Jenwitemi:

What has conspiracy theories got to do with this topic, mazaye?

Martian:

Can we please leave these "ufo, alien," etc shows out of it? There is a show called "Finding BigFoot", are we now to start discussing big foot? what about the lochness monster?

mazaje:

Many things Jenwitedem. . . .

diluminati:

Arguing with Martian is like hitting your head against a rock until blood gushes out!

Martian:

He is the source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara_Bird
Messiha built a model of the Saqqara Bird to test for its aerodynamic efficiency. His model was six times larger than the dimensions of the original in an attempt to maintain its proportional aerodynamic efficiency,[7] and was given a horizontal tailplane to act as a stabilizer, which Messiha believed is a missing part of the original model. Messiha insisted that he was able to make his model fly.[8]

In an attempt to discover whether claims of aerodynamic properties of the Saqqara Bird were correct, Martin Gregorie, a builder and designer of free flight gliders, built a replica of the Saqqara Bird made of balsa wood. After testing this replica, Gregorie concluded: "the Saqqara Bird never flew. It is totally unstable without a tailplane…Even after a tailplane was fitted the glide performance was disappointing."[9] He added: "the Saqqara Bird was probably made as a child's toy or a weather vane."[9]

Who is Lumir G Janku? Notice how he took the picture of the "wooden aircraft" from the back? This source is therefore unreliable and dishonest so he is going to see ancient astronauts in everything.

diluminati:

Arguing with Martian is like hitting your head against a rock until blood gushes out!

Deep Sight:

Hey Martisn

No, I did not cite him as a source Martian. Yes, he wrote that book, but this is the exact quote -

The idea first gained widespread exposure with the 1968 publication of Chariots of the Gods by Erich von Däniken, but the concept has been around since the middle of the 19th century.

Deep Sight:

Now I must seize this spot to say something about the idea of ridiculing people for making these suggestions. Ridicule is a frail thing. Many times in history the ridiculed ones have with time turned out to be the ones who had far sighted vision with their much ridiculed ideas. This is the context in which i mentioned Corpernicus and Galileo. You countered by saying that those gentlemen used science - agreed - but what is being used here? Is there not science at play? Is Archaelogy not a science? How do we unearth these artefacts if not with archaelogy? The dating methods deployed in studying the age of these artefacts, the various experiments conducted on them - are all these not sciences?

Deep Sight:

Look, we should simply express disagreement where we disagree and advance reasons therefore, and not seek to ridicule those of a different, albeit more imaginative point of view. Particularly in this case where there is a vast amount of material to suggest that such ideas are not entirely looney.
The fact is that there have been different tests. The tests I saw reported great results. Its not entirely impossible that some conduct better replica tests than others.
In answer to your question about the back / face of the artefact, I would ask you to note carefully that that is the only way an ancient man will see such a craft - as a bird or some such - and may potray it as such. But what betrays the fact that it was not a bird was the fact that it had ridges for tail rudders. No matter - I promised you that if you dispute any pictures I will leave them. So what say you about this one - I noticed you failed to comment on it, is it also a bird? -

Pastor Kun:

@ Jenwitemi
Thanx I have already googled it, perhaps Martian would be able to give us a 'rational' explaination as to how the ancients cut with precision and moved over large distances stone blocks weighing hundreds of tonnes.

Pastor Kun:

Why should we leave the programme out of it? Is it not relevant to the topic? Asides they are reporting/ investigating real life events witnessed by thousands of people. The phoenix UFO case was reported by Fox news and CNN when it happened, witnessed by thousands including the state governor are we to dismiss all the credible reports we get just becos someone decides to do a 'show' on the subject matter?

Deep Sight:

Here is an extracted analysis of the Wooden airplane sculpture found in Egypt -

By Lumir G. Janku

"This object (shown in sketch) was found in 1898 in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt and was later dated as having been created near 200 BCE. As airplanes were unknown in the days when it was found, it was thrown into a box marked "wooden bird model" and then stored in the basement of the Cairo museum.

