all4naija: Huh, huh! What a digressed piece of writing. This your comment never answered question that remains unanswered. I doubt you even open your mind to read what I wrote. If you do and ignore what my comment is all about then you must be one tricky fellow who support some ideology of Afrocentrism as to skin color. That by itself is a crime against humanity. I reasoned you to be among those who don't see beyond their nose and harbor hate of the past deeds with an unforgiving spirit. That I will not agree with in any way to move Africa forward nor stating things they way the are than the way they were in this forum - as I have repeatedly mentioned in this particular thread.

You don't have to teach me about your history and Apartheid regime that inflicted pains and hatred towards the indigenous people of that society. The fight was a long run where both blacks and whites had contributed their parts to make sure it is finally put at bay and let the indigenious people take the right to their destiny. That we have seen they have failed woefully to do. It has even come to a point where blacks are now hunting blacks down in that society. For instance attacking innocent Nigerians on the streets as well as other African immigrants. It would be a surprising thing for you to know that a Nigerian diplomat was recently followed from the airport and shot at by South African criminals, which most of your people were trying to point accusing fingers at Nigerians to be responsible. This has brought to the table of those who care much about Africa by their words of mouth are now indirectly destroying it with their actions.

Before coming here to consolidate your views on the matter about SA and its development you must have ample evidences to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your views are on the right track. That, you have not done with this your comment. It is more of beating around the but to arrive at the fact with has been looking you in the eye. To further explain that, no matter what point you are trying to pass across at the end of the day your are still coming to arrive at the SA development with the whites completely responsible for it in all ramifications. It is what I have been trying to explain you and your people in my previous comments so far. That is something the South African blacks failed to give credence to than seeing only the past injustices that were done by these white people. The reason, I keep saying we must state things they way they are. We can not continue dwelling in the past and expect to move forward in the contemporary, when we know that nothing of the past is physically all rather tangle in the physical part of development of any nation than taking a cue from it to buttress what the present has to offer. I can see the reason why there will remain a huge gap in the inequality of SA for this simple point. Not until the black accept the fact and take the future with vigorous determination, empower the poor and create wealth, it is going to be another long line of reliance on the whites of that society with animosity, while stabbing themselves at the back. That we have seen in some instances in that society. The near distance past incidence of Marakina is one of them.We remember Julius Malema plotting to accelerate the incidence. And, I think others are lurking around on the various SA cities streets ready to unleashed harms on the innocents, most especially, the innocent Nigerians.

If we are to go by your world view on colonization, there is no single country colonized without a background horror of what come with imperialism. It is a ghost of the past. I think the time should be blamed on it rather that skin color. History has proved to all of us the past has always had its bad and good sides for every man, woman child and people. It should not be the reason to hate and continuously cry for way to harbor hate within us. Indeed, we are not in the generation past, for such old things are gone and the new we have to embrace with confidence, as to reality we know. That should be what worth pursuing and holding on to because it is tangle. It is the way things are! There is nothing you can do about it as long as you are already part of it.

It is equally required of you to make changes and learn to be civilized and know when to air your grievances and fight for your rights. Not by resorting to burning of human beings alive as we have seen in the xenophobic atthat resulted in the lost of over 33 miner lives in just a day. What society is SA building with such world view? That to me is question that needs an urgent answer, attention yet your people are no looking into to save the future.

all4naija: South Africa will be in deep sh*t without the white people, that is very obvious. It will be far worst than any nation within the Southern African enclave or region. That is a complete fact!

all4naija: That is not what I am alluding to here. I am alluding to the fact and the reality on ground in your country that the white is responsible for the development of the country in all ramifications.

There has never been a time where the blacks in that society can lay claim to the development of that country. At least, not in our life time. If there is going to be anything the Xhosa or Zulus are going to lay claim to it will be the barbaric inclinations we have seen exhibited in the past. That will include the attacks on innocent Nigerians on the streets and the ruthless fighting for increase in the wages for miner that led to the death of over 33 people on a single day. There could have been better ways to address these issues from a civilized perspective, the modern man way of reasoning so that the problems can be solve once and for all. But, they choose to take the savagery way. To do that as time is still the bane of things to come, they are to put in place mechanism to encourage youths in engaging activities which will make them to be responsible citizens. Like developing sports, providing incentive for them to get educated and making it mandatory to get jobs at the end of it all. Next will be to get at a drawing-board to put at bay the hate crimes on innocent foreigners through dialogue and orientation. There should be provision for students exchanges within different countries of Africa to expose this home-grown or bred youths to be aware of the surroundings beyond their own.

