all4naija: It is not about the European contribution alone but the mechanism that runs everything till present day is still largely their work with crumbs left for the indigenous people. It beats me to the fact that you put it lightly as if the enormous contribution is not only what is clear among the reasons why South Africa is different from other African nations within the continent. The economy is still controlled by the few and the wide gap in wealth is the highest in the world yet you don't see that as discouraging.

South African blacks are so comfortable with poverty as their Nigerian counterparts who wouldn't dare to fight for their rights. Coming here to lay claim to your life in SA speaks about your inability to see the others who are languishing in the squalor of Townships. The difference between you and other exposes the reason why the inequality in that society will remain to be accepted with equanimity. I doubt you know what such pain means to millions of lives that are going through it routinely in their papa's land.

I hate when people come around to point to the development without weighing into the relevance of such disparity in the society while few who are really benefiting are doing so to the detriment of the people who could have been active agents in the society and be uplifted from poverty. This is the same case that is being replicated through out Africa. It is not going to move the continent forward, if we continue in that direction.

From many histories and arguments in this thread there are evidences South Africa wouldn't have been able to achieve its development to this stage without the white people. That most be said and commended, despite their past dehumanizing of the indigenous people. I still think the whites are the brains behind what the black South Africans are flaunting here while attacking fellow black immigrants in their streets. It brings to the limelight how dangerous that society has become after knowing fully well the development is not their own hand work.

I still say it here, with all unequivocal stance that the white in SA is what make the different or else the country would have been a worse state as worse as Madagascar, a not too distant place.

DictatorZAR:

Ok the fool has returned even when people who knows first hand about SA and have continuesly dismissed these claims. You as a outsider who has never even sat foot within 50km of southern africa talk as if you know more about SA's economy and social fabric.

Now if it wasn't for BP, Shell and Chevron where would Nigeria be because even Somali's Mogadishu would seem like Utopia. Nigeria with its socalled blacks only rulers and overbloated FG elites are today sitting on a ethnic and religious time bomb which can explode any day where even your SS Mossab leaders have expressed that Nigeria is close to a SS(Igbo) and Northerner(Hausa/fulani) civil war, where even your clueless GEJ has now offered Amnesty to Boko Boys in order to avert a war and to hide its security clusters lack of competent leadership in tackling your increasingly dangerous Northern states like Kanu.


This incompetence speaks volumes of Nigeria and its leadership, compared to other african nations who Nigerians on this very forum find inferior to them by constantly bashing countries then claim innocence the same why you Mr all4naija has done on numerous occasions by diverting topics.

Another thing its shameful of you to continuesly tell other africans that there countries would be worst of if not for whites or other colonial regime while totally forgetting that even 70% of Nigeria's laws today are informed by Western Roman Dutch Laws, to the fact that even your own citizens are turning to Western courts to settle there disputes with Nigeria's FG and the very same multinational companies who exploit Nigeria's vulnerable people.

Nigerian terrorist inclined nationals are now running havoc in some areas to the extend that even Lagos and Abuja has now become targets for these people and where even sleeping dogs like MEND has now called your FG bluff by killing 13 policeman on a boat recently just so that your FG could negotiate and ask for SA to release Nigerian Outlaw Henry Oka who currently serves a 24year jail sentence.

You ALL4NAIJA seems to be a hard headed fellow who has a particular agenda when it comes to SA/Nigeria and other african nations, you want everyone to respect you yet you fail horribly to extend a hand in kind, but you always make as if foreigners who by the way can't even walk the streets of Lagos without fear of being kidnapped scammed or killed in Nigeria are safer and don't even get killed in numbers in Nigeria.

There's a need for you to look in detail not just selective response to what others post on this topic, but I will certainly await another defensive move by you again without really making sense.

Stop making other countries your personal point of reference when trying to way up SA without whites it is totally disingenuous and in bad taste, because you totally lack the credentials to do such a analysis fact.