It was rediscovered by Dr. Khalil Messiha, who studied models made by ancients. The "discovery" was considered so important by the Egyptian government that a special committee of leading scientists was established to study the object.

As a result of their findings, a special exhibit was set up in the center hall of the Cairo museum, with the little model as its centerpiece. It was even labelled as a model airplane. 

To elucidate the reasons for the decision of the committee, almost unprecedented in the field of archeology, let's consider some aspects of the model. The model has the exact proportions of a very advanced form of "pusher-glider" that is still having "some bugs ironed out". This type of glider will stay in the air almost by itself—even a very small engine will keep it going at low speeds, as low as 45 to 65 mph., while it can carry an enormous payload. This ability is dependent on the curious shape of wings and their proportions. The tipping of wings downward, a reversedihedral wing as it is called, is the feature behind this capability. A similar type of curving wings are implemented on the Concorde airplane, giving the plane a maximum lift without detracting from its speed.

In that context, it seems rather incredible that someone, more than 2,000 years ago, for any reason, devised a model of a flying device with such advanced features, requiring quite extensive knowledge of aerodynamics. There were no such things as airplanes in these times, we are told by archeologists and historians. But this case seems to be an exception, living in the midst of the rather unimaginative and rigid paradigm of contemporary science. It is also necessary to point out that Egyptians are known to have nearly always made scale-models of projects and objects which they planned to create or build."

plaetton:

This heiroglyph is etched in a temple in abydos. Did the egyptians travel to the future to glimpse these machines or dod we travel to the past to etch these crafts on an egyptian temple? or, dod the witness these craft in thier time?

vescucci:

I was reading through the thread and suddenly got very tired after the first dozen posts or so.

plaetton:

This heiroglyph is etched in a temple in abydos. Did the egyptians travel to the future to glimpse these machines or did we travel to the past to etche these crafts on an egyptian temple? or, did they witness these crafts in thier time?

vescucci:

Lol. The eye sees what the eye wants to see. You may see aircrafts and if it suits me, I may see designer socks by Ralph Laurent.

Deep Sight:

Now i know for sure I wished to discuss progressively through ancient art and then ancient text. But I will have to jump the gun a bit because I truly love to discuss the Nazca lines.

There is much that has been said about these lines, but let us calm down for once and reason.

1. These precise patterns cover large expanses of land for many hundreds of miles

Deep Sight:

2. The pattern of these lines are absolutely not observable from the ground.
3. The pattern of these lines are ONLY observable at a great aerial height

And just for the hell of it, maybe they saw some flying spacecraft and decided to draw all kinds of sh#t in order to get some attention.  This is not too farfetched if you can imagine us sending one of our unmanned spacecrafts to visit one of jupiter or saturn's moons that could sustain life. What if intelligent beings on one of those moons decided to draw lines on the ground so maybe they get the attention of the spacecraft?

BUT IT'S STILL FANTASY

Deep Sight:

4. According to mainstream history, human flight had not been invented.

justcool:

But it is impossible for any life form to go from one of the seven parts of the physical ream to another. The distance is unimaginable to the human mind. Hence no living thing or creature has ever been able to make it from one of the other six parts of the physical realm to the earth.

Let us turn our attention briefly to the matter of the purpose or multiple purposes of the Great Pyramid, drawing for our discussion on both the exact measurements made by modern scientists and the mythic legends of the remote past. A few facts:

The sides of the pyramid are lined up almost exactly with the cardinal points of the compass. The accuracy of this alignment is extraordinary, with an average discrepancy of only about three minutes of arc in any direction or a variation of less than 0.06 percent.

The Great Pyramid functioned as an enormous sundial. Its shadow to the north, and its reflected sunlight to the south, accurately marked the annual dates of both the solstices and the equinoxes. The basic dimensions of the Great Pyramid incorporate measurements from which the earth's size and shape can be calculated.

