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An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by manmustwac(m): 9:06am On Mar 01, 2012
Well since you can't prove that a spirit exists it means you can't prove that your God exists.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by emofine2(f): 9:09am On Mar 01, 2012
FXKing2012:
Where did u hear that there are many Gods? No religious person in the world has ever subscribed to the notion of many Gods, they all believe there is one God but their view and interpretation of Him is what differs.

I don’t think you grasped my question fully.

Which “religious people” are you referring to? Are you factoring all belief systems? Don’t forget that the religious populace also includes the polytheists or are they exempted from your discussion?

Yes many people call on the name of “God” but all these God’s are not in harmony with each other i.e. a Muslim does not adhere to the trinity although the authority they address and submit to has the same title as the Christian “God”.

There are many interpretations of God as you have rightly said thus is it still the same God governing all these believers but with different aliases? Are these Gods not in opposition to one another? The fundamental thing "religious people" have in common is that they believe in a God not necessarily the same God.

People pay obesisance or like you said “commune” with their individual rendering of God and if that like you have implied should be enough to validate the existence of a God then by that criteria there are multiple Gods. Hence my question.

musKeeto:

There are so many gods in India. About 30 million, I think,  I live there, didn't get this off the internet.

shocked Wow. If that census is correct that’s like 15 times the population of Namibia.

Which makes me wonder . . .if there is "one true God" . . .which "one" out of the vast population of these higher beings is the legitimate God?
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 9:30am On Mar 01, 2012
manmustwac:

Well since you can't prove that a spirit exists it means you can't prove that your God exists.

Again a spirit exists in the spirit realm, not physical so dont expect to see a spirit wt your eyes or even feel one with your human senses cos they dont operate within the spheres of our human and physical laws. If feeling a spirit wt your human senses is what u want in order to believe then u are "on a long thing".
Even though we cannot see or touch spirits but there are ways of establishing their existence. Are u aware that a virus can not be seen but the effects can be seen thus the reason why people believe in the existence of virus.
A spirit can not be seen but we can see the effects thus the reason to believe.


emöfine:

I don’t think you grasped my question fully.
Which “religious people” are you referring to? Are you factoring all belief systems? Don’t forget that the religious populace also includes the polytheists or are they exempted from your discussion?

Yes many people call on the name of “God” but all these God’s are not in harmony with each other i.e. a Muslim does not adhere to the trinity although the authority they address and submit to has the same title as the Christian “God”.

There are many interpretations of God as you have rightly said thus is it still the same God governing all these believers but with different aliases? Are these Gods not in opposition to one another? The fundamental thing "religious people" have in common is that they believe in a God not necessarily the same God.

People pay obesisance or like you said “commune” with their individual rendering of God and if that like you have implied should be enough to validate the existence of a God then by that criteria there are multiple Gods. Hence my question.

shocked Wow. If that census is correct that’s like 15 times the population of Namibia.

Which makes me wonder . . .if there is "one true God" . . .which "one" out of the vast population of these higher beings is the legitimate God?

You see, we'll keep going in circles if we stay on the subject of God and at the end of the day we'll achieve nothing. God is a spirit and whatever means people choose to reach God is not important here, what is important is the big picture which is the fact that the spirit realm exists.
So I'd say we restrict this to the existence of the spirit realm.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by musawisdom(m): 9:44am On Mar 01, 2012
On d issue of trinity, av d father, d son and d holy spirit. Is that three gods.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by dekung(m): 10:03am On Mar 01, 2012
FX,
Do you know why I have chosen not to take up this challenge with you? I have read so many of your post and majority of them lack depth, honesty and intellectual capacity. You are too shifty and will tell any lie just to win cheap points. I came to Nairaland to learn and I sure have learnt a lot, responding to you on Oledepo's post was because you made unsubstantiated claims which I found preposterous. I chose to leave you to your convictions there because I was beggining to get really upset even going to the extent of hurling insults (gosh! thats unlike me) because of some of your claims forgeting that this is just an internet forum. I dont want my emotions worked up again so you can qualify me with different things ranging from intellectual bankruptcy to outright stupidity. Truly I am tempted to get in the ring with you but what will that profit me? I would have wasted so much time responding to your posts I would have left more important and intellectually beneficial things undone. Just so you know I, like dilluminati, used to believe so much in your bible and its teachings, till date am a member of dramma dept in church, in fact there is a home cell meeting held in my house every sunday till now and guess what, i still attend because am the host, I was once a home cell leader but I quietly left because I hate deceiving people telling them to believe what I dont. My wife is a strong believer, as I speak she is at an MFM prayer meeting and I wont stop her if it makes her happy. Whether a God exists or not is the God's and you its/his/her followers' problem. I dont bother people with my belief system and I dont want to be bothered. Shout all you can, insult all you can, write all you can in fact knock yourself out, I still wont take up this challenge with you.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Arosa(m): 10:47am On Mar 01, 2012
birdman:

Yourself you dumb@ss

Myself? You must be a monkey with poo for brains if you think you know me.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Arosa(m): 11:02am On Mar 01, 2012
musKeeto:

What of the fools that say there is a God, and act like there is none because He forgives?  grin grin grin
You seriously believe your Bible has all the answers?

Sure there are fools on both sides of the divide, at least the fools that know there is God are on the right track of life. I don't think the bible has all the answers. The bible is limited in telling us who or what God is. I also think that the bible is a book that attempts to teach us how to live our lives, while simultaneously hinting at the description of God.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by mkmyers45(m): 11:48am On Mar 01, 2012
FXKing2012:

A deity is any divine being or holy being. Whatever u consider holy can be said to be a deity.

And to your question abt God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Where u missed it is that you are trying to see God as a person or image that we can point at and say, yes this is God. But it's not like that, God is a Spirit and do you understand how Spirit functions? Do u expect a spirit to function like a physical being? Dont apply the laws that apply to the physical being to the spiritual being cos they just wont hold. So God is all three at the same time, and pls dont say itz not possible cos God is a Spirit not a physical being.[/b][/color]

You just shot yourself in the foot, If na W.A.E.C you don fail finish, what is the difference between God and Deity?
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by dekung(m): 12:11pm On Mar 01, 2012
@Mrmayor,
My wife knows my stand, initially it was rather disturbing for her, especially someone brought under good christian background. In fact she went haead to report me to the board of trustee chairman in the church, she reported to some of our friends and one of them was on verge of reporting me to Rev Sam Adeyemi. Of course I allowed them have their way but I know my convictions. Lately my wife is begining to see things my way, she now realises the level of hypocrisy displayed by these so called christians that is not to say she is considering agnostism or atheism like me but she is no longer as fanatical. Deception full everywhere and like I said I cant tell people to believe what I dont.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by mkmyers45(m): 12:36pm On Mar 01, 2012
FxKing2012

Please what is the difference between God's and Deity's and which one should be followed? Stop Dodging questions
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 12:42pm On Mar 01, 2012
mkmyers45:

FxKing2012

Please what is the difference between God's and Deity's and which one should be followed? Stop Dodging questions

There is no such thing as Gods, but there are gods or deities. Deities or gods are the things people consider holy, which they revere and in some cases they pray to in order to act as a link btw them (the pple) and God or the Deity.
Are u satisfied?
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by mkmyers45(m): 12:46pm On Mar 01, 2012
^^^

So the one you serve, is he a God or a Deity?

I am still waiting for your "without the bible proof"
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 12:50pm On Mar 01, 2012
[b]Now let me ask my own questions and I hope you'd be able to proffer answers.

1) How did the universe come into being?

2) Why is planet earth the only habitable planet?

3) Despite the invention of such powerful telescopes as the Hubble Space Telescope and the James Web Telescope (these are telescopes able to see galaxies and lights that are millions of light years away), why have we not discovered extraterrestrial intelligence?

4) Why is it that we hear of evolution but we have never experienced it since the emergence of man on planet earth?

5) The earth is so carefully located that planet Jupiter protects us from all the massive asteroids from outer space, the distance btw the earth and the sun is just perfect to give moderate heat, the moon is perfectly located to create the tides which is essential for sea life and also creates the necessary gravitational pull that keeps us from being drawn into the sun by the gravitational pull of the sun. And some 'smart' dude thinks all these are mere coincidences?

