Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man Muhammad.

Blabs787 na wa for you . . . who is your theology teacher? That imam deserves an award!

@babs787,

babs787:

So the prophecy is not for him.

And WHO was it for?  It is not enough to deny it, but you should go on and explain the One to whom it refers.

babs787:

Funny bros. Do you know that that is the language of Jesus. Have you verified the Greek bible?
Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man Muhammad.

Babs-babs!!  I marvel at your magicical re-engineering of words!

Abeg, eh. . . just for the record: there is no Greek word like "Periklytos". The usual Muslim thing is to damage their own intelligence by pretending a scholarship they don't have.

If I'm mistaken, please post the word both in Greek, the transliteration in English - and give examples where "at one time", the Greeks ever spoke "Periklytos" than later transformed into the name "Muhammad" in Greek".

You do well!

This is why I have advised you earlier: don't copy-and-paste wetin you no know and then pretend it is YOUR OWN!!

babs787 will be very angry with his imam for not preparing him adequately with propaganda, lies and revisionist history.

Nope. . . u don forget say PLAGIARISTS do not get angry with their Imams? Na celebrate dem go celebrate the fabu - and then they will stoop for the next wayo to postulate!

So. . . em, where is don maselo? Abi material don finish for net to duplicate?

MD SOCKS, she you don wear socks for your leg because electric go catch you You dey online now abi? Oya pour wetin you don go read. Pour am down. Nothing we dey fall from up wey ground no go take.

@mdsocks,

Abeg, when you settle down, I would like to read from you in respect of my rejoinder: (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-86405.32.html#msg1607256).

Sleep well. Enjoy.

@babs787,

Well, make I play with you small before I close for the day.

babs787:


Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: , i can of mine do nothing. etc

So the prophecy is not for him.

Let's get a few things straight.

(a) The prophecy did not describe "all prophets"; rather it was declaring the NAME of only one - the Messiah ("and his name shall be called Wonderful" - Isaiah 9:6);

(b) Even if all prophets are wonderful, and you can't accept that it was speaking in reference to the Messiah, then please tell us: WHO was that rpophecy referring to?

(c) Since you claim that ALL the prophets came with miracles ("They all came with miracles ", could you please show us the miracles of Muhammad? Where did Allah ever claim that Muhammad performed ANY miracle in the Qur'an? (read backwards from here). Do you remember what Muhammad claimed in the Hadith? Reminder:

'Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said,
"Every Prophet was given miracles because of which
people believed,

but what I have been given, is Divine Inspiration which
Allah has revealed to me.

So I hope that my followers will outnumber the followers of
the other Prophets on the Day of Resurrection."'

[Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 6, Book 61, #504]

Making claims that you cannot defend intelligently is not going to help any Muslim apologists on Nairaland.

babatunde don over blab! All prophets came with miracles? Mohammed came with his own miracle - being given the strength of 30 men.

davidylan:

babatunde don over blab! All prophets came with miracles? Muhammad came with his own miracle - being given the strength of 30 men.

Oh! you guys are ignorant Havnt you read of the miracle of breast slitting?

pilgrim.1, davidylan, cgift. You guys are WICKED! The Muslim Ummah don run!

@lafile,

lafile:

pilgrim.1, davidylan, cgift. You guys are WICKED! The Muslim Ummah don run!

Well, wetin we for do? Na discuss we try to hold with 'em. . . but, em. . em. . !!

On second thoughts, they actually have not run for cover - Muslim apologists do not operate like dat! They are cooling off to come back with "Newly Improved" version of their recycled games! You go see - na me talk am!!

We dey wait!

lets not be naive, for the bible say they claim a kind of spiruality but deny the power therof,

olrotimi:

lets not be naive, for the bible say they claim a kind of spiruality but deny the power therof,

wetin be ur point?

