Ubenedictus: this is the worst thing i have ever heard, you are saying Jesus is and arch ange[/b]l, where did you hear that! Which bible says so?

The Bible contains five references to the mighty spirit creature Michael. Three occurrences are in the book of Daniel.

At Daniel 10:13, 21, we read that a dispatched angel is rescued by Michael, who is called "one of the foremost princes" and "the prince of you people."

At Daniel 12:1, we learn that in the time of the end, "Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people."

A further mention of Michael occurs at Revelation 12:7-9, which describes "Michael and his angels" as fighting a vital war that results in the ousting of Satan the Devil and his wicked angels from heaven. [b]No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God's enemies.

Notice that in each of the above-mentioned cases, Michael is portrayed as a warrior angel battling for and protecting God's people, even confronting Jehovah's greatest enemy, Satan.

Jude verse 9 calls Michael "the archangel." The prefix "arch" means "principal" or "chief," and the word "archangel" is never used in the plural form in the Bible.

The only other verse in which an archangel is mentioned is at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Paul describes the resurrected Jesus, saying: "The Lord (Jesus) himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet." So Jesus Christ himself is here identified as the archangel, or chief angel.

Both names—Michael (meaning "Who Is Like God?" and Jesus (meaning "Yahweh Is Salvation"—focus attention on his role as the leading advocate of God's sovereignty. Philippians 2:9 states: "God exalted him (the glorified Jesus) to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name."

Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ.(Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: "He is at God's right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."—1 Peter 3:22.

Freksy:


The Bible contains five references to the mighty spirit creature Michael. Three occurrences are in the book of Daniel.

At Daniel 10:13, 21, we read that a dispatched angel is rescued by Michael, who is called "one of the foremost princes" and "the prince of you people."

At Daniel 12:1, we learn that in the time of the end, "Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people."

A further mention of Michael occurs at Revelation 12:7-9, which describes "Michael and his angels" as fighting a vital war that results in the ousting of Satan the Devil and his wicked angels from heaven. No other angel is portrayed as having such great power and authority over God's enemies.

Notice that in each of the above-mentioned cases, Michael is portrayed as a warrior angel battling for and protecting God's people, even confronting Jehovah's greatest enemy, Satan.

Jude verse 9 calls Michael "the archangel." The prefix "arch" means "principal" or "chief," and the word "archangel" is never used in the plural form in the Bible.

The only other verse in which an archangel is mentioned is at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Paul describes the resurrected Jesus, saying: "The Lord (Jesus) himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet." So Jesus Christ himself is here identified as the archangel, or chief angel.

Both names—Michael (meaning "Who Is Like God?" and Jesus (meaning "Yahweh Is Salvation"—focus attention on his role as the leading advocate of God's sovereignty. Philippians 2:9 states: "God exalted him (the glorified Jesus) to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name."

Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ.(Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: "He is at God's right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."—1 Peter 3:22.

Additionally
If Jesus is not the same as the archangel or leader of the angel, it then means that there are two angels leading the holy angels in heaven(two captains in the same ship)

It will mean then that we have two set of holy angels.
One for Jesus and one for the archangel.

Pls. Let allow the bible to guide us and not bending the bible to suit trinity.(that Jesus is almighty and so can not be call an angel)

There is one set of angel in heaven, not two. All unitedly serving the Almighty Yahweh.
Not divide and rule.
Peace.

Ubenedictus:

easy here dear friend calvin was not a catholic, calvin was a protestant d founder of the reform theology that you follow yet he burned those he consider heretics, so i dont see d reason you are talking about d catholic church instead of d protestant reformed church.

I don't follow Calvin, I follow our Lord Jesus Christ. Can you tell me where Jesus said that we should burn those who preach heresy? If you couldn't why would you expect any true Christian to burn their fellow human beings the way the Roman Catholics did?

Ubenedictus:

d fada is speaking and he is speaking to jesus his son, jesus is called God and there are 2 different personalities in dat pasage

True. Our heavenly Father (the First Person in trinity) is here addressing His eternal Son (the Second Person in trinity), who is now the God/Man, that is, both God and Man. Similar conversations between these 2 Persons can be seen in Psalm 2:7-8 and Psalm 110:1-2 that I quoted earlier in this thread.

