muslims at it again, wonders shall never cease

yusuf01:

This will be my last post as regards this
But are you talking about someone he met when he was less than 10 years, the meeting which didn't last a day? He was able to cram 114 chapters in a meeting that didn't last a day? He was able to predict the future (surat Rum) just by this meeting with the so-called jew? And to make you argument a whole lot interesting, this meeting happened before he was 10,  Like Allah said in one of His verses, nothing will make you guys believe, you will continue to ask questions, you will continue to wander, still looking for excuses. Reason; Allah guides whom he wills, and for those that are misled, will be wandering until death comes. Just like the jews refused Jesus, the christians refused Mohammed.
The Qu'ran was compiled during the caliphate of Uthman Bin Affan (the 3rd Calliph), a result of what you have pointed out; 1, there were beginning to have new versions, due to the change in tongues and meanings. Just like an Ibadan guy will speak a different yoruba compared to a lagosian, different meanings were being given to it. And 2, just like you said, the sahabas who memorised the full Qur'anic texts were being murdered. The same arguments were presented to Uthman, and was advised to compile the full texts in a book so as to be a reference. Then, the copy present in Umm Samamah (one of the wives of the prophet) was the one used for compilation - the full meanings and tongue preserved. The other versions burnt and the compiled one distributed around, the same one we have today. Have you asked yourself; why is it that when you check 90 percent of the arabic Qur'an, on each page you find the same word, the same letter, throughout for the complete 114 chapters? Reason; to preserve the meanings, so that we won't have adulterated versions. BTW, the other 10 percent are different just for compression; to reduce them to pocket sized versions. Do you think when Allah was joking when He said He was the one that will protect the Qur'an? These are the methods of preservation, the same way we recite the Qur'an anytime we pray so that we continue to memorise it, someone can't recite Sura Fatiha another way, nobody will pray under such person. These are preservation methods. The Qur'an is the last revelation, and Allah has made it a duty upon Himself to protect it, it's not written by the companions - the way the Bible was written by companions, the Pauls, the Banabas, , NO. The Qur'an was revealed during the life of the last prophet, and revelations stopped after he died!

The mistake that early Christians made was to not have committee create a single,  consistent version of the events of life of Jesus,  and a big part of that was due to the fact that they didn't have strong rulers who could force the issue in the early days.   Early Islam had the benefit of unified leadership and a determination to develop a single book out of several versions (7 I believe).   Speaking as someone who is convinced that all religion is man-made and that there is no such thing as a prophet,  sons of god, or holy books,      I wouldn't say the Qur'an is entirely consistent,  but it is more consistent than the Bible because of the way it was assembled.  But as anyone knows,  consistency does not mean correct.

In my humble opinion religion should be one sentence:  do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.

Even if jesus came down today to turn these so misled xtians to the right path, they would still not believe. If u re destined to fail, fail you must ;if u re destined to go astray, astray u must go and if u re destined for hell, then hell u must go, as all xtians surely will.

tiarabubu:

@lagoshia
just as with the course of writing the Hadith where great effort went into shifting through accounts of the faithful, many felt the "need" or zealousness to formulate additional religious text to fit their thinking on how the gospel should be. It was critical that the religious text were preserved as they truly are and early Church fathers guarded against that. Paul warned of it several times in his letters to fledgling churches of his days.

comparing the bible to hadith does not give the case of the bible any credence.

muslims do not accept the hadiths compilations or books to be 100% authentic.the hadiths are meant to be narrations heard from the Prophet (sa).muslims do not claim that all that the Prophet (sa) ever spoke was written.in other words,the hadiths contains details that were recorded.moreover,not all that was recorded is even accepted as authentic or the true words of the Prophet (sa).

the muslims have the Quran as the yardstick to judge any individual hadith.if for instance a hadith contradicts the Quran,we know that the hadith is wrong and could never have been the words of the Prophet (sa).to the muslim the Quran alone stands 100% authentic and acceptable without any doubt.

therefore the Quran and not the hadith books is the word of God.now when we look at the christian like yourself comparing the bible to hadith compilations,i really ask myself:do i have anymore to say to you that your bible is fallible? the case is closed!!!

as for those talking about the bible being put together, for the sake of understanding even the Koran went through some collation under the caliphs, some parts were lost as a result of men who memorized them dying in battles and there are several versions with differences in the middle east. some processes were initiated to try to get the Koran as original as possible. Whether they succeeded is a debate for another day.

What the 3rd sunni caliph (not caliphs) did was to create more copies of the Quran from the original written in patches of palm date and animal bones and the like of available materials.what actually prompted the 3rd sunni caliph to do that was two things:
1.) The appearance of verses in distant lands newly conquered where the wordings of the Quran are either distorted or changed because of language and pronunciation.
2.) The fear that the companions of memorized and wrote the Quran when its verses were revealed in the days of Muhammad (sa) were dying and only a few remained.now you have converted that to mean that verses were lost when those men who memorized the Quran died.that is dishonest.
You narration of lies trying to cast doubt on the Quran is not impressive in fact but only in words.there were no versions in the middle east.compiling an entire book in those days was not a child’s play nor were there printing presses that could easily have done that.it took the caliph to bring together the written records from Muhammad’s (sa) time and also the companions who witnesses the revelation,writing and memorization of the Quran.it goes to point that there were written records,and also there were men who witnessed the revelation and preservation of the Quran.

Christians know who was to come after Christ. Apart from the xteristic of the comforter as listed by Jesus himself, the lifestyle,  personality, message, style and actions of both are poles apart and its implausible that Jesus meant that Prophet Muhammad was the comforter.

Inspite of a record found newly in Turkey which predates the birth of Muhammad (sa) himself,you will even deny Muhammad (sa) was prophesied by Jesus (as) even if Jesus (as) himself speaks to you.

The comforter in the bible cannot be the “holy spirit”.even if for argument sake I accept it is not Muhammad (sa) because of bias/prejudice,then you can only honestly accept it was not the holy spirit either.Jesus (as) said it was expedient for him to go or else the comforter would not come.examining the bible,we see that all along from Genesis (before Jesus),up to the days of Jesus the “holy spirit” was there.so therefore this comforter who will come only after Jesus is gone has to be someone other than the holy spirit.going by the use of pronouns for the comforter,we can only say the comforter has to be a man.then comparing what the comforter would do upon his coming,we must admit it was Muhammad (sa)!!!

Additionally,other prophecies in the new testament only further tell us that the comforter has to be an Arabian man.you can see this:

The New Islamic Nation In Undeniable Bible Prophecies

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.0.html

Some Muslims have used the root letters and sounds in the Christian texts common to that of Muhammad's name to justify him being mentioned even though the meaning are completely different (for want of time I will not go to details now). Not one is convincing. It will be something similar they will look out for.

The case in the newly discovered text which is said to be a 1500 years old gospel of barnabas in turkey is a different case from the word “MUHAMMADIM” found in the songs of Solomon.you can speculate and argue that the songs of Solomon is not about Muhammad (sa) even though the word “MUHAMMADIM” is found there.but in the gospel of barnabas,we find a prophecy of a man to come.this isn’t a case of poetry and sound as is the case with the songs of Solomon.

Then of course the conspiracy theories of Christians wanting to do this and that to aid the propagation of their religion. Its a worn out path for apologists that one will not dignify with a response.

and finally, why the desperation to validate prophet Muhammad through Christian texts? The obsession is beyond me, honestly. He needs no mention in Christian text for his message to shine through. I don't see this obsession from other religions.