Those have not left out the facts of those whose capacity has immensely contributed to the development of that society, that is, the white people of South Africa. Though, there is a sad history behind what have happened in the past, the same can be said of all colonized nations of the world - the indigenous are always at the receiving end. It is time the black South Africans commend these people efforts and forge ahead. And, they should stop bragging to Nigerians about their country because there is nothing they did to develop that country to the stage it is today. I think Nigerians are even contributing to that country more than many black South African brothers and sisters.

To conclude it all, if the blacks of that society must hold their heads high, it should be done with humility and respect for their big brothers from Nigeria. Then, they will gradually master the act of smartness and travel out to see the world beyond their own fool's paradise.

Thank you.

snydergp:

Nigerians who sell fake goods on the streets and who are 90% hawkers 3% professionals 7% criminals in SA how the hell can 300 000 people who the majority don't even pay tax contribute to SA. Nigerians wherever I see those IGBO clowns are poorly educated wanna be big boys who can't even afford decent housing, majority hire homes/flats/apartments from the same Xhosa/Zulus in Hillbrow/Pretoria.

Get of that nonsense you smoking MTN a company which was started by Black South Africans are now dominating the hole continent in Mobile Networks in Sub Sahara including the Middle East and Nigeria with over 210m subscribers. No Nigerian company including that Dangote can trully say its a Global Brand.

South african companies milk you Aso Rock feather less Eagles dry and repatriate those profits straight to SA.

This is the changing face in SA's economy
http://m.mg.co.za/indecx.php?view=article&urlid=2013-05-03-00-the-black-belt-kicks-in

Hehehe.. It is funny though how you fail to comprehend what I have addressed in my comments. I can only agree with you on Nigerians hawkers to disagree. The fact is that you have labelled them before to be criminals and drug peddlers yet it is clear in this your comment they are doing genuine businesses to survive than resorting to crimes, which the South African blacks themselves are infamous for and unwilly to take up something doing.

Poorly educated and they are not bordering you of yours. They are just good on daily routine hawking of their goods thereby sustaining that country informal economy sector which you are shortsighted to see in this regard. This revelation is an evidence Nigerians are contributing to your economy than the South African blacks. That hawking of CDs, DVDs, and other goods help to reach the poor people in the Townships, Hillbrow, etc. I saw on CNN some weeks ago Robin Corno on Business Africa with two white South Africans doing the same thing by engaging the blacks in the form of hawking(a black South African lady on UNILEVER uniform selling sachet products) to the poor in the Soweto,other slums in the country, etc. Now that Nigerians are doing it to survive(as the originator) it has become a crime committed by them in your society. Indeed, this your comment support the fact Nigerians are contributing to your economy more that large portion of your blacks. It is palpable the reason blacks of that society resort to crimes due to their laziness and prideful lives.

MTN is just a tiny company and unrecognized in the world. It is not even close to low side of Fortune 500 yet you come here to make it looks as if it is doing better than others. That company started to gain ground the first time it entered the Nigerian soil. Thanks to Nigerians that South African blacks are now having something to flaunt about with a good proof. The proof that cannot be complete without Nigeria being mentioned. Truly, Nigeria is your big brother. . International company you called MTN yet forget that Nigerians have a lot of business as well going places like MTN. The Nigerian businesses and other doing well internationally are many, like the First Bank Of Nigerian is in London, New York, Beijing(China),etc. The same can be said of Union bank, UBA, and others. These are Nigerian own not white people's nor like black government sponsored MTN to survive or empower the lazy blacks in that society. The day that company is questioned in SA that day it will seem to cease existing. Keep bragging about your EMPTY HEN that doesn't lay good eggs(according to most Nigerian posters in this forum to the poor service provided by MTN in Nigeria) . What is the meaning of the acronym MTN? if I may asked.

