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Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 4:04pm On Apr 17, 2012
It is no news that Islamophobia is at is highest in recent times because of extremists that give the religion a bad name. Furthermore, many nations with that have a significant muslim population (eg Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Tunisia) are having serious political conflicts and instability. This really gives the muslim world a very bad name to many non-muslims.

What makes this matter worse is the media in the West which hardly promotes islam in a good light- you're more likely to see pictures of islamic terrorists than those showing true islam. However, one can counter the bias of the Western media by saying that Saudis and some other Arabs have investments in American media, why dont they try to give islam a balanced view in the media?


Considering local issues, we have seen some muslim leaders in Nigeria condemn the activities of Boko Haram but dont you think that if the governors fail in the end to stop Boko Haram, it will have bad consequences for the religion and northern states in Nigeria?


Also concerning local issues, don't you feel that by having a separate section for only Islam, the moderators are making non-muslims feel that islam is a bit intolerant?


I'm an atheist and I ask these questions only out of curiousity. I mean no disrespect and await your responses
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by jagunlabi(m): 4:23pm On Apr 17, 2012
It will eventually die under the weight of it's killing ignorance.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 4:25pm On Apr 17, 2012
jagunlabi: It will eventually die under the weight of it's killing ignorance.

Hey, calm down. Give a well thought answer please!
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Kay17: 4:30pm On Apr 17, 2012
What puzzles me about islam is its rules and the manner its being followed by its adherents. There is zero rationale behind other than please God. Most of them are at the point of absurdity
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 4:49pm On Apr 17, 2012
Kay 17: What puzzles me about islam is its rules and the manner its being followed by its adherents. There is zero rationale behind other than please God. Most of them are at the point of absurdity
sad sad angry
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Maisuya1: 5:25pm On Apr 17, 2012
Islam survived the crusades and other external threats at medeval times when it was more easier to wipe out an ideology. that said....

you should know that islam is a way of life not a religion. so when you ask if islam wount survive d next 20 years, are you talking about;

POLITICAL ISLAM; which as practiced by most so called islamic states has no islamic bases (by supressing your own people, absolute mornachy was not endorsed by islam). Our own Usman bin fodio sumarized it with these beautiful words 'a nation can survive with disbelief in God, but no nation can survive with injustice'

ISLAMIC ECONOMICS; this area is actually growing and becomming more robhust, evident from the exponential increasing in assets managed under islamic principles. a noteworthy subsection is islamic finance.

ISLAMIC SPIRITUALITY; i can assure you that ironically or miraculously even with the current onslaught on the islamic identity both by the western media and ignorant fundementalists. more and more people are reverting to islam from countries especially in the west were, scholarship is still valued, and any sincere truth seeker who picks up the islamic sources recognises the disconect between the media narrative and the so called islamic fundementalist on one hand and the true islamic teachings.

Although i must add that to the muslims the above mentioned areas (whic are not exhaustive) are not independent of each other, infact politics, economics and spirituality in islam are not exclusive of each other, they are rather dependent on each other. so yes the political islam as seen today may not survive, but that is part of the new islamic renaissance

4 Likes

Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by rastamouse: 5:51pm On Apr 17, 2012
Don't mind that atheist. He is just here to mock you guys grin
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 8:00pm On Apr 17, 2012
rastamouse: Don't mind that atheist. He is just here to mock you guys grin

Lol....I choose not to mock muslims because they are less likely to derail my question and condemn me to hell unlike nairaland christians like you.

You sound hurt, maybe you should convert to islam! grin
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 8:03pm On Apr 17, 2012
Mai-suya:
Islam survived the crusades and other external threats at medeval times when it was more easier to wipe out an ideology. that said....

you should know that islam is a way of life not a religion. so when you ask if islam wount survive d next 20 years, are you talking about;

POLITICAL ISLAM; which as practiced by most so called islamic states has no islamic bases (by supressing your own people, absolute mornachy was not endorsed by islam). Our own Usman bin fodio sumarized it with these beautiful words 'a nation can survive with disbelief in God, but no nation can survive with injustice'

ISLAMIC ECONOMICS; this area is actually growing and becomming more robhust, evident from the exponential increasing in assets managed under islamic principles. a noteworthy subsection is islamic finance.

