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Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 10:32am On Feb 29, 2012
Martian:


Well,if someone says his peace and the so called viewpoints sound like Harry potter/ twilight magic of flying and going to other realms, I'll rather excuse myself. If you think it's intolerant, that's just your viewpoint.

Well i was the one who invited you here and not justcool? So you should abandon the thread based on my views, and not his, right?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 10:36am On Feb 29, 2012
http://www.scientology.org/

The story of Xenu is covered in OT III, part of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology" doctrines taught only to advanced members who have undergone many expensive hours of auditing and reached the state of Clear.[7][12] It is described in more detail in the accompanying confidential "Assists" lecture of October 3, 1968 and is dramatized in Revolt in the Stars (a screenplay written by L. Ron Hubbard in 1977).[7][22]
Hubbard wrote that Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy 75 million years ago, which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as "Teegeeack".[5][8][23] The planets were overpopulated, with an average population of 178 billion.[1][4][6] The Galactic Confederacy's civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens "walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute" and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those "circa 1950, 1960" on Earth.[24]
Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being: "the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn't".[21] When they had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][8] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously.[8] Only a few aliens' physical bodies survived. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars:
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 10:38am On Feb 29, 2012
Deep Sight:

Well i was the one who invited you here and not justcool? So you should abandon the thread based on my views, and not his, right?

I was hesitant to to begin with, but skimming stuff like that just sticks in my craw! Lol
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 10:51am On Feb 29, 2012
Uyi Iredia:

@ Deep Sight & Martian

First off: I don't believe in aliens or the possibility of aliens. To me, they are kids fairytales. I recall times as a young child when my Dad told me of UFO's and series like Alan Strange & The X Files made the concept more real to me. I'm past that. However, I think it's worthy to regard the depictions as reminiscent of the the active imaginations of men who foresaw the technologies that are presently ubiquitous. I'm very sure these civilizations helped lay the foundation that has taken modern humanity to its present state & this is why I hate it when some atheists imply that past civilizations had little scientific knowledge. I so doubt this. As a matter of fact I think such people would have been active thinkers because they didn't live in a society like ours which gives lots of room to complacency.

What phantom atheists are those. The ancients weren't ignorant by any stretch of the imagination BUT their scientific knowledge wasn't developed compared to what we know now. AND yes, they laid the foundation and knowledge has been accumulating since their days.

The "atheists" that can be said to be guilty of what you said are those who think "ancient aliens may have been gods who were performing dramas that the ancients were an unwilling part of". And the ones who think the past civilizations NEEDED to be taught stuff by ET, while ignoring the fact that they had the same mental capacity we have.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 11:08am On Feb 29, 2012
Another thing, if  advanced technology and scientific knowledge were known to the ancients, how come a simple polio vaccine had to be invented in 1952. How come they died of diseases like plagues and syphilis? How come civilizations that had access to alien technology and knowledge worshipped the freaking sun?

If we are to say that the ancients did have contact with ET smiley, then such contact would require the aliens to leave more evidence than the ones found on crazy shows.
I'll use your movie avatar as an example. One thing the movie got right is the movement of the American military and the corporations that support it. If they go somewhere, there will be evidence left that the Americans were there. Making contact with the natives requires groundwork and interpersonal interactions. Such interactions are prone to leave more evidence than mere figurines that are open to interpretation.
I would like to think that if aliens really came here and interacted with past civilizations, they would have left a mark. An indelible mark that would be clear to Stevie wonder. A civilization capable of interstellar travel would definitely leave their mark and that mark wouldn't be "two superimposed hieroglyphs that happen to look like a helicopter".
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by aletheia(m): 11:12am On Feb 29, 2012
justcool:

But by the way let me throw back your question to you. How did you know that Pluto exists when you haven't been there and there is no interaction between Pluto and earth in terms of visitations? Or would you ague that plutonians have visited the Earth?
^
grin grin grin
Pluto exists in this (according to you) seventh part of existence wherein we reside. . .so by your belief system it is accessible by us. Pluto is directly observable by telescopes and a man-made probe Voyager 1 has gone beyond Pluto's orbit and is currently approaching interstellar space so it is conceivable that with a fast enough propulsion system, men may reach Pluto.



Your thesis is inconsistent. You say existence is divided into seven more or less hermetically sealed parts with no possibility of interaction or exchange between these seven parts. How then did you know the other six parts exist? You more or less are stating the idea of the existence of parallel universes in other ways.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 11:19am On Feb 29, 2012
aletheia:

Did "Aliens" walk the earth in the past. I believe yes. . .by alien I understand them to not have been earth-born but fallen angels. Thus there remains in the memes of older pre-modern civilizations stories of departing otherworldly beings e.g. Quetzacoatl of the Aztecs and so on.

And Shiva of the Hindus caused the Big b@ng

You laughed at the guy talking about another realm but here you're saying some ancient god was a "earth born fallen angel". What realm did he fall from?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 11:49am On Feb 29, 2012
aletheia:

^
grin grin grin
Pluto exists in this (according to you) seventh part of existence wherein we reside. . .so by your belief system it is accessible by us. Pluto is directly observable by telescopes and a man-made probe Voyager 1 has gone beyond Pluto's orbit and is currently approaching interstellar space so it is conceivable that with a fast enough propulsion system, men may reach Pluto.

You are right here. Perhaps Justcool did not give a proper analogy, for Pluto is indeed accessible.



Your thesis is inconsistent. You say existence is divided into seven more or less hermetically sealed parts with no possibility of interaction or exchange between these seven parts. How then did you know the other six parts exist? You more or less are stating the idea of the existence of parallel universes in other ways.

However what he means is that the seven parts of the universe cannot be bridged physically, but can be observe from a higher non physical realm - a spiritual realm.

@ Justcool, if there is only one planet-world in each of the seven areas, does this mean that there are only seven planets bearing life and beings like the earth in the whole universe?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 12:03pm On Feb 29, 2012
Martian:

Another thing, if advanced technology and scientific knowledge were known to the ancients, how come a simple polio vaccine had to be invented in 1952. How come they died of diseases like plagues and syphilis?

O come now and be reasonable. Let us be clear -

1. It is not suggested that the ancients themselves had this technology necessarily. It is suggested that they may have seen such technology (such as aircraft) at some points in their history and recorded such as art

2. Thus your question on Polio and Syphilis is moot

3. However, even if the ancients were advanced, it would be unreasonable to expect that evidence of advancement must mean the capacity to treat every conceivable diesease. Heck, today mankind is quite advanced and yet manny dieseases defy treatment. Please let us not make unreasonable suppositions!

