@pilgrim


@babs787,

Was that meant to be a joke to hide behind another excuse?

Now brother Olabowale told you that Jesus never read the bible and you supplied a verse where he read the book of Elias, please is book Elias the bible? Did Jesus read the bible and please was He given same?

Babs, you no dey shame? Are you not old enough to keep playing this game of "oya answer me" when indeed you always scoot off a question and would never seek to address any issue until you 'tiff' material to plagiarize and call it YOUR OWN?

Read the question up please

On what exactly?

I no fit laugh o. Read my first response to your post up. You claimed that Jesus read the bible but the verse you supplied has book of Elias, now is book of Elias same as bible?

Well, it's unfortunate that I'll be off for a while. But I'll pop in after my exams and see the rough play you've been up to in my absence.

You will have to ignore your exams so that you will have enough time to respond to my posts .

@babs787,

babs787:

Now brother Olabowale told you that Jesus never read the bible and you supplied a verse where he read the book of Elias, please is book Elias the bible? Did Jesus read the bible and please was He given same?

If you are that shallow, we can bear with you. If someone gave you the book of Isaiah or any other OT book, would it be saying that he received the "Scriptures" of he did not?

The word 'Bible' is a collective term for the Scriptures. Your query would be like asking if Jesus read the "Scriptures". If your argument was that He never read it (because you really had no clues that He did), then we should ask you if indeed Isaiah was not regarded as SCRIPTURE?

We're familiar with the Muslim attitude of denying everything (even when it is clear that you Babs have contradicted the position of Islamic scholarship on "the Spirit". But you should understand that your DENIALS do not serve as intelligent discussion of facts. If you have any substance indeed, you should be able to show that Jesus NEVER read the Scriptures; but not even Olabowale would stoop so low to your level of duplicity.

babs787:

Read the question up please

Lol. . . there's nothing there - just another one of your bloviates to duck the core issues.

babs787:

I no fit laugh o. Read my first response to your post up. You claimed that Jesus read the bible but the verse you supplied has book of Elias, now is book of Elias same as bible?

See how repetitive bloopers keep showing up in your rejoinders?

Babs, repeating your excuses does not make you sound intelligent. One sure way you have well demonstrated that is to suppose there's such a thing as the "book of Elias" More feathers to your confusion; but that was supposed to be "Esaias" (which is simply 'Isaiah' - the very same prophetic books Muslims do not believe in).

babs787:

You will have to ignore your exams so that you will have enough time to respond to my posts

There's nothing worth reading in your shakara! Just let us know you're a big agbaya!!

TO ALL MUSLIMS AROUND. IA M VERY SORRY FOR NOT REPLYING SINCE BUT I SEE NO REASONABLE THING HERE FOR ME TO WRITE BACK ON FIRST AND FORMOST
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK EVERYONE HERE THAT SUPPOSE THE WHOLE WORLD WERE CHRISTIANS WHICH LAWS WILL BE USED TO LEAD THE PEOPLE. IS IT LAWS FROM THE OLD TESTERMENT OR MAN MADE LAWS.ISLAM IS THE PERFECT RELIGION WHICH PROVIDED A BASES FOR ALL THAT.

SECONDL, IS JESUS REALY GOD,SON OF GOD,PART OF GOD OR WHAT.IF HE IS ANY OF THESE THEN WHAT DO THESE VERSES MEAN

""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"


36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."
37. He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42. He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43. When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. Matthew 26:36-44 I WONDER IF HE WAS AFRAID

1- Mark 10:18 Jesus said “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

2- John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

3- John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

4- Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

IS THE GOD OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTERMENT THE SAME OR HAVE GOD CHANGED.WHY CANT ISLAM PREACH WAR AGAINST PAGANS WHILE THE BIBLE SAYS THESE WICKED THINGS OR EITHER MOSES WAS LYING.THEY WERE DIFFERENT GODS OR THE BIBLE IS FALSE AND REMEMBER JESUS SAID HE DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THES LAWS.

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)





You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

SO THE BIBLE PREACHES A HARSHER LAW THAN SHARIAH

I WOULD HAVE PREFER THE RELIGIOUS MUSLIM, BUT FOR ONE REASON I HATE THEM , HOW CAN SOMEONE TAKES A BOMB ON HIMSELF AND BLAST OFF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AND TELL ME HE IS GOING TO HEAVEN AND HIM OR HER IS FIGHT JIHAD WAR, WHY DONT GUYS ALLOW GOD TO FIGHT FOR HIMSELF.
THEY REALLY HAVE WICKED HEART,
FOR OTHER REASONS WHY I LIKE THEM , THEY ARE VERY DEVOTED TO THEIR RELIGION,A MUSLIM MAN DOESN'T THINKANY OTHER THING EXPECT HOW TO PRAY AND HOW TO BUILD A MOSQUE FOR THEIR ALLAH.
BUT WE CHRISTIANS SOLD OUT THIS GIFT TO THEM , WE ARE REALLY CHASING AFTER THE THINGS OF THE WORLD, BUT FOR MUSLIM PERSON HE/SHE IS CONTENTED WITH WHATEVER HE/SHE HAS GOT.