The pyramid is a scale model of the hemisphere, incorporating the geographical degrees of latitude and longitude. The latitude and longitude lines that intersect at the Great Pyramid (30 degrees north and 31 degrees east) cross more of the earth's land surface than any other lines, thus the pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth (the pyramid is built on the closest suitable site to this intersection).

The original perimeter of the pyramid equals exactly one-half minute of latitude at the equator, indicating that its builders measured the earth with extreme precision and recorded this information in the dimensions of the structure. Altogether these measurements show that the builders knew the exact dimensions of the planet as precisely as they have been recently determined by satellite surveys.

The foundation of the Great Pyramid is amazingly level., No corner of its base is more than one-half inch higher or lower than the others. Considering that the pyramid's base covers more than thirteen acres, this near-perfect leveling far exceeds even the finest architectural standards of the present day.

Measurements throughout the pyramid show that its constructors knew of the proportions of pi (3.14, ), phi or the Golden Mean (1.618), and the "Pythagorean" triangles thousands of years before Pythagoras, the so-called father of geometry, lived.

Measurements show that the builders knew the precise spherical shape and size of the earth and had accurately charted such complex astronomical events as the precession of the equinoxes and the lunar standstill dates. The minute discrepancies of the lengths of the base of the pyramid (several inches over the 230 meter length of its base) reveal not an error on the part of the builders but an ingenious means of incorporating into the pyramid the "discrepancies" of the earth itself, in this case the flattening of the earth's globe at the poles.

Shafts leading upward from the two main chambers, previously thought to be air shafts for ventilation, have been shown to have another purpose. A miniature electronic robot mechanically crawled sixty-five meters up the shafts and confirmed that the south and north shafts in the Kings Chamber are pointed to Al Nitak (Zeta Orionis) and Alpha Draconis respectively, while the south and north shafts of the Queens Chamber point to Sirius and Orion.

The scientists conducting this research have shown that the layout of the three pyramids on the Giza plateau precisely mirror the position of the three main stars in the Orion constellation. (While crawling along one of the shafts in the Queens chamber, the robot's cameras photographed a previously unknown closed door that may lead to some hidden chamber.)

Readers interested in these new findings should consult The Orion Mystery by Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert.

What does all this mean? Why did the ancient builders of the Giza pyramids, whoever they may have been, encode so much precise mathematical, geographic, and astronomical information into their structures? What was the purpose of the Great Pyramid?

While no authoritative answer can presently be given to this question, two intriguing matters suggest a direction for further inquiry and research. The first has to do with the persistent legends that the Great Pyramid, and especially the main chamber, were used as some sort of sacred initiation center.

According to one legend, students who had first undergone long years of preparation, meditation and metaphysical instruction in an esoteric school (the mythic "Hall of Records" hidden deep beneath the desert sands somewhere near the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx) were placed in the granite coffer of the main chamber and left alone throughout an entire night.

The coffer was the focal point of the energies gathered, concentrated, aimed, and directed at the main chamber by virtue of the precise mathematical location, alignment, and construction of the pyramid.

These energies, considered to be especially potent at certain precisely calculated periods when the earth was in a particular geometric alignment with solar, lunar, and stellar objects, were conducive to the awakening, stimulation, and acceleration of spiritual consciousness in the suitably prepared adept.

While it is now nearly impossible to spend an evening alone in the coffer of the main chamber, it is interesting to read the reports of those persons who have done so in the past. Mention will be made of experiences both terribly frightening (perhaps because of the lack of any appropriate training on the part of the experimenter) and also deeply peaceful, even spiritually illuminating.

Napoleon himself spent a night alone in the chamber. Emerging pale and dazed, he would not speak of his powerful experiences, only saying, "You would not believe me if I told you."