Ubenedictus:

this is the worst thing i have ever heard, you are saying Jesus is and arch angel, where did you hear that! Which bible says so?

This is what qualifies them as cults and false religions.

Freksy:

In what sense is Mary the "spouse" of the holy spirit? The scripture has never said so, can you please expatiate on it?

We are still expecting Ubenedictus to get back and tell us how Mary became the spouse of the Holy Spirit.

@Ubenedictus:

this is the worst thing i have ever heard, you are saying Jesus is and arch angel, where did you hear that! Which bible

The only other verse in which an archangel is mentioned is[size=14pt] at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Paul describes the resurrected Jesus, saying: "The Lord (Jesus) himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet."[/size] So Jesus Christ himself is here identified as the archangel, or chief angel.

A BIBLE VERSE HAS BEEN SUPPLIED HERE, TO JUSTIFY THE CLAIM,(note that the scripture supplied is a legitimate sacret scripture, and not the apocrypha that catholics added) NOW SUPPLY A COUTER PROOF TO DISQUALIFY THE PROOFS, WE ARE WAITING PLS

@OLAADEGBU,
This is what qualifies them as cults and false religions.

When has quoting points from the bible and not from the other book makes some one a cult? prove that pls from this particular context and not from sentiments.

BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus:

The only other verse in which an archangel is mentioned is[size=14pt] at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Paul describes the resurrected Jesus, saying: "The Lord (Jesus) himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet."[/size] So Jesus Christ himself is here identified as the archangel, or chief angel.

A BIBLE VERSE HAS BEEN SUPPLIED HERE, TO JUSTIFY THE CLAIM,(note that the scripture supplied is a legitimate sacret scripture, and not the apocrypha that catholics added) NOW SUPPLY A COUTER PROOF TO DISQUALIFY THE PROOFS, WE ARE WAITING PLS

@OLAADEGBU,
This is what qualifies them as cults and false religions.

When has quoting points from the bible and not from the other book makes some one a cult? prove that pls from this particular context and not from sentiments.

Twisting the Word of God as Satan did in the garden of Eden qualifies such as cults and false religions. This is what the Bible says:

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thess. 4:16)

If you read with an open mind you will discover that the text here is saying that Jesus is coming with a host of heaven. The 'shout' there is a military command and who do you think is the angel in charge of military assault in the heavenlies? It is probably Michael, who is an arch angel and it is not only Michael that will be coming with our Lord Jesus Christ but with a great host of heaven. So it is not our Lord Jesus Christ who will blow the trumpet and shout the military command, He will be comming with the host of heaven and the saints dead and alive will join them in the skies consecutively. Read Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7-9 for further referencing.

@OLAADEGBU

Twisting the Word of God as Satan did in the garden of Eden qualifies such as cults and false religions.

easy easy brother, nothing here suggests a twist like that of eden, let me expose sentiments here,

in garden of eden God says if the couple eat the forbiden fruit they will die, while satan did actually said they will not die but will be like God, so satan accused God of lying, but in this case legitimate bible verses were quoted and nothing outside the bible was added to butress points on this issue,but calling a dog with a bad name just to hang it is childish to me, maybe you can still go through this legitimate clarification to your response;

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thess. 4:16)

you dismiss above verses but then you can see that 'there was actually one character' here with a shout,and voice of the archangel'


but then, which bible verses do you support with your assertions below;

The 'shout' there is a military command and who do you think is the angel in charge of military assault in the heavenlies? It is probably Michael, who is an arch angel and it is not only Michael that will be coming with our Lord Jesus Christ but with a great host of heaven. So it is not our Lord Jesus Christ who will blow the trumpet and shout the military command

now you can see that even what you claim to be correcting someone,you are doing worse.jude 9 does not add any substance to your claim,in fact i will not go far,but from the same chapter 9 of jude, read verse 4;

Jude 1:4-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny [size=14pt]the only Lord[/size] God[a] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “[size=14pt]The Lord [/size]rebuke you!”