ISLAMIC SPIRITUALITY; i can assure you that ironically or miraculously even with the current onslaught on the islamic identity both by the western media and ignorant fundementalists. more and more people are reverting to islam from countries especially in the west were, scholarship is still valued, and any sincere truth seeker who picks up the islamic sources recognises the disconect between the media narrative and the so called islamic fundementalist on one hand and the true islamic teachings.

Although i must add that to the muslims the above mentioned areas (whic are not exhaustive) are not independent of each other, infact politics, economics and spirituality in islam are not exclusive of each other, they are rather dependent on each other. so yes the political islam as seen today may not survive, but that is part of the new islamic renaissance


Thanks for your answer. I agree with you on political islam. However, I am not too sure about Islamic economics seeing as "riba" serioulsy reduces profit making for banks
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by tbaba1234: 4:51am On Apr 18, 2012
Mai-suya:
Islam survived the crusades and other external threats at medeval times when it was more easier to wipe out an ideology. that said....

you should know that islam is a way of life not a religion. so when you ask if islam wount survive d next 20 years, are you talking about;

POLITICAL ISLAM; which as practiced by most so called islamic states has no islamic bases (by supressing your own people, absolute mornachy was not endorsed by islam). Our own Usman bin fodio sumarized it with these beautiful words 'a nation can survive with disbelief in God, but no nation can survive with injustice'

ISLAMIC ECONOMICS; this area is actually growing and becomming more robhust, evident from the exponential increasing in assets managed under islamic principles. a noteworthy subsection is islamic finance.

ISLAMIC SPIRITUALITY; i can assure you that ironically or miraculously even with the current onslaught on the islamic identity both by the western media and ignorant fundementalists. more and more people are reverting to islam from countries especially in the west were, scholarship is still valued, and any sincere truth seeker who picks up the islamic sources recognises the disconect between the media narrative and the so called islamic fundementalist on one hand and the true islamic teachings.

Although i must add that to the muslims the above mentioned areas (whic are not exhaustive) are not independent of each other, infact politics, economics and spirituality in islam are not exclusive of each other, they are rather dependent on each other. so yes the political islam as seen today may not survive, but that is part of the new islamic renaissance

What is practised today is not political islam:::

The dictatorships in the muslim world have been largely based on secular ideologies. A monarchy is not the islamic system of government.

The fact is that there is no state in the world practising islam as a political system.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by tbaba1234: 4:54am On Apr 18, 2012
This topic is meaningless because Islam is growing inspite of negative publicity particularly in the west and south east asia.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by maclatunji: 7:12am On Apr 18, 2012
OP, you are not serious. Islam WILL always exist. If Islam could be wiped-out, the prime place for that to happen would have been Afghanistan. Just go and read the country's history over the last 250-300 years.

If Islam is still thriving in Afghanistan you should know the correct answer to your question.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Kay17: 8:53am On Apr 18, 2012
tbaba1234:

What is practised today is not political islam:::

The dictatorships in the muslim world have been largely based on secular ideologies. A monarchy is not the islamic system of government.

The fact is that there is no state in the world practising islam as a political system.
pls mention two islamic states that are not monarchies rather from the inception of Islam. Ottoman empire, Muhammed's fiefdom are struck since they are both monarchies
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 10:30am On Apr 18, 2012
tbaba1234: This topic is meaningless because Islam is growing inspite of negative publicity particularly in the west and south east asia.


You forget two things;

1) A former muslim who is an atheist is more likely to be quiet about his/her atheism due to some islamic laws on apostasy

2) Islam is growing but the question remains; which countries are experiencing the growth in Islam? Are the countries economically stable?
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 10:32am On Apr 18, 2012
maclatunji: OP, you are not serious. Islam WILL always exist. If Islam could be wiped-out, the prime place for that to happen would have been Afghanistan. Just go and read the country's history over the last 250-300 years.

If Islam is still thriving in Afghanistan you should know the correct answer to your question.




