Chyz*:

Inferiority complex go kill you yoruba people.lol

see*noevil:


I couldn't get you a direct link on wikipedia as they are down now , however i used google cache to access wikipedia and i found this

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3Qqx8SKEyjoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire+wiki+oyo+empire+fulani+jihad&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ng

skip down to fulani jihad and then come back and tell us if the Oyo Empire (The Pinnacle of Yoruba civilization) wasn't destroyed militarily by the Fulani's.

jmaine:

See*noevil don give Kat's the much nedded encouragement to stay on the thread  . . .

Please remind me of when Yoruba people were conquered by Fulani folks? Islam existed in Yorubaland long before Afonja betrayed his people. Solagberu, one of Afonja's close aides was the leader of the Yoruba Muslims at Oke Suna. Alleging that Islam was introduced into Yorubaland by Fulani smacks of ignorance. Similarly, it is mischievous to suggest that Yoruba people were conquered by the Fulani. Don't confuse Hausa with Yoruba.

Even Ilorin that went under Fulani control was not conquered militarily.

Olodostein:

You make sense and good analogy. So the thing is, All Africans should go back to their forefather's religion.

That is not what asked fool. Do you always derive pleasure in displaying your foolishness?

exotik:

i never said the fulanis introduced islam to the yorubas. i only answered the question why hausa-fulani muslims do not respect yoruba muslims. and it is quite simple, because a yoruba group whether they were muslims, xtians, or shango worshippers were conquered by the hausa-fulani group unless u want to say ilorin is not a yorubaland. and whether u agree with it or not, the fall of old oyo to the hausa-fulani, did help spread islam amongst yoruba groups. kinda like how the british didnt introduce christianity to the edos, but the fall of of benin to the british did help spread christianity amongst edo groups.

i actually dont care how it was conquered. the bottomline is, it was conquered. and that was how ilorin became one of the bastard seven. and because the people in ilorin were a yoruba-group, the disrespect from the hausa-fulani group, rubbed off other yoruba groups who didnt come under the control of the hausa-fulani.

Zoroastrianism is similar to Yoruba in that both believe in the concept of good and bad but differ in that the Yoruba believe that good and evil exist for the common good of the universe while Zoroastrianism believes that good and bad are in an eternal fight. This is why the Yoruba say "Buburu ati fere ni o nrin po ("Bad and good things work together" amongst many other sayings. On the good side, you have the orishas and on the bad side, you have death, curse, sickness, etc

Behind this belief system, the Yoruba are able to accept, assimilate and modify any religion. This is why there isn’t too much of a difference between a Yoruba Muslim, Yoruba Methodist, Yoruba Catholic, Yoruba Anglican. These similarities breed tolerance. This is also why You have Yoruba Christians, Yoruba Muslims, and Yoruba traditionalists living in harmony in places such as Nigeria, Benin Republic, Cuba, and Brazil.

Dan Fodio’s conquest of the Hausa states,

if the hausa-fulani conquest of old oyo was not religious because the yorubas had muslims fighting on their side, then how was it religious in the hausa in the states? the hausas were already muslims for centuries before dan fodio's conquest but u term that religious and the yoruba conquest cultural. it doesnt make sense.

Negro_Ntns:

Wrong.  The Hausas were converted into Islam by the Fulani jihad.  The only people in North that practiced Islam before Fodio were the Kanemis - Gambari and Kanuri.

sbeezy8:

urhhhhh
Majority of People in Ilorin were not a yoruba group and never were. they were actually Bariba and Nupe muslim prior to Yorubas reaching Ilorin and then Fulanis. so Ilorin being Muslim because of "conquest" makes no sense, Igbomina aswell, Majority back then were NOT yoruba- but today they have assimilated into being yoruba with Language/culture Mainly Language.

Some Kwara people will tell you they are not yoruba- cause they technically aren't - Thats like calling Eguns in Lagos, yoruba- cause many dont speak Egun but only yoruba- they still arent yoruba.
I have Ilorin family that are NOT yoruba but technically Nupe/Bariba and call themselves yoruba because of assimilating.