Answer these then we can take it from there.[/b]
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by mkmyers45(m): 12:58pm On Mar 01, 2012
^^^^^

Answering my question with question

Mire Sr.

Sólo podemos tener por motivos de fricción si se estudia su co-debator

Can you point anywhere where i state an atheistic stand?

Tenga un buen día el señor
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 1:12pm On Mar 01, 2012
mkmyers45:

Answering my question with question

Can you point anywhere where i state an atheistic stand?

I've made it clear there is only one God or Supreme Being or Supreme Deity, call Him whatever you like it's still the same personality, ok!
Then there are deities or gods which many pray to in order to take their request to God, The Deity, The Supreme Being, The Almighty, etc etc.
Who I serve or pray to is not important here cos I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm only of the opinion that there is a spiritual realm and I'm ready to take on anyone who thinks otherwise.

And if u say u are not a skeptic or an atheist then we are on the same page, the challenge goes to those who
claim there is no God or no spirit realm; I'm talking about those who believe that all there is to this world are the physical things we see and feel.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Nobody: 1:39pm On Mar 01, 2012
FXKing2012:

There is no such thing as Gods, but there are gods or deities. Deities or gods are the things people consider holy, which they revere and in some cases they pray to in order to act as a link btw them (the pple) and God or the Deity.
Are u satisfied?

So would you say the Bible's a deity by your very definition? Jesus is also a Deity? The cross? Quoran? The millions of images man has made through the ages? The sun? The moon? Are these all inclusive in your non-dictionary defined term 'Deity'?
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Nobody: 1:44pm On Mar 01, 2012
FXKing2012:

I've made it clear there is only one God or Supreme Being or Supreme Deity, call Him whatever you like it's still the same personality, ok!
Then there are deities or gods which many pray to in order to take their request to God, The Deity, The Supreme Being, The Almighty, etc etc.
Who I serve or pray to is not important here cos I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm only of the opinion that there is a spiritual realm and I'm ready to take on anyone who thinks otherwise.

And if u say u are not a skeptic or an atheist then we are on the same page, the challenge goes to those who
claim there is no God or no spirit realm; I'm talking about those who believe that all there is to this world are the physical things we see and feel.
After reading this, I had to go back to your opening post,

If you truly believe there is no God, if you sincerely believe in the Big Ba.ng Theory as the beginning of all things, if you dearly hold on to Darwin's evolution theory, or perhaps you think there are extraterrestrial intelligence (aliens) lurking in outer space, then I would like us to debate.
This has nothing to do with religion, it's purely an intellectual debate and perhaps we all can learn something new at the end of it all.
Seems like this thread lost its way at this point
FXKing2012:

I've always known you are intellectually bankrupt, what you are very good at is throwing insults everywhere. Here is an individual who is way above your league bro.

[size=15pt]Where did u hear that there are many Gods? No religious person in the world has ever subscribed to the notion of many Gods, they all believe there is one God but their view and interpretation of Him is what differs.[/size]

Who taught you how to crawl after you were born? Who taught u how to make a sound after you were born? Are u even aware certain things come to u naturally?
If these are the kinds of arguments atheists hold on to to show that there is no God then I'm highly disappointed at the level of their intelligence and reasoning. I thought atheists were very deep and logical individuals. The greatest fear of an atheist is meeting a Christian/religious person who is very deep and logical.


Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Jenwitemi(m): 7:51pm On Mar 01, 2012
I am a freethinker and i believe there is a CREATOR or CREATORS of this reality. What one chooses to call the creator(s) is their own personal preference. I do not, however, believe or accept any specially packaged deity by any religion as THE creator, meaning that i reject all deity worshiping religions and their doctrines.