Good answer. Howver, Afghanistan doesnt look like a country with all the US occupation.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by maclatunji: 10:38am On Apr 18, 2012
logicboy:




Good answer. Howver, Afghanistan doesnt look like a country with all the US occupation.

Sheesh! America recognizes Afghanistan as a country with its own sovereignty. So, what can I say about you regarding that? Not much!
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by tbaba1234: 2:25pm On Apr 18, 2012
logicboy:


You forget two things;

1) A former muslim who is an atheist is more likely to be quiet about his/her atheism due to some islamic laws on apostasy

2) Islam is growing but the question remains; which countries are experiencing the growth in Islam? Are the countries economically stable?

1. What Apostasy law? How many countries have Islamic laws? The apostasy law is only applicable to people who Proselytize their new faith in an Islamic state. Most muslim countries have secular laws not Islamic laws.... We see that these countries as they gain their 'freedoms' vote for islamic government.

Tunisia voted for Al-nadha, an islamic party after years of secularism under ben ali
Egypt voted for the muslim brotherhood, and a salafist party after mubarak.
The same will happen in libya.

Given an option, muslims will vote for islam over any form of secular government. Our pride and honour was when we had Islam ruling us.

Trust me, if you know a little about the Quran... Atheism is not an option anyway. Do you ever hear of Muslim scholars leaving Islam?

2. The west and south east asia drive the global economies so whatever happens there affects the global economies.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 3:52pm On Apr 18, 2012
maclatunji:

Sheesh! America recognizes Afghanistan as a country with its own sovereignty. So, what can I say about you regarding that? Not much!


Really? How would you like to have a holiday there? The chaos caused by the US occupation there and the taliban there has shoved the country into anarchy. Afghanistan is only a country in theory

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Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 3:57pm On Apr 18, 2012
tbaba1234:

1. What Apostasy law? How many countries have Islamic laws? The apostasy law is only applicable to people who Proselytize their new faith in an Islamic state. Most muslim countries have secular laws not Islamic laws.... We see that these countries as they gain their 'freedoms' vote for islamic government.

Tunisia voted for Al-nadha, an islamic party after years of secularism under ben ali
Egypt voted for the muslim brotherhood, and a salafist party after mubarak.
The same will happen in libya.

Given an option, muslims will vote for islam over any form of secular government. Our pride and honour was when we had Islam ruling us.

Trust me, if you know a little about the Quran... Atheism is not an option anyway. Do you ever hear of Muslim scholars leaving Islam?

2. The west and south east asia drive the global economies so whatever happens there affects the global economies.


The coptic christians in Egypt say different

As for apostacy, you sadden me. Do you really want to tell me that people have not been punished (executed) for apostacy?

Anyways, it is good that you gave a detailed answer to my questions. Thanks!
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by vedaxcool(m): 6:36pm On Apr 19, 2012
logicboy: It is no news that Islamophobia is at is highest in recent times because of extremists that give the religion a bad name. Furthermore, many nations with that have a significant muslim population (eg Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Tunisia) are having serious political conflicts and instability. This really gives the muslim world a very bad name to many non-muslims.

To start with the points u wrote are not cogent enough to doubt Islam survival. The above point hardly sell the threads' objective as whether conflicts in muslims distort or give muslims bad name, Islam itself remains pristin, have u noticed that with all the deliberate propaganda against Islam, the religion keeps gaining new adherents because the more they slander Islam the more people inquire about islam, like the conflicts u spoke of in places like libya, Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt were more of popular uprisings against dictators, tell me would people view Muslims bad because they rose to entrench democracy? You would agree with me this point is does not support ur hypothesis.

logicboy:
What makes this matter worse is the media in the West which hardly promotes islam in a good light- you're more likely to see pictures of islamic terrorists than those showing true islam. However, one can counter the bias of the Western media by saying that Saudis and some other Arabs have investments in American media, why dont they try to give islam a balanced view in the media?