SA is only investing for Nigerians, not what you think it is milking ASo Rock. You would be surprised to know Nigerians are into your companies buying shares why you think they are fully South Africans. Keep fooling yourself and brag in the public while Nigerians are at the background running things. Thanks to Nigerians for their shrewdness in business.

What an insignificant link. That link is of no use to what the condition of Townships is. A poor lives living on the edge in their own papa's land with a notable development and resources going around. It speaks of your inability to see the problems face by those people living in the comfort of squalor of your country's Townships. That is very bad of you to do.

Fix the situation of crimes and xenophobia in your society first before coming here to beat your chest about blacks development in SA.

snydergp:

Its obvious you are a foolish boy.

What is the Southern African enclave we in Southern Africa has never seen a single war/rebbelion in a decade. We in Southern Africa has a by far better living standards compared to west/central african states. West africa is a overcrowded sh**thole with scattered infrastructure even in Nigeria you can't even drink water from a simple tap you need to fetch it from a bore hole, now if all this isn't a typical enclave

The Black middle class in South Africa is larger then its white counterpart today with more buying power and its increasing while the whites are on decline.
http://m.mg.co.za/index.php?view=article&urlid=2013-05-03-00-the-black-belt-economy-kicks-in

There are 80m Nigerians on the brink of starvation daily.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17015873

Go and solve your country's own nonsense and stop focusing on SA and Southern Africa which is has less poverty then the hole of Nigeria combined including west african states.

By the way for interest sake I can fit Nigeria into Botswana that's how small that overcrowded hell hole is.

I will go this route from now on, so focus on your country before you talk nonsense.

Okay. Keep thinking as junior. It pays to be acknowledging facts with reality on ground. You argue the Southern Africa is not an enclave yet it is clear it has been isolated for years due to Apartheid, Zimbabwean political troubles, the HIV/AIDS situation and just to mention but a few. Those are among the elements which make that region to be isolated for years even till today. When that enclave is thought about it is about deadly conditions which have now gradually spread to other parts of Africa. So, I don't need your puffy nature to explain enclave to me because I know what it stands for.

The black middle class of SA is over-exaggerated. It is still the middle class we have been hearing about for years that refuses to make any impact in the life of the blacks. Please, stop speculating when we know that the few whites of that society control 90% of the wealth of the economy. You think that you are speaking to uninformed individual who would quickly be manipulated by your prestidigitation. Another thing, that is a link from SA. I would be interested of you posting links which are coming from other countries observation of the SA economy. Usually, we all know your country to be biased when churning out data about the conditions of blacks.

The BBC link you provided about Nigeria said, 61% and it is of 2004 yet you stated 80% here to make the condition worse. That is laughable and it only soils the credibility of your comment. People are going to see that and starting to take your comments on a doubtful ground. That is poor knowledge coming from you though. You are not well thought in school on how to state facts and provide evidences.

Hehehe... Nigeria situation of things are solvable as we don't have whites to be viewed with animosity as in your society. We don't blame people for our misfortunes as you do in your country. We are not xenophobic when you are lazy to work and quickly take the blame on other innocent African immigrants who are working hard to make ends meet. We are not grappling with claims of being rich yet is in the hands of non-indigenous few. Please, spare me this your usual tirade, it is not longer making any sense. That will not deter me from stating things the way they are about Africa and including your one-eye-nation-of-Africa and the fool's paradise for the black South Africans. .

Proud.SAfrican:
Hello good people I've been following this thread for a while now. I've read most of the comments and all I can gather is all4naija is a complete tool. To him its like white people are the best thing that happened to Africans. "A time came for the advent of fair skin people, who were more organised and civilised into the land." did anyone else find this as clear evidence of his suffering from inferiority complex. Talk about tossing salad.
Say what you will abt my country but nothing you say can take away the achievements we made as a country.

AjanleKoko: I'm not sure South African would be a single nation if there had been no white settlers.
But then, a lot of African nations (Nigeria included) wouldn't have been nations without European colonialism.

So it's kind of irrelevant to ponder over what might have been, if you ask me.

Proud.SAfrican:
Hello good people I've been following this thread for a while now. I've read most of the comments and all I can gather is all4naija is a complete tool. To him its like white people are the best thing that happened to Africans. "A time came for the advent of fair skin people, who were more organised and civilised into the land." did anyone else find this as clear evidence of his suffering from inferiority complex. Talk about tossing salad.
Say what you will abt my country but nothing you say can take away the achievements we made as a country.