I do not hold on to Darwin's evolution theories and neither do i believe in the scriptural theories of any religion, either. Yes, i believe that we are not alone in the universe and there are races of beings that are vastly older and much much much more advanced than us humans in all areas.
musKeeto:

If you truly believe there is no God, if you sincerely believe in the Big Ba.ng Theory as the beginning of all things, if you dearly hold on to Darwin's evolution theory, or perhaps you think there are extraterrestrial intelligence (aliens) lurking in outer space, then I would like us to debate.
This has nothing to do with religion, it's purely an intellectual debate and perhaps we all can learn something new at the end of it all.

Pls no bigotry, no bashing, no name-calling and no insults.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Jenwitemi(m): 8:11pm On Mar 01, 2012
My answers;

1)There is no way of us ever knowing this because we are in it and part of it, and as far as this remains the case, we will never know. So this question is moot from the onset.

2)There is no proof of that so why even ask this question?

3)Very simple answer, really: If the intelligent beings do not wish to come in contact with us(for whatever reasons), we won't find them no matter what sort of telescope we use. If they are vastly more advance than us, like i think they are, staying out of our sights would be a peace of cake to them. Why wouldn't they want to make contact with us, you might ask? Well, take a look at the human race and what we've been up to on this planet for a good 2000 years and take a guess.

4) Very silly question, mate. We're always evolving as a specie all the time. Evolution is forever ongoing and you won't notice it unless you really pay attention to it, which is what scientists do. Anything that lives evolves. This universe is a living entity, so therefore, it is also always evolving.

5) Even modern scientists no longer believe that all that is coincidental. Only fools and uninformed believe that.

FXKing2012:

[b]Now let me ask my own questions and I hope you'd be able to proffer answers.

1) How did the universe come into being?

2) Why is planet earth the only habitable planet?

3) Despite the invention of such powerful telescopes as the Hubble Space Telescope and the James Web Telescope (these are telescopes able to see galaxies and lights that are millions of light years away), why have we not discovered extraterrestrial intelligence?

4) Why is it that we hear of evolution but we have never experienced it since the emergence of man on planet earth?

5) The earth is so carefully located that planet Jupiter protects us from all the massive asteroids from outer space, the distance btw the earth and the sun is just perfect to give moderate heat, the moon is perfectly located to create the tides which is essential for sea life and also creates the necessary gravitational pull that keeps us from being drawn into the sun by the gravitational pull of the sun. And some 'smart' dude thinks all these are mere coincidences?

Answer these then we can take it from there.[/b]

Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by emofine2(f): 9:24pm On Mar 01, 2012
FXKing2012:
You see, we'll keep going in circles if we stay on the subject of God and at the end of the day we'll achieve nothing. God is a spirit and whatever means people choose to reach God is not important here, what is important is the big picture which is the fact that the spirit realm exists.
So I'd say we restrict this to the existence of the spirit realm.

So God is no more central to the topic abi? You now want the discussion to be exclusively about the spirit realm.  But if “God is a spirit” how can one talk about the spirit realm without discussing the spirit that is God?

Ok FXKing2012, discuss the spirit realm with me. Enlighten me.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Jenwitemi(m): 9:51pm On Mar 01, 2012
Never was an atheist, mate, just irreligious. It is very easy to mistake a person who does not care for religion for an atheist.
mrmayor:

@Jenwitemi,

Are experiencing some sort Epiphany shocked? I would have sworn that you're are hardcore Atheist
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 12:53am On Mar 02, 2012
About to sleep, tomorrow I will use the tools of science and philosophy to show you why there is a God somewhere.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Anchorra: 3:07am On Mar 02, 2012
Posted by: FXKing2012
Who taught you how to crawl after you were born? Who taught u how to make a sound after you were born? [i]Are u even aware certain things come to u naturally?[/i]If these are the kinds of arguments atheists hold on to to show that there is no God then I'm highly disappointed at the level of their intelligence and reasoning. I thought atheists were very deep and logical individuals. The greatest fear of an atheist is meeting a Christian/religious person who is very deep and logical.


If certain things come naturally, should we be then exercize any form of restraint with these natural impulses?
Adam found Eve's poohsie naturally. So what was God's problem? wink
I care about religious people who are deep and logical. No need to fear them.
I just don't care for their bigotry, insolence and hypocrisy.
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by emofine2(f): 8:35am On Mar 02, 2012
FXKing2012, what is the purpose of this thread?