True the media have slandered Islam more than the devil have ever done, but tell me why 100s of years of anti-islamic propaganda have failed to destroy Islam! The west bias against islam not new, right from the reign of Christiandom till date the lies goes on yet we see something that defy logical explanation, Islam still expand to places it has never been. Remember there was no single Muslim to be found in western europe during the reign of the church now we find Muslims are nearly swarming the whole of Europe that some interest now hire the likes of Anders breviek to stop the 'Islamization' of Europe. You would agree this proves that Islam rather than declining is ascending to the very peak of relevance. You would agree again that your point hardly proves that Islam is anywhere near death!
logicboy:
Considering local issues, we have seen some muslim leaders in Nigeria condemn the activities of Boko Haram but dont you think that if the governors fail in the end to stop Boko Haram, it will have bad consequences for the religion and northern states in Nigeria?

You simply don't know Islamic history that is why u make statements like these, have ever heard of the khawarjies? They in fact spent great energy killing muslims, yet in the long run it fizzled out! So also BH will fizzle out, even if BH does not end, it can in no way kill all the Muslim in northern Nigeria neither will their ideology be accepted by the vast majority of Muslims, hence despite BH remains a big concern to most muslims it can not bring an end to Islam in northern Nigeria

logicboy:
Also concerning local issues, don't you feel that by having a separate section for only Islam, the moderators are making non-muslims feel that islam is a bit intolerant?

Well, any non - muslim who feel such might be dishonest or simply naïve, as why don't such feelings extend to sections like tribalism where tribal bigots go to gloat over their tribes' supposed superiority or I better pass u thoughts? The fact that non - muslim come regularly to the Islamic section of NL clearly shows we muslims tolerate other faiths.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 7:13pm On Apr 19, 2012
vedaxcool:

To start with the points u wrote are not cogent enough to doubt Islam survival. The above point hardly sell the threads' objective as whether conflicts in muslims distort or give muslims bad name, Islam itself remains pristin, have u noticed that with all the deliberate propaganda against Islam, the religion keeps gaining new adherents because the more they slander Islam the more people inquire about islam, like the conflicts u spoke of in places like libya, Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt were more of popular uprisings against dictators, tell me would people view Muslims bad because they rose to entrench democracy? You would agree with me this point is does not support ur hypothesis.



True the media have slandered Islam more than the devil have ever done, but tell me why 100s of years of anti-islamic propaganda have failed to destroy Islam! The west bias against islam not new, right from the reign of Christiandom till date the lies goes on yet we see something that defy logical explanation, Islam still expand to places it has never been. Remember there was no single Muslim to be found in western europe during the reign of the church now we find Muslims are nearly swarming the whole of Europe that some interest now hire the likes of Anders breviek to stop the 'Islamization' of Europe. You would agree this proves that Islam rather than declining is ascending to the very peak of relevance. You would agree again that your point hardly proves that Islam is anywhere near death!


You simply don't know Islamic history that is why u make statements like these, have ever heard of the khawarjies? They in fact spent great energy killing muslims, yet in the long run it fizzled out! So also BH will fizzle out, even if BH does not end, it can in no way kill all the Muslim in northern Nigeria neither will their ideology be accepted by the vast majority of Muslims, hence despite BH remains a big concern to most muslims it can not bring an end to Islam in northern Nigeria



Well, any non - muslim who feel such might be dishonest or simply naïve, as why don't such feelings extend to sections like tribalism where tribal bigots go to gloat over their tribes' supposed superiority or I better pass u thoughts? The fact that non - muslim come regularly to the Islamic section of NL clearly shows we muslims tolerate other faiths.


Thanks for your detailed answer. There are some of your statements I agee with, some I dont.


1) The points about political instability in some Islamic countries arise from many arguments on the internet that Islam always leads to loss of human rights, dictatorships and economic problems.I am not saying that the argument is true. The thing is that some non-muslim people (who disagree) point to these countries as evidence for such argument. That's why I asked to get muslims' views on this issue.


2) The point about there being a separate section on niaraland comes from my own perspective and some others comments on the religion section. Why should Islam get special treatment? Doesnt it show Islam as an aggressive religion that pushes for its own separate agenda over other religions?

Salaam- I am just asking these questions as an atheist to get muslims' point of view.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Kay17: 7:30pm On Apr 19, 2012
tbaba1234:

1. What Apostasy law? How many countries have Islamic laws? The apostasy law is only applicable to people who Proselytize their new faith in an Islamic state. Most muslim countries have secular laws not Islamic laws.... We see that these countries as they gain their 'freedoms' vote for islamic government.

