DictatorZAR:

Look at this fool again

Nigeria receives over £230m each year from UK goverment and the money goes directly to corrupt officials
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235488/Britain-wasting-230m-aid-Nigerian-schools-Pupils-left-play-games-teachers-fail-turn-says-report.html


Even a country with a $2trillion economy still receives more aid then South Africa. UK gives India over £200m ($313m) a year.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20265583

Now you come and talk nonsense about UK ending SA's £19m a year aid please, there are houses in South Africa worth more 10times more then that meager Aid UK gives SA.

By the way did you read that SA told UK that our bilateral relationship will no longer be the same, which means SA don't see those UK fools as important to South Africa anymore, now this can't even be said about Nigeria who goverment is a Western Lap Dog.

yeswecan: The meaning attached to 'white' and 'black' here is very depressing: it is ahistorical, racist and lend a genetic superiority to whites. It is depressing because this is coming from the 'educated' strand of the masses.

kgr28: this all4naija dickkhead thinks he knows shyt, tell him ntja!!

xhosanostraZAR:

A ±50yr old super power is still living of foreign aid and it seem will continue to do so for many years to come...nci nci nci

It took SA only 19yrs to turn a bankrupt country into a leading economy of Africa. I know you wish you had whites in your country but for a brief moment forget about them and consider calling Thabo Mbeki to help the giants of africa to turn the corner. Since he's all for Africa and its unity I doubt he'll mind.

all4naija: There is no credence to what you are alluding to here whatsoever. Given commendations to those who are the rightful people is nothing to be depressing about. It is stating things the way they are. Not until we learn to say the truth we are just another elements of lies. That being said, there is arguably anything that surrounds the development of SA that is not from the whites. That is a complete fact!

yeswecan:

What is truth if devoid of historical content? How does one state things as they are when you cannot engage with how they came to be? Indeed, in social discourses 'the way things are,' are nothing other than 'the way they came to be' because it is ever changing. Reminds me of a vintage TV program i saw recently where whites in the US were complaining bitterly about affirmative action; " we are being discriminated against" they correctly chanted because they saw it from the NOW.. You can only see things the way they are when observing the natural world-- or perhaps something abstract. Your problem, all4naija, is that you speak of South Africa like it is something you can observe and report on, only from the NOW.

The truth is, South Africa was locked into a Dual System that ran out of steam in 1994 . Those you referred to as 'blacks' were systematically locked into a circle of diminishing returns, poverty passivity and psychological exploitation. They were pushed into the lower end of the dual system- while part of the extracted wealth was used to create capital for those you referred to as "whites". If you see it this way you'd have a different definition of whites and blacks that doesn't involve genetic qualities but empty words that could be properly filled up with historical events which created the contemporary world. Except, you are arguing that the white man is different from the black man- in terms of mental capacity- if not, then what do you mean by whites and blacks?

By extension South Africa is a perfect model to measure the wealth that was taken away from the continent, only because in its case part of the wealth was left behind. I mean physical and mental wealth. The way we easily forget about the past, and how we got to this place, and quickly moved on into creating a world from the NOW is the reason Africa is stagnated or perhaps regressing. This is because the power relations that characterised colonisation is ever present and more secured.

yeswecan: @all4naija

A point of information; I have never been to South Africa. YES, I'm Nigerian and i could not recognise myself from your description. You made some valid points but you did your best to sidestep the crux of our argument.

How do you define 'whites' and ' blacks' in this context? assuming they were empty words, what would you fill them up with? ( Genetic or historical?) if you take it simply as colour of skin then the logical extension is clear and simple. Please give me a simple definition of the 'whites' sustaining the development of SA and the lazy 'blacks'. I don't think you can afford to provide a genetic definition - the more you think about it, the more you realise it has to be historic. The whites in SA could easily be a class of blacks who ran the apartheid system. I dare suggest that there is something close to a class apartheid system in Britain that extended right from the empire; they receive so many privileges by virtue of their "noble birth" for example house of Lord membership e.t.c. Such cannot be defined in race terms but on some other ground.