It is the same obsession with Christians going through jewish texts to find something about Jesus (as).christians interpret a 1001 prophecies relating it to Jesus (as).yet the jews who own those texts have different interpretations.of note though is the fact that the jews never expected a messiah to come to be a demi-god or someone to be divine as Christians have made Jesus (as).

Lets see what this Gospel of Barnabas has to offer even though we know from Paul's writing  the strong relationship between himself and Barnabas; both men have not contradicted themselves.

It is the greatest misfortune for any Christian to mention Paul to validate the claims or person of any disciple of even Jesus himself.Paul had disputes with the disciples of Jesus.they were in disagreement.

Please see these:

“Paul Versus The Disciples”:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-846385.0.html

“Paul Vs. Jesus's Teachings: Is There A Conflict? For serious bible scholars”:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-859735.0.html#msg10096122

“Bible Verses Of How Paul Contradicted Jesus (as)”
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820209.0.html

all gospels written during the apostolic era either on scrolls or papyrus were in black ink. even the gnostics gospels written well over 100yrs afta jesus was done in black. muslims had better face their doctrine and tenets and stop telling xtians dat their teaching is wrong. the world is so big enough to accomodate the two religions(or more) peacefully without any rancour. Both Jesus and Mohd(pbuh) are established forerunners of religious movements dat has stand the test of time

LagosShia:


Inspite of a record found newly in Turkey which predates the birth of Muhammad (sa) himself,you will even deny Muhammad (sa) was prophesied by Jesus (as) even if Jesus (as) himself speaks to you.

This has not been scientifically proven in any way.   They need to test the age of the material and examine the writing both to style and content.   I believe the book will be shown to be false.  Other,  existing books of Barnabas have shown that they incorporate things unknown to people in the time of Jesus.  And there are actually different versions of Barnabas which say very different things.

I have studied religion for a long time and I am completely convinced that all religion is man-made,  so ultimately to me any religious argument won't amount to anything.  However,  I do think it is very important to examine documents to find their origins so that history may be better understood.

@eGuerrilla

if u want to post sometin ease not abt My Jesus ok, Jesus never practice religion during his ministry, you hear so

Even if you like go and bring a writing by apostle peter repudiating Jesus. One thing I know is that there is no life in Islamic religion. As a christian i lived in an Islamic country for three years and all i can see is darkness of the souls there.

why i so much believe in Jehovah the holy one of Israel, the  God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is because of this people and country they call the Jews and Israel. In the old testament God told the children of Israel that because of their sin he will scatter them abroad across the nations of the earth, but that latter he will bring them back. for more than two thousand years the Jews were scattered all over the world, when the Roman empire leveled the temple of Solomon and desolated Jerusalem. Even when they were dispersed across the world, anywhere they were they so much prospered very well, that was one of the reasons why Adolf Hitler was so envious of the Jews success in Europe and he initiated the holocaust. It was also seen how Nazis Germany confiscated art works and jewelries of Jews in Europe valued at trillions. But God brought his people Israel back in 1948 to establish the country of Israel. there is something special about the Jews, they control a large portion of the wealth in the world today, and many other things because of Gods blessings following as a result of Abraham the friend of God.


why i and many Christians  believe that Jesus is the son of God because is because it is a personal spiritual experience for us, we have experienced his love ( because love is the foundation of Christianity). For greater love has no man than this that a man will lay down his life for his friend. It is that love of Jesus that he laid down his life that we through his death will get life eternal. In the old testament when the children of Israel were in Egypt, God instructed Moses that he will take a young male calf and kill it and press the blood on the door pane, so that when the angel of death passed through Egypt he will spare those who the blood was on their window pane. Likewise today God sent his only son Jesus to earth, who was crucified and died and as many as receive him and  accept his dying for them to carry away their sin they will have eternal life. For no other name is given under heaven which man can be saved only the name of Jesus.

but I am sorry  for those that will reject him because by the time they close their in death it will be too late for them. there have been witnessed cases of those who died and came back to life and seen the terror that awaits those who reject God and his son.


I want to address my Muslim friends,like i told you I lived in a Muslim country for three years, i have many Muslim friends up till today Arabs, Pakistanis, etc. I mixed up with them well and in all my dealing with them i never felt any life or light radiate from them. All there religious practices was just mere observation of rules like praying 5 times a day because there was no life or positive spiritual energy i can feel radiating from them. Even during Ramadan then some of those my friends will invite me to their iftal or some times the early morning meal they eat b4 fasting, I even went to the burial of one of my friends brother i was even  there on the grave side but in all this LET ME SAY IT AGAIN I COULD NOT FEEL ANY POSITIVE FORCE FROM THEIR SPIRITUALITY, THAT IS WHY ME PERSONALLY KNOW BEYOND  DOUBT THAT ISLAM CANT SAVE, THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD MUSLIMS, WHEN I MEAN NICE PEOPLE BUT SOMETIMES I FEEL BURDEN FOR THEM, THE ONLY THING I CAN DO IS PRAY FOR THEM. THATS ALL I CAN SAY NOW.

na wa o.2day na banarbs write,2mao na mohamed write,whch 1 dm dy talk,nairaland don dy lie 2much,na so 1 islamic scholar,emir of kano abi where son,talk say em stdy islam discova sey koran dy talk bout my Jesus.em convert.nw dm fynd scripture.if dm lyk mk dm fynd mohamed writn 4 cave 4 saudi arabia.na my Jesus.i cnt b brainwashd.as evil as they r them dy preach.abeg mk we hear.xtians we go soon go Aba go fynd ancient bible.aftal aba boys fit mk dat thng dm fynd,no b animal skin nd gold biro.frauds@them.mtchew, dsperados

dota:

na wa o.2day na banarbs write,2mao na mohamed write,whch 1 dm dy talk,nairaland don dy lie 2much,na so 1 islamic scholar,emir of kano abi where son,talk say em stdy islam discova sey koran dy talk bout my Jesus.em convert.nw dm fynd scripture.if dm lyk mk dm fynd mohamed writn 4 cave 4 saudi arabia.na my Jesus.i cnt b brainwashd.as evil as they r them dy preach.abeg mk we hear.xtians we go soon go Aba go fynd ancient bible.aftal aba boys fit mk dat thng dm fynd,no b animal skin nd gold biro.frauds@them.mtchew, dsperados

Is this English language?

This artefact has been discredited for some years now as a fake. the writings are inconsistent with both the time of its supposed writing and with other accounts of Jesus.

Even if I find out that the religion I practice is false and Jesus Christ that I claim to be my saviour did not exist, I will continue to be a christian because it is not just a religion, it is life itself!

Behold this are the days of the anti-christ,many strange things will occure stand in your feet and renounce the devil,

Stop propagating errors. There is nothing of such. Jesus is the Lord.