[list]
[li]1. Jesus was born of a virgin. (Mat 1:18-25)
Muhammad was born of a normal woman. (Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69)
2. Jesus served God as a child. (Luke 2:39-52)
Muhammad was and idolater. (Sahih Bukhari vol.6, p. 452)
3. Jesus read the Bible. (Luke:16-21)
Muhammad was illiterate. (Qur'an 7:156)
4. Jesus preached the gospel at God's command and lived on the donations of others. (Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3)
Muhammad, without being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods. (Ibn Hisham pp. 281-)
5. Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10)
Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)
6. Jesus made blind eyes see. (Luke 18:35-43)
Muhammad made seeing eyes blind. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
7. Jesus made the lame walk. (Matthew 9:2-
Muhammad made the walking lame. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
8. Jesus healed withered hands. (Matthew 12:10-13)
Muhammad cut off the hands of others. Sahih Bukhari vol.8, p. 520)
9. Jesus raised the dead. (John 11:1-45)
Muhammad had the living killed. Ibn Hisham p. 308)
10. Jesus forgave his opponents. (Luke 23:43)
Muhammad had his opponents murdered. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, pp. 248-)
Jesus set the condemned free. (John 8:1-11)
11. Muhammad condemned the free and led them into slavery. (Ibn Hisham p. 466)
12. Jesus preached in God's chosen temple. (Luke 20:1)
12. Muhammad prayed at the Ka'ba when it still contained hundreds of idols. (Sahih Bukari vol. 1, p. 151)
13. Jesus preached against divorce. (Matthew 5:31-32)
13. Muhammad preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation. (Mut'a) (Qur'an 2:230, Sahih Bukhari vol. 7, p.
14. Jesus was sinless. (John 8:46)
14. Muhammad was sinful. (Qur'an 47:21 and Qur'an 110)
15. Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind. (John 1:29 and 10:18)
15. Muhammad died unexpectedly of illness (which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt). (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, p. 510)
16. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day after His death, and later ascended into heaven. (Luke 23 and 24)
16. Muhammad was buried in Medina on the third day after his death. His tomb is visited by pilgrims each year. (al-Tabari vol. 9, p. 208)
17. Jesus is God's Word and God Himself. (John 1:1, 14)
17. Muhammad was only a warner. (Qur'an 29:49[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list])
18. Jesus lives! Who would you choose?

@Pilgrim.1: The miracles of Muhammad (AS), are many. More than all the other prophets' miracles combined. It will be impossible for me to list them all. Also, it will be a waste of time for you and me. His (AS) miracles are classified to many categories: before his birth and prior to receiving any revelations, when he became a prophet till his death anf after his death.

While he was a youth, his wet nurse Halima and her household received tremendous blessings, by the presence of the blessed personage of Muhammad (AS). The man who you and all your cohort hate so much. Read his life history and learn something about the painstaking effort that his followers have employed to keep the least of the events of his life for all to examine.

During his 23 years as a prophet, in Makka, the Quraishi tribe people demanded a miracle from him. Allah gave him one, right away. It was the splitting of the moon! It is detailed in the Qur'an, in just one verse. Google the miracles of Muhammad (AS) and you will be satisfied! Another is the water gushing out of his blessed fingers, when he and his followers (ra), did not have enough for their normal usage. Qur'an is mentioned as his miracle because it is a miracle of mirales.

Qur'an, is immetiable. The book by its Revealer, God the Almighty Allah, has from over 14 centuaries, a standing challenge to all mankind, that it should produce a book, no, even a chapter to rival this unique book! Everyone, the arab non muslims and all have failed. In 2002, a band of american christians produced a book titled furqan: Qur'an, is also known as Furqan. I saw a copy in the month of Ramadan that year. It failed with the muslims, the world over! Everyone rejected it and the deceit of the christains were exposed for all to see.