So, I repeat, the meaning attached to whites and blacks in this thread is ahistorical and racist.

all4naija: I can only do nothing than laugh over this your comment. Where in any of my statement did I seem to be looking for whites to come to Nigeria? If they are willing to come and use their expertise there is nothing wrong in that. They are still leading in the scientific fields of today's world. Nigeria is a free country that respect the rights of every human being, being it white, black, yellow or colored. It is the right reason we do not blame anybody for our misfortunes at most times like the South Africans in this forum.

I don't think we need Thabo Mbeki to help us out in any way. We can only co-operate with him as we are opened to different views and dialogue to move the continent and the people forward. Not like some prideful and bragging citizens of SA, who would seat on their poor a$$ beating their chests on how much development they have achieved. Forgetting the past is like forgetting what has become of that nation with the help of Nigeria and other African countries, so that they can enjoy the freedom they enjoy today. So, don't burn the picture of your past for the simple reason of over-joy. It might as well means creating enmity of those who made it possible for you.

1,2:
Like Nigeria never had white population before, those old decaying infrustructure were built by the very same whites. But the different is Nigeria chased them away just like Zimbabwe. SA never chased white folks away. Any country that was once colonised, most of their infrustructure was built by whites.

Many people are not aware that most of the whites in SA come from other African countries, once those countries gained inependent, they ran to SA, frim Mozambique to Kenya and DRC

xhosanostraZAR:

Okay y'all got this. Gotcha.

Tell me this though when you decide to stand by someone, albeit never asked; you do so out of the goodness of your heart OR you only offer expecting something in return?

all4naija: Got me on what? Does welcoming white people in our society is a bad thing or is an avenue of seeking for help?

all4naija:

To me human skin color has nothing important to do with superiority in the rightful sense but actions have proven time again and again one is better that the other in many regards. So, it is no longer a thing of science but of psychology. And, that may extend to the future with little importance as we all come to term with the way to move humanity forward(by one carrying the other along). On the sideline, as to what you are alluding to my question is. How many blacks can you point to are making milestones in the area of sciences?

yeswecan:

How do you mean by "actions has proven that one race is better than the other?" what is the benchmark to measure what is better?? Is there a natural standard? AND how do you define the term 'better'? Is this definition value neutral or devoid of [b]power [/b]in its formation? You need to learn how knowledge is shaped by power - and you cannot have the former without the latter... Knowledge is power in the sense that what you think you know serve to reinforce a power statement/relations. Aristotle thought Athenians were more superior to non-Antenians ; John Locke thought Africans were "beasts who have no houses without heads, having their mouth and eyes in their breasts" - these were knowledge (facts) in their time. It is common practice for THE POWERFUL to create his image by labelling others -- Men labelled women as weak and irrational ; most women believed this was the case throughout the ages. You have bought into the notion that blacks are inferior - it is loaded in every word of your comment.

Your submission that blacks are not making milestones in science therefore they are inferior is too silly for words . . too eurocentric for a debate. On a practical note; you must be very simple minded to think that the accented cases of inventions are all there is. I am not a scientist - i can only speak of what i know; the America and French revolutions are often held up as the beacon of freedom through out the ages but the Haitian Revolution (1791–1804) is far more interesting in that light. A General Toussaint L'Ouverture led an army of slaves and overcame an empire - declared the rights of men; what can be more inspiring? overthrowing your king or fighting a colonial power??. The Haitian Revolution was consigned to the dustbin of history; and even our universities in Nigeria teach about the French revolution more than anything else (power-knowledge relationship).This is very deep and you only touch the surface of it . .

Your last comment, in its en from from tirety, was more revealing than it was intended to be; we are obviously coming very different angles - you are only touching the surface, its too light for me to follow, try other layers of analysis. White/black are meaningless terms (fill them up with something); on some level its like Yoruba and Igbo. There is nothing a white man can do that a black man cannot do (and vice versa) if there is any difference in level of performance, it can, and should be explained with something other than colour of skin. The statement 'whites are sustaining the SA economy' is a lazy statement; it focuses on colour as the unit of analysis which suggest that colour is the reason for this. Why would race be the unit of analysis when it reveals nothing other than genetic features? Applying it means genetic differences explains why whites are sustaining the SA economy . . and it doesn't.

xhosanostraZAR: Too bad white Saffas are never gonna see how much one naija desperately wants them to come and transform his country. Sies tog

xhosanostraZAR: Too bad white Saffas are never gonna see how much one naija desperately wants them to come and transform his country. Sies tog

zetdee:

He seems to be counting on the chinese to do that, looks like he's written his own folks of completely.

all4naija: That is not what I am alluding to here. I am alluding to the fact and the reality on ground in your country that the white is responsible for the development of the country in all ramifications.