How come civilizations that had access to alien technology and knowledge worshipped the freaking sun?


And what is wrong with worshipping the sun? ? ? ? ? ? ? That is a matter of culture. Indians and many oriental people of today worship a great many concepts of gods and that doesn't take away their technological acumen.

Please these arguments of your fall very flat.

Now, to ensure that we avoid these sorts of wrong arguments, let me ask you some clear questions on your position so that I can address the thread better.

1. Is it your position that it is absolutely impossible for intelligent beings to exist or have existed outside the earth elsewhere in the universe?

2. Is it your position that No. 1 may be possible, but there has to be evidence first?

3. Is it your position that there has been absolutely NOTHING whatsoever by way of observation or evidence as to suggest that intelligent beings do exist and have existed outside the earth?

4. Is it your position that every single UFO sighting in history is a misconceived sighting?

5. Is it your position that the totality of ancient writings, artwork, monuments, etc ALL evince NOT A SINGLE REASON to legitimately open one's mind to the possibility of extra-terrestial visitations?

6. Is it your position that the concept of extra-terrestial visitation is inherently ridiculous and absurd and as such should at all times be discarded as delusional by reasonable people?

Please answer these, so I have a better idea as to how to approach the discussion.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by PastorKun(m): 12:53pm On Feb 29, 2012
^^^
I can see you have put on your attorney gloves grin
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 1:02pm On Feb 29, 2012
Deep Sight:

O come now and be reasonable. Let us be clear -

1. It is not suggested that the ancients themselves had this technology necessarily. It is suggested that they may have seen such technology (such as aircraft) at some points in their history and recorded such as art

Yeah, suggested by Von Daniken, you, plaetton, l Ron Hubbard, lumir janku etc.

Deep Sight:

2. Thus your question on Polio and Syphilis is moot
3. However, even if the ancients were advanced, it would be unreasonable to expect that evidence of advancement must mean the capacity to treat every conceivable diesease. Heck, today mankind is quite advanced and yet manny dieseases defy treatment. Please let us not make unreasonable suppositions!

Make suppositions. Who's being doing that all along with his "evidence" and "artwork" and "helicopter" hieroglyphs.
My point is, a treatable disease like polio would have been cured by a civilization advanced enough for flight. A civilization like that would certainly have other scientific advancements and what is the most important science to man than the first one. Medical " science". Logically if there is an advancement of that kind in flight technology, medical science would be just as advanced or close to it.
And you can't keep insisting the SAQUARRA BIRD is a model airplane when it's obviously a bird.  
Please let us not make unreasonable suppositions that a wooden bird is really a depiction of a plane. Please!
Deep Sight:

And what is wrong with worshipping the sun? ? ? ? ? ? ?  That is a matter of culture. Indians and many oriental people of today worship a great many concepts of gods and that doesn't take away their technological acumen.

What's wrong with worshipping the sun? How about because its nuclear fussion?
Matter of culture?
Please, tell me one advanced culture that's still worshipping nuclear fusion. One.
Indian and oriental people's current concept of god are more less the same as the rest of the world. Man made mythology.
My point is, a civilization that knows what nuclear fusion is doesn't worship the sun. Knowledge of nuclear fusion means the civilization isn't scientifically ignorant.

Deep Sight:

1. Is it your position that it is absolutely impossible for intelligent beings to exist or have existed outside the earth elsewhere in the universe?
2. Is it your position that No. 1 may be possible, but there has to be evidence first?
3. Is it your position that there has been absolutely NOTHING whatsoever by way of observation or evidence as to suggest that intelligent beings do exist and have existed outside the earth?
4. Is it your position that every single UFO sighting in history is a misconceived sighting?
5. Is it your position that the totality of ancient writings, artwork, monuments, etc ALL evince NOT A SINGLE REASON to legitimately open one's mind to the possibility of extra-terrestial visitations?
6. Is it your position that the concept of extra-terrestial visitation is inherently ridiculous and absurd and as such should at all times be discarded as delusional by reasonable people?
Please answer these, so I have a better idea as to how to approach the discussion.

I already answered question 1 on this thread. The vastness of the universe suggests that we are not alone in the universe. The elements necessary for life are everywhere in the universe because the same 92 elements are uniform toevery part of the observable universe. The form and shape that life takes is what is impossible to say because we only have our earth and its inhabitants to use as an example. That's why pandora looked like earth with blue cat/monkey people.
Number three is No. When we get evidence, it won't be because some economist who decided to write about ancient aliens said so. It will be because NASA made contact. We have the ISS doing guard duty up there, but they never see "UFOs" invading, do they. More people would be aware of the "hard evidence" and not some fans of "UFO hunters"
And you didn't answer my question. When was the last time people in Mile 2 or Ikeja saw a UFO. I mean the dark Nigerian nights without electricity would be perfect for UFO spotting but I've never seen Africans talk about UFOs. Are these aliens racists?

Number 4.  2012, we have iPads, iPhones, blackberries, video cameras, twitter, YouTube, instant messaging, live streaming and technology to dissect videos and pictures to tell real from photoshop.
I wish the aliens and UFOs would come back.

5) why introduce ETs. Have ETs been responsible for all the art work and technological advancements since you've been born. Is bill gates an alien, was tesla an alien?

6) Let me answer a question with a question. Is Dianetics inherently ridiculous and absurd?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 1:10pm On Feb 29, 2012
If aliens came, then the least I can say is it would be like will smith's independence day. EVERYBODY WILL KNOW!!
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by plaetton: 2:36pm On Feb 29, 2012
@martian:
I laugh. If you are expecting NASA, a very secretive private(?)govenrment Agency to let you know when they make contact with ET, then you must be watching too much fox news.

The Piri Ries map, copied from an unkwn source, clearly shows the  coastal outlines of Antarctica without the ice caps. This means that the map was probably drawn by airiel survelience  when there was no ice in Antarctica, before the last ice age 10,000 yrs ago. By whom?

I am shocked at your closemindedness. In the face of all the OOPARTS(Out Of Place Artifacts), all the monuments, all the written texts from virtually all cultures, you are unwilling to even consider (not necessarily accept), just to consider the possibility, that advanced races from other worlds may have been part of our history?
That seems to smack of extreme dogmatism and  what they call complex ignorance.