After his death, we see that he predicted that his nation will spread and will reach the farthest of the corner of the earth. During his lifetime, Islam did not reach the majority of arabia. It touched only a tiny part of continental africa, namely Ethiopia. In his hadith, the blessed prophet was reported to say that he was taken to a mountain by Jibril (AS) and he was made to see the whole earth. He was told that his Ummah (Since you were once a muslima, you will be familiar with the word; it means nation/community), will reach all the places his sight had grasp. Today, we see islam reaching all and is meant for all.

It is not a religion for a people or tribe. The arabs edo not have exclusivity on Islam. Muhammad (AS) companions (ra), during his lifetime included Sayid Bilal ibn Rabah, a black man, former slave who was emancipated, through islam. He was the first caller to prayer. Ibrahiim (AS), being truly the first caller.
You have a roman named sayid Shuaib Al Rum (the africans say saibu. At least thats what the Yorubas say). From Asia, you have Sayid Salman Al Farsi. These were just men, who sorrounded him and they were christians before their conversions.

From the Jews, there were many who converted, without a treat or at the point of a sword against them. A learned and noteworthy among them is Abdullah (ra). He knew the signs of prophethood when he saw the holy prophet in Madina.

Today, there are still Jews and christians converting to Islam. Yes, there will be Muslims converting out of Islam. There are reasons for this conversions out of Islam. In all cases, it is because of the heart in the breast of that individual. If the heart is deseased, regardless of what the rest of the body presents, it will nhot work. You should search your heart and make repentance to God the Almighty your Creator.

There should never be partnership set up with Him. You have knowingly or unknowingly set up Jesus son of mary (AS), a mere prophet as equal to his Creator! This is an abomination. A thing that leads to hell! The fire of hell punishes severely! It is a decree that has been passed.

See, I did not shout or 'raise cane', in my speech. Please educate me about a temporary victory, which will never be everlasting.

Another of Muhammad's prediction is the plight of the muslims today. He spoke about the vastness of the head count, but with no substance, in that it will be weak. So weak that nations will call one another to feast on it, fight it, terrorise it, send fear to it and do as they please with it, as the way hungary people devour food set before them. We see what happened in african slave trade, when Islam was about 40% of the captives. We see what happened with Turks and the greater arab, when Laurence of arab was used to divide brothers/sisters against each other. Presently, we see what the collision of the willing led by America and Europe, are doing in Islamic lands; eg Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Sudan and Iran to come momentarily and others to follow, later.

Tell me pligrim.1, have you heard of how the american service men in Iraq will aggitate a man by their handling of his wife and daughter and any that they can use to get him upset, so that they can kill him? Is that the way Jesus preached to the Jews? The first to follow him without any other tribe in their rank? Is this the religion you find yourself in, abandoning what aggitates your consciousness, rather by the 'grace alone'? And Jesus (AS), never teached it. This was all Paul's idea. Turning the same religion of Jesus, Moses and the old prophets (AS), upside down!

efuah:

[list]
[li]1. Jesus was born of a virgin. (Mat 1:18-25)
Muhammad was born of a normal woman. (Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69)
2. Jesus served God as a child. (Luke 2:39-52)
Muhammad was and idolater. (Sahih Bukhari vol.6, p. 452)
3. Jesus read the Bible. (Luke:16-21)
Muhammad was illiterate. (Qur'an 7:156)
4. Jesus preached the gospel at God's command and lived on the donations of others. (Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3)
Muhammad, without being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods. (Ibn Hisham pp. 281-)
5. Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10)
Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)
6. Jesus made blind eyes see. (Luke 18:35-43)
Muhammad made seeing eyes blind. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
7. Jesus made the lame walk. (Matthew 9:2-
Muhammad made the walking lame. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
8. Jesus healed withered hands. (Matthew 12:10-13)
Muhammad cut off the hands of others. Sahih Bukhari vol.8, p. 520)
9. Jesus raised the dead. (John 11:1-45)
Muhammad had the living killed. Ibn Hisham p. 308)
10. Jesus forgave his opponents. (Luke 23:43)
Muhammad had his opponents murdered. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, pp. 248-)
Jesus set the condemned free. (John 8:1-11)
11. Muhammad condemned the free and led them into slavery. (Ibn Hisham p. 466)
12. Jesus preached in God's chosen temple. (Luke 20:1)
12. Muhammad prayed at the Ka'ba when it still contained hundreds of idols. (Sahih Bukari vol. 1, p. 151)
13. Jesus preached against divorce. (Matthew 5:31-32)
13. Muhammad preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation. (Mut'a) (Qur'an 2:230, Sahih Bukhari vol. 7, p.
14. Jesus was sinless. (John 8:46)
14. Muhammad was sinful. (Qur'an 47:21 and Qur'an 110)
15. Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind. (John 1:29 and 10:18)
15. Muhammad died unexpectedly of illness (which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt). (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, p. 510)
16. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day after His death, and later ascended into heaven. (Luke 23 and 24)
16. Muhammad was buried in Medina on the third day after his death. His tomb is visited by pilgrims each year. (al-Tabari vol. 9, p. 208)
17. Jesus is God's Word and God Himself. (John 1:1, 14)
17. Muhammad was only a warner. (Qur'an 29:49[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list])
18. Jesus lives! Who would you choose?

efuah! With all these things, even a barely literate man would choose JESUS

Hallelujah! Alhaji Olabowale is Alive and Well!!!

Of course it doesnt matter that he is still talking nonsense, lies and propaganda as usual.

@davidlan: I expect it from you. You will never change. regardless: God said in the Qur'an; They are deaf, blind and their hearts are hardened. Fela said; he miss road.

David, Aburo and i can call you that. I am busy and i have no time for you wisecracking rhetorics. Go and study your medicine and be a good doctor. then read Qur'an. then you will come to know.

Do not be blindly emotional and be deluded by the glitters of worldly things.

@pilgrims 1

Quote from: babs787 on October 22, 2007, 01:29 PM

Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: , i can of mine do nothing. etc

So the prophecy is not for him.

Let's get a few things straight.

(a) The prophecy did not describe "all prophets"; rather it was declaring the NAME of only one - the Messiah ("and his name shall be called Wonderful" - Isaiah 9:6);

Can you supply any verse to back you claim up that the above referred to Jesus. If you are thinking that the verses refers to Jesus because it mentioned wonderful, you can as well believe all prophets of God have been wonderful people. Acribing that word to Jesus alone will look like playing the game of dishonesty.

(b) Even if all prophets are wonderful, and you can't accept that it was speaking in reference to the Messiah, then please tell us: WHO was that rpophecy referring to?

Please where did it refer to the Messiah? I need solid proof please.

(c) Since you claim that ALL the prophets came with miracles ("They all came with miracles ", could you please show us the miracles of Muhammad? Where did Allah ever claim that Muhammad performed ANY miracle in the Qur'an? (read backwards from here). Do you remember what Muhammad claimed in the Hadith? Reminder:

'Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said,
"Every Prophet was given miracles because of which
people believed,

but what I have been given, is Divine Inspiration which
Allah has revealed to me.
So I hope that my followers will outnumber the followers of
the other Prophets on the Day of Resurrection."'

[Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 6, Book 61, #504]

Making claims that you cannot defend intelligently is not going to help any Muslim apologists on Nairaland.

Hope the above is self explanatory. He made mention of the miracle therein. I thought I supplied you the splitting of the moon, the night journey etc, his prophecies and so on.

Allah says in His Glorious Qur'an that you should engage people with kind words and good word of understanding. He also stated that when you are in a company of those who are ill speakers, of your religion, say peace to them and leave their company. The muslims should not respond to statements which are not substantiative. Anyone can make blind and untruthful statement.