THERE ARE SIGN OF END TIMES , THE VERY DAY ISREAL WILL MAKE PEACE WITH HIS ENEMY THAT DAY THE WORLD HAS COMES TO END.NO CAN SETTLE THIS PEOPLE , THIS QUARREL HAS REALLY BEEN BEFORE WE WERE CREATED.CAN YOU JUST IMAGINE HOW ISREAL BECOMES THE ONLY NATIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARAB NATIONS AND WITH ALL THIS ,THEY CAN'T EVEN DEAR THEM IN ANY WAY , SMALL BUT MIGHTY.MOHAMMED ,JESUS
THEY ARE ALL SARVENT OF GOD.AND MESSAGES OF GOD.
GOD KNOWS BEST

WE SHOULD BE TOO SENTIMENTAL ABOUT RELIGION.AS FAR YOUR MIND IS CLEAR AND FREE FROM EVIL THEN YOU CAN MAKE HEAVEN AT END.

Don,

you started this thread. Unfortunately you have not bothered to go through all the pages only for you to come here and then think you can blend into the discussion without getting abreast of the prior discussions. What a clown you are!

As we have told you severally, I will re-iterate it here again:

Judaism existed in the Old Testament based grossly on the LAW and anchored by the prophets
Christainity is of the New Testament basd primariliy on GRACE and anchored by the Son of God himself

If Islam refers to the Old Testament to justify its muderious and barbaric actions, it shows that Islam is an archaic religion because the owners of the book has since left that platform to a more glorious one in the New Testament.

If the quran as shown in the below link supplied lends credence to the bible, to Chrsit and then to christains, I think we no longer have a case here. You guys should settle for your inferior, not-sin-free, orangish-red dyed hair, white, salvation-doubtful, prophet called Mohammad and let us settle for the one who has a sure confidence of the salvation of his adherents.

Thank you.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-86405.0.html#msg1595691

belloti:

How can you even attempt to compare the two. Man's words and God's words. This is from whichever way you are looking at it. If you what i mean

I tire for people like don [/b]o. The Quran lends credence to the [b]Bible shikena! It said that if you have doubts about mO's sayings, you should cmfirm from the christains. So, be true t yourself for just once: if there is a discrepancy between the two, which should give way? Answer the kweshun.

@cgift

The Quran lends credence to the Bible shikena! It said that if you have doubts about mO's sayings, you should cmfirm from the christains

That was if the bible had not been corrupted

“and do not overlay the truth with falsehood, and do not knowingly suppress the truth” (Quran 2:42)

@cgift

Judaism existed in the Old Testament based grossly on the LAW and anchored by the prophets
Christainity is of the New Testament basd primariliy on GRACE and anchored by the Son of God himself.

I tire for you apologist o. Is it not in your bible where Jesus said that he didnt come to annul that law but to fulfil it. I wonder why christian shift from OT when issues are mentioned therein but quick at citing that of tithe from the same OT. Na wa for una oooo

If Islam refers to the Old Testament to justify its muderious and barbaric actions, it shows that Islam is an archaic religion because the owners of the book has since left that platform to a more glorious one in the New Testament.

Are you referring to Moses and other prophets that fought in wars? Mind you, Moses was given the Injil and Torah for Jesus and not your OT and NT which you couldnt defend its authenticity. Was Jesus given the book of matthew to revelation?

I tire for people like don o. The Quran lends credence to the Bible shikena! It said that if you have doubts about mO's sayings, you should cmfirm from the christains. So, be true t yourself for just once: if there is a discrepancy between the two, which should give way? Answer the kweshun.

Answer the question yourself, is it the bible that was compiled before the Quran or Quran that came after it?

mdsocks:

@cgift
That was if the bible had not been corrupted

“and do not overlay the truth with falsehood, and do not knowingly suppress the truth” (Quran 2:42)

Oh! So your prophet did not know "the bible was going to be corrupted in the future" and still referred you to it. He was sure too blind and could not see beyond his nose. Else he would have told you not to bother. Your duplicity will only portray you as being unintelligent mind you.

babs787:

@cgift

I tire for you apologist o. Is it not in your bible where Jesus said that he didnt come to annul that law but to fulfil it. I wonder why christian shift from OT when issues are mentioned therein but quick at citing that of tithe from the same OT. Na wa for una oooo

You are gasping for breathe ehn? Jesus himself talked about the need to pay tithes in th New Testament. Dont be ridiculous bro. You are known for denials, I know you are no longer at ease with your blood thirsty prophet. But that is what he was, history cannot b re-written.

babs787:

Are you referring to Moses and other prophets that fought in wars? Mind you, Moses was given the Injil and Torah for Jesus and not your OT and NT which you couldnt defend its authenticity. Was Jesus given the book of matthew to revelation?

Base thinking. You cant understand. Islam is canst cos it draws inspiration from OT. You will never understand th mysteries of the killings in the OT even if I take time to explain them to you. So revel in your sword-suasion of your white skinned, red-haired prophet.

babs787:

Answer the question yourself, is it the bible that was compiled before the Quran or Quran that came after it?