Its a big hoax,people can go at any length to prove rubbish, since its rubbish I have thrown it to d waste bin

LagosShia:

comparing the bible to hadith does not give the case of the bible any credence.

muslims do not accept the hadiths compilations or books to be 100% authentic.the hadiths are meant to be narrations heard from the Prophet (sa).muslims do not claim that all that the Prophet (sa) ever spoke was written.in other words,the hadiths contains details that were recorded.moreover,not all that was recorded is even accepted as authentic or the true words of the Prophet (sa).

the muslims have the Quran as the yardstick to judge any individual hadith.if for instance a hadith contradicts the Quran,we know that the hadith is wrong and could never have been the words of the Prophet (sa).to the muslim the Quran alone stands 100% authentic and acceptable without any doubt.

therefore the Quran and not the hadith books is the word of God.now when we look at the christian like yourself comparing the bible to hadith compilations,i really ask myself:do i have anymore to say to you that your bible is fallible? the case is closed!!!
What the 3rd sunni caliph (not caliphs) did was to create more copies of the Quran from the original written in patches of palm date and animal bones and the like of available materials.what actually prompted the 3rd sunni caliph to do that was two things:
1.) The appearance of verses in distant lands newly conquered where the wordings of the Quran are either distorted or changed because of language and pronunciation.
2.) The fear that the companions of memorized and wrote the Quran when its verses were revealed in the days of Muhammad (sa) were dying and only a few remained.now you have converted that to mean that verses were lost when those men who memorized the Quran died.that is dishonest.
You narration of lies trying to cast doubt on the Quran is not impressive in fact but only in words.there were no versions in the middle east.compiling an entire book in those days was not a child’s play nor were there printing presses that could easily have done that.it took the caliph to bring together the written records from Muhammad’s (sa) time and also the companions who witnesses the revelation,writing and memorization of the Quran.it goes to point that there were written records,and also there were men who witnessed the revelation and preservation of the Quran.
Inspite of a record found newly in Turkey which predates the birth of Muhammad (sa) himself,you will even deny Muhammad (sa) was prophesied by Jesus (as) even if Jesus (as) himself speaks to you.

The comforter in the bible cannot be the “holy spirit”.even if for argument sake I accept it is not Muhammad (sa) because of bias/prejudice,then you can only honestly accept it was not the holy spirit either.Jesus (as) said it was expedient for him to go or else the comforter would not come.examining the bible,we see that all along from Genesis (before Jesus),up to the days of Jesus the “holy spirit” was there.so therefore this comforter who will come only after Jesus is gone has to be someone other than the holy spirit.going by the use of pronouns for the comforter,we can only say the comforter has to be a man.then comparing what the comforter would do upon his coming,we must admit it was Muhammad (sa)!!!

Additionally,other prophecies in the new testament only further tell us that the comforter has to be an Arabian man.you can see this:

The New Islamic Nation In Undeniable Bible Prophecies

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.0.html

The case in the newly discovered text which is said to be a 1500 years old gospel of barnabas in turkey is a different case from the word “MUHAMMADIM” found in the songs of Solomon.you can speculate and argue that the songs of Solomon is not about Muhammad (sa) even though the word “MUHAMMADIM” is found there.but in the gospel of barnabas,we find a prophecy of a man to come.this isn’t a case of poetry and sound as is the case with the songs of Solomon.
It is the same obsession with Christians going through jewish texts to find something about Jesus (as).christians interpret a 1001 prophecies relating it to Jesus (as).yet the jews who own those texts have different interpretations.of note though is the fact that the jews never expected a messiah to come to be a demi-god or someone to be divine as Christians have made Jesus (as).
It is the greatest misfortune for any Christian to mention Paul to validate the claims or person of any disciple of even Jesus himself.Paul had disputes with the disciples of Jesus.they were in disagreement.

Please see these:

“Paul Versus The Disciples”:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-846385.0.html

“Paul Vs. Jesus's Teachings: Is There A Conflict? For serious bible scholars”:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-859735.0.html#msg10096122

“Bible Verses Of How Paul Contradicted Jesus (as)”
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820209.0.html

in your haste to write something you forgot to read my post C A R E F U L L Y. until you do, you are wasting both our time.

you say the Hadith is not 100% accurate.  BUT religious writings are either right or wrong not partly correct or partially wrong. Which is the Hadith? And, incredibly, lives depend on the Hadith! prayers rituals, apostasy laws, blasphemy laws, Hajj rituals, Sharia laws etc depend on religious texts that are not 100% accurate?

You love to give yourselves room to maneuver   

tiarabubu:

in your haste to write something you forgot to read my post C A R E F U L L Y. until you do, you are wasting both our time.

you say the Hadith is not 100% accurate.  BUT religious[b] writings are either right or wrong [/b]not partly correct or partially wrong. Which is the Hadith? And, incredibly, lives depend on the Hadith! prayers rituals, apostasy laws, blasphemy laws, Hajj rituals, Sharia laws etc depend on religious texts that are not 100% accurate?

You love to give yourselves room to maneuver   

Is there any basis to the bolded that you care to share or just an idea you happen to like

Is there any religious book that you believe to be right or in your words.100% accurate ?

I would be happy to know which it is  thanks

tiarabubu:

in your haste to write something you forgot to read my post C A R E F U L L Y. until you do, you are wasting both our time.

you say the Hadith is not 100% accurate.  BUT religious writings are either right or wrong not partly correct or partially wrong. Which is the Hadith? And, incredibly, lives depend on the Hadith! prayers rituals, apostasy laws, blasphemy laws, Hajj rituals, Sharia laws etc depend on religious texts that are not 100% accurate?

You love to give yourselves room to maneuver   

I've always known @Lagoshia as a fraud. His distorted posts and replies are only but bunch of gibberish.

Its his Hatered made up his smiley,

NOW CHRISTIANS READ AND THINK!!!
I found this and I believe it will be useful to everyone on this forum. The Bible had always talked about the coming of prophet Muhammad (SAW) and you can find that out in the following text below.



What the Bible says about
Muhammad, The Prophet of Islam
by Ahmed Deedat
________________________________________
SAY: "DO YOU SEE ? WHETHER THIS MESSAGE BE FROM ALLAH (God Almighty), AND YET YOU REJECT IT, AND A WITNESS FROM AMONG THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BORE WITNESS OF ONE LIKE HIM, " (Holy Qur'an 46:10). (see note 1)  
________________________________________
Mr.Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen,
 
The subject of this evening's talk - "What the BIBLE says about MUHAMMED" - will no doubt come as a surprise to many of you because the speaker is a Muslim. How does it come about that a Muslim happens to be expounding prophecies from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures ?

 
As a young man, about 30 years ago, I attended a series of religious lectures by a Chriatian theologian, a certain Rev. Hiten, at the "Theatre Royal", Durban in South Africa.

Pope or Kissinger?
 
This Reverend gentleman was expounding Biblical prophecies. He went on to prove that the Christian Bible foretold the rise of Soviet Russia, and the Last Days. At one stage he went to the extent of proving that his Holy Book did not leave even the Pope out of its predictions. He expatiated vigo rously in order to convince his audience that the "Beast 666" mentioned in the Book of Revelation the last book of the New Testament was the POPE, who was the Vicar of Christ on earth. It is not befitting for us Muslims to enter into this controversy between the Roman Catholics and the Protestants. By the way, the latest Christia exposition of the "Beast 666" of the Christian Bible is Dr.Henry Kissinger(2). Christian scholars are ingenious and indefatigable in their efforts to prove their case.

 
Rev. Hiten's lectures led me to ask that if the Bible foretold so many things - not even excluding the "Pope" and "Israel" - then surely it must have something to say about the greatest benefactor of mankind(3) , the Holy Prophet Muhammed (may the peace of Allah be upon him).