Tunisia voted for Al-nadha, an islamic party after years of secularism under ben ali
Egypt voted for the muslim brotherhood, and a salafist party after mubarak.
The same will happen in libya.

Given an option, muslims will vote for islam over any form of secular government. Our pride and honour was when we had Islam ruling us.

Trust me, if you know a little about the Quran... Atheism is not an option anyway. Do you ever hear of Muslim scholars leaving Islam?

2. The west and south east asia drive the global economies so whatever happens there affects the global economies.

You still haven't provided the islamic states that aren't monarchies

The ideals of democracy and human rights are not in the Quran, they are modern ideas which Islam is not up to date with.

I also don't understand why Muslims must lord over their neighbours, why are islamic rules forced on nonmuslims? Most have their own faiths and convictions. And these islamic parties will legislate apostacy laws and blasphemy laws. If Islam is descending into the political arena, can it withstand the scrutiny and criticism??

Also can an atheist serve in a political office, maybe president. Will homosexuality be decriminalized and recognized under islamic reign??
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by gidiMonsta(m): 8:25pm On Apr 19, 2012
Kay 17:

You still haven't provided the islamic states that aren't monarchies

The ideals of democracy and human rights are not in the Quran, they are modern ideas which Islam is not up to date with.

I also don't understand why Muslims must lord over their neighbours, why are islamic rules forced on nonmuslims? Most have their own faiths and convictions. And these islamic parties will legislate apostacy laws and blasphemy laws. If Islam is descending into the political arena, can it withstand the scrutiny and criticism??

Also can an atheist serve in a political office, maybe president. Will homosexuality be decriminalized and recognized under islamic reign??

You don't listen much do you? I believe someone on this thread already told u that no Muslim country practices Islamic governance so your question on monarchy is irrelevant.

Islam may not be an advocate for democracy but the Qur'an places a high responsibility on leadership and government, it extols values that if adhered to will guarantee a system more people oriented than imperialist democracy.

Before you foolishly conclude that ideals of human rights are not in the Qur'an, I'll advise u pick a copy to read so you can see the folly of your ignorance.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Kay17: 9:02pm On Apr 19, 2012
gidiMonsta:

You don't listen much do you? I believe someone on this thread already told u that no Muslim country practices Islamic governance so your question on monarchy is irrelevant.

Islam may not be an advocate for democracy but the Qur'an places a high responsibility on leadership and government, it extols values that if adhered to will guarantee a system more people oriented than imperialist democracy.

Before you foolishly conclude that ideals of human rights are not in the Qur'an, I'll advise u pick a copy to read so you can see the folly of your ignorance.
I wasn't relating to present day states only.

The Quran places value on govt and leadership?? Oops that accounts for its despots.

I don't see any human rights in the Quran.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by maclatunji: 9:17pm On Apr 19, 2012
@Kay17, The Prophet (SAW) ruled over much of Arabia at the time of his death and he was not a king, neither were his next four successors. So what are you yapping about?
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by vedaxcool(m): 9:44pm On Apr 19, 2012
logicboy:

Thanks for your detailed answer. There are some of your statements I agee with, some I dont.


1) The points about political instability in some Islamic countries arise from many arguments on the internet that Islam always leads to loss of human rights, dictatorships and economic problems.I am not saying that the argument is true. The thing is that some non-muslim people (who disagree) point to these countries as evidence for such argument. That's why I asked to get muslims' views on this issue.


2) The point about there being a separate section on niaraland comes from my own perspective and some others comments on the religion section. Why should Islam get special treatment? Doesnt it show Islam as an aggressive religion that pushes for its own separate agenda over other religions?

Salaam- I am just asking these questions as an atheist to get muslims' point of view.