Of what usefulness is that ugly question? Are you seeking for legitimacy of the foul nature the 'prophethood (_indeed)' of Mohammad or the moon-god, chief god allah of the arabians you worship?

@cgift

Oh! So your prophet did not know "the bible was going to be corrupted in the future" and still referred you to it. He was sure too blind and could not see beyond his nose. Else he would have told you not to bother. Your duplicity will only portray you as being unintelligent mind you.

Now I think you need to buckle up with regards to religious knowledge. I was once a christian like so, please do calm down and open your eyes to see the truth.

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!'

Quran 7v 157 states: "Those who follow the Messenger [Muhammad], the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good and prohibits them from what is bad; He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honor him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him- it is they who will prosper."

We Muslims believe that Allah Almighty did send the Torah to the Jews, but they then corrupted this Holy Message; "We (Allah) certainly gave the Book To Moses, but differences arose therein: had it not been That a Word had gone forth Before from thy Lord, the matter Would have been decided Between them: but they Are in suspicious doubt Concerning it. (Quran, 11 v 110)"

The original Message of the Torah was still around during Muhammad's time. But because the Jews had so much controversies, disputes and age-old prejudices among themselves, they ended up losing the entire original message. Please keep in mind that the Jews were divided into several tribes before Islam, and those tribes had so much problems. They never had One True Judaism as many Christians mistakenly believe. That is why the Jews massacred each others before and brought themselves from 11 tribes to only 2 (Judea and Samara located in what we call today West Bank Palestine) due to all of the blood shed that took place between them. A total of 9 tribes were completely wiped out. That is why "differences arose therein, " Allah Almighty promised hell to those Jews who caused the corruption of the Original Torah; "Know they not Allah Knoweth what they [the Jews] conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them [the Jews] illiterates, who know not the Book but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book [Old Testament] with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Quran 2 v 77-79)"

Some Christians believe that the Bible was documented 150 years after Jesus. Others believe it took 300 years. In either case, the gap is too big and no Christian can guarantee accuracy. That is why you read in their current books and Gospels things such as "And Jesus said to Matthew, " instead of "And Jesus said to me [Matthew], " and so on. Cases similar to this example literally exist in most of the New Testament of today, where they prove that the New Testament was not even written by its original authors. It was written by third party people, and their words are considered today the Word of GOD, which is wrong and sinful. The Christian sects also believe in different number of Gospels when you compare them to each others. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc

You are gasping for breathe ehn? Jesus himself talked about the need to pay tithes in th New Testament. Dont be ridiculous bro. You are known for denials, I know you are no longer at ease with your blood thirsty prophet. But that is what he was, history cannot b re-written.

With regards to the issue of being blood thirty, please do we say Moses and Old Testament God are also terrorist? Please can I have the tithe as said by Jesus in the NT?

Base thinking. You can't understand. Islam is canst because it draws inspiration from OT. You will never understand th mysteries of the killings in the OT even if I take time to explain them to you. So revel in your sword-suasion of your white skinned, red-haired prophet.

Why not explain if you are so sure of yourself. Read my question with regards to the killings perpetrated by Moses and OT God. I am still asking you, was Jesus given the revelation from matthew to revelation?

Of what usefulness is that ugly question? Are you seeking for legitimacy of the foul nature the 'prophethood (indeed)' of Mohammad or the moon-god, chief god allah of the arabians you worship?

I am just asking and waiting for your response and without muich a-do, you would have known that the updated one that came last would be the correct one because it talks on the previous one (bible)

babs787:

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest?

If Muhammad had received a "divine revelation" from Allah to obey an injunction, and then Muhammad's companion questions that very injunction, we can then see the gaps in what Muslims want people to believe is a "revelation" from God.

Your opening paragraph already told me where you were heading. Sad as it is, the Qur'an should then be jettisoned if Muslims feel that the best way to evaluate the word of God is to abandon what He has revealed on the excuses that the Qur'an is "newer" and the "latest". It would simply mean that after more than 15 centuries, the Qur'an has lost its vitality.

Babs, you don't use such fallacies to from men who lack integrity to argue a positive point. If that is what appeals to you, nothing really has changed in the inconsistencies Muslims so love to parade.

Regards.

pilgrim.1:

If Muhammad had received a "divine revelation" from Allah to obey an injunction, and then Muhammad's companion questions that very injunction, we can then see the gaps in what Muslims want people to believe is a "revelation" from God.

Your opening paragraph already told me where you were heading. Sad as it is, the Qur'an should then be jettisoned if Muslims feel that the best way to evaluate the word of God is to abandon what He has revealed on the excuses that the Qur'an is "newer" and the "latest". It would simply mean that after more than 15 centuries, the Qur'an has lost its vitality.

Your assumptions are lame

The Holy Quran as you know comprises of stories from other holy book in their purest form.

@mdsocks,

mdsocks:

Your assumptions are lame

The Holy Quran as you know comprises of stories from other holy book in their purest form.

Stop whinging - it's too early to cry boohoo.

If you're not that daft to misread your own Qur'an, you'd realize that Ibn 'Abbas was directly challenging the "revelation" of Allah and also rubbishing Muhammad's claim to be a prophet!