A second matter needing further inquiry from the scientific community studying the Great Pyramid - and one that might help explain the subject just discussed - concerns the matter of unexplained energetic anomalies frequently noticed and recorded in the main chamber.

In the 1920s, a Frenchman named Antoine Bovis made the surprising discovery that, despite the heat and high humidity of the main chamber, the dead bodies of animals left in the chamber did not decay but completely dehydrated.

Thinking that there might be some relationship between this phenomena and the position of the main chamber in the pyramid, Bovis constructed a small-scale model of the pyramid, oriented it to the same direction as the Great Pyramid, and placed the body of a dead cat at the approximate level of the main chamber.

The result was the same. As he had observed in the Great Pyramid, the cat's body did not decay.

In the 1960s, researchers in Czechoslovakia and the U.S., conducting limited studies of the geometry of the pyramid, repeated this experiment with the same results. They also found that the form of the pyramid somehow mysteriously kept foods preserved without spoiling, sharpened dull razor blades, induced plants to germinate and grow more quickly, and hastened the healing of animals' wounds.

Other scientists, in consideration of the high quartz content of the granite blocks in the main chamber and the incredible pressures those blocks are subjected to, theorized that the main chamber may have been the focal point of a powerful piezoelectric field; magnetometer measurements inside the chamber indeed showed higher levels than the normal background geomagnetic field.

Although much research remains to be done in these areas, legend, archaeology, mathematics, and earth sciences seem to indicate that the Great Pyramid was a monumental device for gathering, amplifying, and focusing a mysterious energy field for the spiritual benefit of human beings.

We do not know exactly how the pyramid and its main chamber were used, and the geometric structure of the pyramid has been subtley altered by the removal of the casing stones and the cap-stone. None-the-less, the Great Pyramid of the Giza plateau still emanates great power as a transformational power place. It has done so for uncounted thousands of years and seems destined to continue for ages to come.

aletheia:

^
Err. . .just one question: if it is impossible to traverse from one part to the other and there is no interaction as you say, how did you know that the other six parts exist?

Martian:

http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html

If the ancient Egyptians had vehicles such as helicopters, submarines, and jet airplanes, one would expect to find some evidence of this other than in a single inscription on the lintel of a single temple. This type of large machinery requires a vast amount of support (including fuel, parts, factories, etc.) but there is no trace of any such support in all of Egypt. The Egyptian literature is also bereft of any boast, much less passing mention, of advanced aircraft. Obviously this situation doesn't seem peculiar to those who really want to believe that the ancient Egyptians flew around in airplanes.

Martian:


Apophenia is the experience of seeing meaningful patterns or connections in random or meaningless data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

http://members.tripod.com/a_u_r_a/abydos.html

vescucci:

The closest star to us is Andromeda if I am not mistaken. I don't exactly remember how far away it is. But I know it is ridiculously far away. And it'd take forever and ever for an alien living in probably one of the planets in Andromeda's gravitational field to get here.

But I really have to ask, do some of you believe in these aliens or you're simply ready to entertain the thought of them?

Martian:

Okay!
I wash my hands of this thread like Pontius Pilate.Bye Deepsight, these folks are now talking about seeing the universe from other realms.

Deep Sight:

The hieroglyph depicts very clear images save for those determined to ignore them by all means.

Martian:

http://www.catchpenny.org/abydos.html
If the ancient Egyptians had vehicles such as helicopters, submarines, and jet airplanes, one would expect to find some evidence of this other than in a single inscription on the lintel of a single temple. This type of large machinery requires a vast amount of support (including fuel, parts, factories, etc.) but there is no trace of any such support in all of Egypt. The Egyptian literature is also bereft of any boast, much less passing mention, of advanced aircraft. Obviously this situation doesn't seem peculiar to those who really want to believe that the ancient Egyptians flew around in airplanes.

Deep Sight:

You should not be so intolerant as to abandon a thread simply because you hear a viewpoint that is alien to yours.