I agree with your first point that people try to discredit Islam by always pointing to places where they see strife, but like I indicated the fact that people are actively casting aspersions on Islam has in no way effected the wide spreads appeal people have towards Islam. I think people tend to be dishonest, just take a look at NL, people method of discussion always defy logic, you would notice discussion always leave the central theme and turns on to completely negate what it was suppose to address and worst of all even when you refute people points of view with cogent points rather than admit the simple fact and see the light they invent more questions . . . look closely at how kay will prove this simple point, each time he is cornered he will introduce a new deviation making it an endless loop of . . .

On point 2, the decision to make an Islamic section was and is the decision of the administrators, whether muslims clamoured for it is totally irrelevant, the call was the that of the administrators of this webpage, and standard practice inn different place is that different sections are usually created for broad topics such as religion. Now does it show Islam is aggressive? I doubt that! if having your space is termed an aggression then South Sudan must a very aggressive bunch! and please every religion pushes its' agenda over others, I mean you would never see a christian say to muslims school me in Islam so that i can help you spread the word, I remember back in secondary school where I schooled was a secular school, yet some teachers tend to want to directly and overtly impose their religious customs on others. Now to claim that because Islam places in agenda over others because there is a specific section on NL for it is an over kill! when the decision was made to make Islam section NL and doubt whether Muslims where generally spoken to. To finish it, I think most people who make such remarks are the same people who cannot stand the sight of a muslim posting in the main section.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 9:52pm On Apr 19, 2012
vedaxcool:

I agree with your first point that people try to discredit Islam by always pointing to places where they see strife, but like I indicated the fact that people are actively casting aspersions on Islam has in no way effected the wide spreads appeal people have towards Islam. I think people tend to be dishonest, just take a look at NL, people method of discussion always defy logic, you would notice discussion always leave the central theme and turns on to completely negate what it was suppose to address and worst of all even when you refute people points of view with cogent points rather than admit the simple fact and see the light they invent more questions . . . look closely at how kay will prove this simple point, each time he is cornered he will introduce a new deviation making it an endless loop of . . .

On point 2, the decision to make an Islamic section was and is the decision, whether muslims calmoured for it is totally irrelevant, the call was the that of the administrators of this webpage, and standard practice inn different place is that different sections are usually created for broad topics such as religion. Now does it show Islam is aggressive? I doubt that! if having your space is termed an aggression then South Sudan must a very aggressive bunch! and please every religion pushes its' agenda over others, I mean you would never see a christian say to muslims school me in Islam so that i can help you spread the word, I remember back in secondary school where I schooled was a secular school, yet some teachers tend to want to directly and overtly impose their religious customs on others. Now to claim that because Islam places in agenda over others because there is a specific section on NL for it is an over kill! when the decision was made to make Islam section NL and doubt whether Muslims where generally spoken to. To finish it, I think most people who make such remarks are the same people who cannot stand the sight of a muslim posting in the main section.


Thank you for your answer.


However, I still disagree with the separate Islam section. I believe in equality for all- either everyone gets their own section or everybody uses one section. Do you really want me to believe that Islam should be treated specially? Equality is the key here. If there was a section only for christians and every other religion had to share one section, I would stillsay hat it isnt fair.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 9:55pm On Apr 19, 2012
gidiMonsta:

You don't listen much do you? I believe someone on this thread already told u that no Muslim country practices Islamic governance so your question on monarchy is irrelevant.

Islam may not be an advocate for democracy but the Qur'an places a high responsibility on leadership and government, it extols values that if adhered to will guarantee a system more people oriented than imperialist democracy.

Before you foolishly conclude that ideals of human rights are not in the Qur'an, I'll advise u pick a copy to read so you can see the folly of your ignorance.

Sorry, but the Koran has some difficulty with Human Rights. A muslim woman is not free to marry who she wants if the person is a non-muslim. It is not fair and it is clearly stated in the koran.

Also, the Koran permits polygamy.

Also, people have been punished for apostacy which is wrong.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by vedaxcool(m): 10:10pm On Apr 19, 2012
logicboy:


Thank you for your answer.