That the ancients understood scientific concepts did not mean that we should expect them to have  applied them in the same way that we do today. They only reason that we have access to technology today is because of the profit-based entreprenueral econmic system that we have today.
Scientific knowledge was seen as sacred and of a devine (ET) origin. So the  priests and wisemen, being the scientists of their era, hoarded and closesly gaurded their knowledge , and even at most times, died without passing such knowledge. And also, as we can see, such  knowledge comes to us in the form of  religious hymns and treatises.
The possible ET presence in human   history seems to put most of the enigmas of religion and human history in an entirely new persperctive. A refreshing one.

Somewhere in Genesis, it says that the earth was divided. It was not divided amonst humans. No . It was divided among the waring gods, Elohim, or ETs. Each god had its own clearly demarcated domain and people, and wars were fought when one god or his human subjects trespassed into the domain of another god. All the wars in the bible can now make sense if we imagine that these were proxies wars on behalf of the patron gods or ETs.
"Come let us creat man in our image and likeness" now makes a bit more sense. " Lo, the man has become like one of us,knowing good and evil" now makes more sense. "come let us go and destroy their tower and confound them" now makes a lot more sense. That "Abrtaham's father served other gods" maakes more sense. Psalms 82: "Jehovah sits in judgement at the assembly of the gods" now makes a lot of sense. that Jacob saw angels climbing a stir case to heaven  now makes a little sense. that Jehovah led the Isreralites by a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire in the night" now makes a little sense. That Jehovah took moses for a ride on an eagle's wing" now makes some sense.
In genesis, we also read that when the Glory (glory is an improvised word for word Kabod- which had no equivalence in any language) of the lord descended on the mountain, the mountain billowed in smoke and noise, as we would expect from a landing craft.
The ancients  , all over the world, were worshiping the same group of superior beings.
It is the only way that religion makes any sense.

Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by plaetton: 2:53pm On Feb 29, 2012
The summerian king's list has been ascertained to be historical. What is engmatic and makes historians skeptical about this list is the claims that by the sumerians that thier first rulers were gods who rules by incredicbly long periods before handing over kingship to The Demi-gods(half human/god offsprings) who also ruled for long periods, before finally giving kingship to humans where see a maked decrease in the years of rulership.

Take a look.

Sumerian King ListFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
The Sumerian King List is an ancient manuscript originally recorded in the Sumerian language, listing kings of Sumer (ancient southern Iraq) from Sumerian and neighboring dynasties, their supposed reign lengths, and the locations of "official" kingship. Kingship was believed to have been handed down by the gods, and could be transferred from one city to another, reflecting perceived hegemony in the region.[1] Throughout its Bronze Age existence, the document evolved into a political tool. Its final and single attested version, dating to the Middle Bronze Age, aimed to legitimize Isin's claims to hegemony when Isin was vying for dominance with Larsa and other neighboring city-states in southern Mesopotamia.[1][2]

Contents [hide]
1 Composition
1.1 Sources
2 The list
2.1 Antediluvian Rulers
2.2 First Dynasty of Kish
2.3 First Dynasty of Uruk
2.4 First dynasty of Ur
2.5 Dynasty of Awan
2.6 Second Dynasty of Kish
2.7 Dynasty of Hamazi
2.8 Second Dynasty of Uruk
2.9 Second Dynasty of Ur
2.10 Dynasty of Adab
2.11 Dynasty of Mari
2.12 Third Dynasty of Kish
2.13 Dynasty of Akshak
2.14 Fourth Dynasty of Kish
2.15 Third Dynasty of Uruk
2.16 Dynasty of Akkad
2.17 Fourth Dynasty of Uruk
2.18 Gutian rule
2.19 Fifth Dynasty of Uruk
2.20 Third Dynasty of Ur
2.21 Dynasty of Isin
3 See also
4 Notes
5 References


[edit] CompositionThe list blends prehistorical, presumably mythical predynastic rulers with implausibly lengthy reigns with later, more plausibly historical dynasties. Although the primal kings are historically unattested, this does not preclude their possible correspondence with historical rulers who were later mythicized. Some Assyriologists view the predynastic kings as a later fictional addition.[1][3] Only one ruler listed is known to be female: Kug-Bau "the (female) tavern-keeper", who alone accounts for the Third Dynasty of Kish. The earliest listed ruler whose historicity has been archaeologically verified is En-me-barage-si of Kish, ca. 2600 BC. Reference to this individual in the Epic of Gilgamesh has led to speculation that Gilgamesh himself may be historical. Three dynasties are notably excluded from the list: the Larsa dynasty, which vied for power with the (included) Isin dynasty during the Isin-Larsa period; and the two dynasties of Lagash, which respectively preceded and ensued the Akkadian Empire, when Lagash exercised considerable influence in the region. Lagash in particular is known directly from archaeological artifacts dating from ca. 2500 BC. The list is important to the chronology of the 3rd millennium BC. However, the fact that many of the dynasties listed reigned simultaneously from varying localities makes it difficult to reproduce a strict linear chronology.[1]

[edit] SourcesThe following extant ancient sources contain the Sumerian King List, or fragments:

WB 62
WB 444 (Weld-Blundell Prism) [4]
Kish Tablet (Scheil dynastic tablet)
UCBC 9-1819 ("California Tablet"wink
Dynastic Chronicle (ABC 18)[5]
K 11261+
K 12054
Babyloniaca (Berossus)
Apkullu-list (W.20030, 7)
The first two sources (WB) are a part of the "Weld-Blundell collection", donated by Herbert Weld Blundell to the Ashmolean Museum. WB 62 is a small clay tablet, inscribed only on the obverse, unearthed from Larsa. It is the oldest dated source (c. 2000 BC) containing the list.[6] WB 444 in contrast is a unique inscribed vertical prism,[1][7][8][9] dated c. 1817 BC, although some scholars prefer c. 1827 BC.[10] The Kish Tablet or Scheil dynastic tablet is an early 2nd millennium BC tablet which came into possession of Jean-Vincent Scheil; it only contains king list entries for four Sumerian cities.[11] UCBC 9-1819 is a clay tablet housed in the collection of the Museum of Anthropology at the University of California.[12] The tablet was inscribed during the reign of the Babylonian King Samsu-iluna, or slightly earlier, with a minimum date of 1712 BC.[13] The Dynastic Chronicle (ABC 18) is a Babylonian king list written on six columns, but contains entries for the antideluvian Sumerian rulers. K 11261+[14] is a tablet consisting of three joined Neo-Assyrian fragments which are copies of the Sumerian kings listed in the earlier Dynastic Chronicle (ABC 18).[15] K 12054 is another Neo-Assyrian fragment from Uruk (c. 640 BC) but contains a variant form of the antideluvians on the list. Various other fragments of the list have been discovered at Ashurbanipal. The later Babylonian and Assyrian king lists, preserved the earliest portions of the list well into the 3rd century BC, when Berossus' Babyloniaca popularized fragments of the list in the Hellenic world. In 1960, the Apkullu-list (Tablet No. W.20030, 7) or “Uruk List of Kings and Sages” (ULKS) was discovered by German archaeologists at an ancient temple at Uruk. The list, dating to c. 165 BC, contains a series of kings, equivalent to the Sumerian antediluvians called "Apkullu".[16]