You will never find muslims maligning the personage of Jesus (AS). We love him more than others will ever love him. From Muhammad we learnt of the quality of his mother. His miraculous deeds. Through Muhammad, every male and female, accepted and continue to accept mary, Jesus' mother as the best woman ever created. That alone is enough to show the truthfulnes of Muhammad (AS). Who could be that bold and honest, considering the time of Muhammad, his tribe and he was elevating a woman who ids not from the arab tribe as a whole! Yet, the disbelieving folks called me names that do not befit him.

Please muslims, do not engage anyone is the matter of religion that you may even fall into error. If God creats and feeds, yet there are abundance of people who do not accept His existence, then what can we do about the people who say bad things about a prophet.

The point to note is this, if the Jews refused to accept jesus, even though he was among them, how do we expect those who are Jews and offshoots of jews to accept Muhammad, from the arab tribe, which the jews hate so venomously? Yet, in the chrsitain book, John the baptist was asked by the learned of his people, if he was Elijah, the messiah or that prophet. His response was that he was none of the three. If Elijah was known and probably will come back, based on the tone of the question. And that the messiah was known as jesus, then tell me who is the prophet, the third in that question?

Has that prophet came or not and when will that prophet come? That prophet was clearly referred to, not that 'holy ghost or holy spirit'. Prophets are mortals, walking among people. From that question, we also see that Elijah will come back. So Jesus does not have exclusivity on returning from the view point of the Bible. It was probably known in the old testament and that was the reason the question was posed to John the Baptist.

Can anyone be sincere to tell us, the muslims, who is the third prophet. Knowing fully well that Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews (Oh, how i dislike to use the word Jew to describe the children of israel).

Muhammad had gone to heaven and returned, in a part of one Night! That is a miracle and that miracle did not shock is followers. Abu bakr was nicknamed Sadiq because of that.

Muhammad received revelations for 23 years. His companions say Angel gabrael come to him. This is in the hadith Jibril; known as 'He came to teach you your religion'.

Let us leave emotion aside and approach issues with sensibility. Jesus, like every being is limited in every way. Unlike God Who holds absolute power.

Will the christians who have faith in jesus alone go to paradise? Hardly, because Hitler was a devoted christian! The history of christianity is full of it.

The key to paradise however, is La illaha Ilallah, Muhammadar rRasulullah.

@all,

It is very, very sad that Jesus, the son of God and Prophet Mohammed, a prophet of God are being subjected to blasphemous remarks. How does these exchanges by the opposing parties help one to get to heaven? How does the claims and counter claims benefit the discussants?  Did God tell any of the discussants to compare and contrast Jesus and Mohammed? Honestly, we human beings are really incomprehensible. We drag sacred concepts and personalities into our divisions and prejudices. The spiritual journey of man is not a football match where supporters of opposing teams want to win at all cost and see nothing wrong in their own team. Strange as it may sound, the statements uttered on these pages will confront their authors someday and each will answer to God for their utterances. My advice is that whenever you are asked the merits and demerits of other religions or their leaders, do not enter into it even when you see the deficiencies. Concentrate on serving God and living according to his laws. If you really have the the calling as a servant of God, God will give you the power to open the eyes and ears of fellow human beings to the Truth. A servant of God does not hiss up, he or she calmly follows the will of God and let others be.

olabowale:

@davidlan: I expect it from you. You will never change. regardless: God said in the Qur'an; They are deaf, blind and their hearts are hardened. Fela said; he miss road.

Did god truly say so in the quran? Or are you borrowing again from the bible and claiming it was mentioned in ur quran?

@m_nwanko: You are correct in almost everything that you said. However, the muslim position is that Jesus is neither the son or God the Almighty Himself! Period. There is no need for God to have a son, truly begotten or otherwise, except all the prophets before Jesus would have said it. It would have remained in the consciousness of man. Further Jesus, himself never said it. We must take into account that Jesus writings and revelation were not preserved, during his lifetime.