I will await your rantings

mr_ogee: me "flaunting" as you say about my life in SA is evident that black people's quality of life is improving steadily considering that we are 19yrs old. This inequality idea which seems to fascinate you so much just shows your ignorance, its the legacy of apartheid and our goverment is making strides at alleviating it hence we have affirmitive action, social welfare and goverment initiatives incouraging entrepreneurship amongst black folk. Have you been to a South african townships by the way? Coz i happen to live in one. Lol your assumption about me enjoying my life cause i dont know how poor people in the township live.There is a rise in the black middle class in the townships for your info. To say SA would be worse off without white influence? Tell us why? Coz this is very presumptious of you, unless you think black people are useless or inferior to whites...infact sithwell pointed out that apartheid actually hindered SA economy coz it excluded a majority in the development of the countries economy. Real question you should ask is why your country is struggling compared to SA, despite being liberated much longer, greater population having resources such as oil and yes also having "white influence"? Deal with your own matters before sitting on a pedastal

all4naija: I can not keep repeating the same thing over and over again for you to comprehend the matter has been trashed out with evidences pointing to facts I mentioned in most of my comments.

If you want to know why Nigeria is struggling, with its abundant oil resources, compare to SA exposes the fact that SA could have even been a worse case scenario if white people were not in the hem of affairs of that country for centuries.

You keep looking for answer right at your nose. I don't know why you are refusing to accept what is fact and reality on ground.

The large numbers of white people in SA society makes the difference of what become SA of today's development! That is a complete fact!

DictatorZAR:

So you can look back to 1912 when Apartheids, first tentacles spawned.

So the larger black majority, colored and indians don't make a difference in SA. So we blacks who went and studied engineering who own our own companies today who builds roads and other infrastructures are not contributing to SA.
You lack knowledge about SA post apartheid and even pre apartheid.

You try to tell us that we have no say in our economy yet we SA blacks, coloreds and indians are contributing in every sector of the economy since 1994 when there was practically 0000 infrastructure in Townships, where we south africans started from scratch in areas like Coega industrial zone which today is one of the worlds biggest deep water ports which blacks were mainly contracted to build.

I'm tired to respond to a man who are hard headed who refuse to come and see for himself what's really going on in SA.

I will insult you the same way you u insult us on this forum. The feelings mutual.

zetdee: so nigerian and other africans must face the unfotunate fact that their country will never be as developed as south africa because they have no white people.

all4naija: In fact the title is giving to much respect to black South Africans. It should have read " Where Would South Africa Be Without Nigerians". I know they would still be fight on the streets with clubs, sticks and stones like the Palestinians. Thanks to Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Nigerians and other Africans. Hehehe...

DictatorZAR:

This just shows your ignorance about SA history. So a $10m donation from Nigerians in 1970's equates to help. Tanzania, Zambia, Angola including the Russians gave far more to the struggle then Nigeria they gave there lives. It seems you continuesly look for sh*it that will satisfy your Egotistical mindset.

So besides Mandela, what about people who gave there lives at Sharpville, what about Hector Peterson, Steve Biko and Chris Hanni. You are a foolish mumu looking for attention. Where would Nigeria be without Shell, BP and Total who still r*apes your country today.

$10 million donation in 1970's and you have the gut to say it is not help! I am not looking for sh*t, I am stating things the way they are. You lots would still be fighting with clubs, sticks and throwing stones on the streets by now if not for Mandela, Desmond Tutu, others and the Nigerians. You need to thank your fate we came to your aid when it's necessary. However, we will always come to your aid in time of financial crisis, and otherwise. Indeed, you need a tap at the back from us. Just keep cool my friend, we are on top of the situation and we will solve everything accordingly so that your future will be well guaranteed.

How dare you call me foolish mumu? I can only be one of them.

zetdee: south africa would be a far better and safer place if it deported 99% of nigerians, that i'm certain of.

all4naija: Lol... It is clear SA was far worse before Nigerians started coming to that nation. So, your statement is very biased and xenophobic in nature. Well, to be xenophobic is part of South Africans - both of them can not be separated.