Whether ilorin is Yorubaland or not varies from opinion to opinion.

[size=14pt]CALL IT YORUBA INFLUENCE[/size]

exotik:



i never said the fulanis introduced islam to the yorubas. i only answered the question why hausa-fulani muslims do not respect yoruba muslims. and it is quite simple, because a yoruba group whether they were muslims, xtians, or shango worshippers were conquered by the hausa-fulani group unless u want to say ilorin is not a yorubaland. and whether u agree with it or not, the fall of old oyo to the hausa-fulani, did help spread islam amongst yoruba groups. kinda like how the british didnt introduce christianity to the edos, but the fall of of benin to the british did help spread christianity amongst edo groups.

i actually dont care how it was conquered. the bottomline is, it was conquered. and that was how ilorin became one of the bastard seven. and because the people in ilorin were a yoruba-group, the disrespect from the hausa-fulani group, rubbed off other yoruba groups who didnt come under the control of the hausa-fulani.

so who are the "real" yorubas that are not assimilated yorubas when the yoruba construct itself is a contemporary identity?

let me give you history since you are taking us that far back into the Jihad war.  

 Every Sultan of the Sokoto Caliphate since Uthman dan Fodio himself spoke Yoruba.  It's a custom in the Fodio dynasty.  

Their founder, Usumani bii Foduye (popularly known and called Uthman dan Fodio) was born in Gobir of a Yoruba mother.  

Everytime you reference the battle and defeat of Ilorin, you need to be aware that Fulani had also suffered politically in the hands of Yoruba kings that sold them off as slaves.  

Wrong.  The Hausas were converted into Islam by the Fulani jihad.  The only people in North that practiced Islam before Fodio were the Kanemis - Gambari and Kanuri.

exotik:


i dont know anything about zoroastrianism abi na rastafarianism but the concept of ying-yang, darkness and light, good and evil complementing each other is nothing new. and the so-called yoruba saying sounds like a plagiarized version of romans 8:28 -- all things work together for the good

exotik:


and not to burst your bubble, but all religions are modified by indigenous people to suit their customs and language. even the british had to break away from rome to go form the church of england. and dat is why we all modified our indigenous name for god to suit the christian god for example olu,chukwu,oghene,osa,etc and praise and pray to the xtain god in their native tongue and not in latin. and also why so-called nigerian christians can comfortably marry three wives under same roof and attend same church every sunday with the entire family and see nothing wrong with it. and i really dont see how yoruba methodist would be diff from catholic and anglican anyways, they are all christians at the end of the day. as for yorubas xtains living in harmony with yoruba muslims and traditionalist, clearly they are not the only group doing that in nigeria. so wots the big deal?

exotik:


if the hausa-fulani conquest of old oyo was not religious because the yorubas had muslims fighting on their side, then how was it religious in the hausa in the states? the hausas were already muslims for centuries before dan fodio's conquest but u term that religious and the yoruba conquest cultural. it doesnt make sense.

good. i always like your version of history because it is full of fairy tales and that are quite comical

is there any history from the caliphate to confirm this? because i know u like theorizing a lot about shyte that never happened.

That is a very ignorant comment. When was the book of Romans written? Were there no religions/philosophy before the coming of Christ? Secondly, there can only be one True God. Is it not possible that early societies all had similar beliefs. I also CLEARLY explained the differences in interpretations amongst different groups but you naively reduced it to 'plagiarism'.

England did not break away from Rome for cultural or religious reasons. That was political. Anyone that has attended a Church of England mass will tell you that it is almost identical to the Catholic mass. Having a localised name for God is not the same as modifying religion?

Can you name any ethnic group in the world that practices 4 or 5 different religions in multiple countries but is not involved in any religious conflict? Any apart from the Yoruba

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the sacking of Oyo was as a result of the sige laid on it by another Yoruba king. Or was Lanloke also a Muslim?