All we have are the story of his journey, at best. The according to type of writing does not give credence to accuracy! Just imagine the owesomeness of God. That is very hard to completely grasp, since our abilities are limited. Then that God have sons and begotten son!

Glory to God, for He is far superior to all that they ascribed to Him! There is no son or sonship, or equal or coequal to God.

In a saying of a companion of Muhammad (AS), after his death and during the reign of Umar ibn Khattab (ra), the companion said that he had three things that God Almighty does not have; One of them is a wife, the others are Children/offsprings and the last is need! All of these three are what people and creation need. God does not have any of them. Infact, they do not befit His majesty!

@Davidlan: In chapter 2 of the Qur'an, and others you will find it. Further, in that secon chapter, it is verse 18 or 19. You should read the Qur'an. By the way I miss you and the rest of the gang, havila in particular. I hope everything is well?

@ Olabowale,

I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I know that Prophet Mohammed is a prophet of God. I also know that any human being who serves God will at some point in his development come to these recognitions. Therefore, their is no point in giving explanations in these pages.

@m_nwanko: If truly that Muhammad is a prophet of God, the he must have been telling the truth. For a true prophet can not lie. Then something is wrong with the statement made by whoever made it that Jesus is son of God. For sure, Jesus never said it. Who ever said it, must have lied on Jesus and also on his Lord! Please make sure your research is done properly and you should come to a sure conclusion.

@olabowale,

Hi there.

I'm quite used to the frantic reactions of Muslim apologetics when there's really nothing to be alarmed about - and it's quite unfortunate that your first post to me falls into that category (that, just being mild with your case). Nevermind that most of your concerns have been well addressed in several of my entries in discussing with Muslims, all the same I'll just address one line in yours for the intro:

olabowale:

Tell me pligrim.1, have you heard of how the american service men in Iraq will aggitate a man by their handling of his wife and daughter and any that they can use to get him upset, so that they can kill him? Is that the way Jesus preached to the Jews? The first to follow him without any other tribe in their rank? Is this the religion you find yourself in, abandoning what aggitates your consciousness, rather by the 'grace alone'? And Jesus (AS), never teached it. This was all Paul's ideap. Turning the same religion of Jesus, Moses and the old prophets (AS), upside down!

Let me first clear a few things in your aggitation. It is true, dear Olabowale, that I converted from Islam to find salvation in Christ. there were several reasons that led to this, and it did not happen in just one day! Formerly, I used to think that it was intelligence and wits that might help me - but more than that, I had a living experience with Jesus Christ: and that encounter convinced me beyond all (un)reasonable doubts that what the Bible teaches about Jesus Christ is TRUE. I will not choose to be over-reactive about this; but suffice to say that you're a late-comer to this kind of panic measure typical of Muslim defence of Islam, where you guys always point to some incidents away from the Bible as if that is enough to discredit the Christian Faith.

Now, let me give you some other pointers that may help you engage in a more matured discussion in the future. Following you quote above, my response:

1. What the American Service men may have done (as you claimed) does not tally with the message of Christianity. You are badly shooting yourself in the leg if you suppose that such kinds of acts "was all Paul's idea" - which displays once more how you Muslims are so belligerent as to make false and unfounded accusations. There's no reason to make such false accusations if you have no clue as to the real message of the Bible, which you haven't carefully checked out for yourself,

It was not Paul's idea, nor was it the teaching of Jesus Christ, that such men should do those profane things. As a matter of FACT, Paul's teaching was that such indecencies will be punished according to God's righteousness and holiness (Romans 1:8 and Ephesians 5:3); and the Lord Jesus Christ also warned against such matters (Luke 13:3 & 5). As regarding such things, Paul unequivocally declared: "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness" (1 Thes. 4:7).