[edit] The listEarly dates are approximate, and are based on available archaeological data; for most pre-Akkadian rulers listed, this king list is itself the lone source of information. Beginning with Lugal-zage-si and the Third Dynasty of Uruk (which was defeated by Sargon of Akkad), a better understanding of how subsequent rulers fit into the chronology of the ancient Near East can be deduced. The short chronology is used here.

None of the following predynastic "antediluvian" rulers have been verified via archaeological excavations, epigraphical inscriptions, or otherwise. It is possible that they correspond to the Early Bronze Age Jemdet Nasr period culture which ended approximately 2900 BC, immediately preceding the dynasts.[17] It is also possible that they were fictional creations to make the kingdom seem more legitimate and ancient to its subjects which would explain the exaggerated lifespans and recurring and composite characters that have overwhelming similarities with their predecessors.

[edit] Antediluvian RulersThe following reigns were measured in Sumerian numerical units known as sars (units of 3600), ners (units of 600), and sosses (units of 60).[18]

Ruler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
"After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years."
Alulim 8 sars (28,800 years) Between 35th and30th century BC
Alalngar 10 sars (36,000 years)
"Then Eridug fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira."
En-men-lu-ana 12 sars (43,200 years)
En-men-gal-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
Dumuzid, the Shepherd "the shepherd" 10 sars (36,000 years)
"Then Bad-tibira fell and the kingship was taken to Larag."
En-sipad-zid-ana 8 sars (28,800 years)
"Then Larag fell and the kingship was taken to Zimbir."
En-men-dur-ana 5 sars and 5 ners (21,000 years)
"Then Zimbir fell and the kingship was taken to Shuruppag."
Ubara-Tutu 5 sars and 1 ner (18,600 years)
"Then the flood swept over."
Excavations in Iraq have revealed evidence of localized flooding at Shuruppak (modern Tell Fara, Iraq) and various other Sumerian cities. A layer of riverine sediments, radiocarbon dated to ca. 2900 BC, interrupts the continuity of settlement, extending as far north as the city of Kish. Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period (3000-2900 BC) was discovered immediately below the Shuruppak flood stratum.[19]

[edit] First Dynasty of KishRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
"After the flood had swept over, and the kingship had descended from heaven, the kingship was in Kish."
Jushur 1200 years historicity uncertain names before Etana do not appear in any other known source, and their existence is archaeologically unverified
Kullassina-bel 960 years
Nangishlishma 670 years
En-tarah-ana 420 years
Babum 300 years
Puannum 840 years
Kalibum 960 years
Kalumum 840 years
Zuqaqip 900 years
Atab (or A-ba) 600 years
Mashda "the son of Atab" 840 years
Arwium "the son of Mashda" 720 years
Etana "the shepherd, who ascended to heaven and consolidated all the foreign countries" 1500 years
Balih "the son of Etana" 400 years
En-me-nuna 660 years
Melem-Kish "the son of En-me-nuna" 900 years
Barsal-nuna ("the son of En-me-nuna"wink* 1200 years
Zamug "the son of Barsal-nuna" 140 years
Tizqar "the son of Zamug" 305 years
Ilku 900 years
Iltasadum 1200 years
En-me-barage-si "who made the land of Elam submit" 900 years ca. 2600 BC the earliest ruler on the List confirmed independently from epigraphical evidence
Aga of Kish "the son of En-me-barage-si" 625 years ca. 2600 BC contemporary with Gilgamesh of Uruk, according to the Epic of Gilgamesh[20]
"Then Kish was defeated and the kingship was taken to E-ana."

[edit] First Dynasty of UrukRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Mesh-ki-ang-gasher of E-ana "the son of Utu" 324 years ca. 27th
"Mesh-ki-ang-gasher entered the sea and disappeared."
Enmerkar "the son of Mesh-ki-ang-gasher, the king of Unug, who built Unug (Uruk)" 420 years
Lugalbanda "the shepherd" 1200 years
Dumuzid (Dumuzi) "the fisherman whose city was Kuara."
("He captured En-me-barage-si single-handed."wink* 100 years ca. 2600 BC
Gilgamesh "whose father was a phantom (?), the lord of Kulaba" 126 years ca. 2600 BC contemporary with Aga of Kish, according to the Epic of Gilgamesh[20]
Ur-Nungal "the son of Gilgamesh" 30 years
Udul-kalama "the son of Ur-Nungal" 15 years
La-ba'shum 9 years
En-nun-tarah-ana 8 years
Mesh-he "the smith" 36 years
Melem-ana 6 years
Lugal-kitun 36 years
"Then Unug was defeated and the kingship was taken to Urim (Ur)."

[edit] First dynasty of UrRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Mesh-Ane-pada 80 years ca. 26th century BC
Mesh-ki-ang-Nanna "the son of Mesh-Ane-pada" 36 years
Elulu 25 years
Balulu 36 years
"Then Urim was defeated and the kingship was taken to Awan."

[edit] Dynasty of AwanRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Three kings of Awan 356 years ca. 26th century BC
"Then Awan was defeated and the kingship was taken to Kish."

[edit] Second Dynasty of KishRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Susuda "the fuller" 201 years ca. 26th century BC
Dadasig 81 years
Mamagal "the boatman" 360 years
Kalbum "the son of Mamagal" 195 years
Tuge 360 years
Men-nuna "the son of Tuge" 180 years
(Enbi-Ishtar) 290 years
Lugalngu 360 years
"Then Kish was defeated and the kingship was taken to Hamazi."

The First Dynasty of Lagash (ca. 2500 – ca. 2271 BC) is not mentioned in the King List, though it is well known from inscriptions

[edit] Dynasty of HamaziRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Hadanish 360 years ca. 2500 BC
"Then Hamazi was defeated and the kingship was taken to Unug (Uruk)."