 
As a youngster I set out to search for an answer. I met priest after priest, attended lectures, and read everything that I could lay my hands relating to the fields of Bible prophecies. Tonight I am going to narrate to you one of these interviews with a dominee(4) of the Dutch Reformed Church.< P> Lucky Thirteen

I was invited to the Transvaal(5) to deliver a talk on the occasion of Birthday celebration of the Holy Prophet Muhammed. Knowing that in that province of the Republic, the Afrikaans language is widely spoken, even by my own people, I felt that I ought to acquire a smattering of this language so a s to feel a little "at home" with the people. I opened the telephone directory and began phoning the Afrikaans-speaking Churches. I indicated my purpose to the priests that I was interested in having a dialogue with them, but they all refused my request with "Plausible" excuses. No.13 was my lucky number. The thirteenth call brought me pleasure and relief. A dominee Van Heerden agreed to meet me at his home on the Saturday afternoon that I was to leave for Transvaal.
He received me on his verandah with a friendly welcome. He said if I did not mind, he would like his father-in-law from the Free State (a 70 year old man) to join us in the discussion. I did not mind. The three of us settled down in the dominee's library.
Why nothing?
I posed the question: "What does the Bible say about Muhummed?" Without hesitation he answered, "Nothing!" I asked: "Why nothing? According to your interpretation the Bible have so many things to say about the rise of Soviet Russia and about the Last Days and even about the Pope of the Roman Ca tholics?" He said, "Yes, but there was nothing about Muhummed!" I asked again, "Why nothing? Surely this man Muhummed who had been responsible for the bringing into being a world-wide community of millions of Believers who, on his authority, believe in:

(1) the miraculous birth of Jesus,
(2) that Jesus is the Messiah,(note 6)
(3) that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission.
Surely this book (the Bible) must have something to say about this great Leader of men who spoke so well of Jesus and his mother Mary?"
 
 
The old man from the Free State replied. "My son, I have been reading the Bible for the past 50 years, and if there was any mention of him, I would have known it."
 
 
 
Not One by name!
I enquired: "According to you, are there not hundreds of prophecies regarding the coming of Jesus in the Old Testament." The dominee interjected: "Not hundreds, but thousands!" I said, "I am not going to dispute the 'thousand and one' prophecies in the Old Testament regarding the coming of Jesu s Christ, because the whole Muslim-world has already accepted him without the testimony of any Biblical prophecy. We Muslims have accepted the de facto Jesus on the authority of Muhummed alone, and there are in the world today no less than 900,000,000 followers of Muhummed who love, respect and revere Jesus Christ as a great Messenger of God without having the Christians to convince them by means of their Biblical dialectics. Out of the 'thousands' of prophecies referred to, can you please give me just one single prophecy where Jesus is mentioned by name? The term 'Messiah', translated as 'C hrist', is not a name but a title. Is there a single Prophecy where it says that the name of the Messiah will be JESUS, and that his mother's name will be MARY, that his supposed father will be JOSEPH THE CARPENTER; that he will be born in the reign of HEROD THE KING, etc. etc.? No! There are no su ch details! Then how can you conclude that those 'thousand' Prophecies refer to Jesus (Peace be upon him)?
 
 
What is Prophecy?
The dominee replies: "You see, prophecies are word-pictures of something that is going to happen in the future. When that thing actually comes to pass, we see vividly in these prophecies the fulfilment of what had been predicted in the past." I said: "What you actually do is that you deduce, yo u reason, you put two and two together." He said: "Yes." I said: "If this is what you have to do with a 'thousand' prophecies to justify your claim with regards to the genuineness of Jesus, why should we not adopt the very same system for Muhummed?" The dominee agreed that it was a fair proposition , a reasonable way of dealing with the problem.

 
I asked him to open up Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 18, which he did. I read from memory the verse in Afrikaans, because this was my purpose in having a little practice with the language of the ruling race in South Africa. (
'N PROFEET SAL EK VIR HULLE VERWEK UIT DIE MIDDE VAN HULLE BROERS, SOOS JY IS, EN EK SAL MY WOORDE IN SY MOND LE, EN HY SY SAL AAN HULLE SE ALLE WAT EK HOM BEVEEL. Deut.18: 18.
The English translation reads as follows:-
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18.
Prophet Like Moses
 

Area of Comparison                      Moses                         Muhammad                            Jesus
• Birth                                          Usual                                       Usual                                       Unusual
• Family Life                      Married, children                 Married, children                 No marriage, no children
• Death                                  Usual                                         Usual                                       Unusual
• Career                             Prophet/Statesman                  Prophet/Statesman                        Prophet
• Forced Emigration (in adulthood) To Median                       To Madinah                                 None
• Encounter with Enemies           Hot pursuit                         Hot pursuit/Battles                              No similar encounter
• Results of encounter   Moral/Physical Victory                      Moral/Physical Victory                      Moral Victory
• Writing down of Revelation In his Lifetime (Torah)    In his lifetime (Al-Qur'an)                       After him
• Nature of teachings                Spiritual/Legal                             Spiritual/Legal                            Mainly Spritual
• Acceptance of Leadership by his people Rejected then Accepted Rejected then Accepted  Rejected (by most Israelites)
 
Having recited the verse in Afrikaans, I apologised for my uncertain pronunciation, The dominee assured me that I was doing fine. I enquired: "To whom does this prophecy refer?" Without the slightest hesitation he answered: "JESUS!" I asked: "Why Jesus?, his name is not mentioned here." The domin ee replied: "Since prophecies are word-pictures of something that is going to happen in the future, we find that the wordings of this verse adequately describe him. You see the most important words of this prophecy are 'SOOS JY IS' (like unto thee), - LIKE YOU - like Moses, and Jesus is like Moses. " I questioned: "In which way is Jesus like Moses?" The answer was: "In the first place Moses was a JEW and Jesus was also a JEW; secondly, Moses was a PROPHET and Jesus was also a PROPHET - therefore Jesus is like Moses and that is exactly what God had foretold Moses - "SOOS JY IS". "Can you think of any other similarities between Moses and Jesus?" I asked. The dominee said that he could not think of any. I replied: "If these are the only two criteria for discovering a candidate for this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18, then in that case the criteria could fit any one of the following Biblica l personages after Moses:- Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc., because they were also ALL Jews as well as Prophets. Why should we not apply this prophency to any one of these prophets, and why only to Jesus? Why should we make fish of one and fowl of anoth er?" The dominee had no reply. I continued: "You see, my conclusions are that Jesus is most unlike Moses, and if I am wrong I would like you to correct me."

Three Unlikes
So staying, I reasoned with him: "In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to you - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. Is this true?" He said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses! SECONDLY, according to you - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Mose s did not have to die for the sins of the world. Is this true?" He again said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses! THIRDLY, according to you - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. Is this true?" He answered meekly: "Y-e-s." I concluded: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!" "But dominee," I continued: "these are not hard facts, solid facts, they are mere matters of belief over which the little ones can stumble and fall. Let us discuss something very simple, very easy that if your little ones are called in to hear the discussion, would have no difficulty in following it, shall we?" The dominee was quiet happy at the suggestion.

Father and Mother
(1) "Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Is this true?" He said: "Yes." I said: "DAAROM IS JESUS NIE SOOS MOSES NIE, MAAR MUHUMMED IS SOOS MOSES!" Meaning: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is lik e Moses!" (By now the reader will realise that I was using the Afrikaans language only for practice purposes. I shall discontinue its use in this narration).