This is what is purported to have come from Allah:

Qur'an 10 v 94
If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee,
then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee:
the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord:
so be in no wise of those in doubt.

Now, if Allah has spoken those words at all, what do you suppose Ibn Abbas was trying to do by directly questioning that declaration from Allah? It is like saying that Ibn Abbas did not see any need for Allah to have even suggested that any Muslim ask those who have been reading the Book before them - thereby making Muhammad look like he needed the wisdom of Ibn Abbas over the word of Allah!

Dear mdsocks, before you make any otiose remarks, put on your thinking cap and T.H.I.N.K!! What Ibn Abbas was doing was directly question what Muhammad had claimed was revealed by Allah. The same Qur'an (ch. 2:108) says:

"Would ye question your Messenger as Moses was questioned of old?"

Did you open your eyes and read what Ibn Abbas was doing, if he was not directly questioning and challenging what Muhammad claimed was a "revelation" of Allah? >> "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'WHY do you ask the people of the scripture about anything . .??"

This is the same fraud that you guys shamelessly parade and then come to a public Forum to celebrate your utility-grade scholarship without a clue that Muhammad's companions were directly challenging what Allah was purported to have "revaled".

Whose word mattered to Muhammad - that of Allah, or that of Ibn Abbas?!?

Don't make me laugh.

@mdsocks,

Let me break it down for you in A-B-C format, okay?

#1. Allah says: "If you're in doubt. . . then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee"

#2. Ibn Abbas directly challenged Allah's "revelation" by saying:
"'WHY do you ask the people of the scripture about anything . .?? "


So, tell me. . . if it was just okay for Muhammad's companion to challenge whatever Allah purports to have "revealed", what credible basis do you suppose would make reasonable thinkers assume that there was integrity in the churning out of the Qur'an? Is that how Muslims are asked to challenge anything Allah has "revealed"?!?

Ciao.

@pilgrim

If Muhammad had received a "divine revelation" from Allah to obey an injunction, and then Muhammad's companion questions that very injunction, we can then see the gaps in what Muslims want people to believe is a "revelation" from God.

Can I have the verses where same was questioned. I am not even surprised at your denial and please it wont work with babs, trying to turn a verse/chapter upside wont work, let us sit down to business. Now when Jesus was given the message, did his people believe in Him and did they not doubt his work. Please this issus of Muhammad, didnt his companions accepted his messengershiup and his revelation, be honest to yourself o.

Your opening paragraph already told me where you were heading. Sad as it is, the Qur'an should then be jettisoned if Muslims feel that the best way to evaluate the word of God is to abandon what He has revealed on the excuses that the Qur'an is "newer" and the "latest". It would simply mean that after more than 15 centuries, the Qur'an has lost its vitality.

It hasnt and will never do that. I have responded above, and if you are still worried about the companions, hope you still remember that these companions came with the idea of bringing the Quran together when they were losing the memorizers to wars. If they never believed and doubted it, common, they wouldnt have done such a thing.

Babs, you don't use such fallacies to from men who lack integrity to argue a positive point. If that is what appeals to you, nothing really has changed in the inconsistencies Muslims so love to parade.

We have really seen who has been parading. Making denials with lenthy spurious posts yet couldnt defend what you have been claiming.

Regards.

Takia

pilgrim.1:

@mdsocks,

Let me break it down for you in A-B-C format, okay?

#1. Allah says: "If you're in doubt. . . then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee"

#2. Ibn Abbas directly challenged Allah's "revelation" by saying:
"'WHY do you ask the people of the scripture about anything . .?? "


So, tell me. . . if it was just okay for Muhammad's companion to challenge whatever Allah purports to have "revealed", what credible basis do you suppose would make reasonable thinkers assume that there was integrity in the churning out of the Qur'an? Is that how Muslims are asked to challenge anything Allah has "revealed"?!?

No need breaking it down for me
You need to first understand what he meant there

pilgrim.1:

@mdsocks,

If you're not that daft to misread your own Qur'an, you'd realize that Ibn 'Abbas was directly challenging the "revelation" of Allah and also rubbishing Muhammad's claim to be a prophet!

This is what is purported to have come from Allah:

Qur'an 10 v 94
If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee,
then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee:
the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord:
so be in no wise of those in doubt.

Now, if Allah has spoken those words at all, what do you suppose Ibn Abbas was trying to do by directly questioning that declaration from Allah? It is like saying that Ibn Abbas did not see any need for Allah to have even suggested that any Muslim ask those who have been reading the Book before them - thereby making Muhammad look like he needed the wisdom of Ibn Abbas over the word of Allah!

And was it Muhammad(pbuh), Allah was referrng to there

You need to read from a neutral point of view
Don't let the scalf over your face get you deep into ignorance

Dear mdsocks, before you make any otiose remarks, put on your thinking cap and T.H.I.N.K!! What Ibn Abbas was doing was directly question what Muhammad had claimed was revealed by Allah. The same Qur'an (ch. 2:108) says:

And would advise you same, to read and understand before copying and making crap analysis here

@babs787
She's confused !