[edit] Second Dynasty of UrukRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
En-shag-kush-ana 60 years ca. 25th century BC said to have conquered parts of Sumer; then Eannatum of Lagash claims to have taken over Sumer, Kish, and all Mesopotamia.
Lugal-kinishe-dudu or Lugal-ure 120 years contemporary with Entemena of Lagash
Argandea 7 years
"Then Unug was defeated and the kingship was taken to Urim (Ur)."

[edit] Second Dynasty of UrRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Nanni 120 years ca. 25th century BC
Mesh-ki-ang-Nanna II "the son of Nanni" 48 years
(?) 2 years
"Then Urim was defeated and the kingship was taken to Adab."

[edit] Dynasty of AdabRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Lugal-Ane-mundu 90 years ca. 25th century BC said to have conquered all Mesopotamia from the Persian Gulf to the Zagros Mountains and Elam
"Then Adab was defeated and the kingship was taken to Mari."

[edit] Dynasty of MariRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Anbu 30 years ca. 25th century BC
Anba "the son of Anbu" 17 years
Bazi "the leatherworker" 30 years
Zizi of Mari "the fuller" 20 years
Limer "the 'gudug' priest" 30 years
Sharrum-iter 9 years
"Then Mari was defeated and the kingship was taken to Kish."

[edit] Third Dynasty of KishRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Kug-Bau (Kubaba) "the woman tavern-keeper, who made firm the foundations of Kish" 100 years ca. 25th century BC the only known woman in the King List; said to have gained independence from En-anna-tum I of Lagash and En-shag-kush-ana of Uruk; contemporary with Puzur-Nirah of Akshak, according to the later Chronicle of the É-sagila
"Then Kish was defeated and the kingship was taken to Akshak."

[edit] Dynasty of AkshakRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Unzi 30 years ca. 25th – 24th century BC
Undalulu 6 years
Urur 6 years
Puzur-Nirah 20 years contemporary with Kug-Bau of Kish, according to the later Chronicle of É-sagila
Ishu-Il 24 years
Shu-Suen of Akshak "the son of Ishu-Il" 7 years
"Then Akshak was defeated and the kingship was taken to Kish."

[edit] Fourth Dynasty of KishRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Puzur-Suen "the son of Kug-Bau" 25 years ca. 24th – 23rd century BC
Ur-Zababa "the son of Puzur-Suen" 400 (6?) years ca. 2300 BC according to the king list, Sargon of Akkad was his cup-bearer
Zimudar 30 years
Usi-watar "the son of Zimudar" 7 years
Eshtar-muti 11 years
Ishme-Shamash 11 years
(Shu-ilishu)* (15 years)*
Nanniya "the jeweller" 7 years ca. 2303-2296 BC (short)
"Then Kish was defeated and the kingship was taken to Unug (Uruk)."

[edit] Third Dynasty of UrukRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Lugal-zage-si 25 years ca. 2296–2271 BC (short) said to have defeated Urukagina of Lagash, as well as Kish and other Sumerian cities, creating a unified kingdom; he in turn was overthrown by Sargon of Akkad
"Then Unug was defeated and the kingship was taken to Agade (Akkad)"




[edit] Dynasty of AkkadRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Sargon of Akkad "whose father was a gardener, the cupbearer of Ur-Zababa, became king, the king of Agade, who built Agade" 40 years ca. 2270–2215 BC (short) defeated Lugal-zage-si of Uruk, took over Sumer, and created the Akkadian Empire
Rimush of Akkad "the son of Sargon" 9 years ca. 2214–2206 BC (short)
Man-ishtishu "the older brother of Rimush, the son of Sargon" 15 years ca. 2205–2191 BC (short)
Naram-Sin of Akkad "the son of Man-ishtishu" 56 years ca. 2190–2154 BC (short)
Shar-kali-sharri "the son of Naram-Sin" 25 years ca. 2153–2129 BC (short)
"Then who was king? Who was the king?"
Irgigi
Imi
Nanum
Ilulu
"and the 4 of them ruled for only 3 years" ca. 2128–2125 BC (short)
Dudu of Akkad 21 years ca. 2125–2104 BC (short)
Shu-Durul "the son of Dudu" 15 years ca. 2104–2083 BC (short) Akkad falls to the Gutians
"Then Agade was defeated and the kingship was taken to Unug (Uruk)."

[edit] Fourth Dynasty of Uruk(Possibly rulers of lower Mesopotamia contemporary with the Dynasty of Akkad)
Ruler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Ur-ningin 7 years ca. 2091? – 2061? BC (short)
Ur-gigir "the son of Ur-ningin" 6 years
Kuda 6 years
Puzur-ili 5 years
Ur-Utu (or Lugal-melem) ("the son of Ur-gigir"wink* 25 years
"Unug was defeated and the kingship was taken to the army of Gutium."

The 2nd Dynasty of Lagash (before ca. 2093–2046 BC (short)) is not mentioned in the King List, though it is well known from inscriptions.

[edit] Gutian ruleRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
"In the army of Gutium, at first no king was famous; they were their own kings and ruled thus for 3 years."
Inkishush 6 years ca. 2147–2050 BC (short)
Zarlagab 6 years
Shulme (or Yarlagash) 6 years
Silulumesh (or Silulu) 6 years
Inimabakesh (or Duga) 5 years
Igeshaush (or Ilu-An) 6 years
Yarlagab 3 years
Ibate of Gutium 3 years
Yarla (or Yarlangab) 3 years
Kurum 1 year
Apilkin 3 years
La-erabum 2 years mace head inscription
Irarum 2 years
Ibranum 1 year
Hablum 2 years
Puzur-Suen "the son of Hablum" 7 years
Yarlaganda 7 years foundation inscription at Umma
(?) 7 years Si-um or Si-u? — foundation inscription at Umma
Tirigan 40 days defeated by Utu-hengal of Uruk
"Then the army of Gutium was defeated and the kingship taken to Unug (Uruk)."

[edit] Fifth Dynasty of UrukRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Utu-hengal conflicting dates (427 years / 26 years / 7 years) ca. 2055–2048 BC (short) defeats Tirigan and the Gutians, appoints Ur-Namma governor of Ur
"Then Unug was defeated and the kingship was taken to Urim (Ur)."