Proud.SAfrican:
Hello good people I've been following this thread for a while now. I've read most of the comments and all I can gather is all4naija is a complete tool. To him its like white people are the best thing that happened to Africans. "A time came for the advent of fair skin people, who were more organised and civilised into the land." did anyone else find this as clear evidence of his suffering from inferiority complex. Talk about tossing salad.
Say what you will abt my country but nothing you say can take away the achievements we made as a country.

zetdee:
lovely username.

Don't take much of what the guy says seriously, been following him for some, I thought he was some free thinker. The guy is just a troll, reminds me of one Somali supremacist i was having a discussion with, no matter what points i raised he just wanted to have the last word, even contradicting himself

snydergp:

Its obvious you are a foolish boy.

What is the Southern African enclave we in Southern Africa has never seen a single war/rebbelion in a decade. We in Southern Africa has a by far better living standards compared to west/central african states. West africa is a overcrowded sh**thole with scattered infrastructure even in Nigeria you can't even drink water from a simple tap you need to fetch it from a bore hole, now if all this isn't a typical enclave

The Black middle class in South Africa is larger then its white counterpart today with more buying power and its increasing while the whites are on decline.
http://m.mg.co.za/index.php?view=article&urlid=2013-05-03-00-the-black-belt-economy-kicks-in

There are 80m Nigerians on the brink of starvation daily.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17015873

Go and solve your country's own nonsense and stop focusing on SA and Southern Africa which is has less poverty then the hole of Nigeria combined including west african states.

By the way for interest sake I can fit Nigeria into Botswana that's how small that overcrowded hell hole is.

I will go this route from now on, so focus on your country before you talk nonsense.

olire: oga you are talking jackshit. It is on the news today that desmond tut won't vote for ANC because of the corruption introduced. You are where you are today beacause thw whites ruled for a long time. I can bet my fucking arse that if your black pple rule for 10 more years. You will c where you will be. So my brother stop arguing and concede to the fqact that you are better because whites helped. Look at Zimbabwe. Whites ruled for some tym but when Mugabe entered. He has been there for years and we all know their story.

zetdee:

My friend I agree South Africa is ahead because unlike other African countriey it had an educated population which was majority white, other African countries were colonies and the colonial governments didn't invest in any human resources like building schools and university in their colonies, that would have allowed the population to developed their countries very early after gaining independence. South Africa is ahead not simply because we have white people, but because we had a population that was highly educated therefore could industrialise and build a modern country, a country like ukraine has over 44million whites, but its backward compared to some african countries. Zimbabwe didn't fail because white people left, it failed because of Mygabe not wanting to step down and international sanctions that crippled the Zimbabwe economy. Zimbabwe has the highesy literacy rate in Africa and the agricultural sector is now back to the level it was before land grabs, Zimbabwe unfortunately didn't invest much in infrastructure but it did invest alot in aducation, there are many black Zimbabwean professionals working in south africa who will return as soon as the political situation gets resolved. The current ANC government is not perfect but it did not introduce corruption, there was massive corruption during the apartheid government, desmond tutu is just disappointed that the current government is not as perfect as he would like it to, it's his right to support another party. Though the country has problems, South Africa is investing alot in infrastructure and education, it's unlikely we'll end up in the situation that Zimbabwe finds itself because we have rule of law and the government cannot do anything that is unconstitutional, our media plus the international community keeping a very close eye on our government so it doesn't commit the same mistakes that Zimbabwe did. Botswana is another southern African country that is black run and doing very well.

www.moesac.gov.zw/index.php/home/80-zimbabwe-tops-africas-literacy-rate

www.whatishappeninginsouthafrica..com/2013/05/we-can-learn-from-zimbabwes-flourishing.html?m=1

zetdee:

My friend I agree South Africa is ahead because unlike other African countriey it had an educated population which was majority white, other African countries were colonies and the colonial governments didn't invest in any human resources like building schools and university in their colonies, that would have allowed the population to developed their countries very early after gaining independence. South Africa is ahead not simply because we have white people, but because we had a population that was highly educated therefore could industrialise and build a modern country, a country like ukraine has over 44million whites, but its backward compared to some african countries. Zimbabwe didn't fail because white people left, it failed because of Mygabe not wanting to step down and international sanctions that crippled the Zimbabwe economy. Zimbabwe has the highesy literacy rate in Africa and the agricultural sector is now back to the level it was before land grabs, Zimbabwe unfortunately didn't invest much in infrastructure but it did invest alot in aducation, there are many black Zimbabwean professionals working in south africa who will return as soon as the political situation gets resolved. The current ANC government is not perfect but it did not introduce corruption, there was massive corruption during the apartheid government, desmond tutu is just disappointed that the current government is not as perfect as he would like it to, it's his right to support another party. Though the country has problems, South Africa is investing alot in infrastructure and education, it's unlikely we'll end up in the situation that Zimbabwe finds itself because we have rule of law and the government cannot do anything that is unconstitutional, our media plus the international community keeping a very close eye on our government so it doesn't commit the same mistakes that Zimbabwe did. Botswana is another southern African country that is black run and doing very well.

www.moesac.gov.zw/index.php/home/80-zimbabwe-tops-africas-literacy-rate

www.whatishappeninginsouthafrica..com/2013/05/we-can-learn-from-zimbabwes-flourishing.html?m=1

olire: now that's a better way to talk: unlike the other guy that was just lashing out. You have given us the reason and your not arguing. Kudos

snydergp:

So all that nonsense all4naija wrote isn't lashing out, so when people like you comment we in SA should sit aside and agree with all the ish you guys usually write.

Read some of your countryman's posts then you'll see real backward arguing.

all4naija: When has stating facts become backward argument? Only in SA it is backward because they are used to being deceived of the reality of their society.

snydergp:

Ye right the only backward thing I see is a country named Nigeria where corruption, jailing of innocent journalist, mass murders by soldiers, kidnappings and the distortion of hiv stats is the order of the day.


Fix that shith*ole of country where 100m people have never even seen a light bulb

Proud.SAfrican:
All4naija you insult all black people and label it facts. By the way I never said nigerias toss salad that was just for you. I don't know why you seem to think that white people are some kind of blessing for black people their achievements count for nothing cause of all the suffering they have caused. I don't think my ancestors sitting around waiting for them. I'll say nothing about Nigerians my opinion will be biased cause all the ones I know are drug dealers and pimps they foul mouthed and unbearable. Yes I thank the white people for the South Africa they built on the backs of Black people and all other people that were oppressed in this land. May our suffering, bloodshed and torment fertilise the soil so it may bare fruits so that all those who lived through the suffering may have opportunities to better their lives. We will walk tall no matter what you say. With out white people where would we be? Well that's an question only God can give a definite answer.

all4naija: Leave God out of this matter. Without white people your country would be worse than Somalia. That is a fact.

all4naija: Leave God out of this matter. Without white people your country would be worse than Somalia. That is a fact.

Proud.SAfrican:
uhm genius its not a fact, it has not occurred nor can you prove that with out a doubt that South Africa without would be just like Somalia. If it indeed is a fact you wouldn't mind providing us evidence to support your fact. So all4naija please prove your statement to be fact.

all4naija: Thank you for this your quiet approach and it makes things to be relaxed a bit. If you have been following my comments in this thread you would see where are stated them fairly in details. To point to some of them for you, xenophobia in a condition of poor development without the whites in SA would turn things back into the stone age making it worse than Somalia. Incessant attacks on innocent foreigners on the streets will make SA without the white man development looks like a nation in war all rather a failed state, and just to mentioned but a few.

Thank you, once again.

Proud.SAfrican:


Well now lets look at removing the "white mans" development from South Africa, now to truely achieve that we would have to completely remove the white man from south Africa's history. Now once that is done things start to change there are no more Indians there are no coloured people there was never any apartheid no great trek no gold rush, anything that came to being as a direct or indirect result of white men arriving in south Africa. Now then please continue your attempts at proving your statement to be fact that South Africa would be like Somalia if it wasnt because of white people.

Oh remember do not use any of points you raised in your previous post because they are now irrelevant.

Uyi Iredia:

Which only goes the point some people made that South Africa wouldn't have achieved their current level of development without the whites. Something I strongly believe.