AwodwaGyanOniwe: @All4Naija
You're a 60 year old Nigerian CUNT You keep dishing us boring history.

No! I am not 60 years old I am 23-year-old man. One doesn't need to be that old to know what happened in the past. The information is available everywhere. It is up to anybody to search for it.

zetdee:
my 9ja brother my words were not xenophobic in nature, i was stating a fact about the type of nigerian that tends to immigrate to South Africa. I would encourage more skilled and honest Africans to come here, my electrical engineering lecture was from 9ja, he's one of my best friends and shares my views about deporting a large number of nigerians. Go take a look at hillbrow on YouTube or Google earth, me and you can be very good buddies, i like the way think.

all4naija: Lol... It is clear SA was far worse before Nigerians started coming to that nation. So, your statement is very biased and xenophobic in nature. Well, to be xenophobic is part of South Africans - both of them can not be separated.

sweetcheecks:

Envy is gonna kill you. Shame I understand you are trying to cope with your helplessness. Start by getting out of your ZOMBIE mode, take the same sticks and stones and get to the streets maybe just maybe you government will listen than typing garbage on here protecting your useless goverment.

all4naija: Welcome back lady sweet. But, your argument usually takes the form of insult and that doesn't tell well of you. By the time you must have learnt your lesson and come back here you will understand I don't take sh*ts from South Africans in this forum.

I am not going to take stick and club to fight because I am civilized and I understand the need for dialogue. Unlike most primitive South Africans licking the sharp edge of swords and throwing stones to pass their grievances across.

Helpless in what sense? Do you mean to say we are doing our best to make sure the terrorist infiltration is dealt with completely and better democratic government is put in place? Unlike your country that is one party system with biased intentions only.

Please, stop using the world jealous as your country has nothing I should be jealous of, not to mention xenophobia and HIV/AIDS in high rate.

DictatorZAR:

Hey FOOL read here
http://world.time.com/2013/04/21/officials-fighting-between-nigeria-military-islamic-extremists-kills-at-least-185/

Now is that democracy.

Go to Amnesty International reports on Nigeria and its socalled democracy.

GEJ arrested journalist earlier this month does constitute freedom of expression by any means.
http://peoplesdailyng.com/fg-slams-10-count-charge-against-leadership-editors/

There's also been numerous reports on FG trying to hide the true state of Nigeria's poverty.

Can you tell me why FG has band a documentary on poverty in Nigeria, is this the doing of a APC corrupt goverment trying to hide the true state of Nigeria
http://mobile.saharareporters.com/news/page/fg-bans-film-nigerian-poverty-places-producer-under-security-watch-premium-times

On the issue of SA being a 1 party state I really laugh at your uneducated *ss you think ANC is in total control please. The DA controls the second biggest economic zone in SA namely Western Cape and a few local goverment areas in johannesburg. The ANC doesn't even have a outright two-third majority in parliament in SA, there are more opposition parties represented in SA's Parliament then any other country on this continent.

By the way SA has more woman in Parliament then any other country on this continent even Uganda is more gender representative then Nigeria in this regard. Nigeria is a highly backward patriarchal society compared to SA, and that's a fact.

Now I will await another bigotry statement avout xenophobia this and that because that's been your trademark on this forum.

I must say I am a little bit indifferent about your comment though. Now you allude to the fact that Boko Haram should be left to kill the Nigerian JTF and the civilians for democracy sake, as to the first link. How Time news got the factual information from the scene is still a challenge to me when it involved a border insurgency that Nigerian Joint Task Force at the scene stated the obvious. Are you trying to say we should be soft on terrorism? It is still the same TIME news that will quickly say Nigerian government is soft on terror if this kind of action is not taken. The murdered civilians in Nigerian case were used as human shields by Boko Haram who used military grade weapons on the civilians that were in the thatch houses that resulted in the burning down of those village houses.