[edit] Third Dynasty of UrRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Ur-Namma (Ur-Nammu) 18 years ca. 2047–2030 BC (short) defeats Nammahani of Lagash; contemporary of Utu-hengal of Uruk
Shulgi "the son of Ur-Namma" 46 years ca. 2029–1982 BC (short) possible lunar/solar eclipse 2005 BC
Amar-Suena "the son of Shulgi" 9 years ca. 1981–1973 BC (short)
Shu-Suen "the son of Amar-Suena" 9 years ca. 1972–1964 BC (short)
Ibbi-Suen "the son of Shu-Suen" 24 years ca. 1963–1940 BC (short)
"Then Urim was defeated. The very foundation of Sumer was torn out. The kingship was taken to Isin."

Independent Amorite states in lower Mesopotamia. The Dynasty of Larsa (ca. 1961–1674 BC (short)) from this period is not mentioned in the King List.

[edit] Dynasty of IsinRuler Epithet Length of reign Approx. dates Comments
Ishbi-Erra 33 years ca. 1953–1730 BC (short) contemporary of Ibbi-Suen of Ur
Shu-Ilishu "the son of Ishbi-Erra" 20 years
Iddin-Dagan "the son of Shu-ilishu" 20 years
Ishme-Dagan "the son of Iddin-Dagan" 20 years
Lipit-Eshtar "the son of Ishme-Dagan (or Iddin-Dagan)" 11 years contemporary of Gungunum of Larsa
Ur-Ninurta ("the son of Ishkur, may he have years of abundance, a good reign, and a sweet life"wink* 28 years Contemporary of Abisare of Larsa
Bur-Suen "the son of Ur-Ninurta" 21 years
Lipit-Enlil "the son of Bur-Suen" 5 years
Erra-imitti 8 years
Enlil-bani 24 years contemporary of Sumu-la-El of Babylon. During his reign, the king's gardener, to celebrate the New Year was named 'king for a day' then sacrificed, the "king" died during the celebration; Enlil-Bani remained on the throne.
Zambiya 3 years contemporary of Sin-Iqisham of Larsa
Iter-pisha 4 years
Ur-du-kuga 4 years
Suen-magir 11 years
(Damiq-ilishu)* ("the son of Suen-magir"wink* (23 years)*

* These epithets or names are not included in all versions of the king list.

[edit] See also Ancient
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 3:10pm On Feb 29, 2012
plaetton:


Somewhere in Genesis, it says that the earth was divided. It was not divided amonst humans. No . It was divided among the waring gods, Elohim, or ETs. Each god had its own clearly demarcated domain and people, and wars were fought when one god or his human subjects trespassed into the domain of another god. All the wars in the bible can now make sense if we imagine that these were proxies wars on behalf of the patron gods or ETs.
"Come let us creat man in our image and likeness" now makes a bit more sense. " Lo, the man has become like one of us,knowing good and evil" now makes more sense. "come let us go and destroy their tower and confound them" now makes a lot more sense. That "Abrtaham's father served other gods" maakes more sense. Psalms 82: "Jehovah sits in judgement at the assembly of the gods" now makes a lot of sense. that Jacob saw angels climbing a stir case to heaven now makes a little sense. that Jehovah led the Isreralites by a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire in the night" now makes a little sense. That Jehovah took moses for a ride on an eagle's wing" now makes some sense.
In genesis, we also read that when the Glory (glory is an improvised word for word Kabod- which had no equivalence in any language) of the lord descended on the mountain, the mountain billowed in smoke and noise, as we would expect from a landing craft.
The ancients , all over the world, were worshiping the same group of superior beings.
It is the only way that religion makes any sense.

GBAM, GBAM, GBAMMEST! ! !
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 3:36pm On Feb 29, 2012
And can anyone observe the size of this stone in relation to the man standing on it? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

And this is the size of stone that ancients would not onlt cut, but move about and even lift high into pyramids abi?

Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by justcool(m): 3:57pm On Feb 29, 2012
@aletheia and Deepsight

aletheia:

^
grin grin grin
Pluto exists in this (according to you) seventh part of existence wherein we reside. . .so by your belief system it is accessible by us. Pluto is directly observable by telescopes and a man-made probe Voyager 1 has gone beyond Pluto's orbit and is currently approaching interstellar space so it is conceivable that with a fast enough propulsion system, men may reach Pluto.



You confirm Pluto’s existence based on observation and not based on the fact that Plutonians visited the earth. Your argument was that if it is impossible to transverse from one part to the other, how did I know about the existence of those other parts.

Here is what you wrote that triggered my Pluto analogy:
Err. . .just one question: if it is impossible to traverse from one part to the other and there is no interaction as you say, how did you know that the other six parts exist?

You can know something by observation and not only through visitation. You believe in Pluto’s existence basses on the observations made by scientists through physical instruments—telescopes and etc. People have also observed other parts of the physical realm through spiritual means.

aletheia:

Your thesis is inconsistent. You say existence is divided into seven more or less hermetically sealed parts with no possibility of interaction or exchange between these seven parts. How then did you know the other six parts exist? You more or less are stating the idea of the existence of parallel universes in other ways.  

First, my friend, I say this to you in all friendliness, please try to read my posts first before attributing things that I never said to me. I never said existence is divided into seven parts. I said that the [/] physical realm[/i] is divided into seven parts.
Secondly. I never said that there is no possibility of interaction or exchange. The whole creation, from the spiritual realm to the physical, interact with each other. The seven parts of the physical realm interact with each other too because they belong to a part of the same system—creation.  Here is what I wrote “But it is impossible for any life form to go from one of the seven parts of the physical ream to another. The distance is unimaginable to the human mind. Hence no living thing or creature has ever been able to make it from one of the other six parts of the physical realm to the earth.” What I meant is that it is impossible to physically transverse or travel from one part of the seven parts of the physical realm to another.

grin grin grin

Thanks


@Deepsight
Deep Sight:

You are right here. Perhaps Justcool did not give a proper analogy, for Pluto is indeed accessible.

My analogy was meant to show that you don’t need visitation to know that something exists. And my analogy completely fulfilled its purpose. You have never been to Pluto, neither has Plutonians ever been to the earth. You only know about its existence through observation or through some other means but not through physically going there or having someone visit you from there. No living thing has been able to make it from the Earth to Pluto and vice-verse.

Deep Sight:

However what he means is that the seven parts of the universe cannot be bridged physically, but can be observe from a higher non physical realm - a spiritual realm.

Thanks for this explanation. You captured what I meant here.