Islam had been introduced into Hausa states mainly by Fulani scholars from the 15th century. Hausa elites, however, did not follow the tenets of Islam. The lived idolatrous lifestyles. They worshipped all kinds of animals and didn't treat their subjects fairly. Dan Fodio seized on this by silently preaching about the benefits of Islam to the people. The strength of his strategy was that the citizens would not protect their kings when the wars began and that is exactly what happened. The Fulani conquest of Hausa states were religious. No learned person would argue against this.

so yoruba is the only ethnic group do this?. now u are displaying your naivety. let me use example that i know, the edo people have muslims amongst them and traditionalists. have u heard of edo people fighting each other due to religious differences? another example that easily comes to mind, african-americans. they have all sorts of belief system with their group, have u heard them fighting each other due to religious differences?

so how can it be religious and not cultural even though the hausas also had muslims and traditionalist fighting on the same side? btw if it was the fulanis who introduced islam to the hausa, then who introduced it to the yorubas? was there another group apart from this same hausa-fulani?

On Queen Amina. . . you fool, who taught you Nigerian history?  Amina ruled in the times when Huasaland was worshipping idols and before Islam.  Queen Bilkisu was not a muslim, yet that is an Islamic name.  Names existed that were of AfroAsian descent but the people were not necessarily Muslims, even though it became Arabicised into Islam.

so a queen will adopt a muslim name without being muslim

exotik:

i had reduce it to plagarism because the yoruba saying is not recorded anywhere in history. so it could as well be a modern construct, who knows?

exotik:

so yoruba is the only ethnic group do this?.now u are displaying your naivety. let me use example that i know, the edo people have muslims amongst them and they also have traditionalists. have u heard of edo people fighting each other due to religious differences? another example that easily comes to mind, african-americans. they have all sorts of belief systems within their group, have u heard them fighting each other due to religious differences?

exotik:

so how can it be religious and not cultural even though the hausas also had muslims and traditionalist fighting on the same side? btw if it was the fulanis who introduced islam to the hausa, then who introduced it to the yorubas? was there another group apart from this same hausa-fulani?

Does that even make sense to you? Every group is entitled to its wisdom, system of beliefs, etc. I didn't even suggest that the Yorubas were the only group with such beliefs. I started by identifying other groups that share similar beliefs and identified the differences between them. You are arguing just for the sake of it.

Did you read my post in it's entirety? I stated and I quote "Can you name any ethnic group in the world that practices 4 or 5 different religions
in multiple countries but is not involved in any religious conflict? Any apart from the Yoruba?"

Did you miss the phrase 4 or 5 different religions in multiple countries? African-Americans are not an ethnic group. In any case, they are only found in the US. Same with the edos who are mainly found in Nigeria. Before you reply with there are edo people in Europe, I am referring to multiple generations living in a place. Besides, a majority of Edo people are christians. It is difficult to find a clear majority amongst the various religions practiced by Yoruba people. In Nigeria, it is between Christians and Muslims but globally, it is difficult to ascertain because of the high number of traditionalists in Brazil, Cuba, Haiti, and other Caribbean/Latin countries.

In case you missed the point - the Yoruba are in this unique position because of their belief system otherwise they would have been followers of one religion just as the Igbos, Europeans, Americans, Efik-Ibibio are Christian, the Hausa-Fulani and Arabs are Muslims. To buttress my point let me use the example of India. How many religions are in india? There are three major religions. Are they co-habiting peacefully? Was it not religious violence that led to India been broken into India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh?