Mandatory poverty because that is what the international press knows what to talk about with a skewed presentation when it comes to Africa. Isn't the same thing you complained about your country has been degraded by BBC and other press reports to make it looks third-ish?!

SA is recognizably as one party nation. There is no any political party that can win and elect a leader in the next 100 years to come in that country than ANC. Please, the DA is just a whistle blower that has nothing meaningful to offer in the election. Mind you,the party system is so polarized that you would feel the animosity in that country quickly, through the eye of politic. I still wonder how SA is rated high in the freedom accessement of all nations. I have my disagreement with the Nigerian press freedom but SA is sliding down among the top 50 in the word. Nigeria is even doing better on comparison of the past with the present index.

It is clear, politically, SA is a polarized nation. And, will not achieve much without the Whites in some hem of affairs due to this discrepancy.

blitz8701: The real question here my friend is 'how would Africa even be recognized as existent if it wasn't for SA?'

Hehehe... My ribs hurt for laughing hard and loud! Before SA was known many parts of Africa have been trading with outside world. You forget to talk about the Cradle of civilization, Egypt. Don't be fooled by your infrastructural development. When it comes to history and recognition SA is on the low side of the scale.

Country like Ethiopia, Libya, Tunis have been exposed to the outside world for long with good historical outlooks before your over-bloated country. In fact, the name Africa originated from that region. Mind you, Europeans dwellers had settlements in these parts of Africa for long time and their civilization is seen around cities and towns in parches.

Please, stop alluding to false information your country is instilling in you. Get out of your country's comfort zone and step into other parts of Africa to understand how uniquely diverse the continent is despite it is riddled with faces of poverty and poor development.

Olwe: The question should be How would Nigerians survive without SA,London,America ect.. The way they are flogging into other people's country. Yall are running to countries where there are more white people,I wonder why?Is SA is where it is because of white people, bullsh*t!! We where we are becz of our uncles,aunt, grandparents who died fighting for this beautiful country. Whites might have a contribution to the economy in their own way but we (blacks) are working our ass off for our country's economy. unlike Nigerians who wanna destroy it because of their so called business which mainly means drug business and trafficking .

Lastly, you nigerians always bring up the HIV/Aids rate. The reason why our HIV/Aids rate is high it is becz we go and get tested. Unlike nigerians who will not got even if a person is sick, you will blame it one the gods and being bewitch. you also be fearing what will people say, all you think about is what will people say but a person is dying. I suggest majority of you here at NR to Encourage your people to get tested and also your government should try and educate you people about HIV/aids yall lack knowledge about it. Lastly SA is not the only african country with a high rate of HIV/Aids...

Keep fooling your a$$. You should asked yourself why are there Indians and Chinese in your country if you think SA is surviving Nigerians. Hehehe... It means SA is also surviving those two big countries. You are just pathetic you are not exposed. Keep living in your lala's land and don't step out to see things for yourself. That country is brainwashing you guys and the reason why you resort to primitive ways to settle issues, like the Marakina mine incidence,etc.

Nigerians are just a little smarter than your a$$ and they find your country to be a haven for drug users they decided to bring in their biz. Lol.... . It is up to your leader to police the criminals not by attacking innocent Nigerians on the streets , which just proved my point of your primitive approach to issues.

You are deceived to think Nigerian HIV/AIDS will be higher than SA in the future . The government and the WHO are not folding their hands and therefore HIV/AIDS can only get more awareness to be put at bay very soon. Maybe before the end of half the century the condition you alluding to might be found a cure. . Shame on your hatred for Nigeria. You're never gonna get it! PERIOD. Step out of your SA comfort zone, loner!