@babs787,

babs787:

Can I have the verses where same was questioned. I am not even surprised at your denial and please it wont work with babs, trying to turn a verse/chapter upside wont work, let us sit down to business. Now when Jesus was given the message, did his people believe in Him and did they not doubt his work. Please this issus of Muhammad, didnt his companions accepted his messengershiup and his revelation, be honest to yourself o.

Keep confusing yourself with "I am not surprised at your denial. .  it won't work with me". Sorry, you're latecomer - the denial of Ibn Abbas has worked with you - DEAL with IT!! See the verse you're noising about in my rejoinder to mdsocks otiose remarks above. Did you guys sit down to think of the huge IMPLICATION of Ibn Abbas' directly questioning the very same thing that Muhammad claimed Allah revealed to him?

babs787:

It hasnt and will never do that. I have responded above, and if you are still worried about the companions, hope you still remember that these companions came with the idea of bringing the Quran together when they were losing the memorizers to wars. If they never believed and doubted it, common, they wouldnt have done such a thing.

The simple point is this: Ibn Abbas should have shut his trap - rather than QUESTION what Allah spoke to Muhammad.

If it is okay for Ibn Abbas to directly question Muhammad that way, then it is okay for every single verse of the Qur'an to be questioned. If you can't take it, then open your eyes and see the huge IMPLICATIONS of Ibn Abbas' query to Muhammad.

babs787:

We have really seen who has been parading. Making denials with lenthy spurious posts yet couldnt defend what you have been claiming.

Takia

Sorry, my detailed rejoinders were to show how you have failed to provide a single verse for the single question I asked. Don't cry over it - wake up and be honest enough to post the verse from the Qur'an to the question: WHERE did Allah ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?!?

As for the denials - keep living in the bloviates of the companions of Muhammad: it's not mine to worry about, it's yours to cry boohoo over.

Cherio.

@mdsocks,

mdsocks:

No need breaking it down for me
You need to first understand what he meant there

I broke it down for you because many times you guys pretend that you can no longer understand simple English when it comes to the obvious fantastic dregs of your traditions.

mdsocks:

And was it Muhammad(pbuh), Allah was referrng to there

You need to read from a neutral point of view
Don't let the scalf over your face get you deep into ignorance

I can't laugh enough at your confusion.

Okay: #1 - it was Muhammad that Allah was referring to, yes?

#2 - who was Ibn Abbas referring to if not the same Muhammad?

Are you just looking for real drama to fill the space because you don't know where else to turn to in order to hide what the scarf is unable to hide from our eyes?

mdsocks:

And would advise you same, to read and understand before copying and making crap analysis here

The 'crap' analysis should be discussed. if you can't do so, erase your bloviates and spare yourself further damamge to your IQ.

mdsocks:

@babs787
She's confused !

I hear!   That has always been the garboil lyrics of no-brainers. Cheers.

pilgrim.1:

@mdsocks,


The 'crap' analysis should be discussed. if you can't do so, erase your bloviates and spare yourself further damamge to your IQ.

I hear!   That has always been the garboil lyrics of no-brainers. Cheers.

Thanks, but to think that touches me
Nah not atall.
When you see a great mistake ofyours,you resort to name callings and others to discredit a post .

I broke it down for you because many times you guys pretend that you can no longer understand simple English when it comes to the obvious fantastic dregs of your traditions.

And where have i stated that?
No need need arguing to a confused mind

@mdsocks,

mdsocks:

Thanks, but to think that touches me
Nah not atall.

Of course, it wouldn't touch you. . . especially when you refuse to open your eyes and read what you're pretending is not there!

mdsocks:

When you see a great mistake ofyours,you resort to name callings and others to discredit a post .

Rubbish. How many times does one have to endure the typical Muslim attitude of not seeking to dialogue and then scooting away from topics and concerns being discussed to uncalled for digressions? What did you suddenly mean by "the scalf over your face get you deep into ignorance"?? Is that the way to point out what up until now you cannot point out? The subscript you left for your malady was: "She's confused" - and for all that, you could not show otherwise in your own rejoinders.

Abeg rest your fingers if you don't have anything meaningful to contribute.

mdsocks:

And where have i stated that?
No need need arguing to a confused mind

I hear. It is all up to you guys to walk me through what I have been missing - if you care to share. If not, no worries. . . because repeating yourself like a broken record and labelling me confused is a polite welcome I've always enjoyed!

Ciao.

@pilgrim


@babs787,

Keep confusing yourself with "I am not surprised at your denial. . it won't work with me". Sorry, you're latecomer - the denial of Ibn Abbas has worked with you - DEAL with IT!! See the verse you're noising about in my rejoinder to mdsocks otiose remarks above. Did you guys sit down to think of the huge IMPLICATION of Ibn Abbas' directly questioning the very same thing that Muhammad claimed Allah revealed to him?

Let me ask you a question, please if the Quran was questioned earlier, please havent they accepted the 'divine revelation'

The simple point is this: Ibn Abbas should have shut his trap - rather than QUESTION what Allah spoke to Muhammad.