There has never been a time where the blacks in that society can lay claim to the development of that country. At least, not in our life time. If there is going to be anything the Xhosa or Zulus are going to lay claim to it will be the barbaric inclinations we have seen exhibited in the past. That will include the attacks on innocent Nigerians on the streets and the ruthless fighting for increase in the wages for miner that led to the death of over 33 people on a single day. There could have been better ways to address these issues from a civilized perspective, the modern man way of reasoning so that the problems can be solve once and for all. But, they choose to take the savagery way. To do that as time is still the bane of things to come, they are to put in place mechanism to encourage youths in engaging activities which will make them to be responsible citizens. Like developing sports, providing incentive for them to get educated and making it mandatory to get jobs at the end of it all. Next will be to get at a drawing-board to put at bay the hate crimes on innocent foreigners through dialogue and orientation. There should be provision for students exchanges within different countries of Africa to expose this home-grown or bred youths to be aware of the surroundings beyond their own.

Those have not left out the facts of those whose capacity has immensely contributed to the development of that society, that is, the white people of South Africa. Though, there is a sad history behind what have happened in the past, the same can be said of all colonized nations of the world - the indigenous are always at the receiving end. It is time the black South Africans commend these people efforts and forge ahead. And, they should stop bragging to Nigerians about their country because there is nothing they did to develop that country to the stage it is today. I think Nigerians are even contributing to that country more than many black South African brothers and sisters.

To conclude it all, if the blacks of that society must hold their heads high, it should be done with humility and respect for their big brothers from Nigeria. Then, they will gradually master the act of smartness and travel out to see the world beyond their own fool's paradise.

Thank you.

all4naija: You are misleading to be thinking that is what I am talking about. If your response to your colleague comment is to make mockery of me you are only doing that out of your own ignorance. It only proves my point further that it is the white people who are responsible for SA development. I wonder what the blacks have been doing all this while, even at the hem of affairs and the president has been black since 1991.

You are not stating things they way they are if you want to sidetrack this topic with this your very comment.

all4naija: That is not what I am alluding to here. I am alluding to the fact and the reality on ground in your country that the white is responsible for the development of the country in all ramifications.

There has never been a time where the blacks in that society can lay claim to the development of that country. At least, not in our life time. If there is going to be anything the Xhosa or Zulus are going to lay claim to it will be the barbaric inclinations we have seen exhibited in the past. That will include the attacks on innocent Nigerians on the streets and the ruthless fighting for increase in the wages for miner that led to the death of over 33 people on a single day. There could have been better ways to address these issues from a civilized perspective, the modern man way of reasoning so that the problems can be solve once and for all. But, they choose to take the savagery way. To do that as time is still the bane of things to come, they are to put in place mechanism to encourage youths in engaging activities which will make them to be responsible citizens. Like developing sports, providing incentive for them to get educated and making it mandatory to get jobs at the end of it all. Next will be to get at a drawing-board to put at bay the hate crimes on innocent foreigners through dialogue and orientation. There should be provision for students exchanges within different countries of Africa to expose this home-grown or bred youths to be aware of the surroundings beyond their own.

Those have not left out the facts of those whose capacity has immensely contributed to the development of that society, that is, the white people of South Africa. Though, there is a sad history behind what have happened in the past, the same can be said of all colonized nations of the world - the indigenous are always at the receiving end. It is time the black South Africans commend these people efforts and forge ahead. And, they should stop bragging to Nigerians about their country because there is nothing they did to develop that country to the stage it is today. I think Nigerians are even contributing to that country more than many black South African brothers and sisters.

To conclude it all, if the blacks of that society must hold their heads high, it should be done with humility and respect for their big brothers from Nigeria. Then, they will gradually master the act of smartness and travel out to see the world beyond their own fool's paradise.

Thank you.

all4naija: I wonder what the blacks have been doing all this while, even at the hem of affairs and the president has been black since 1991.