The world is already becoming a global village, a community, and Nigeria is a part of it. We can only get better beyond the condition we found ourselves in the hand of the failed leaders and poverty. We are getting to the top to knock SA from its position. It sad though to hear it by South Africans in this forum! Sorry, but we can't help it and that is the reality. We are meant to be a winner. Don't hate it mate. One love!!!

all4naija: Keep fooling your a$$. You should asked yourself why are there Indians and Chinese in your country if you think SA is surviving Nigerians. Hehehe... It means SA is also surviving those two big countries. You are just pathetic you are not exposed. Keep living in your lala's land and don't step out to see things for yourself. That country is brainwashing you guys and the reason why you resort to primitive ways to settle issues, like the Marakina mine incidence,etc.

Nigerians are just a little smarter than your a$$ and they find your country to be a haven for drug users they decided to bring in their biz. Lol.... . It is up to your leader to police the criminals not by attacking innocent Nigerians on the streets , which just proved my point of your primitive approach to issues.

You are deceived to think Nigerian HIV/AIDS will be higher than SA in the future . The government and the WHO are not folding their hands and therefore HIV/AIDS can only get more awareness to be put at bay very soon. Maybe before the end of half the century the condition you alluding to might be found a cure. . Shame on your hatred for Nigeria. You're never gonna get it! PERIOD. Step out of your SA comfort zone, loner!

The world is already becoming a global village, a community, and Nigeria is a part of it. We can only get better beyond the condition we found ourselves in the hand of the failed leaders and poverty. We are getting to the top to knock SA from its position. It sad though to hear it by South Africans in this forum! Sorry, but we can't help it and that is the reality. We are meant to be a winner. Don't hate it mate. One love!!!

zetdee:
okay now you're just being silly, why do you think south Africa is sitting still and waiting for Nigeria to surpass us when our government invests so much more than Nigeria in human development and provides all the basics like health and education when Nigeria is still regressing due to its high fertility and high corruption. South Africans dislike nigerians because they bring so much destruction to our beautiful cities, wherever there is a high concentration of nigerian it's the same storyry of drugs, prostitution, run down buildings and crime.

all4naija: Hehehe... You are just one sad individual! SA has been a den of drug users, poverty scene of blacks(due to its world unbeatable inequality record). Most of the buildings in Hillbrows,according to images available online, are run-downs and blaming Nigerians for your problem exposes the inability of your blacks to stand up to their responsibility. I saw on CNN Business Africa by Robyn Corno Two young white co-founders bringing business to the poor neighborhood. Indeed, this is revealing that blacks just fold their hands and continue to blame Nigerians for their failures.

Nigeria has the population, the best resources are the human resources and there is none like them. It is just up to the leaders of Nigeria to tap into it and Nigeria will be the next China of Africa. That your country is aware of and afraid of your country being removed in the near future.

Stay away from accusing Nigerians for your country problems, they are your problems not Nigerians. The Marakina problem all rather inequality is South Africans problem not Nigerians. The Polarized politic is South Africans problem not Nigerians. The poor policing can not be said to be caused by Nigerians, that we have seen the villains committing crime against humanity without any prosecution. Yet many of you would come around to lay claim to false information to deceive people. The murders carried out in your society is 90% percent responsible by your people.If you women chose to be use by Nigerian pimps that is their own ball game and Nigerians are not to blame. Steer clear from passing wrong information around here and stop lying about Nigerians. If your government don't find them useful in your society they should send them packing. There is nothing new about deportation.

The white is your society is still the reason why that country is different from any other sub-Saharan countries. That is your savior and the only reason you have to brag about your development.

DictatorZAR:

So you can look back to 1912 when Apartheids, first tentacles spawned.

So the larger black majority, colored and indians don't make a difference in SA. So we blacks who went and studied engineering who own our own companies today who builds roads and other infrastructures are not contributing to SA.
You lack knowledge about SA post apartheid and even pre apartheid.

You try to tell us that we have no say in our economy yet we SA blacks, coloreds and indians are contributing in every sector of the economy since 1994 when there was practically 0000 infrastructure in Townships, where we south africans started from scratch in areas like Coega industrial zone which today is one of the worlds biggest deep water ports which blacks were mainly contracted to build.

naptu2: This entire thread is such a waste of space!