Romans 1:8
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness"

Ephesians 5:3
"But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness,
let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints"

Did you say "it was all Paul's idea" that such men should be engaged in the indecency you posted up there? Please, exercise a bit more honesty when you bring such alarmist and frantic claims to the Forum, because pilgrim.1 takes no nonsense from anybody - and I'll definitely not spare you if such kinds of dubious claims keep coming from you.

2. On the other hand, Muslims have deliberately sought to provoke and aggitate warfare between themselves and non-Muslims. They are not doing this out of their own misunderstandings on the issues of life. Rather, those who instigate such belligerence are following the spirit of Muhammad to the letter. You may not believe me, no worries. But as many times as any Muslim dares to deny the obvious, so many times indeed would pilgrim.1 update them on the embarrasing FACTS.

We continue to see hundreds of Muslims killing non-Muslims as in the following few examples:

~in northern Nigeria;

~ Muslim murders in Pakistan;

~ the typical Muslim response to cartoons;

~ Muslims attacking Muslims in Mail

~ clashes between Shia and Sunni Muslims in Pakistan

Of course, there are scores more. But I chose the milder ones to reflect on the point that without the so-called handling aggitation you reported, Muslims will still be at war - both between themselves and against non-Muslims!


Dear Olabowale, if you have any substance to your frantic reactions, please let us read them in well-reasoned presentations. Fallacious accusations against Paul or any other person does not interest me in the least - and if you've got nothing more mature that tends towards FACTS, please help us save the decency of the discussions we've been having so far with other discussants.

Regards.

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrims 1

Can you supply any verse to back you claim up that the above referred to Jesus. If you are thinking that the verses refers to Jesus because it mentioned wonderful, you can as well believe all prophets of God have been wonderful people. Acribing that word to Jesus alone will look like playing the game of dishonesty.

It will not "look like" dishonesty - because I asked you to proffer alternative answers to your denials that it was reffering to Jesus Christ and you have obviously refused to yield any answers to that request. If all you can do is make DENIALS upon DENIALS, you're simply playing a game that has no scruples. I'm waiting for your alternative answers to whom exactly those verses were referring to; and when you provide an honest response, then I'll walk you through the porphetic declarations of the Bible on that.

babs787:

Please where did it refer to the Messiah? I need solid proof please.

As soon as you refrain from your denials and then provide reasoned and honest answers, you'll read my counters.

babs787:

Hope the above is self explanatory. He made mention of the miracle therein. I thought I supplied you the splitting of the moon, the night journey etc, his prophecies and so on.

Comon babs. . . we've been through this before!!    How many times you wan play your shakara?

(a) Allah did NOT anywhere in his Qur'an claim that Muhammad performed any miracles - NONE at all!! If Muhammad performed any such miracles, Allah would have inspired it to be written in the Qur'an - afterall, some of the miracles of Jesus are recored in the Qur'an, not so? So why would Muhammad's miracles wait to be written in a collection of hadiths that Muslims have endlessly DENIED are genuine? You guys deny the Sahih Hadiths anytime the grey areas of Muhammad are mentioned; but you're quick to apply your gear to the sweet duplicity of things you like to claim that are nowhere taught in the Qur'an!!

(b) Not only did Allah never claim that Muhammad performed any miracles, even then Allah also categorically discreditted such a claim!! If any Muslim is bringing those dubious claims to the table, they would first have to be ready to defend who's telling the truth - Allah in the Qur'an; or Muslims with their own dubious claims contrary to the Qur'an?!?

(c) Since Allah never made any claims of Muhammad having performed any miracles - and he even went one step further to discredit and disavow it - WHAT is the grounds for you guys to come up whipping all sorts of stories OUTSIDE Allah's claims in the Qur'an?

Babs and all Muslim apologists on the Forum - we are filled full to the brim with being entertained by all sorts of inconsistencies and post-shifting!! You cannot be jumping between two rivers - so don't come on the Forum to give pilgrim.1 your crappola, because I knew exactly how you operate! If you can't rest your hearts and refrain from your inconsistencies (just being mild here instead of saying "dubious", then bring more and let's take you to the cleaners.