'the lord' rendered in both verses 4 and 9 using small letters for both lords shows that it is reffering to God almighty and in verse 9 shows that micheal is reffering to 'the lord' to rebuke devil.see the use of small letters in verse 4 again.these are caused by translations of the bible from greek and hebrews to english language.

while revelation 12:7-9 too does not help your points,because of your assertions that;

So it is not our Lord Jesus Christ who will blow the trumpet and shout the military command

then whats jesus participation in the war when;

rev 12 :10,11.
verse 10;
'[size=14pt]and the power of his Christ[/size]'
verse 11;
'[size=14pt]they overcame him by the blood of the Lam[/size]b',

compare with;

Daniel 10:13,21.

13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. [size=14pt](No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.[/size]


but then there are other strong verses that the post relied on to solidify these fact that jesus is actually the archangel Micheal

how?

Psalm 110:1
King James Version (KJV)
[img]110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.[/img]

now see where the lord was actally reffered to as angels

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”[b]
[size=14pt]13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
[/size]
so you can provide alternative coment.

BARRISTERS: @OLAADEGBU

but then there are other strong verses that the post relied on to solidify these fact that jesus is actually the archangel Micheal

how?

Psalm 110:1
King James Version (KJV)
[img]110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.[/img]

now see where the lord was actally reffered to as angels

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]
10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”[b]
[size=14pt]13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
[/size]
so you can provide alternative coment.

I'll address your last point because what you posted earlier doesn't make any sense to me.

David was here referring to what the Father said to the eternal Son and it also proves that He was not referring to angels. How do you read? Are we to worship angels? If not why then did God the Father command all the angels to worship the Son?

Talking about the incarnation of His Son:

"Being made so much better than the angels as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:4-6).

Depending on how you read or have been taught to read we see that the Son by His eternal deity is acknowledged as "Being" but in His perfect humanity, He was "Being made so much better than the angels" The Son created all the angels (Colossians 1:15-16) but when He became man, He was made "a little lower than the angels" for the purpose of dying for our sins.

You can also see in verse 6 that God commanded all angels to worship the Son. If Jesus Christ was an arch angel like Michael it would be an abomination to worship angels. Jesus accepts worship which no man or angel are entitled to.

OLAADEGBU:

Twisting the Word of God as Satan did in the garden of Eden qualifies such as cults and false religions. This is what the Bible says:

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thess. 4:16)

If you read with an open mind you will discover that the text here is saying that Jesus is coming with a host of heaven. The 'shout' there is a military command and who do you think is the angel in charge of military assault in the heavenlies? It is probably Michael, who is an arch angel and it is not only Michael that will be coming with our Lord Jesus Christ but with a great host of heaven. So it is not our Lord Jesus Christ who will blow the trumpet and shout the military command, He will be comming with the host of heaven and the saints dead and alive will join them in the skies consecutively. Read Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7-9 for further referencing.

@olaadegbu
Bro.

Can we read Revelation 19:11 to 16.

Vas 11 says that this person makes war. So we know that this person is a person of war.

But who is this person?

Vas 13 calls him the "word", who is call the word according to john 1:1? = Jesus.

Vas 16 also call this man of war "king of kings and lord of lords", who is this man of war called kings of kings then? = Jesus.

So we can see that the person carrying on war here Jesus with his angels, and michael the archangel also carry on "WAR" with his angels.

Who do u thing this two persons are that are identified as "war" persons? Cant u see that they are the same person?

Are God holy angels divided into two camps with two captains? No.
Both of them are the same persons.
Peace

OLAADEGBU:

Twisting the Word of God as Satan did in the garden of Eden qualifies such as cults and false religions. This is what the Bible says:

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thess. 4:16)

If you read with an open mind you will discover that the text here is saying that Jesus is coming with a host of heaven. The 'shout' there is a military command and who do you think is the angel in charge of military assault in the heavenlies? It is probably Michael, who is an arch angel and it is not only Michael that will be coming with our Lord Jesus Christ but with a great host of heaven. So it is not our Lord Jesus Christ who will blow the trumpet and shout the military command, He will be comming with the host of heaven and the saints dead and alive will join them in the skies consecutively. Read Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7-9 for further referencing.

@olaadegbu
Bro.

Can we read Revelation 19:11 to 16.

Vas 11 says that this person makes war. So we know that this person is a person of war.

But who is this person?