Deep Sight:

@ Justcool, if there is only one planet-world in each of the seven areas, does this mean that there are only seven planets bearing life and beings like the earth in the whole universe?

There are many plants in the countless solar systems that make up the different parts or galaxies of the physical realm. I use countless metaphoricaly; the entire physical universe is actuallly finite. However in each part of the seven parts of the physical realm, there is a solar system that has a planet harboring life.

So there are only seven planets bearing physical life and physical beings like the earth in the whole physical realm or physical universe.

However each of these planets, solar systems and galaxies are filled with elemental beings, or nature beings working on the evolution and dissolution of the planets. Each planet as well as each solar system and each galaxy has an elemental being as a guardian, like I already explained in my earlier post.

It was these seven parts of the physical realm that was referred to in the Revelation of John as the seven churches in Asia. The name of the part to which the earth belongs is Ephesus; interestingly, the seven churches in Asia bear names that correspond to the seven parts of the physical realm.
I explained this in this thread; http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-507992.0.html


Thanks
[quote][/quote]
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by plaetton: 4:22pm On Feb 29, 2012
The Egyptian Kings List, just like the Summerian Kings Lists, highlite an distant era when gods ruled their land long before the reign of earthly kings.


Legendary periodIn the texts of the Palermo, Turin and Manetho king lists, there are different versions of names of eight god kings that ruled Egypt in the beginning.[3]

Turin King List Manetho
(Egyptian equivalent) Function
Ptah Hephaistos
(Ptah) Craftsmen
Ra Helios
(Ra) Sun
- Sosis or Agathosdaimon (perhaps Sothis?)
(Shu) Air
Geb Kronos
(Geb) Earth
Osiris Osiris Afterlife
Set Typhon
(Set) Evil
Horus Horus War
Thoth Knowledge
Ma'at Order

These god kings are followed by differing sets of semi-divine rulers.

Turin King List Length Manetho Length
Second dynasty of gods unknown Dynasty of Halfgods unknown
3 Achu-Dynasties unknown 30 Kings from Memphis 1790 years
Dynasty of Disciples of Horus unknown 10 Kings from This 350 years
- wikipaedia
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 4:32pm On Feb 29, 2012
Deep Sight:

GBAM, GBAM, GBAMMEST! ! !
plaetton:

@martian:
I laugh. If you are expecting NASA, a very secretive private(?)govenrment Agency to let you know when they make contact with ET, then you must be watching too much fox news.

Lmao, first of all. NASA is not a  "secretive private(?) government agency. It's a a government agency subject to congressional oversight. Let me explain that to you. Lol
That means NASA have to go in front of congress to justify the money they receive and why and what they spend the money on. Okay? The discovery of ET will not be a secret because they would want the critical taxpayer to know that they do is important. Discovery of ET wouldn't pose a national threat, so why would they hide it. If it posed a threat, then we'll all be pulverized by the aliens anyway. If any of us sounds like a fox news viewer it's you.  Ignorant and incredulous. You fit the bill of OReilly's core audience. I would ask about OOPART and the piri ries map but my brain is starting to complain.

Then you post a list of Sumerian kings.for what? Gilgamesh being a historical figure doesn't he mean he really was a demi god who really did the deeds in the Gilgamesh epic!! Lol, but I bet you think the Gilgamesh epic is real. This is beyond ridiculous now.

Anyway, i dontexpect much from you, after Zechariah Sitchin is credible to you. Rube.

plaetton:

Somewhere in Genesis, it says that the earth was divided. It was not divided amonst humans. No . It was divided among the waring gods, Elohim, or ETs. Each god had its own clearly demarcated domain and people, and wars were fought when one god or his human subjects trespassed into the domain of another god. All the wars in the bible can now make sense if we imagine that these were proxies wars on behalf of the patron gods or ETs.
"Come let us creat man in our image and likeness" now makes a bit more sense. " Lo, the man has become like one of us,knowing good and evil" now makes more sense. "come let us go and destroy their tower and confound them" now makes a lot more sense. That "Abrtaham's father served other gods" maakes more sense. Psalms 82: "Jehovah sits in judgement at the assembly of the gods" now makes a lot of sense. that Jacob saw angels climbing a stir case to heaven  now makes a little sense. that Jehovah led the Isreralites by a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire in the night" now makes a little sense. That Jehovah took moses for a ride on an eagle's wing" now makes some sense.
In genesis, we also read that when the Glory (glory is an improvised word for word Kabod- which had no equivalence in any language) of the lord descended on the mountain, the mountain billowed in smoke and noise, as we would expect from a landing craft.
The ancients  , all over the world, were worshiping the same group of superior beings.
It is the only way that religion makes any sense.


This crap is what you're gbaming about? The irony!!

One is an "atheist"' the other is "not a Christian" and here they are using judeo Christian mythology to justify made up stories they found on shows like ancient aliens and UFO hunters.

Make sure both of  y'all take pictures of UFOs when th FINALLY go to Nigeria, since y'all couldn't answer if they've come to Africa lately.

Aliens created the internet . Bye.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by Martian(m): 4:35pm On Feb 29, 2012
I'll stick to real life, common sense, science, logic and rationality. Y'all can keep watching and believing shows that a teenager who's exposed enough will laugh at with all the pseudoscience, pseudo history and brain dead entertainment value they put into it.
Since y'all like ancient aliens so much, they also have older shows about Nostradamus. Lol
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by mantraa: 5:44pm On Feb 29, 2012
This discussion is craaaaaaazy. How can aliens travel faster than light to get here and then use helicopters to travel around. And not leave behind any advanced tools or materials, Or accurate maps of the earth or solar system or anything else that an ancient civilisation couldnt make themselves? think about it.

We should not underestimate the craftmanship of the ancient civilisations. They didn't need or get any help from 'aliens' or 'supernatural gods'. With enough time, willpower, manpower, and hundreds of powerful afican animals at their disposal they acheived some great things all on their own and should be respected for that.

If one of the ancient tombs was opened and just one piece of advanced machinery, or material was found in it then that would be real evidence.

Some people even believe that the ancient egyptians had electric light bulbs. I wonder if they Know how a light bulb is made and the processed materials, mathematical formulas, scientific equations, vacuum generators, high resistance filaments. current flow, voltage generators,  And the  manufacture of copper cable and insulation material etc etc

I agree with the 'Martian'  grin
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by vescucci(m): 5:58pm On Feb 29, 2012
Deep Sight:

Andromeda is not a star. It is a galaxy.