Do you want to hear what the “others” believe (others being those who don’t pertain to any religion in particular)?

Do you want to know why some do not believe in God(s)? Why some doubt the existence of God?
Or maybe it’s the concept of “God” some are disagreeable with and may find the term "creator" more apt.

What is the “challenge” here exactly? Honestly I’m confused because whenever people direct questions to you, you either divert the issue or disregard them. What is it you want us to talk about then if you are not so keen on taking questions?

I have asked you several questions and you just glossed over them. In reality I thought this thread might just elicit some thought-provoking discussions not empty babble (wishful thinking on my part I guess).
I am always open and eager to learn about others form of spirituality but quite frankly I’m fed up of your constant back tracking and artful dodging. It’s you that is going round in circles.

There’s nothing to learn here so I’ll take my leave.

*unsubscribes with immediate effect*
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Jenwitemi(m): 11:02am On Mar 02, 2012
Please, note that i do not dismiss the evolution theory of Darwin entirely. There is a lot of truth in it. I just do not buy it when people say that the theory totally dismisses a Creator. It doesn't.
FXKing2012:

If u believe there is a creator somewhere and dont hold on to Darwin's evolution theory then we are, to some extent, on the same page. Again, this thread is not about trying to get people to believe in Christianity but rather to debunk the claim that everything starts and ends in this physical world.

Please show me where i stated the highlighted, mate. You should learn how to interprete accurately what you read, brethren. There are many other reasons why a very advanced alien civilization may not want to interact with us and one of those reasons(which i actually had in mind) could be that we humans are just not spiritually evolved and matured enough to be worth interacting with. One of the many signs of immaturity is WARFARE which the history of the human race in general is repleted with. Warring is a sign of immaturity and that is what may be keeping them away from making contact with us. We need to grow up first before they can communicate and interact with us.
FXKing2012:


But I must say I find your answers really amusing especially where u opined the aliens who are 'vastly more intelligent' than us are avoiding to make contact wt us in order for us not to destroy/exploit them.
Really, where is the sense in that? How can we destroy/exploit a people who are far more intelligent than us? Every living thing likes to conquer/destroy/exploit as long as it is stronger or smarter, so if they are avoiding us in order for us no to destroy/exploit them, it only goes to show we are more intelligent, and if we are more intelligent why havent we seen them?
Hope u understand the logic here?

Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by Yagba: 11:18am On Mar 02, 2012
We miss the way when we think of God as having a physically singular identity separate from all that we see around us. God is not 'an addition' to the universe but an entirety, manifesting in diverse ways resulting to the objects we see or the forces we perceive around us. How can we then disprove such a 'proposition'? The major concern of those who don't have religious beliefs would have been to question the moral authority of religions with their sad history of tragic conflicts. No one can prove that God does not exist, nor there is no spirit; they can only, justifiably, point to the horrors committed by humans against their fellows in the name of religion.

1 Like

Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 11:43am On Mar 02, 2012
Anchorra:

Posted by: FXKing2012

If certain things come naturally, should we be then exercize any form of restraint with these natural impulses?
Adam found Eve's poohsie naturally. So what was God's problem?
wink
I care about religious people who are deep and logical. No need to fear them.
I just don't care for their bigotry, insolence and hypocrisy.

God never has a problem with whatever Adam did with Eve, so what are u talking about?

emöfine:

FXKing2012, what is the purpose of this thread?

Do you want to hear what the “others” believe (others being those who don’t pertain to any religion in particular)?

Do you want to know why some do not believe in God(s)? Why some doubt the existence of God?
Or maybe it’s the concept of “God” some are disagreeable with and may find the term "creator" more apt.

What is the “challenge” here exactly? Honestly I’m confused because whenever people direct questions to you, you either divert the issue or disregard them. What is it you want us to talk about then if you are not so keen on taking questions?


Good question! The purpose is to try and prove to the skeptics that there is a God/Creator/Supreme Being, etc who made all things and that the earth is unique and the only one of its kind cos God/Creator/Almighty/Supreme Being, etc made it so.

Jenwitemi:

There are many other reasons why a very advanced alien civilization may not want to interact with us and one of those reasons(which i actually had in mind) could be that we humans are just not spiritually evolved and matured enough to be worth interacting with. One of the many signs of immaturity is WARFARE which the history of the human race in general is repleted with. Warring is a sign of immaturity and that is what may be keeping them away from making contact with us. We need to grow up first before they can communicate and interact with us.

[b]Again this sounds very much like your earlier argument. Let me make it clear to you, the tendency of any living organism is to conquer and control as long as it is capable of doing so. This is the case from the simplest and tiniest organisms such as virus and bacteria to plants, animals and even humans.
If they are more mature than us, that means they are more developed and superior in every sense. Now if they are better than us, trust me their desire would be to visit and see to what use we can be put to. They shld have no problem making contact if they are more superior cos then they'll know there is no way we can have any negative impact on them. And if we are gonna have a negative impact on them, they wld know they could easily go back to their base without us ever seeing them again just like before they visited.

My point is it simply doesnt make any sense whatsoever for an advanced/superior civilization to wanna stay away cos we are not at their level. This line of argument simply doesnt hold water.[/b]
Re: An Open Challenge To Atheists And Free-thinkers by FXKing2012(m): 12:22pm On Mar 02, 2012
[b]I'm yet to read any post with a very logical reason as to why there is no God or why we are not alone in the universe. This tells me the skeptics only hold on to their point of view either for the sake of being a rebel or for the sake of attention.

Scientists who are supposedly very smart told us the Big Ba.ng Theory is the beginning of all things. I find this really hilarious for the singular reason that the theory came from scientists.

Let me squash the theory with the following:
1) For there to be a 'ba'ng' the thing that went 'ba.ng' must have preexisted before the 'ba.ng'.

2) Since the thing that went 'ba.ng' is physical that means it must have come from somewhere cos anything physical couldnt have come from nowhere.

3) Energy is required to trigger any form of explosion, so where did the energy come from? Definitely not from nowhere.

Astronomers and space scientists tell us we are not alone and that the extraterrestrial life out there is far more civilized than us, I wish one of them could throw light into these:
1) The aliens are far more advanced than us yet they have never made contact since the emergence of man on earth despite knowing every living thing likes to conquer and control given the opportunity.

2)We have extremely powerful telescopes and satellites yet we have never seen or spotted any aliens, or even any artificial light from outer space.

3)We have been eavesdropping on space for several years with the use of radioactive wave hoping to get a signal of any form of activity in space, yet nothing has been heard or detected.

4)A satellite with messages, maps and descriptions of planet earth and it's resources was sent out to space in the 50's with the hope that some extraterrestrial intelligence will come in contact with it and find their way to us, but till date we are still expecting them.

5) The earth is so carefully located that planet Jupiter protects us from all the massive asteroids from outer space, the distance btw the earth and the sun is just perfect to give moderate heat, the moon is perfectly located to create the tides which is essential for sea life and also creates the necessary gravitational pull that keeps us from being drawn into the sun by the gravitational pull of the sun thus making earth the only habitable planet(as far as has been discovered by scientists) in the universe, and they tell me all these are mere coincidences.

Darwin and his lot came with the gospel of evolution and so many bought into it.
1) If in deed we evolved from apes, how come for the tens of thousands of years we've existed, we have not noticed any form of evolution in any mammal.

2) If we in deed evolved from apes, we wouldn't be eons apart in terms of our level of intelligence. We have evolved as humans from one primitive state to a more sophisticated one but no animal has been known/seen to evolve from one level of sophistication to another. The lions, tigers, apes, etc we have today are exactly the same in terms of level of intelligence as those that existed 1,000yrs, 10,000yrs or 100,000yrs ago.

I could go on and on to show that there is no way such theories as evolution, extraterrestrial intelligence or that there is no God can stand real scrutiny. Those holding on to such ideas are either not deep enough and willing to live in the superficial or are only living in a state of denial, or perhaps they just want some attention.


[/b]

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