Vas 13 calls him the "word", who is call the word according to john 1:1? = Jesus.

Vas 16 also call this man of war "king of kings and lord of lords", who is this man of war called kings of kings than? = Jesus.

So we can see that the person carrying on war here Jesus with his angels, and michael the archangel also carry on "WAR" with his angels.

Who do u thing this two persons are that are identified as "war" persons? Cant u see that they are the same person?

Are God holy angels divided into two camps with two captains? No.
Both of them are the same persons.
Peace

Oops

BARRISTERS: @OLAADEGBU

easy easy brother, nothing here suggests a twist like that of eden, let me expose sentiments here,

in garden of eden God says if the couple eat the forbiden fruit they will die, while satan did actually said they will not die but will be like God, so satan accused God of lying, but in this case legitimate bible verses were quoted and nothing outside the bible was added to butress points on this issue,but calling a dog with a bad name just to hang it is childish to me, maybe you can still go through this legitimate clarification to your response;

you dismiss above verses but then you can see that 'there was actually one character' here with a shout,and voice of the archangel'


but then, which bible verses do you support with your assertions below;


now you can see that even what you claim to be correcting someone,you are doing worse.jude 9 does not add any substance to your claim,in fact i will not go far,but from the same chapter 9 of jude, read verse 4;

Jude 1:4-9
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny [size=14pt]the only Lord[/size] God[a] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “[size=14pt]The Lord [/size]rebuke you!”

'the lord' rendered in both verses 4 and 9 using small letters for both lords shows that it is reffering to God almighty and in verse 9 shows that micheal is reffering to 'the lord' to rebuke devil.see the use of small letters in verse 4 again.these are caused by translations of the bible from greek and hebrews to english language.

while revelation 12:7-9 too does not help your points,because of your assertions that;


then whats jesus participation in the war when;

rev 12 :10,11.
verse 10;
'[size=14pt]and the power of his Christ[/size]'
verse 11;
'[size=14pt]they overcame him by the blood of the Lam[/size]b',

compare with;

Daniel 10:13,21.

13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.

21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. [size=14pt](No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.[/size]

Let me try and address your ridiculous claim that Jesus Christ is the arch angel Michael.

What does the Bible say?

In the book of Daniel.12:1 We see that Michael is the great prince but not in Dan.10:13 he is said to be one of the chief princes that came to help out. If you read Daniel8:25 you will discover that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Prince of princes who will destroy the antichrist. We see that Jesus is clearly distinguished from Michael the arch angel. Our Lord Jesus Christ who is the Prince of Peace is unique, but angel Michael is not.

In Jude 9 where we see the arch angel Michael calling for help from the Lord to rebuke satan, our Lord Jesus Christ rebuked satan and demons while in His humanity not to talk of Him Being in His Deity. He didn't need help from no one and demons fled from His presence and He has also given believers the authority to use His name and at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

@olaadegbu
Dont be confuse.
The book of Jude said he did not in "Abusive terms" while contesting with satan.
that is the diff.

Read the whole of Jude u will note that the context of that Jude was about respect.

Did u consider my post on Rev19?

truthislight:
@olaadegbu
Bro.

Can we read Revelation 19:11 to 16.

Vas 11 says that this person makes war. So we know that this person is a person of war.

But who is this person?

Vas 13 calls him the "word", who is call the word according to john 1:1? = Jesus.

Vas 16 also call this man of war "king of kings and lord of lords", who is this man of war called kings of kings than? = Jesus.

So we can see that the person carrying on war here Jesus with his angels, and michael the archangel also carry on "WAR" with his angels.

Who do u thing this two persons are that are identified as "war" persons? Cant u see that they are the same person?

Are God holy angels divided into two camps with two captains? No.
Both of them are the same persons.
Peace

My response to BARRISTERS has addressed your objections and if 'am to add to that I will continue from where I stopped in Hebrews. Hebrews 1:7-8 goes like this:

"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and eve; a sceptre of righteousness, is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This should show you beyond any doubt that our Lord Jesus Christ is not angel Michael. You can see God the Father here talking to angels in verse 7 but in verse 8 He is talking to His Son. If you read with an open mind you will see that the angels are on one side and the Son on the other. So which group of the audience does Jesus Christ fall in?

The angels were obviously created beings created as spirits but the Son has been forever and if you not that this prophecy in Psalm 2:7 was given thousands of years before the Son actually became man. Jesus Christ is the Son of God by inheritance, by human generation and resurrection, while the angels are only sons of God by special creation.

OLAADEGBU:

My response to BARRISTERS has addressed your objections and if 'am to add to that I will continue from where I stopped in Hebrews. Hebrews 1:7-8 goes like this:

"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and eve; a sceptre of righteousness, is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This should show you beyond any doubt that our Lord Jesus Christ is not angel Michael. You can see God the Father here talking to angels in verse 7 but in verse 8 He is talking to His Son. If you read with an open mind you will see that the angels are on one side and the Son on the other. So which group of the audience does Jesus Christ fall in?

The angels were obviously created beings created as spirits but the Son has been forever and if you not that this prophecy in Psalm 2:7 was given thousands of years before the Son actually became man. Jesus Christ is the Son of God by inheritance, by human generation and resurrection, while the angels are only sons of God by special creation.

U did not address the revelation 19 i pointed to u.
Can u show that Jesus christ is not the one mention there as the war person?

Are u saying that a president cannot be called the: COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARM FORCES?
That is what ARCHANGEL MEANS.

Guy just address that revelation and not just fly away.:

OLAADEGBU:

My response to BARRISTERS has addressed your objections and if 'am to add to that I will continue from where I stopped in Hebrews. Hebrews 1:7-8 goes like this:

"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and eve; a sceptre of righteousness, is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This should show you beyond any doubt that our Lord Jesus Christ is not angel Michael. You can see God the Father here talking to angels in verse 7 but in verse 8 He is talking to His Son. If you read with an open mind you will see that the angels are on one side and the Son on the other. So which group of the audience does Jesus Christ fall in?

The angels were obviously created beings created as spirits but the Son has been forever and if you not that this prophecy in Psalm 2:7 was given thousands of years before the Son actually became man. Jesus Christ is the Son of God by inheritance, by human generation and resurrection, while the angels are only sons of God by special creation.

from ur analogy it then means that there shuld bbe anoda angel that is as powerful as Jesus,entrusted with the job of defeating satan....right

angel micheal and his angels fought and defeated satan and his angels....

who else culd that angel be>>>


i know why it might be so hard for u guys to accept that Jesus might be micheal....

because of the trinity dogma...nothin more nothin less


but it mightsurprise u to knw that some trinitarians agree with the FACT that Jesus is micheal....

the errands micheal run and the power bestowed on micheal is exactly the same with that of JESUS...

who else was given the responsibility to crush satans head?? read genesis 3:15


even daniel calls Micheal the prince of isreal....

oboy abeg wvidence too borku to prove that Jesus is micheal....

but trinity dogma will never let u see it...

is it the ANGELattached to the micheal that is ur problem

for ur info Jesus was and is Yahwehs messenger..(Yahwehs slave/servant) Isaiah 53;10 and 12...
alsoo read acts 3:13

@OLAADEGBU

pls note below verses are from seperate individuals, in psalmm 110:1 and hebrews 1:13

Ps.110:1 "The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.


HEBREWS 1:13

[size=14pt]13 But to which of the angels [/size]has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?

the attribute of 'who sits on the right hand' is being connected to and angel, isnt that ridiculous to you? how could this be written in the bible? just wait,

Again
another attribute combining two strong qualities used to describe jesus and Micheal;
jesus is....'Prince and a Saviour' micheal is...'prince who protects your people' honestly see that below;

Acts 5:31
King James Version (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [size=14pt]to be a Prince and a Saviour[/size], for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Daniel 12:1
12 “At that time Michael, [size=14pt]the great prince who protects your people[/size], will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book —will be delivered

ok now, can you pls compare the following verses,(Daniel 12:1-3) and (john 5:27-29) who the common character was,

here we go;
[size=14pt]Daniel 12:1-3


12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book —will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.[/size]

[size=14pt]john 5:27-29

27, And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.[/size]

sentiments apart, after comparing above book of Daniel and john word for word, do you still think someone twists like you claimed?

thats why i said easy easy brother, you explain your view on that, thanks

@OLAADEGBU

PLS NOTE THAT DANIEL 12:1 'is paragraph containing a character who is a prince and who will deliver good people, ....not from war (note that is different from the war in rev 12:7-9), but tasked with identifying the good people that will go to life' but will an angel be given a task meant for his superior,if jesus was not micheal?

His Son's Name
July 27, 2012

"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell" (Proverbs 30:4).

The obvious answer to these rhetorical questions must centre in God, the Creator of all things. But the fascinating revelation in this Old Testament passage is that God has a Son and that both have names.

When Moses asked God His name, "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM . . . This is my name for ever" (Exodus 3:14-15). Later, Moses, in his song of deliverance said: "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name" (Exodus 15:3). The name Lord (Hebrew Jehovah or Yahweh) means, essentially, "I am, the self-existent one."

As far as His Son's name is concerned, it is revealed in Scripture in many ways. In the Old Testament prophecy, "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). How remarkable that a "Son is given" who is also named the mighty God and everlasting Father!

In His incarnation, the angel commanded Joseph, "Thou shalt call his name JESUS" ("Jehovah saves" ), but he also said, "They shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matthew 1:21, 23).

There are many other titles by which the Son of God is identified, but perhaps the most significant are noted in connection with His final return in triumph. "His name is called The Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), identifying Him as both eternal Creator and incarnate Saviour (John 1:1-3, 14). As our eternal King, "he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16). HMM

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU: His Son's Name
July 27, 2012

"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell" (Proverbs 30:4).

The obvious answer to these rhetorical questions must centre in God, the Creator of all things. But the fascinating revelation in this Old Testament passage is that God has a Son and that both have names.

When Moses asked God His name, "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM . . . This is my name for ever" (Exodus 3:14-15). Later, Moses, in his song of deliverance said: "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name" (Exodus 15:3). The name Lord (Hebrew Jehovah or Yahweh) means, essentially, "I am, the self-existent one."

As far as His Son's name is concerned, it is revealed in Scripture in many ways. In the Old Testament prophecy, "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). How remarkable that a "Son is given" who is also named the mighty God and everlasting Father!

In His incarnation, the angel commanded Joseph, "Thou shalt call his name JESUS" ("Jehovah saves" ), but he also said, "They shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matthew 1:21, 23).

There are many other titles by which the Son of God is identified, but perhaps the most significant are noted in connection with His final return in triumph. "His name is called The Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), identifying Him as both eternal Creator and incarnate Saviour (John 1:1-3, 14). As our eternal King, "he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16). HMM

For more . . . .

please is I AM THAT I AM somebody's name??


exodus 3:15 mentions the very name that does last forever.....

and u know that name....the tetragrammatonm(YAHWEH)....

moses didnt tell d isrealites that i am that i am sent him,moses mentioned Gods name (Yahweh to them).....

when did I AM THAT I AM become a name?

OLAADEGBU: His Son's Name
July 27, 2012

"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell" (Proverbs 30:4).

The obvious answer to these rhetorical questions must centre in God, the Creator of all things. But the fascinating revelation in this Old Testament passage is that God has a Son and that both have names.

When Moses asked God His name, "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM . . . This is my name for ever" (Exodus 3:14-15). Later, Moses, in his song of deliverance said: "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name" (Exodus 15:3). The name Lord (Hebrew Jehovah or Yahweh) means, essentially, "I am, the self-existent one."

As far as His Son's name is concerned, it is revealed in Scripture in many ways. In the Old Testament prophecy, "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). How remarkable that a "Son is given" who is also named the mighty God and everlasting Father!

In His incarnation, the angel commanded Joseph, "Thou shalt call his name JESUS" ("Jehovah saves" ), but he also said, "They shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matthew 1:21, 23).

There are many other titles by which the Son of God is identified, but perhaps the most significant are noted in connection with His final return in triumph. "His name is called The Word of God" (Revelation 19:13), identifying Him as both eternal Creator and incarnate Saviour (John 1:1-3, 14). As our eternal King, "he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS" (Revelation 19:16). HMM

For more . . . .

By this post u accept the fact that at Revelation 19:11 the personage mention there as a war person is Jesus christ in a war role coming to fight war, and in continuation of his subduing in the midst of is enemies. Coming with his angels.

Michael is said to be a person of war and also having angels.

That michael and Jesus christ are one and the same person.
Peace

ijawkid:



please is I AM THAT I AM somebody's name??


exodus 3:15 mentions the very name that does last forever.....

and u know that name....the tetragrammatonm(YAHWEH)....

moses didnt tell d isrealites that i am that i am sent him,moses mentioned Gods name (Yahweh to them).....

when did I AM THAT I AM become a name?

What does I AM mean?

truthislight:
By this post u accept the fact that at Revelation 19:11 the personage mention there as a war person is Jesus christ in a war role coming to fight war, and in continuation of his subduing in the midst of is enemies. Coming with his angels.

Michael is said to be a person of war and also having angels.

That michael and Jesus christ are one and the same person.
Peace

If you say that Jesus Christ is angel Michael are you then saying that it is right to worship angels?

OLAADEGBU:

What does I AM mean?

I AM means an individual under consideration,,,......

I AM is nt an expression limited to GOD..its not somebody's name.....

Remember God didn't want to disclose his name to moses and so he told him. To tell the isrealites that""I AM THAT I AM"" has sent him.....

But ofcus we know I AM THAT I AM isn't a name....that's why moses waited for the very name that lasts forever and Yahweh gave him that name to tell the isrealites.......

And that name is the tetregrammaton that was removed from many bibles....(YHWH)....

Yahweh disclosed his name in verse 15 of exodus chapter 3....

And that tetragrammaton is what appears over 7000 times in d hebrew scriptures......

If we want to tag the word ""I AM"" anytime we see it to mean GOds name then we'll run into some problems(contradictions will arise)....

Read that exodus 3:13-15 and pin point that name that will last forever......


It is also when some1 is asked his name for confirmation and then the person affirmatively answers ""I AM""....
Does that make the person Yahweh??

Let's say I'm interviewing u for a job and after checking up ur CV I now ask you:::
Are u OLAADEGBU?

Ofcus your answer will be ""I AM""...isn't it??


Your personal name is OLAADEGBU while your saying I AM only shows you are the individual under consideration and ur affirming that YOU are YOU not some1 else.........

That is why Jesus too could use the expression ""I AM""

Like he'll say I AM the d way,...that no one can come to the Father except d person passes through HIM.....

Jesus as we know is a seperate individual from Yahweh........

I AM used by Jesus shows he's talking about himself and the part he plays in reconciling us to the Father(His Father)........

@OLAADEGBU,

True christians dont worship Angels, but they direct their worship to God,even an Angel instruct john who bows for him to 'worship God' by rejecting worship,so worship must be directed only to God, thats why christ is called 'the mediator'

Mediator refer to:

A neutral party who assists in negotiations and conflict resolution, the process being known as mediation

read the bible verse that 'killed the notion' of jesus-man or man-jesus below reffering to God as 'one'.
Galatians 3:19-23

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and[b] it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.[/b] 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only,[size=18pt] but God is one[/size].

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.

@OLAADEGBU
The emphasis is here in verse 20;
[size=18pt]20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one[/size].

God is here being Distinguished apart from the 'mediator' in one sentence.... but God is one.

OLAADEGBU:

If you say that Jesus Christ is angel Michael are you then saying that it is right to worship angels?

Good question.
If we follow what Jesus christ taught like in matthew 6:9,10
The model prayer, here Jesus said we should pray:
"our father, who act in heaven, hallow be thy name"
Here Jesus clearly shows whose name we are to hallow. Meaning that we should worship or render sacred the father's name, and whatever we want we should ask the father but through his name(Jesus christ)

they are two distick individual.

We worship the father almighty God through the son Jesus.

This position that jesus occupy is very large since there is no direct access to the Father except through the son Jesus christ, the mediator.