I think you need to learn and stop picking anything out of contexts because it has not been helping you.

Since you claimed that Ibn Abbas questioned what Allah spoke, please is Ibn Abbas still a muslim and please if he is, why hasnt he left that religion and the message since he questioned the authenticity of same. You can see that you are confused

If it is okay for Ibn Abbas to directly question Muhammad that way, then it is okay for every single verse of the Qur'an to be questioned. If you can't take it, then open your eyes and see the huge IMPLICATIONS of Ibn Abbas' query to Muhammad.

I think that you are still confusing yourself. If Abbas did and your interpretation goes along with his, then why is still with that religion?" Another confusion



Sorry, my detailed rejoinders were to show how you have failed to provide a single verse for the single question I asked. Don't cry over it - wake up and be honest enough to post the verse from the Qur'an to the question: WHERE did Allah ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?!?


Dear, your explanation on the verse refering to Holy spirit has been refuted. If another spirit is coming while one has been existence, how many spirit are having together and please if you are still confused with regards to that verse, Jesus made a very straight forward statement that 'another comforter', how will holy spirit replace human spirit and still be another comforter when the one (Jesus) being talked about is human spirit and he made us known that another comforter, which means that another like him would come. So how does holy spirit fits into that, Is holy spirit like Jesus, is holy spirit human being. Keep confusing yourself my dear.

As for the denials - keep living in the bloviates of the companions of Muhammad: it's not mine to worry about, it's yours to cry boohoo over.

Cherio.

We hear you, no be today

Pilgrim, pls on a serious note, do me a favour Ignore babs hence forth. He knows he has lost it

@babs787,

babs787:

Let me ask you a question, please if the Quran was questioned earlier, please havent they accepted the 'divine revelation'

Please could I also suggest something? Don't try to argue away from the main issue here. The issue is simply this:

Ibn Abbas directly questioned what Muhammad said Allah "revealed" in Qur'an 10 v 94.

That is why I broke it down for mdsocks:

#1. Allah says: "If you're in doubt. . . then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee"

#2. Ibn Abbas directly challenged Allah's "revelation" by saying: "WHY do you ask the people of the scripture about anything . .??"

Whether they receive the Qur'an or not is not the issue here - Ibn Abbas directly challenged what Muhammad called Allah's "revelation" - and if that direct challenge is not something to make you see anything, then also you're opening the doors to invite that every other person can challenge anything Muhammad called "Allah's revelations".

Ibn Abbas did not carefully consider what was said in the same Qur'an (ch. 2:108):  "Would ye question your Messenger as Moses was questioned of old?"

But, your argument is seeking to ignore what the Qur'an says, just so that Ibn Abbas becomes a hero in your eyes, abi?

A godly person does not stand to controvert what he assumes to be from God. The moment he does that and nobody questions that contradiction of Ibn Abbas, then we see no reason why people will not want to follow Ibn Abbas' example and also question everything Muhammad said came from "Allah". That is the IMPLICATION I asked you to consider - and not the excuses to pretend you no longer understand English.

babs787:

I think you need to learn and stop picking anything out of contexts because it has not been helping you.

If you had any context to share for Ibn Abbas brashness, please do share and stop whinging.

babs787:

Since you claimed that Ibn Abbas questioned what Allah spoke, please is Ibn Abbas still a muslim and please if he is, why hasnt he left that religion and the message since he questioned the authenticity of same. You can see that you are confused

Sorry, I did not "claim" that Ibn Abbas "questioned" - I rather pointed out that he DID!! Open your eyes and show me that he did NOT!!

If it is okay for Ibn Abbas to be applauded for questioning Muhammad and controverting what Allah "revealed", and you're dancing away from the real issue to "but he is still a muslim", then we can sit back and celebrate the way people become and remain Muslims by following Ibn Abbas' example and controvert EVERYTHING and ANYTHING Muhammad said he received from Allah!

Babs, you're not thinking. Ibn Abbas directly controverted Muhammad' reveations - and you're asking if he is still a Muslim. Do people become Muslims by controverting Muhammad and his "revelations"?

babs787:

I think that you are still confusing yourself. If Abbas did and your interpretation goes along with his, then why is still with that religion?" Another confusion

Yes - the easy way out: accuse people of being "confused" - so that you can sit back and celebrate Ibn Abbas for controverting Allah. I applaud your low IQ.

babs787:

Dear, your explanation on the verse refering to Holy spirit has been refuted.

HAHAHAHAH-HOHOHO-HEHEHE!!  
That is the most hideous and hilarious HORSE-CRAP I ever came across on the internet!!

Where did you REFUTE my rejoinders on the FACT that Muhammad is not "THE SPIRIT"??

With WHAT did you REFUTE my rejoinders? - - With the FRAUD of Prof. Keith Moore and his slickers team which you copied-and-pasted? And where did ANY ONE of those slickers tell you that MUHAMMAD was ever called THE SPIRIT??!? You just sidon here dey hala - your explanation on the verse refering has been refuted!!

Babs, DUPLICITY is championed by YOU!