However, I still disagree with the separate Islam section. I believe in equality for all- either everyone gets their own section or everybody uses one section. Do you really want me to believe that Islam should be treated specially? Equality is the key here. If there was a section only for christians and every other religion had to share one section, I would stillsay hat it isnt fair.

really disagree all you want but direct your disagreement to the administrators not me, i am a visitor as well! nowhere did i say you should believe that Islam be treated specially on NL!
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 10:18pm On Apr 19, 2012
vedaxcool:

really disagree all you want but direct your disagreement to the administrators not me, i am a visitor as well! nowhere did i say you should believe that Islam be treated specially on NL!

Thanks for your answer
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by Maisuya1: 9:37am On Apr 20, 2012
logicboy:

Sorry, but the Koran has some difficulty with Human Rights. A muslim woman is not free to marry who she wants if the person is a non-muslim. It is not fair and it is clearly stated in the koran.

Also, the Koran permits polygamy.

Also, people have been punished for apostacy which is wrong.

strictly speaking on the quran where it stated about women not marrying non-muslim could you complete what it also says about men marrying non-muslim? thats strictly speeking about the quran as you said. but then, studying the hadith and ijma you will get a clearer picture of the reasons.

on the issue of rights show me any verse in the quran which you think contravenes rights? you of all people should know better than making blanket generalizations.

also on the issue of polygamy you would agree with me that monogamy as a way in its self is a recent phenomenon going by world history. Man has been polygamous throughout the ages. and this has been the case not because of the quran or the bible or religion, but because it is in mans nature (africans were also polygamous). and even today you would agree with me that men are more likely to keep mistresses and girlfriends after marriage than women are to keep lovers after marriage (am not saying its not possible). so instead of keeping these unlawfull mistresses and girlfriends whom you give no 'human right' (they dont inherit you, their children are considered bastards etc) Islam gave them rights by allowing you to bring at most four (even though islam encourages you to be with one if you cant be just to four), so they can inherit you, their children are legit, it is an obligation for you to provide for them, and the lists of their rights goes on and on.
Now from another perspective globally there are more women than men. and this is true for most countries in the world (with exception for countries like india for obvoius reasons). the implication of this is that, if everey man gets married to a woman there would still be a sizable population of women without partners, in essence they end up as 'public properties' (neither I nor you want our mothers sisters or daughters to be PPs), so the only plausable solution is for any willing and able man to take another wife not mistress. and these will go along way in eliminating the prostitution black market. Otherwise you can profer a better solution.
Re: Can Islam Really Survive Another 20 Years? by logicboy: 10:18am On Apr 20, 2012
Mai-suya:


strictly speaking on the quran where it stated about women not marrying non-muslim could you complete what it also says about men marrying non-muslim? thats strictly speeking about the quran as you said. but then, studying the hadith and ijma you will get a clearer picture of the reasons.

on the issue of rights show me any verse in the quran which you think contravenes rights? you of all people should know better than making blanket generalizations.

also on the issue of polygamy you would agree with me that monogamy as a way in its self is a recent phenomenon going by world history. Man has been polygamous throughout the ages. and this has been the case not because of the quran or the bible or religion, but because it is in mans nature (africans were also polygamous). and even today you would agree with me that men are more likely to keep mistresses and girlfriends after marriage than women are to keep lovers after marriage (am not saying its not possible). so instead of keeping these unlawfull mistresses and girlfriends whom you give no 'human right' (they dont inherit you, their children are considered bastards etc) Islam gave them rights by allowing you to bring at most four (even though islam encourages you to be with one if you cant be just to four), so they can inherit you, their children are legit, it is an obligation for you to provide for them, and the lists of their rights goes on and on.
Now from another perspective globally there are more women than men. and this is true for most countries in the world (with exception for countries like india for obvoius reasons). the implication of this is that, if everey man gets married to a woman there would still be a sizable population of women without partners, in essence they end up as 'public properties' (neither I nor you want our mothers sisters or daughters to be PPs), so the only plausable solution is for any willing and able man to take another wife not mistress. and these will go along way in eliminating the prostitution black market. Otherwise you can profer a better solution.


Muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslims. Muslim women are not. It's in the Koran. As a non-muslim, reading a hadith is extremely difficult for me.

The ratio of men to women is about 1;1.05. And so, your support of polygamy is meaningless. Not everyone wishes to get married as well. There is also the issue of homosexuals.

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