It was religious because the leader of the conquest called it a JIHAD and reason given before and after the Fulani conquest was Islam. Was it only fulanis who could introduce Islam? Anyway, through trade and commerce travellers introduced Islam to Yorubaland. Even though there were no Muslims in Oyo, it built its first mosque in 1550 to cater for foreign travellers. (this is tolerance and cultural sophistication). Well, not one group of people introduced Islam to Yorubaland. After the fall of Oyo ile, many Muslims leaving in Oyo moved to other towns and thats how it spread to other places (and not for the reason you were suggesting earlier). These Muslims came from far and wide.

the problem is that u are limiting religion to only christianity and islam. well, that is not the case. a lot of groups in nigeria still worship their indigenous gods even though they have christians and muslims amongst them. the fact that yorubas have a higher amount of muslims does not score points because it only takes a few amount of people to use religion to stir trouble.

Negro_Ntns:



Exclude your people from this and exclude Hausa, since the two of you do not fall in that category of tolerant practitioners of the faiths.  Beside the Yoruba, which other group exist that practice Islam, Christianity and indigenous faith and the diversity has not caused a division on their land?

Alhaji Abu Bakar Hamid

What is now the heartland of the Eastend stretching off from main Kissy Road overlooking the Queen Elizabeth II quay and dreaded for its nerve racking - jostling traffic of vehicles, motor bikes and people was in the early 1700s a lush green hilly slope on which densely populated pastoral Foulah traders grazed their cows – hence the name Fullah Tong. They did not occupy the land for long.