Muhammad is NOWHERE called "THE SPIRIT". QED.

jujukemist:

Pilgrim, please on a serious note, do me a favour Ignore babs hence forth. He knows he has lost it

Thank you my dear.

If readers can see the shameless duplicity he often waves about on the Forum, my job is done!

God bless you plenty.

@jujukemist


Pilgrim, please on a serious note, do me a favour Ignore babs hence forth. He knows he has lost it.

When your sister couldnt provide evidence where it referred to Holy spirit.



@pilgrim

Please could I also suggest something? Don't try to argue away from the main issue here. The issue is simply this:

Ibn Abbas directly questioned what Muhammad said Allah "revealed" in Qur'an 10 v 94.

That is why I broke it down for mdsocks:

#1. Allah says: "If you're in doubt. . . then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee"

Is that your interpretation of that verse and have you gone through other verses providing the status of Jesus?

#2. Ibn Abbas directly challenged Allah's "revelation" by saying: "WHY do you ask the people of the scripture about anything . .??"

You really understand Ibn Abbas, you are well versed in Islamic education. . Posting lenghty rejoinders yet confusing herself?

Whether they receive the Qur'an or not is not the issue here - Ibn Abbas directly challenged what Muhammad called Allah's "revelation" - and if that direct challenge is not something to make you see anything, then also you're opening the doors to invite that every other person can challenge anything Muhammad called "Allah's revelations".

I thought I have answered you there. You are just making baseless argument.

Ibn Abbas did not carefully consider what was said in the same Qur'an (ch. 2:108): "Would ye question your Messenger as Moses was questioned of old?"

Can you please provide the full text of that verse?

But, your argument is seeking to ignore what the Qur'an says, just so that Ibn Abbas becomes a hero in your eyes, abi?

It seems you are getting yourself confused more

A godly person does not stand to controvert what he assumes to be from God. The moment he does that and nobody questions that contradiction of Ibn Abbas, then we see no reason why people will not want to follow Ibn Abbas' example and also question everything Muhammad said came from "Allah". That is the IMPLICATION I asked you to consider - and not the excuses to pretend you no longer understand English.

Do I need to answer you. The accuracy of the Quran is there for you to ponder on. You may also go to search engine to learn about anything of same

If you had any context to share for Ibn Abbas brashness, please do share and stop whinging.

I sensed you are confused more. . I only need to be praying for you

If it is okay for Ibn Abbas to be applauded for questioning Muhammad and controverting what Allah "revealed", and you're dancing away from the real issue to "but he is still a muslim", then we can sit back and celebrate the way people become and remain Muslims by following Ibn Abbas' example and controvert EVERYTHING and ANYTHING Muhammad said he received from Allah!

E dey pain you. Your argument is baseless. Cant you see what you wrote yourself

@babs787,

Since morning, you're still in your boohoo.

babs787:

Is that your interpretation of that verse and have you gone through other verses providing the status of Jesus?

Smart attempt to divert the core conern about Ibn Abbas. Was Abbas querying the status of Jesus in the Qur'an?

You're simply making us laugh at the confirmation of why you should be completely ignored.

Deal with the issue, or keep playing you gimmicks. I've said it before - such duplicity is what you champion.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT NO RELIGION EVER CONDEMED SLAVERY.INFACT THE BIBLE HUMILATED SLAVES THE MOST.I WONDER WHY YOU BLAME MOHAMMED FOR HAVING SLAVE AND CATCHING SLAVES DURING WAR.COMPARE THE BIBLE TREATMENT OF SLAVES WITH THE QURAN.

The following are just two of the many verses of the Qur’an exhorting men to emancipate slaves AND HADITH
"Your slaves are your brothers. So if any one of you happens to have a slave, let him give him the same food that he himself eats, and the same clothing that he himself wears. And do not give them such work as is beyond their power to perform; and if you ever happen to give them such work, you should help them in doing it" (Maulana Muhammad Ali, A Manual of Hadith).

And what will make you comprehend what the uphill road is? It is to free a slave, or to feed in a day of hunger an orphan nearly related, or the poor man lying in the dust. Then he is of those who believe and exhort one another to mercy (90:12-17).
It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteous is the one who believes in God, and the Last Day…and gives away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask and to set slaves free…(2:177)

The institution of slavery being opposed to the Islamic teaching of the equality and dignity of men, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prohibited the taking of fresh slaves in very strong words:

"God says, There are three persons whose adversary in dispute I shall be on the Day of Judgement: a person who makes a promise in My name then acts unfaithfully, a person who enslaves a free person, sells him and devours his price, and a person who employs a man to do a work and exacts full work from him but does not pay him his full remuneration."
Finally, came the categorical command of God not only to emancipate slaves, but also to give them a part of one’s wealth to rehabilitate them:

And those of your slaves who ask for a writing of freedom, give them the writing, if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of God which He has given you (24:33).

LET US COMPARE WITH THE BIBLE
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)



"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


Once again God approves of forcible rape.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

THE THE NEW TESTERMENT NEVER TRIED TO IMPROVE THEIR TREATMENT BUT ENFORCED IT WITH THE FOLLOWING

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.



Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)



Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
SO YOU CAN QUOTE A WORST VERSE FROM THE QURAN. THE SO CALLED GOD/SON/MAN/SPIRIT OF THE BIBLE ALSO APROVES SLAVERY AND GOES FURTER TO TORTORE THEM.

Women in Islam and Christianity:

IT HAS BEEN A SUBJECT OF ATTACK TOWARDS ISLAM BY THE MEDIA.BUT LET US SEE DID ISLAM OR CHRISTIANITY EVER EMANCIPATE WOMEN.SO LET US SEE WHETHER THE STSTUS OF WOMEN IN PREDOMINANTLY CHRISTIAN NATION GENERALY IMPROVED AS A RESULT OF THERE LAXITY(INABILITY T OBEY BIBLE RULES) OR MERCY
OF CHRISTIANITY.

There is nothing in the reported sayings of Jesus which might serve as an incentive to raise the status of women.
St. Paul, who is the real founder of Christianity, regarded woman primarily as the temptress; he thought of her mainly as the inspirer of impure lusts. He laid the entire blame for the fall of man and genesis of sin on woman. In his Epistles, which are included in the Bible as holy scripture, he wrote:

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor" (1 Timothy 2: 11-14).
"For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels" (1 Corinthians 11: 8-10).

"Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its saviour. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands" (Ephesians 5:22-24).

"Women, you are the devil’s doorway. You have led astray one whom the devil would not dare attack directly. It is your fault that the Son of God had to die; you should always go in mourning and in rags" (Tertullian).
"Adam was led to sin by Eve and not Eve by Adam. It is just and right that woman accept as Lord and Master him whom she led to sin" (St. Ambrose).

"Among all savage beasts none is found so harmful as woman (St. John Chrysostom).

Woman had no separate identity, no legal status, in Christianity. In England, which was the most advanced Christian country, "up till the 1st of January 1883, it was true to state that, as a general rule, the contract of a married woman was void." She could not sue or be sued apart from her husband. The Married Woman’s Property Act, giving her the right to possess property in her own name, was passed in England as late as 1882

When we turn from Christianity to Islam, we find that the Qur’an clears woman of he responsibility for the fall of Adam and vindicates her honour and dignity. It raises the status of woman to make her man’s equal. Islam gave woman the same rights as those of man:

And women have rights similar to those against them in a just manner (2:228).
The modern man recognises that there can be no true freedom and dignity without economic rights. Fourteen hundred years ago Islam gave woman the right to inherit the property of her father and husband and to acquire, own and dispose of wealth as she liked. The Qur’an says:

For men is a share of what the parents and the near relatives leave, and for women a share of what the parents and the near relatives leave, whether it be little or much – an appointed share (4:7).
In marriage, woman is considered by Islam to be an equal and free partner. Marriage in Islam is a sacred contract between a man and a woman and the consent of both parties has to be taken before marriage can take place. The Qur’an describes woman as the companion of her husband – an object of love and source of peace and solace to him, as he to her:

And of His signs is this, that He created mates for you from yourselves that you might find quiet of mind in them, and He put between you love and compassion. Surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect (30:21).
Islam is the first religion to put restriction on polygamy. It allows a man to marry more than one wife in rare circumstances and under conditions which make it a well nigh impossibility. It says:

If you will not do justice then marry only one (4:3).
And a little later it adds:

You cannot do justice between wives, even though you wish it (4:129).

To impress upon his followers the exalted position of the mother and sacredness and dignity of womanhood, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) declared:

"Paradise lies at the feet of the mother."
He said:

"Women are the twin-halves of men,"
and that men and women are made of the same essence and have the same soul. Islam makes no distinction between them as regards their intellectual, moral and spiritual capabilities and rewards:

The believers, men and women, are friends one of another. They enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey God and His Messenger. As for these, God will have mercy on them. Surely God is Mighty, Wise (9:71).
Whoever does good, whether male or female, and has faith, We shall certainly make him (or her) live a good life, and We shall certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did (16:97).

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the charitable men and the charitable women, the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard, and the men who remember God much and the women who remember – God has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward (33:35).

Religious Freedom:
YOU CAN REFER TO ENCYCLOPEDIAS.

Just as Islam has made the State subject to the same ethical principles as govern individuals and has brought international relations within the scope of morality, making the subjugation and exploitation of one nation by another as reprehensible as the subjugation and exploitation of one man by another, in the same way, Islam has ordained justice, equality, freedom and mutual respect between one religion and another. In the Islamic social order all individuals and religious communities are free to follow the religion of their own choice. No individual or religious community has the right to impose its own beliefs on other or to restrict in any way the profession, preaching and practice by others of the religion which appeals to them. Says the Qur’an:

There is no compulsion in religion (2:256).
The fact is that Islam not only preaches toleration but it also enjoins upon its followers equal faith in the founders of all the great religions of the world. It invites people of all religions to join Muslims in forming a league of Faiths to uphold the principles of the unity of God, moral integrity and the brotherhood of man.

In Muslim countries, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Zoroastrians have enjoyed the freedom which, till recently, was totally denied to non-Christians in Christendom.

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8



Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude