), depends on how screwed up u became in the birth process

scientists say a lot of stuff, science said the world was flat, and killed everybody who said it was round.

so i don't believe their chromosome stuff. Being gay is a lifestyle choice. we tend to take responsiblity when good things happen to us eg "I'm smart"!, and when bad things happen we attribute them to external forces beyond our control. "God made me do it", "oh it's the devil".

God made Adam, and said go forth and multiply. How are you gonna multiply with homosexual sex?

scientists say a lot of stuff,yea but they also make interesting discoveries.They cannot be right all the time even thought they are right most of the time.

Posted by: bluenubian
depends on how screwed up u became in the birth process

Its statements like this that gets me pissed off, who told you gay people are 'screwed up'?

I have a problem with the fact that people keep saying that this boy was blaming his "gayness" on God. I don't think most people see it as laying BLAME on God. I think they are doing what the rest of us do, which is attributing their creation in general to God. Honestly, how many people who have commented actually know someone who is gay? And do you know the consequences of trying to keep that hidden from the rest of the world?

I have done extensive research on the consequences of those men/women who attempt to lead a heterosexual lifestyle while still having homosexual feelings. In the majority of cases the homosexuals who attempt to lead a straight lifestyle and even get married and/or have children have numerous issues. Those include abusive behaviors towards the spouse/children and alcohol/drug abuse. Asking a homosexual to ignore their feelings like it's some kind of bad habit is the same as asking a heterosexual to ignore their feelings and live a homosexual lifestyle.

And please, as a Christian I'm asking you, stop taking Leviticus out of context. If you must condemn the sins listed in Leviticus then I would suggest that you list all of the sins, that includes eating any sort of pork product, and ladies have you looked at the list of rules about how to deal with menstruation? If you're not reading the whole book and following every rule explicitly I really don't feel you have the right to throw that one small portion in someone's face. It seems to me that homosexuality is harped on because it makes people uncomfortable. It's listed in Leviticus, I don't contend that it's not listed as a sin, but I do protest the fact that you think that people choose this lifestyle. Do you know how difficult it is to live as a homosexual, even in someplace as "liberal" as the US?

A lot of people just fit the biblical laws into their convinence.Thats what i think.

Crap!!!!

There is no such thing as people were born gay. . All that chromozone shit is Crap!!

Dam straight Eddy

NO ITS NOT POSSIBLE !I THINK HES JUST LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO AVERT BLAME S FROM PEOPLE.
God created everything living but he said to man :i will make you a companion.That companion turned out to be a woman .
Who tolded you that your present sex status is a mistake.My dear what you need is serious deliverance and i'll recommend mountain of fire.

Shannon:

I I don't contend that it's not listed as a sin, but I do protest the fact that you think that people choose this lifestyle. Do you know how difficult it is to live as a homosexual, even in someplace as "liberal" as the US?

I am not for/against homosexuality but Shannon, please that "people choose their lifestyle" is not debatable. It may be an easy or a difficult choice but its a choice.

And also may I add, i know gay people.

bluenubian:

i don't think i want to impose my beliefs int other people, but i think he was saying that he was born gay and if he believes in God then that means God made him gay. me i believe u can be born gay, science have said it has some thing to do with your hormones and chromosomes and an imbalance can generate a third sex(hermaphrodites). but really everyone is made different and the extent to ones gayness ( if thats a word), depends on how screwed up u became in the birth process

I happen to be a biochemist and i know that virtually all your personality traits can be linked to a gene or the other. If i happen to be agressive, it won't stop my uncontrollable temper from being wrong will it? Lets call a spade a spade. The ability to trace the roots of a pattern of behaviour  does not justify the behaviour.

Shannon:

I have a problem with the fact that people keep saying that this boy was blaming his "gayness" on God. I don't think most people see it as laying BLAME on God. I think they are doing what the rest of us do, which is attributing their creation in general to God. Honestly, how many people who have commented actually know someone who is gay? And do you know the consequences of trying to keep that hidden from the rest of the world?

I have done extensive research on the consequences of those men/women who attempt to lead a heterosexual lifestyle while still having homosexual feelings. In the majority of cases the homosexuals who attempt to lead a straight lifestyle and even get married and/or have children have numerous issues. Those include abusive behaviors towards the spouse/children and alcohol/drug abuse. Asking a homosexual to ignore their feelings like it's some kind of bad habit is the same as asking a heterosexual to ignore their feelings and live a homosexual lifestyle.

And please, as a Christian I'm asking you, stop taking Leviticus out of context. If you must condemn the sins listed in Leviticus then I would suggest that you list all of the sins, that includes eating any sort of pork product, and ladies have you looked at the list of rules about how to deal with menstruation? If you're not reading the whole book and following every rule explicitly I really don't feel you have the right to throw that one small portion in someone's face. It seems to me that homosexuality is harped on because it makes people uncomfortable. It's listed in Leviticus, I don't contend that it's not listed as a sin, but I do protest the fact that you think that people choose this lifestyle. Do you know how difficult it is to live as a homosexual, even in someplace as "liberal" as the US?

Please read your bible in full before making arbritary statements ok? The new testament explains very clearly excactly how Christ amended the laws of the old testament. Nobody (at least i don't) grudges the homosexuals a right to live but i do take offence when they want to attend MY church and tell me to my face that MY God made them the way they are when He explicitly tells me in His book that He does not condone such a thing.