Miraculous Birth
(2) "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. You will recall that we are told in the Gospel of St.Matthew 1:18", BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER,(Joseph the Carpenter and Mary) SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD BY THE HOLY GHOST.' And St.Luke tells us that when the good news of the birth of a holy son was announced to her, Mary reasoned:', HOW SHALL THIS BE, SEEING I KNOW NOT A MAN? AND THE ANGEL ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HER, THE HOLY GHOST SHALL COME UPON THEE, AND THE POWER OF THE HIGHEST SHALL OVERSHADOW THEE:, '(Luke 1:35). The Holy Qur'an confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus, in nobler and sublimer terms. In answer to her logical question:
" O MY LORD! HOW SHALL I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HATH TOUCHED ME? "
The angel says in reply: "EVEN SO: ALLAH CREATETH WHAT HE WILLETH: WHEN HE HATH DECREED A PLAN, HE BUT SAITH TO IT "BE," AND IT IS " (9)     (HOLY QUR'AN, 3:47).
 
 
It is not necessary for God to plant a seed in man or animal. He merely wills it and it comes into being. This is the Muslim conception of the of birth of Jesus.
(When I compared the Qur'an and the Biblical versions of the birth of Jesus to the head of the Bible Society in our largest City, and when I enquired: "Which version would you prefer to give your daughter, the QUR'ANIC version or the BIBLICAL version?" The man bowed his head and answered: "The Qur'anic." In short, I said to the dominee: "Is it true that Jesus was born miraculously as against the natural birth of Moses and Muhummed?"He replied proudly:"Yes!" I said:"Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses. And God says to Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18 "LIKE UNTO THEE" (Like You, Like Moses) and Muhummed is like Moses."

Marriage Ties
(3) "Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life. Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses."

Jesus Rejected by his People
(3) "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life imposs ible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, ofter two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejeted him. Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I said: "THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES."

"Other-Wordly" Kingdom
(5) "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day , and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people. There are instances in the Bible of persons who wer e given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their mesage, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charg e: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE"(John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possessio n of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet. Is this true?" The dominee answered:"Yes." I said:"Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

No New Laws
(6) "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-m others; they buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATI ON.' There was hardly anything to distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they were animals in human form.

"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the words of Thomas Carlysle, 'into torch-bearers of light and learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREA SECTION OF THE WORLD. , ' The fact is that Muhummed gave his people a Law and Order they never had before.

"As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an imposter with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT IAM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: IAM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand- unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or 'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which charges they al wasy levied against his disciples, but never against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed. Is this true?" I asked the dominee, and he answered: "Yes." I said:"Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

How they Departed
(7) "Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross.(10) Is this true?" The dominee said: "Yes." I averred: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

Heavenly Abode
( "Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true?" The dominee agreed. I said: "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

Ishmael The First Born
Since the dominee was helplessly agreeing with every point, I said, "Dominee, so far what I have done is to prove only one point out of the whole prophecy- that is proving the phrase 'LIKE UNTO THEE' - 'Like You' 'Like Moses'. The Prophecy is much more than this single phrase which reads as follows : "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE, " The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the arabs. You see, the Holy Bible s peaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- ', And Abraham(11) called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON, " (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and sed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, wh o was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.

Arabs and Jews
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israeli tes beause he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among the mselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

Words in the Mouth
"The prophecy proceeds further:', AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH, ' What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my words in your mouth'? You see, when I asked you (the dominee) to open Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18, at the beginning, and if I had asked you to read, and if you had read: would I be putting my words into your mouth?" The dominee answered: "No." "But," I continued: "If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat after me what I utter i.e.:

"SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;
ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;
HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:
AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.

(Holy Qur'an 112:1-4)( I read them in Arabic )
Would I not be putting these unheard words of a foreign tongue which you utter, into your mouth?" The dominee agreed that it was indeed so. In an identical manner, I said, the words of the Holy Qur'an, the Revelation vouchsafed by the Almighty God to Muhummed, were revealed.

History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue:'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed w as terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.
Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:
"READ! IN THE NAME OF THE LORD AND CHERISHER, WHO CREATED-
CREATED MAN, FROM A (MERE) CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD:
READ! AND THY LORD IS MOST BOUNTIFUL,-
HE WHO TAUGHT (THE USE OF) THE PEN,
TAUGHT MAN THAT WHICH HE KNEW NOT".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)


These are the first five verses which were revealed to Muhummed which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.

The Faithful Witness
Immediately the angel had departed, Muhummed rushed to his home. Terrified and sweating all over he asked his beloved wife Khadija to 'cover him up!' He lay down, and she watched by him. When he had regained his composure, he explained to her what he had seen and heard. She assured him of her faith in him and that Allah would not allow any terrible thing to happen to him. Are these the confessions of an imposter? Would imposters confess that when an angel of the Lord confronts them with a Message from on High, they get fear-stricken, terrified, and sweating all over, run home to their wives? Any critic can see that his reactions and confessions are that of an honest, sincere man, the man of Truth- 'AL-AMIN' - THE Honest, the Upright, the Truthful. During the next twenty-three years of his prophetic life, words were 'Put into his mouth', and he uttered them. They made an indeliable imp ression on his heart and mind: and as the volume of the Sacred Scripture (Holy Qur'an) grew, they were recorded on palm-leaf libre, on skins and on the shoulder-blades of animals; and in the hearts of his devoted disciples. Before his demise these words were arranged according to his instructions i n the order in which we find them to-day in the Holy Qurann.
The words (revelation) were actually put into his mouth, exactly as foretold in the prophecy under discusiion: 'AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH.'(Deut. 18:18).

Un-lettered Prophet
Muhummed's experience in the cave of Hira, later to be known as Jabal-un Noor - The Mountain of Light, and his response to that first Revelation is the exact fulfilment of another Biblical Prophecy. In the Book of Isaish. Chapter 29, verse 12, we read: "AND THE BOOK" (al-Kitaab,al-Quran the 'Readin g', the 'Recitation') "IS DELIVERED TO HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED," (Isaiah 29:12) "THE UNLETTERED PROPHET " (Holy Qur'an 7:158) and the biblical verse continues : "SAYING, READ THIS, I PRAY THEE:" (the words "I pray thee", are not in the Hebrew manuscripts; compare with the Roman Cathol ics' "Douay Version and also with the "Revised Standard Versions" "AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT LEARNED." ("I am not learned." is the exact translation of the Arabic words which Muhummed uttered twice to the Holy Ghose - the Archangel Gabriel, when he was commanded : "READ!".
Let me quote the verse in full without a break as found in the "King James Version," or the "Authorised version" as it is more popularly know "AND THE BOOK IS DELIVERED TO HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, SAYING, READ THIS I PRAY THEE: AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT LEARNED." (Isaiah 29:12).

Important note :
It may be noted that there were no Arabic Bibles(12) in existence in the 6th Century of the Christian Era when Muhummed lived and preachedl Besides, he was absolutely unlettered and unlearned. No human had ever taught him a word. His teacher was his Creator:
"HE DOES NOT SPEAK (AUGHT), OF (HIS OWN) DESIRE:
IT IS NO LESS THAN INSPIRATION SENT DOWN TO HIM:
HE WAS TAUGHT BY ONE MIGHTY IN POWER,"
(Holy Qur'an 53:3-5).

Without any human learning, 'he put to shame the wisdom of the learned'.


Grave Warning
"See!" I told the dominee, "how the prophecies fit Muhummed like a glove. We do not have to stretch prophecies to justify their fulfilment in Muhummed."
The dominee replied, "All your expositions sound very well, but they are of no real consequence, because we Christians have Jesus Christ the "incarnate" God, who has redeemed us from the Bondage of Sin!"