Within our galaxy alone, there are hundreds of billions of stars.

Our sun is just one star. What makes you think that there are no life bearing planets amongst all the other 200 - 400 billion stars in this galaxy of ours.

Actually, research has already started to identify planets with life bearing potential.

Kepler spacecraft of NASA which searches for new planets has found an alien world in a habitable zone of star which can allow for life and water

The Kepler also discovered 1000 new planets, bringing the count of discovered planets outside our solar system to 2326 found using this spacecraft. This number has been achieved in 16 months of operation by this spacecraft.

The newly discovered planet has a star which it orbits around like our earth orbits around sun. It is 600 light years away from earth and located in region called Kepler 22-b. It has a radius 2.4 times bigger than that of earth. The temperature on this planet is pretty much same as that on earth, making it a place able to support life.


http://www.scientiaweb.com/2011/12/06/nasa-finds-a-new-planet-capable-of-supporting-life/

I think I would be a most limited mind, to close myself to the possibility.

Oh yeah, a galaxy it is. My bad. In any case, I have forgotten the closest star to us and how far away it is but I'm sure it's pretty far away. Lemme find that out first. Why do we think 'aliens' would wanna remain anonymous and not say enslave all of us and take our land? Instead, they turn our planet into their tiny covertly overt museum?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by vescucci(m): 6:12pm On Feb 29, 2012
Ok, as far as I've seen, the closest star to us is more than 4 light years away. In that case, it is very likely advanced beings could have found us out. Then they use their awesome space crafts that can move close to, as fast as, or faster than light to get here. These space crafts probably are multipurpose utility vehicles so they double as helis and gliders and what have you. Then they get here. Decide to scribble some fancy lines for their amusement. One of the alien kids decides to make the stone henge for show and tell but forget she can't take it back with her. And all the other things we've seen as conclusive proof of aliens' existence.

I almost certainly believe it is very improbable that there's no life anywhere else. I think it scientifically and statistically senseless if you're gonna be scientific about things. If you're gonna be religious about things, we may be the centre of the universe. There's an irony in there somewhere. All I'm saying is, I don't think aliens have visited earth. And if they have, I don't think it'll be a matter for debate as it would be beyond a doubt.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by vescucci(m): 6:13pm On Feb 29, 2012
Sadly, I don't think I have much sense to contribute to this thread but I'll read the posts you fine gentlemen post. And I'll DEFINITELY skip some other posts. Gawd!
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by InesQor(m): 2:30pm On Mar 01, 2012
Aliens may or may not exist; but even if they do I don't believe we can interact with them experientially; any more than a character in a movie can interact with a character in another movie.

IF they exist: they may mention us, we may mention them, and we may both discuss common topics. But I don't believe we will ever see them or interact with them. And I doubt we ever did.

For now that's my contribution to the speculations on the thread.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 2:45pm On Mar 01, 2012
InesQor:

Aliens may or may not exist; but even if they do I don't believe we can interact with them experientially; any more than a character in a movie can interact with a character in another movie.

This would suggest different realities, whereas the very concept of aliens ab initio envisions beings in the same physical universe. As such, this is a contradictory position akin to those of your mavenbox days.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by EasyG(m): 2:47pm On Mar 01, 2012
There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that humans do not exist alone in this universe, but I do not believe any aliens visited Earth in the past. I think the ancient civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria had survivors who interacted with the more backward civilizations in those days, teaching the Egyptians scientific methods that enabled them build the pyramids, and naturally they were regarded as gods by the more primitive civilizations.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by InesQor(m): 2:56pm On Mar 01, 2012
Deep Sight:

This would suggest different realities, whereas the very concept of aliens ab initio envisions beings in the same physical universe. As such, this is a contradictory position
Not everything in the same physical universe can interact with one another. If we think out of the box, a common example is that of opposite sides of a cube. And yet another one is the possibility of multi-dimensions / planes, within the same physical domain.

Deep Sight:

akin to those of your mavenbox days.
I guess I must have really needed this reminder for the sake of participating in the discussion or understanding this thread. You obviously have a staggeringly good memory.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 3:04pm On Mar 01, 2012
InesQor:

Not everything in the same physical universe can interact with one another. If we think out of the box, a common example is that of opposite sides of a cube. And yet another one is the possibility of multi-dimensions / planes, within the same physical domain.

Ok, good point. But what I mean is that when you speak about an alien, you are talking about a being not in his own dimension already. A being in his own dimension is not an alien - he is at home. A Nigerian in Nigeria is not an alien. A Nigerian in New York could be an alien. So once you use the word "alien" you are already referring to one in a domain not his. Hope you get my drift. But anyway, I must say I do get your point, and it is well taken. Justcool would certainly agree with you. I guess I am being tediously word-sensitive.

I guess I must have really needed this reminder for the sake of participating in the discussion or understanding this thread. You obviously have a staggeringly good memory.

Hahhaha. Abeg no vex o, that was just a joke to tease you? Friends still?
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by InesQor(m): 4:02pm On Mar 01, 2012
Deep Sight:

Ok, good point. But what I mean is that when you speak about an alien, you are talking about a being not in his own dimension already. A being in his own dimension is not an alien - he is at home.

Does this make (say it exists) a Venusian at home on Earth, since it is the same (physical) dimension on Earth as it is, spatially speaking, on Venus?

Deep Sight:

A Nigerian in Nigeria is not an alien. A Nigerian in New York could be an alien. So once you use the word "alien" you are already referring to one in a domain not his.

I think your definition of alien is too narrowing, if you refer to domains only. The Nigerian in New York is an alien only because it is a hitherto unknown experience.

So with my initial post, I can say one who has a differing experience and essence from yours, is an alien. So in attempts (or not) to interact with them (or not), you cannot HAVE that experience [/i]or [i]essence [/i]so you're alien to them, if they exist; and vice versa.

I'd define Alien as "not sharing the same [i]essential nature
or substantive experience with". And I think this definition works for an Englishman in New York, Sting on Jupiter, and a Martian on Nairaland.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by DeepSight(m): 5:37pm On Mar 01, 2012
^^ You are entirely correct. I withdraw that comment of mine. Thanks.
Re: Martian/ Plaetton - Let's Discuss Ancient Aliens by vescucci(m): 6:57pm On Mar 01, 2012
InesQor:

I'd define Alien as "not sharing the same essential nature or substantive experience with". And I think this definition works for an Englishman in New York, Sting on Jupiter, and a Martian on Nairaland.

Hehehe

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