Cheers.

Pilgrim,

how has your day bing so far?

babs787 has piped down. He has discovered that Mohammad is nothing but a white man who died his hair red and took more (22) than the number of wives (4) he ordered them to officially take. He has also seen that Mohammad is grossly inferior to Jesus and that they have been told that if they require clarifications, they should come to us Christains to prove their quran. Mohammad could not justify his call by giving four very different and irreconciliable accounts of his call, whether it was allah that came down in form of a man, or it was angel gabriel, or plenty angels or the holy spirit? The differentiation is tougher than the one we have in mathematical calculus.

Babs787 has also seen that it will not be safe for him to dwell on hadiths if he wants to retain the sanity of his prophet due to the absurd things the hadiths say about him like drinking camel's urine, the fly in their cup, satan in their nose, and others. On that basis they have to invalidate the hadiths. But they are caught in between their very own snars if they try to re-build Mohammad's spirituality espcially his prforming the miracles because they would need to fall back on the hadiths to fetch some moon cutting or water gushing, or night journey miracles.

They are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea; a dilema. Where can they run to now?

cgift:

They are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea; a dilema. Where can they run to now?

the saving arms of Jesus are still wide open. babs you don hear.

@cgift. . 

cgift:

Pilgrim,

how has your day bing so far?

My dear bros, my day was quite pleasant - sun was strong and gave beautiful golden rays, we had our classes, my results for a previous exams reached me today - and pilgrim.1 passed with flying colours!! All the glory to God O!

As He did it for me, I am still praying for many on my prayer list that He will do more for them in Jesus' Name!

cgift:

babs787 has piped down. He has discovered that Mohammad is nothing but a white man who died his hair red and took more (22) than the number of wives (4) he ordered them to officially take. He has also seen that Mohammad is grossly inferior to Jesus and that they have been told that if they require clarifications, they should come to us Christains to prove their quran. Mohammad could not justify his call by giving four very different and irreconciliable accounts of his call, whether it was allah that came down in form of a man, or it was angel gabriel, or plenty angels or the holy spirit? The differentiation is tougher than the one we have in mathematical calculus.

Lol. . . I don tell babs787 before: make e tie im wrapper well-well and come with clean shoes when debating issues. E no dey hear word until situation go meet am where e no expect!

cgift:

Babs787 has also seen that it will not be safe for him to dwell on hadiths if he wants to retain the sanity of his prophet due to the absurd things the hadiths say about him like drinking camel's urine, the fly in their cup, satan in their nose, and others. On that basis they have to invalidate the hadiths. But they are caught in between their very own snars if they try to re-build Mohammad's spirituality espcially his prforming the miracles because they would need to fall back on the hadiths to fetch some moon cutting or water gushing, or night journey miracles.

I'm just waiting for people like uncle Olabowale wey still dey make shakara!! Shey e say Muhammad perform miracles, abi? No worries - he go sidon for cooler soon!

cgift:

They are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea; a dilema. Where can they run to now?

Hehe. . .    Them no go escape this time! The game is over and there's no extra or injury time!!

But as dear davidylan eruditely says:

davidylan:

the saving arms of Jesus are still wide open. babs you don hear.

I hope he reconsiders the materials he's plagiarizinga and carefully seek the truth. Muslim apologists have lied to the Muslim ummah until they can't even discern anything anymore.

pilgrim.1:

@cgift. .

My dear bros, my day was quite pleasant - sun was strong and gave beautiful golden rays, we had our classes, my results for a previous exams reached me today - and pilgrim.1 passed with flying colours!! All the glory to God O!

As He did it for me, I am still praying for many on my prayer list that He will do more for them in Jesus' Name!

I am happy for you my sis. Congrats! This thing (brain) no be by force, God just give you flenty flenty How we go wash am?