I asked, "Not important?" God didn't think so! He went to a great deal of trouble to have His warnings recorded. God knew that there would be people like you who will flippantly, light-heartedly discount his words, so he followed up Deuteronomy 18:18 with a dire warning: "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, " (it is going to happen) "THAT WHOSOEVER WILL NOT HEARKEN UNTO MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME, I WILL REQUIRE IT OF HIM. (in the Catholic Bible the ending words are - "I will be the revenger", I will take vengeance from him - I will take revenge!) "Does not this terrify you? God Almighty is threathening revenge! We shake in our pants if some hoodlum threathens us, yet you have no fear of God's warning?"

"Miracle of Miracles! in the verse 19 of Deuteronomy chapter 18, we have a further fulfilment of the prophecy in Muhummed! Note the words-', MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME," In whose name is Muhummed speaking?" I opened Yusuf Ali's translation of the Holy Qur'an, at chapter 114- 'Sura Nas', or Mankind - the last chapter, and showed him the formula at the head of the charpter: and the meaning: "IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL." And the heading of chapter 113: and the meaning: "IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL". And every chapter downwards 112 , 111, 110, was the same formula and the same meaning on every page, because the end SURAS (chapters) are short and take about a page each.

"And what did the prophecy demand?' , WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME and in whose name does Muhummed speak?'IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.' The Prophecy is being fulfilled in Muhummed to the letter "Every chapter of the Holy Qur'an except the 9th begin with the formula: IN TH E NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.' The Muslim begins his every lawful act with the Holy formula. But the Christian begins: "In the name of the Father, son and holy ghost.'"(13)
Concerning Deuteronomy chapter eighteen, I have given you more than 15 reasons as to how this prophecy refers to Muhummed and NOT to Jesus.

Baptist Contradicts Jesus
In New Testament times, we find that the Jews were still expecting the fulfilment of the prophecy of 'ONE LIKE MOSES', refer John 1:19-25. When Jesus claimed to be the Messiah of the Jews,the Jews began to enquire as to where was Elias? The Jews had a parallel prophecy that before the coming of the Messiah, Elias must come first in his second coming. Jesus confirms this Jewish belief:

", ELIAS TRULY SHALL FIRST COME, AND RESTORE ALL THINGS. BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT ELIAS IS COME ALREADY, AND THEY KNEW HIM NOT,, THEN THE DISCIPLES UNDERSTOOD THAT HE SPAKE UNTO THEM OF JOHN THE BAPTIST."(Matthew 17:11-13). According to the New Testament the Jews were not the ones to swallow the words of any would-be Messiah. In their investigations they underwent intense difficulties in order to find their true Messiah. And this the Gospel of John confirms: "AND THIS IS THE RECORD OF JOHN,"(the Baptist) "WHEN THE JEWS SENT PRIESTS AND LEVITES FROM JERUSALEM TO ASK HIM, WHO ART THOU? AND HE CONFESSED AND DENIED NOT; BUT CONFESSED, I AM NOT THE CHRIST." (This was only natural because there can't be two Messiahs (14) at the same time. If Jesus was the Christ then John couldn't be the Christ!) "AND THEY ASKED HIM, WHAT THEN? ART THOU ELIAS? AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT." (Here Joh n the Baptist contradicts Jesus! Jesus says that John is "Elias" and John denies that he is what Jesus ascribes him to be. One of the TWO (Jesus or John), God forbid!, is difinitely not speaking the TRUTH! On the testimony of Jesus himself, John the Baptist was the greatest of the Israelite prophet s:"VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, AMOUNG THEM THAT ARE BORN OF WOMEN THERE HAS NOT RISENA GREATER THAN JOHN THE BAPTIST:, (Matthew 11:11).

We Muslims know John the Baptist as Hazrut YAHYAA Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him). We revere him as a true prophet of Allah. The Holy Prophet Jesus known to us as Hazrut ISAA Alai-his-salaam (peace be upon him), is also esteemed as one of the mightiest messenger of the Almighty. How can we Musl ims impute lies to either of them? We leave this problem between Jesus and John for the Christians to solve, for their "sacred scriptures abound in discrepancies which they have been glossing over as the "dark sayings of Jesus"(15). We Muslims are really interested in the last questions posed to Jo hn the Baptist by the Jewish elite- "ART THOU THAT PROPHET? AND HE ANSWERED, NO."(John 1:21)

Three Questions!
Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic "NO'S" as answers. To recapitulate:-
1) ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2) ART THOU ELIAS?
3) ART THOU THAT PROPHET?
But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here. To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interogating John the Baptist, let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:
"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHEY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE
a) NOT THAT CHRIST,
b) NOR ELIAS,
c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?"
(John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfilment of THREE distinct prophecies: One, the coming of CHRIST. Two the coming of ELIAS, and Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.

"That Prophet"
If we look up any Bible which has a concordance or cross-references, the we will find in the marginal note where the words "the Prophet", or "that Prophet" occur in John 1:25, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18. And that 'that prophet' - 'the prophet like Moses' - "LIKE UNTO THEE", we have proved through overwhelming evidence that he was MUHUMMED and not Jesus!

We Muslims are not denying that Jesus was the "Messiah", which word is translated as "Christ".(16) We are not contesting the "thousand and one prophecies" which the Christians claim abound in the Old Testament foretelling the coming of the Messiah. What we say is that Deuteronomy 18:18 does NOT ref er to Jesus Christ but it is an explicit prophecy about the Holy Prophet MUHUMMED!"

The dominee, very politely parted with me by saying that it was a very interesting discussion and he would like me very much to come one day and address his congregation on the subject. A decade and half has passed since then but I am still awaiting that privilege.
I believe the dominee was sincere when he made the offer, but prejudices die hard and who would like to loose his sheep?

The Acid Test
To the lambs of Christ I say, why not apply that acid test which the Master himself wanted you to apply to any would be claimant to prophethood? He had said: "BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM. DO MEN GATHER GRAPES FROM THE THORNS, OR FIGS FROM THE THISTLES? EVERY GOOD TREE WILL BEAR GOOD FRUIT AN D EVERY EVIL TREE WILL BEAR EVIL FRUIT, BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM. (Matthew 7:16-20).
Why are you afraid to apply this test to the teachings of Muhummed? You will find in the Last Testament of God - the Holy Qur'an - the true fulfilment of the teachings of Moses and Jesus which will bring to the world the much-needed peace and happiness. "IF A MAN LIKE MOHAMED WERE TO ASSUME THE DIC TATORSHIP OF THE MODERN WORLD, HE WOULD SUCCEED IN SOLVING ITS PROBLEMS THAT WOULD BRING IT THE MUCH NEEDED PEACE AND HAPPINESS."(George Bernard Shaw)

The Greatest!
The Weekly Newsmagazine "TIME" dated July 15, 1974, carried a selection of opinions by various historians, writers, military men, businessmen and others on the subject: "Who Were History's Great Leaders?" Some said that it was Hitler; others said-Gandhi, Buddha, Lincoln and the like. But Jules Mass erman, a United States psychoanalyst put the standards straight by giving the correct criteria wherewith to judge. He said: "LEADERS MUST FULFIL THREE FUNCTIONS:-
(1) Provide for the well-being of the led,
(2) Provide a social organization in which people feel relatively secure
and
(3) Provide them with one set of beliefs."
With the above three criteria he searches history and analyses - Hitler, Pasteur, Gaesar, Moses, Confucius and the lot, and ultimately concludes:
"PEOPLE LIKE PASTEUR AND SALK ARE LEADERS IN THE FIRST SENSE. PEOPLE LIKE GANDHI AND CONFUCIUS, ON ONE HAND, AND ALEXANDER, CAESAR AND HITLER ON THE OTHER, ARE LEADERS IN THE SECOND AND PERHAPS THE THIRD SENSE. JESUS AND BUDDHA BELONG IN THE THIRD CATEGORY ALONE. PERHAPS THE GREATEST LEADER OF ALL TIMES WAS MOHAMMED, WHO COMBINED ALL THREE FUNCTIONS. To a lesser degree, MOSES DID THE SAME."