People can only have problem and miss things up if they accept the Trinity doctrine.
Trinitarian will not accept the truth that Jesus is the same as angel michael since the trinity doctrine says Jesus is almight God or Jehovah.
Peace

after all the videos of trinity is explained scientifically and explained with reason, each of the camps of christianity will say it is a misery when it comes to their God the Father, their God the son and their God the holy spirit being each fully individual God of his or its own, but all of them being one God at all times.

one wonders how each is fully God and only One The Father controls the other two, commanding them and they can never disobey Him and they never get to command Him? one wonders how 1 can actually be sitting next to another and yet it is only One God on seat? one wonders how 1 God sits at the right side of another God and neither of them is sitting on the left side of a God?

one wonders why a fully God is called son when son not always in authority especially when the father is in authority, even among human being? can the nature of human being in a family be more realistic can the nature of the christian God of Yahweh the father, Jesus the son and Holy Ghost the spirit? one wonders when God died according to the christians, why was Yahweh still able to control everything as if nothing changed? what need was the dead God even be alive if he was the Creator but can not prevent harms coming upon him from a tribe of creatures, considering that Angel Gabriel coul not be killed by humans, the whole human race?

one wonders if such a dead God really God in the first place whereas the reason the christians give for his death is [absorb the sins of man, maybe the original sin they attributed to Adam and Eve and or the sins committed by individual in a lifetime], different from what the jews give and neither is correct because he was not killed but saved by his God who he was a messenger of His Message? It is reasonable to say that if Jesus was God and he died, who will believe such a God when angels can not be killed? if Jesus was prophet, it is for sure plausible that God will prevent him from dieing in the hands of his enemies, especially when he prayed for it, just like Jonah who begged God even right from the belly of the whale that swallowed him.

we can look at many aspects of the idea that Jesus was God and find it to be a lie, while we can look at the aspects that Jesus was a prophet of God, the reasons he was able to perform miracles to support his prophet-hood and the reason one can say for sure that God would have accepted his prayers to save his life for dying in the hand of his enemies who were also enemies of God Who sent him. Even the christians say he was raised by God which indicates that Jesus was not powerful to do it on his own.

Sweetnecta: after all the videos of trinity is explained scientifically and explained with reason, each of the camps of christianity will say it is a misery when it comes to their God the Father, their God the son and their God the holy spirit being each fully individual God of his or its own, but all of them being one God at all times.

one wonders how each is fully God and only One The Father controls the other two, commanding them and they can never disobey Him and they never get to command Him? one wonders how 1 can actually be sitting next to another and yet it is only One God on seat? one wonders how 1 God sits at the right side of another God and neither of them is sitting on the left side of a God?

one wonders why a fully God is called son when son not always in authority especially when the father is in authority, even among human being? can the nature of human being in a family be more realistic can the nature of the christian God of Yahweh the father, Jesus the son and Holy Ghost the spirit? one wonders when God died according to the christians, why was Yahweh still able to control everything as if nothing changed? what need was the dead God even be alive if he was the Creator but can not prevent harms coming upon him from a tribe of creatures, considering that Angel Gabriel coul not be killed by humans, the whole human race?

one wonders if such a dead God really God in the first place whereas the reason the christians give for his death is [absorb the sins of man, maybe the original sin they attributed to Adam and Eve and or the sins committed by individual in a lifetime], different from what the jews give and neither is correct because he was not killed but saved by his God who he was a messenger of His Message? It is reasonable to say that if Jesus was God and he died, who will believe such a God when angels can not be killed? if Jesus was prophet, it is for sure plausible that God will prevent him from dieing in the hands of his enemies, especially when he prayed for it, just like Jonah who begged God even right from the belly of the whale that swallowed him.

we can look at many aspects of the idea that Jesus was God and find it to be a lie, while we can look at the aspects that Jesus was a prophet of God, the reasons he was able to perform miracles to support his prophet-hood and the reason one can say for sure that God would have accepted his prayers to save his life for dying in the hand of his enemies who were also enemies of God Who sent him. Even the christians say he was raised by God which indicates that Jesus was not powerful to do it on his own.

The blind cannot see, ask them.

But when the sight of a blind man is restored he begins to appreciate the light.

Same thing, you cannot know that something exists when you are in a pitch dark room, but when the light is turned on , you appreciate that it does indeed exist.

Summary is , the mind of man is alienated from the life of God and except the light of God shines on such a heart , the understanding will remain perpetually darkened.