The Foulah Tong Mosque

What is now the heartland of the Eastend stretching off from main Kissy Road overlooking the Queen Elizabeth II quay and dreaded for its nerve racking - jostling traffic of vehicles, motor bikes and people was in the early 1700s a lush green hilly slope on which densely populated pastoral Foulah traders grazed their cows – hence the name Fullah Tong.
They did not occupy the land for long.
“Freed slaves, recaptives and business people mostly Yoruba’s from Lagos and Abeokuta in Nigeria came into Sierra Leone during the 1700s and from the mouth of the Quay – since the most popular form of transport those days was by sea – they moved into Foulah tong and later spread into Fourah bay and Aberdeen,” Alhaji Abu Bakarr Hamid a revered son of the early Yoruba settlers who has spent the whole of his 58 years in the Foulah tong community recalled.
As the new group of settlers started building houses and cutting down the trees to expand the community, the Foulahs gradually left because the land was no longer suitable for rearing cows.
“They went further east to Kissy which was then still bushy” said Alhaji Hamid.
The Yorubas had founded a home, and Foulah tong became aYoruba hegemony with the culture and everything -Yoruba except the name.
These early Yoruba settlers were mainly Muslims probably that is why the Foulah Tong mosque became the epicenter of the community.
There are very many streets like tree branches shooting out from the main street (Mountain cut) named - First Street, Second Street, Third Street… and it seemed when they were tired of counting they gave typical Yoruba names to the streets, like Haderudeen Street.
Foulah tong in Freetown still bears the relics of colonialism captured in the architecture of the houses.
These houses are either board or stone houses with an upper room attached with a window which is known in local circles as “Kongosa Window” where most times the oldest member of the family who occupies such houses would position themselves to scrutinize every activity that goes on in the community, - and now and then deliver the greeting “e Karroh” (Yoruba word for ‘how are you’) to passers by, mostly when they want to be recognized.
Sadly though, many of these houses were lost, thanks to the January 6 invasion by rebels in Freetown, who burnt them, causing the landscape to now be increasingly dotted with modern architecture.
The Foulah Tong Mosque
The mosque stands stoutly on top of the hill on Mountain cut and Second Street. There had been claims that the mosque was a converted church, but Alhaji Hamid dispelled this.
He disclosed that the mosque was actually built in 1882, further up the mountain and not where it is presently located.
In those days Alhaji Hamid recalled there were serious persecutions in the community by Christians who considered non Christians as pagans.
“So there was a palaver and the Mosque was burnt down by these Christians.”
Another mosque was built opposite the mosque now but was again demolished after some years because it was not big enough.
Finally they built the massive structure which is what is now the Foulah Tong mosque and maintained the 1882 date as its establishment.” Alhaji Hamid narrated.
Amariah Primary School he said was also built in 1887 by Dr Blyden who saw the need for education and that the land was donated for the project by twins - Alhassan and Alusine.
The mosque and the school he said to a large extent came to mold the life, civilization and education of the Yoruba people in the Foulah Tong community.
The Former President of Sierra Leone, Tejan Kabbah was confirmed to have attended the Amariah Primary School, though he was not a Yoruba, others were the late Dr Sanusi Mustapha, Late Justice Nasiru Alghalie, Late Justice Bankole Rashid and Dr Aroun Daniya.
Alhaji said that the school was refurbished in 1997 by Plan International and that the whole community still uses the school’s playground to observe the feast of Eid-ul-ada.
A fading culture
“I think that the failure of the government to recognize Yoruba as one of the national languages was one of the pivotal agents that is killing the Yoruba people and language in this country,” Alhaji argued.
He disclosed that he could not speak the language as fluently as he wished to and it is getting worse with their own children.
“We found out now that we have to claim Creole and speak krio to properly identify ourselves in Sierra Leone other than that we are Yoruba and Nigerians (foreigners).
On the other hand it is actually interesting and peculiar for us Muslim Yorubas to claim ourselves as creoles with Muslim names like Mohamed Cole, Mucktaru Pearce, Osman Thomas, Saptieu King.
The Christian Creoles always think that they are the pure and original Creole people, but actually we are all brothers and sisters and came from the same origin with the same culture.” Alhaji Hamid explained.
He continued that the expanding natures of communities in cities, Freetown not excluded has unknotted the threads that held them as a cultural society.
Alhaji Hamid said that Foulah Tong had become cosmopolitan, in fact a home to many tribes than Yoruba, and that most of their properties have been sold out to other people so with the mix they cannot operate as a different entity with different cultural values but to move on and imbibe the various life styles and culture of other people.
With nostalgia Alhaji revealed that they were the tribe that started “Ashobie” which has been used now by everybody else for weddings and other celebrations.
He pointed out that they have very rich cultural celebrations for naming ceremony -‘Khomojade’, wedding and the observance of the three-day, seven-day and forty-day after burial.
“The unbraided ‘kaftan’ had been our cultural dress and bread and ‘fourah’ the delicacies served in all of our celebrations. The Ojeh and Hunting society was also introduced by the yorubas”
But all of theses are changing now Alhaji sighed, “The western culture is also affecting us, many of our children are overseas and they cannot keep these cultures. We hope that our heritage does not die out completely.
What they still have is the ‘Adikali’, the head of the court and the head of the community all in one.
The present Adikalie is Dr Fadlu Deen and his function is to settle all disputes brought to him ranging from land dispute, family palaver to marital problems but he seldom uses the ‘Tambaleh’ (traditional drum) only to announce the death of a very important personality or the day for pray-days.
However amidst all the changes of landscape, people, and culture Foulah Tong continues to sit on the hills stoically accepting the transformations as they come and waiting for the day its own name will be changed.

mukina2 (f)
Posts: 38542

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 Re: The Lost Yoruba Tribe - Yoruba Muslims Of Seirra Leone
« #18 on: October 21, 2009, 05:08 PM »  

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Quote from: Aloy~Emeka on October 21, 2009, 04:53 PM
@Knowall,

Is this a yoruba tribe found in Sierra Leone or Muslim Yoruba tribe?. Are you suggesting that only muslim yorubas emigrated to Sierra leone?. Islam is a religious identity and I don't know why you are attaching it to that tribe by all means because i am sure not all of them are muslims and the islam they accepted after moving to Sierra leone. So, they are not muslim yorubas, rather, they are Yorubas.


know you addressed this to knowall.

anyway
Foulah town is a predominately muslim town, there are Creole Christians living there too and yeah they live side by side, inter marry and inter everything with no  troubles.

so are u saying apart from igbo xtains, there are no igbo muslims and idol worshippers? or there or no muslims and idol worshippers in other groups?