According to the objective standards set by the Professor of the Chicago University, whome I believe to be Jewish, - JESUS and BUDDHA are now - here in the picture of the "Great Leaders of Mankind", but by a queer coincidence groups Moses and Muhummed together thus adding further weight to the argu ment that JESUS is not like MOSES, but MUHUMMED is like MOSES: Deut.18:18 "LIKE UNTO THEE" - Like MOSES!
In conclusion, I end with a quotation of a Christian Reverend the commentator of the Bible, followed by that of his Master:
"THE ULTIMATE CRITERION OF A TRUE PROPHET IS THE MORAL CHARACTER OF HIS TEACHING."(Prof.Dummelow.)
"BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM." (Jesus Christ)
 
A concluding suggestion : Come let us reason together !
SAY:"O PEOPLE OF THE BOOK!
COME TO COMMON TERMS AS BETWEEN US AND YOU:
THAT WE WORSHIP NONE BUT GOD;
THAT WE ASSOCIATE NO PARTNERS WITH HIM;
THAT WE ERECT NOT, FROM AMONG OURSELVES,
LORDS AND PATRONS OTHER THAN GOD."
IF THEN THEY TURN BACK,
SAY:"BEAR WITNESS THAT WE (AT LEAST)
ARE MUSLIMS (BOWING TO GOD'S WILL)."
(Holy Qur'an 3:64)

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"PEOPLE OF THE BOOK" is the respectful title given to the Jews and the Christians in the Holy Qur'an. The Muslims is here commanded to invite - "O People of the Book!" - O Learned People! O People who claim to be the recipients of Divine Revelation, of a Holy Scripture; let us gather together onto a common platform - "that we worship none but God", because none but God is worthy of worship, not because "THE LORD THY GOD IS A JEALOUS GOD VISITING THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHERS UPON THE CHILDREN UNTO THE THIRD AND FOURTH GENERATION OF THEM THAT HATE ME."(Exodus 20:25). But because He is ou r Lord and Cherisher, our Sustainer and Evolver, worthy of all praise, prayer and devotion.
In the abstract the Jews and the Christians would agree to all the three propositions contained in this Qur'anic verse. In practice they fail. Apart from doctrinal lapses from the unity of the One True God, (ALLAH_ Subha-nahu wa ta-ala) there is the question of a consecrated Priesthood (among the J ews it was hereditary also), as if a mere human being - Cohe or Pope, or Priest, or Brahuman, - could claim superiority apart from his learning and the purity of his life, or could stand between man and God in some special sense. ISLAM DOES NOT RECOGNISE PRIESTHOOD!

The Creed of Islam is given to us here in a nutshell from Holy Qur'an:
Say ye: "We believe in Allah,
And the revelation given to us,
And to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac,
Jacob, and the Tribes,
And that given to Moses and Jesus
And that given to (all)
Prophets from their Lord:
We make no difference
Between one and another of them:
And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
(Holy Qur'an 2:136).

 
 
 The Muslim position is clear. The Muslim does not claim to have a religion peculiar to himself. Islam is not a sect or an ethnic religion. In its view all Religion is one, for the Truth is one. IT WAS THE SAME RELIGION PREACHED BY ALL THE EARLIER PROPHETS. (Holy Qur'an 42:13). It was the truth taug ht by all the inspired Books. In essence it amounts to a consciousness of the Will and Plan of God and a joyful submission to that Will and Plan. IF ANYONE WANTS A RELIGION OTHER THAN THAT, HE IS FALSE TO HIS OWN NATURE, AS HE IS FALSE TO GOD'S WILL AND PLAN. Such a one cannot expect guidance, for he has deliberately renounced guidance.
 
NOTES
(1) This refers to Moses. See Yusuf Ali's commentaries Nos. 4783/4 to this verse.
(2) Christian exegesists give progressive numerical values by sixes, to the English alphabet and add up to get the total 666. i.e.A=6,B=12,C=18, D=24 and so on. Progression by 6's because the number of the Beast in the Bible is "666". Try it for Dr.Kissinger.
(3) The writer has just delivered another talk in the City Hall, Durban on the 10th December, 1975 on the subject "Muhummed the Greatest".
(4) "Dominee" is the Afrikaans equivalent of priest, parson and predikant.
(5) One of the Provinces of the Republic of South Africa.
(6) The word "Messiah" comes from the Arabic and Hebrew word masaha which means to rub, to massage, to annoint. The religious significance is "the one who is anointed' - priests and kings were anointed in consecration to their offices. Messiah translated Christ does not mean God. Even the heathen C yrus is called "Christ" in the Bible, (Isaiah 45:1)
(7) Muhummed is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomn 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is Muhammuddim. The end letters IM is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus "im" the name would be Muhamudd translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or 'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED!
( If this lecture is translated into any language, please change the Afrikaans words into the local dialect; and do not try a free hand translation of the Biblical quotation. Obtain a Bible in the language in which translation is being made and transcribe exactly as the words occur in that Bible.
(9) Please open the Holy Qur'an 3:42 and 19:16 where the birth of Jesus is spoken about; read it with the commentry, note the high position which Jesus and his mother occupy in Islam.
(10) Write for "Was Christ Crucified?" by the writer, free on request.
(11) According to the Bible Abraham's name was Abram before it was changed by God to Abraham.
(12) There are today Arabic Bibles in Fourteen different scripts and dialects for the Arabs alone. See "The Gospels in many tongues", obtainable from the Bible Society.
(13) The Christian theologians are ignorant of even the "name of God. Because "God" is not a name, and "Father" is also not a name. What's his name? See "Muhummed-the Natural Successor to Christ", by the author, available free.
(14) The Jews were expecting a single Messiah not two.
(15) See the "TIMES" Magazine December 30th, 1974, article "How true is the Bible?" And write for your free copy of "50,000 Errors in the Bible? a reproduction from the Christian Magazine "AWAKE!" September 8, 1957.
(15) How the word Messiah was transmuted to Christ? Write for booklet above, reference 13.

 
[Comparative Analysis] [Prophet Muhammad] [Mainpage] [What's New?]

aribisala0:

Is there any basis to the bolded that you care to share or just an idea you happen to like

Is there any religious book that you believe to be right or in your words.100% accurate ?

I would be happy to know which it is  thanks

Yes oh. i know.

You guys with your own mouths condemn your Hadith as not being 100% accurate yet it teaches you the wudu (prayer ritual), circumcision, Hajj ritual, Sharia law, apostasy law, how to eat, how to fast, how to pay zakat etc yet the Hadith and Quran itself says


"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel3/12,21,39)

"Shall I seek OTHER THAN THE GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed THIS BOOK FULLY DETAILED?"
(Quran, 6:114)

Such are the Signs of God, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what HADEETH will they believe after God and His Signs? (Quran 45.6)


Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that God hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what HADEETH after this will they then believe? (Quran 7.185)


A Hadith is declared "weak" or a "srong" Hadith based on exigencies. Thats not right. The salvation of millions depends on it. Its either used or not. True or Not.

Don't you agree?



Back to the thread o'jare

Who are you guys?

I am not a muslim.!!!I asked you a simple question!
Obviously you have no answer and your response is to attack your "ENEMIES" the muslims
Well i am not one
Can you justify your claim

"In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: 'How shall the Messiah be called? Muhammad is his blessed name'. "

I don't get it, even Muslims don't believe Muhammad is the Messiah, they believe he was a prophet. These heretical documents have been around forever, they've been long rejected by true believers as they do not agree with the true gospel that we believe in. I don't know which one the Pope and his cronies are rushing to get their hands on a document that claims Jesus acknowledged Moha as the messiah?? If they like they can authenticate it, won't mean anything to me, b'cos my Christianity and that practiced by the Pope has never been in agreement anyways.

aribisala0:

Who are you guys?

I am not a muslim.!!!I asked you a simple question!
Obviously you have no answer and your response is to attack your "ENEMIES" the muslims
Well i am not one
Can you justify your claim

You claimed to be non muslim but you seem to enjoy attacking Christians especially on most muslims vs christians thread who are you trying to deceive?

In other words you do not have an answer to my question so stir up a quarrel or fight and you do not have to deal with the issues
Sorry I am not playing . I will ignore the fact that you are implying I am a liar and about nothing less than my faith or lack or religion.

Please answer the question I asked or simply admit you made a baseless claim.

I do not know what you mean by "attack" do you mean when I challenge you to justify claims you made?

Your claim about me turning up on Muslim Vs Christian Threads is a LIE

By all means prove me wrong

Answer the question!!!
You made the following claim which I challenged. You used the word RELIGIOUS which did NOT indicate christianity  so I had no interest in your religion.

THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID

BUT religious writings are either right or wrong not partly correct or partially wrong.




This is a profound assertion and rather than address it you call me a LIAR.

That is not a good advertisement for Christianity if that is what you follow.

My issue is I do not accept your claim is valid for ANY religious writing  christian or muslim so prove your claim and stop the insults

To be honest with you I'm not following this thread but few of the posts I read were yours, this coupled with some of your past posts make me to state my observation. I don't care whether you make any challenge neither am I ready to engage in fruitless challenge with anyone becos I have better things to do with my time.

If however, you enjoy this competition like debate about religion good luck to you - whatever rocks your boat mate

djon78:


why i so much believe in Jehovah the holy one of Israel, the  God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is because of this people and country they call the Jews and Israel. In the old testament God told the children of Israel that because of their sin he will scatter them abroad across the nations of the earth, but that latter he will bring them back. for more than two thousand years the Jews were scattered all over the world, when the Roman empire leveled the temple of Solomon and desolated Jerusalem. Even when they were dispersed across the world, anywhere they were they so much prospered very well, that was one of the reasons why Adolf Hitler was so envious of the Jews success in Europe and he initiated the holocaust. It was also seen how Nazis Germany confiscated art works and jewelries of Jews in Europe valued at trillions. But God brought his people Israel back in 1948 to establish the country of Israel. there is something special about the Jews, they control a large portion of the wealth in the world today, and many other things because of Gods blessings following as a result of Abraham the friend of God.

ROFLMAO HAHAHAHHAHAA

What a glowing tribute to the Jews.

Next time you meet a Jew, dont tell him youre a Christian. . . . Then ask him what he thinks about Jesus!

You guys need to read more.

tunnytox:

To be honest with you I'm not following this thread but few of the posts I read were yours, this coupled with some of your past posts make me to state my observation. I don't care whether you make any challenge neither am I ready to engage in fruitless challenge with anyone becos I have better things to do with my time.

If however, you enjoy this competition like debate about religion good luck to you - whatever rocks your boat mate 

You don't have to engage me.That is ok but
You implied I am being deceptive by denying I am a muslim?
In other words I am a Liar
I find that quite offensive

Second Your Claim that I turn up on Most Muslim Vs Christian Posts "ATTACKING" christians is false.

That is all.

What you do with your time is up to you.


I have done nothing to disrespect you even thought I gainsaid your view.That does not give you the right to insult me

aribisala0:

You don't have to engage me.That is ok but
You implied I am being deceptive by denying I am a muslim?
In other words I am a Liar
I find that quite offensive

Second Your Claim that I turn up on Most Muslim Vs Christian Posts "ATTACKING" christians is false.

That is all.

What you do with your time is up to you.


I have done nothing to disrespect you even thought I gainsaid your view.That does not give you the right to insult me

Never intend to insult you mate, I'm sorry for my wrong choice of words.

Allahu luamba lua lua this is great. Insha allah Mohammed jihad!

Even if jesus came down today to turn these so misled xtians to the right path, they would still not believe. If u re destined to fail, fail you must ;if u re destined to go astray, astray u must go and if u re destined for hell, then hell u must go, as all xtians surely will.

someone kindly fetch me a bucket of hot steaming liquid

yusuf01:

This will be my last post as regards this
But are you talking about someone he met when he was less than 10 years, the meeting which didn't last a day? He was able to cram 114 chapters in a meeting that didn't last a day? He was able to predict the future (surat Rum) just by this meeting with the so-called jew? And to make you argument a whole lot interesting, this meeting happened before he was 10,  Like Allah said in one of His verses, nothing will make you guys believe, you will continue to ask questions, you will continue to wander, still looking for excuses. Reason; Allah guides whom he wills, and for those that are misled, will be wandering until death comes. Just like the jews refused Jesus, the christians refused Mohammed.
The Qu'ran was compiled during the caliphate of Uthman Bin Affan (the 3rd Calliph), a result of what you have pointed out; 1, there were beginning to have new versions, due to the change in tongues and meanings. Just like an Ibadan guy will speak a different yoruba compared to a lagosian, different meanings were being given to it. And 2, just like you said, the sahabas who memorised the full Qur'anic texts were being murdered. The same arguments were presented to Uthman, and was advised to compile the full texts in a book so as to be a reference. Then, the copy present in Umm Samamah (one of the wives of the prophet) was the one used for compilation - the full meanings and tongue preserved. The other versions burnt and the compiled one distributed around, the same one we have today. Have you asked yourself; why is it that when you check 90 percent of the arabic Qur'an, on each page you find the same word, the same letter, throughout for the complete 114 chapters? Reason; to preserve the meanings, so that we won't have adulterated versions. BTW, the other 10 percent are different just for compression; to reduce them to pocket sized versions. Do you think when Allah was joking when He said He was the one that will protect the Qur'an? These are the methods of preservation, the same way we recite the Qur'an anytime we pray so that we continue to memorise it, someone can't recite Sura Fatiha another way, nobody will pray under such person. These are preservation methods. The Qur'an is the last revelation, and Allah has made it a duty upon Himself to protect it, it's not written by the companions - the way the Bible was written by companions, the Pauls, the Banabas, , NO. The Qur'an was revealed during the life of the last prophet, and revelations stopped after he died!

This claim that the Quran is the LAST revelation is it actually written in the Quran anywhere